Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:02 AM - Re: Vapour lock? Why? (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk)
2. 03:29 AM - Re: Vapour lock? Why? (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
3. 04:14 AM - Re: Vapour lock? Why? (klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com)
4. 04:32 AM - Re: Vapour lock? Why? (William Daniell)
5. 05:43 AM - Re: Vapour lock? Why? (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
6. 05:58 AM - Re: Vapour lock? Why? (Peter Zutrauen)
7. 06:20 AM - Re: Vapour lock? Why? (Bob Harrison)
8. 07:09 AM - Re: Vapour lock? Why? (William Daniell)
9. 11:36 AM - Re: Re: Stabalator Flutter (Bud Yerly)
10. 12:07 PM - Re: Re: Working cabin heater (Bud Yerly)
11. 12:59 PM - Rudder (spcialeffects)
12. 01:23 PM - Re: Vapour lock? Why? (Bud Yerly)
13. 01:26 PM - Re: Rudder (Bud Yerly)
14. 01:50 PM - Re: Rudder (Richard Wheelwright)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Vapour lock? Why? |
On 31/07/2012 22:27, klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Snip ....
/.....//I was chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rotech in canada)//. He said
he learned how too small a fuel line and/or tortured routing can cause
"cavitation" at the pumps. So maybe your fuel filter(s), on the suction
side of the pump,are causing cavitation in the pump(s). Maybe due to the
size (restriction of flow) of the filter, even if they are clean./
/........//Snip/
Kevin, I think Rob Seaton may be on the money with this one.
A year or so back, I experienced a dead cut while flying a friend's 914
powered Europa on a hot day. Nifty application of fuel pump restored the
noise, but once safely back on the ground, I checked the filters (all
clean). This aircraft was fitted with Europa specified Purolator glass
shrouded filters that allow you to see the fuel flowing. At low RPM, the
filter appeared full, but as power was increased, the filter began to
fill with what I thought was air. My first action was to check the
pipework and security of connections - but everything seemed fine - it
was definitely not drawing in air from anywhere. I then concluded that I
had experienced vapour lock and left it at that.
Curiosity got the better of me and I started researching cavitation and
stumbled upon this very stilted, but interesting presentation on
Youtube. Take a look at the first minute from 00.20 - in particular, the
glass venturi. This was exactly what I saw in the Purolator filters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I
My conclusion is that the Purolator filter has the correct mesh size to
trap contaminants, but the filter capacity is too small and creates a
pressure drop in the fuel line.
Nigel
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Vapour lock? Why? |
Nigel=0Aanother problem with those filters is that sometimes they look clea
n but aren't because the contamination is translucent when wet with fuel; s
o, more restriction.-=0AYou're right, they are too small. quite high fuel
flow with a 914.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A F
rom: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>=0ATo: euro
pa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 10:01=0ASubject: Re
: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?=0A =0A=0A=0A=0AOn 31/07/2012 22:27, klinef
elter.kevin@gmail.com Snip .........I was chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rot
ech in canada). He said he learned how too small a fuel line and/or torture
d routing can cause "cavitation" at the pumps. So maybe your fuel filter(s)
, on the suction side of the pump,are causing cavitation in the pump(s). Ma
ybe due to the size (restriction of flow) of the filter, even if they are c
lean.=0A........Snip=0A=0AKevin, I think Rob Seaton may be on the money wit
h this one.- =0AA year or so back, I experienced a dead cut while flying
a friend's=0A 914 powered Europa on a hot day. Nifty application of fuel
pump=0A restored the noise, but once safely back on the ground, I check
ed=0A the filters (all clean). This aircraft was fitted with Europa=0A
specified Purolator glass shrouded filters that allow you to see the=0A
fuel flowing. At low RPM, the filter appeared full, but as power was=0A
increased, the filter began to fill with what I thought was air. My=0A
first action was to check the pipework and security of connections -=0A
but everything seemed fine - it was definitely not drawing in air=0A fr
om anywhere. I then concluded that I had experienced vapour lock=0A and
left it at that.=0A=0ACuriosity got the better of me and I started research
ing cavitation=0A and stumbled upon this very stilted, but interesting p
resentation on=0A Youtube. Take a look at the first minute from 00.20 -
in particular,=0A the glass venturi. This was exactly what I saw in the
Purolator=0A filters.=0A=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I
=0A=0AMy conclusion is that the Purolator filter has the correct mesh size
=0A to trap contaminants, but the filter capacity is too small and=0A
=======
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Vapour lock? Why? |
Nigel,
Thanks for the link... Fascinating video.
Kevin
On Oct 29, 2012, at 5:01 AM, "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham@m-t
ecque.co.uk> wrote:
>
> On 31/07/2012 22:27, klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Snip ....
> .....I was chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rotech in canada). He said he lea
rned how too small a fuel line and/or tortured routing can cause "cavitation
" at the pumps. So maybe your fuel filter(s), on the suction side of the pum
p,are causing cavitation in the pump(s). Maybe due to the size (restriction o
f flow) of the filter, even if they are clean.
> ........ Snip
>
> Kevin, I think Rob Seaton may be on the money with this one.
> A year or so back, I experienced a dead cut while flying a friend's 914 po
wered Europa on a hot day. Nifty application of fuel pump restored the noise
, but once safely back on the ground, I checked the filters (all clean). Thi
s aircraft was fitted with Europa specified Purolator glass shrouded filters
that allow you to see the fuel flowing. At low RPM, the filter appeared ful
l, but as power was increased, the filter began to fill with what I thought w
as air. My first action was to check the pipework and security of connection
s - but everything seemed fine - it was definitely not drawing in air from a
nywhere. I then concluded that I had experienced vapour lock and left it at t
hat.
>
> Curiosity got the better of me and I started researching cavitation and st
umbled upon this very stilted, but interesting presentation on Youtube. Take
a look at the first minute from 00.20 - in particular, the glass venturi. T
his was exactly what I saw in the Purolator filters.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I
>
> My conclusion is that the Purolator filter has the correct mesh size to tr
ap contaminants, but the filter capacity is too small and creates a pressure
drop in the fuel line.
>
> Nigel
Message 4
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Subject: | Vapour lock? Why? |
I plumbed those in - following the book - but I see they are probably not
the ideal.
So what's the most common solution?
Will
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM
SINGLETON
Sent: 29 October 2012 05:29
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
Nigel
another problem with those filters is that sometimes they look clean but
aren't because the contamination is translucent when wet with fuel; so, more
restriction.
You're right, they are too small. quite high fuel flow with a 914.
Graham
_____
From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 10:01
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
On 31/07/2012 22:27, klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com wrote:
Snip ....
.....I was chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rotech in canada). He said he
learned how too small a fuel line and/or tortured routing can cause
"cavitation" at the pumps. So maybe your fuel filter(s), on the suction side
of the pump,are causing cavitation in the pump(s). Maybe due to the size
(restriction of flow) of the filter, even if they are clean.
........ Snip
Kevin, I think Rob Seaton may be on the money with this one.
A year or so back, I experienced a dead cut while flying a friend's 914
powered Europa on a hot day. Nifty application of fuel pump restored the
noise, but once safely back on the ground, I checked the filters (all
clean). This aircraft was fitted with Europa specified Purolator glass
shrouded filters that allow you to see the fuel flowing. At low RPM, the
filter appeared full, but as power was increased, the filter began to fill
with what I thought was air. My first action was to check the pipework and
security of connections - but everything seemed fine - it was definitely not
drawing in air from anywhere. I then concluded that I had experienced vapour
lock and left it at that.
Curiosity got the better of me and I started researching cavitation and
stumbled upon this very stilted, but interesting presentation on Youtube.
Take a look at the first minute from 00.20 - in particular, the glass
venturi. This was exactly what I saw in the Purolator filters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I
My conclusion is that the Purolator filter has the correct mesh size to trap
contaminants, but the filter capacity is too small and creates a pressure
drop in the fuel line.
Nigel
http://www.matro===================
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Vapour lock? Why? |
Best one is an Andair, not cheap though. The old Mini gascolator is too sma
ll for a 914, GAS375 would be the one=0A=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A______________
__________________=0A From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 11:31=0A
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?=0A =0A=0AI plumbed those in
=93 following the book =93 but I see they are probably not the ide
al.=0ASo what=99s the most common solution?=0AWill=0A=C2-=0AFrom:ow
ner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matro
nics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON=0ASent: 29 October 2012 05:29=0ATo:
europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?=0A
=C2-=0ANigel=0Aanother problem with those filters is that sometimes they
look clean but aren't because the contamination is translucent when wet wit
h fuel; so, more restriction.=C2-=0AYou're right, they are too small. qui
te high fuel flow with a 914.=0AGraham=0A=C2-=0A=0A______________________
__________=0A=0AFrom:"nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham@m-tecque.c
o.uk>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 10:
01=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0AOn 31/
07/2012 22:27, klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com wrote:=0A--> Europa-List message
posted by: klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com=0A>=C2-=0A>Snip ....=0A.....I was
chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rotech in canada). He said he learned how to
o small a fuel line and/or tortured routing can cause "cavitation" at the p
umps. So maybe your fuel filter(s), on the suction side of the pump,are cau
sing cavitation in the pump(s). Maybe due to the size (restriction of flow)
of the filter, even if they are clean.=0A........ Snip=0A=0AKevin, I think
Rob Seaton may be on the money with this one.=C2- =0AA year or so back,
I experienced a dead cut while flying a friend's 914 powered Europa on a ho
t day. Nifty application of fuel pump restored the noise, but once safely b
ack on the ground, I checked the filters (all clean). This aircraft was fit
ted with Europa specified Purolator glass shrouded filters that allow you t
o see the fuel flowing. At low RPM, the filter appeared full, but as power
was increased, the filter began to fill with what I thought was air. My fir
st action was to check the pipework and security of connections - but every
thing seemed fine - it was definitely not drawing in air from anywhere. I t
hen concluded that I had experienced vapour lock and left it at that.=0A=0A
Curiosity got the better of me and I started researching cavitation and stu
mbled upon this very stilted, but interesting presentation on Youtube. Take
a look at the first minute from 00.20 - in particular, the glass venturi.
This was exactly what I saw in the Purolator filters.=0A=0Ahttp://www.youtu
be.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I=0A=0AMy conclusion is that the Purolator filte
r has the correct mesh size to trap contaminants, but the filter capacity i
s too small and creates a pressure drop in the fuel line.=0A=0ANigel=0Ahttp
://www.matro=====================0A
=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Euro
pa-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contributi
==================
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Vapour lock? Why? |
a second alternative: http://www.stevesaircraft.com/gascolator.php
not cheap either tho.
Cheers,
Pete
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:40 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON <
grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Best one is an Andair, not cheap though. The old Mini gascolator is too
> small for a 914, GAS375 would be the one
>
> Graham
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, 29 October 2012, 11:31
> *Subject:* RE: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
>
> I plumbed those in ' following the book ' but I see they are probably
not
> the ideal.
> So what=92s the most common solution?
> Will
>
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *GRAHAM SINGLETON
> *Sent:* 29 October 2012 05:29
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
>
> Nigel
> another problem with those filters is that sometimes they look clean but
> aren't because the contamination is translucent when wet with fuel; so,
> more restriction.
> You're right, they are too small. quite high fuel flow with a 914.
> Graham
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, 29 October 2012, 10:01
> *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
>
>
> On 31/07/2012 22:27, klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> Snip ....
>
> *.....I was chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rotech in canada). He said he
> learned how too small a fuel line and/or tortured routing can cause
> "cavitation" at the pumps. So maybe your fuel filter(s), on the suction
> side of the pump,are causing cavitation in the pump(s). Maybe due to the
> size (restriction of flow) of the filter, even if they are clean.*
> *........ Snip*
>
> Kevin, I think Rob Seaton may be on the money with this one.
> A year or so back, I experienced a dead cut while flying a friend's 914
> powered Europa on a hot day. Nifty application of fuel pump restored the
> noise, but once safely back on the ground, I checked the filters (all
> clean). This aircraft was fitted with Europa specified Purolator glass
> shrouded filters that allow you to see the fuel flowing. At low RPM, the
> filter appeared full, but as power was increased, the filter began to fil
l
> with what I thought was air. My first action was to check the pipework an
d
> security of connections - but everything seemed fine - it was definitely
> not drawing in air from anywhere. I then concluded that I had experienced
> vapour lock and left it at that.
>
> Curiosity got the better of me and I started researching cavitation and
> stumbled upon this very stilted, but interesting presentation on Youtube.
> Take a look at the first minute from 00.20 - in particular, the glass
> venturi. This was exactly what I saw in the Purolator filters.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I
>
> My conclusion is that the Purolator filter has the correct mesh size to
> trap contaminants, but the filter capacity is too small and creates a
> pressure drop in the fuel line.
>
> Nigel
>
> *http://www.matro==================
==*
>
> * *
>
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-L="nofollow" target="_blan
k" href="http://www.matronics.com/contributi=
> *
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Vapour lock? Why? |
I use two Mini Andair Gascolators one on each fuel line for my 914 and
one was satisfactory when I had the early gas guzzling Jabiru 3300 and
was the butt of all fuel dispensing pump sites.
Regards to all.
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM
SINGLETON
Sent: 29 October 2012 12:40
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
Best one is an Andair, not cheap though. The old Mini gascolator is too
small for a 914, GAS375 would be the one
Graham
_____
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 11:31
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
I plumbed those in =93 following the book =93 but I see they
are probably not the ideal.
So what=99s the most common solution?
Will
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM
SINGLETON
Sent: 29 October 2012 05:29
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
Nigel
another problem with those filters is that sometimes they look clean but
aren't because the contamination is translucent when wet with fuel; so,
more restriction.
You're right, they are too small. quite high fuel flow with a 914.
Graham
_____
From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 10:01
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
On 31/07/2012 22:27, klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com wrote:
Snip ....
.....I was chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rotech in canada). He said he
learned how too small a fuel line and/or tortured routing can cause
"cavitation" at the pumps. So maybe your fuel filter(s), on the suction
side of the pump,are causing cavitation in the pump(s). Maybe due to the
size (restriction of flow) of the filter, even if they are clean.
........ Snip
Kevin, I think Rob Seaton may be on the money with this one.
A year or so back, I experienced a dead cut while flying a friend's 914
powered Europa on a hot day. Nifty application of fuel pump restored the
noise, but once safely back on the ground, I checked the filters (all
clean). This aircraft was fitted with Europa specified Purolator glass
shrouded filters that allow you to see the fuel flowing. At low RPM, the
filter appeared full, but as power was increased, the filter began to
fill with what I thought was air. My first action was to check the
pipework and security of connections - but everything seemed fine - it
was definitely not drawing in air from anywhere. I then concluded that I
had experienced vapour lock and left it at that.
Curiosity got the better of me and I started researching cavitation and
stumbled upon this very stilted, but interesting presentation on
Youtube. Take a look at the first minute from 00.20 - in particular, the
glass venturi. This was exactly what I saw in the Purolator filters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I
My conclusion is that the Purolator filter has the correct mesh size to
trap contaminants, but the filter capacity is too small and creates a
pressure drop in the fuel line.
Nigel
http://www.matro <http://www.matro/>
===================
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-L=
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> "nofollow"
target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contributi=
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
Message 8
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Subject: | Vapour lock? Why? |
Mmm yes thanks. It would seem to me that the two fuel lines offer an
opportunity to insert redundancy in the fuel filters.
Will
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Harrison
Sent: 29 October 2012 08:20
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
I use two Mini Andair Gascolators one on each fuel line for my 914 and
one was satisfactory when I had the early gas guzzling Jabiru 3300 and
was the butt of all fuel dispensing pump sites.
Regards to all.
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM
SINGLETON
Sent: 29 October 2012 12:40
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
Best one is an Andair, not cheap though. The old Mini gascolator is too
small for a 914, GAS375 would be the one
Graham
_____
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 11:31
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
I plumbed those in =93 following the book =93 but I see they
are probably not the ideal.
So what=99s the most common solution?
Will
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM
SINGLETON
Sent: 29 October 2012 05:29
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
Nigel
another problem with those filters is that sometimes they look clean but
aren't because the contamination is translucent when wet with fuel; so,
more restriction.
You're right, they are too small. quite high fuel flow with a 914.
Graham
_____
From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 10:01
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
On 31/07/2012 22:27, klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com wrote:
Snip ....
.....I was chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rotech in canada). He said he
learned how too small a fuel line and/or tortured routing can cause
"cavitation" at the pumps. So maybe your fuel filter(s), on the suction
side of the pump,are causing cavitation in the pump(s). Maybe due to the
size (restriction of flow) of the filter, even if they are clean.
........ Snip
Kevin, I think Rob Seaton may be on the money with this one.
A year or so back, I experienced a dead cut while flying a friend's 914
powered Europa on a hot day. Nifty application of fuel pump restored the
noise, but once safely back on the ground, I checked the filters (all
clean). This aircraft was fitted with Europa specified Purolator glass
shrouded filters that allow you to see the fuel flowing. At low RPM, the
filter appeared full, but as power was increased, the filter began to
fill with what I thought was air. My first action was to check the
pipework and security of connections - but everything seemed fine - it
was definitely not drawing in air from anywhere. I then concluded that I
had experienced vapour lock and left it at that.
Curiosity got the better of me and I started researching cavitation and
stumbled upon this very stilted, but interesting presentation on
Youtube. Take a look at the first minute from 00.20 - in particular, the
glass venturi. This was exactly what I saw in the Purolator filters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I
My conclusion is that the Purolator filter has the correct mesh size to
trap contaminants, but the filter capacity is too small and creates a
pressure drop in the fuel line.
Nigel
http://www.matro <http://www.matro/>
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Subject: | Re: Stabalator Flutter |
On Flutter,
We dumb engineers really enjoy collecting testing video.
The Comanche video and others were setups to determine failure modes.
For instance, if you forget to hook up the trim tab or you have
forgotten to check that the bushes are installed in the stab or trim
rod, or the bearing in your Comanche has failed and you didn't note it
on the trim tab preflight that it had 1/4 inch of play.
We just had a twin Cessna (conventional stabilizer and elevator) here in
Plant City that has severe cracking in its trim tab due to poor
maintenance. The owner and inspector did not notice or think it a
problem that the trim tab had play in it and upon investigation, the
bearing in the trim rod had disengaged from the socket and the trim tab
moved 1/4 inch on its own...
Any control surface can flutter so it is best to note how much play is
in the bearings, hinges, quick disconnects etc. in any aircraft that
flies above 120 KIAS.
Pay particular attention to those controls which are not balanced on a
wing, or tail (Rudders are normally not balanced if near vertical in non
aerobatic aircraft.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Carter<mailto:alancarteresq@onetel.net>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 11:35 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Stabalator Flutter
<alancarteresq@onetel.net<mailto:alancarteresq@onetel.net>>
Wow Bud, that,s pretty scary stuff, have a lot of hours on Twin Coms.
glad i knew nothing about flutter then, what happened to it in the
video.
Well i got the first bit right, slow down, but have not that brutal
tail-plane you mention, only have a foam one!, and yes i do have a hang
up on tail planes maybe its because i can,t see it.
There have been some excellent ideas posted on MOD 73 . how to
elimination play and wear in the Toque tube, and this question is just
an extension of that topic, so hoping for some airman-ship replies also.
Regards
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385727#385727<http://forums
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Subject: | Re: Working cabin heater |
Photo E-mail View slideshow
<https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&
resid=2161856909618AA7!282&type=5&authkey=!AGSy0jMk4aIkbhI>|
Download images
<https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=downl
oadphotos&resid=2161856909618AA7!282&type=5&authkey=!AGSy0jMk4aIkbh
I>
Jacques,
I have been building a similar cabin heater for about 6 years.
It is fine until about -10 C. The duct has to be quite well sealed and
since most of the heat comes from the oil cooler, if a thermostat is
installed one cannot expect it to heat as much. In my experience my oil
temps in winter run about 160F or 70C. The air out of the back side of
the cooler is normally just under 100F or about 35C. N12AY is pretty
tight and my air vents seal pretty well so little air rushes into the
cockpit through the inspection holes and center tunnel as I have it all
well sealed. Just the sun shine keeps me in winter clothes fairly
comfortable. If I close off the oil cooler with a plate over it, that
cuts the air flow too much.
Unfortunately, I am in Florida, so it rarely gets super cold here. The
the mono tends to be drafty through the tunnel and is asking too much
from my little heater (basically the same as the Europa Club mod).
<https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=2161856909618aa7&page=play&
resid=2161856909618AA7!283&parid=2161856909618AA7!282&type=1&authke
y=!AGSy0jMk4aIkbhI>
My only suggestion for a constant high temp source is to pull the
coolant from the engine using a similar hookup to the carb heat mod, and
use a small oil cooler (or a simple 3/16 inch copper tube coil and fan
in the cockpit to bring up the temp for bitter temps.) Where to put it
becomes a real problem.
I have not been a fan of pulling heat from a muff from the muffler or
exhaust system as it is a Carbon Monoxide problem so I will not
comment.
Sorry I can't help any more.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: ploucandco<mailto:jacques@platisource.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 7:01 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Working cabin heater
<jacques@platisource.com<mailto:jacques@platisource.com>>
Thanks Ian. I saw this one as well. The goal is to get +15C in the
cabin when the outside air is -20C.
Do you or someone else have positive experience that this system will
provide this +35C difference in temperature?
Sorry to be difficult but I read a few times that such heater will
work well when the engine is running hot. Mine is running cool in
winter.
Jacques
Read this topic online here:
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These photos will be available on SkyDrive for 30 days. To learn more
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Just thought i'd ask if anyone has a rudder core that is not needed and not started
for sale? Rather than repair mine id like to start again. I have vacuum bagged
mine and bent the flange that the hinges bond too. Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386227#386227
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Vapour lock? Why? |
Gents,
I have not had the opportunity to have cavitation or problems with fuel
vaporization on my or any of my 914 engine installations.
I have had problems with the pumps pulling air from gascolators in the
Europa. I do not install them for a number of reasons, primarily as the
tank is lower than the gascolator (so the gascolator doesn't trap water,
instead it only can trap large particles (which the tank screen should
do), act as a filter), and should the seal be just a bit loose or
broken, air is sucked into the fuel lines by the pump and in some cases
the pump can not self prime. I have also had loose filters, and other
things as below.
The main problems I have seen are:
The fuel fittings or selector valves which are too restrictive (less
than 1/4 inch ID for the fuel). Avoid items of cheap quality (normally
brass from China).
The Purolator fuel filters are assembled too loose and suck air by the
gasket when the pump is engaged.
Note that under high flow rates over 10 GPH the Purolators do cavitate
the fuel. Not so under normal operations.
The fuel filter is assembled backwards by the owner.
Gascolators installed of dubious quality/or maintained poorly, with
wrench marks and dented cans from excessive force used to install or
remove them. Once the seal is broken, one may not see a leak but prime
is lost, especially at low fuel tank levels.
Owner uses a unique fuel line installation which goes next to the
muffler, then over the top of the engine to the carb on a 912S without
any fire sleeve.
Kinked fuel lines in the central tunnel unnoticed during the build.
Auto filters using cheap paper which restrict fuel flow if wet. Test
Test Test non aviation filters.
Failure to install fire sleeve, instead they use thermosleeve which
holds radiated heat away but has no insulation.
Vaporization also is more common when the lines are routed so as to have
a bend forming a high spot in line, in a hot area of the engine
compartment. This is a problem in the tail dragger Europa as the
highest spot in the fuel system is the top of the engine, so a vapor
bubble from heat can form easily when attempting a hot start.
The 914 has a noticeable return flow and the 912S has an orifice that
allows modest flow and allows the vapor to bleed if the orifice is near
the carbs and not really low in the return line at the tank. The new
912 fuel manifold seems to work well mounted up on the cross over tube
in the trigear.
Fuel pumps normally take care of any heat problems in the fuel as cool
fuel flows quickly through the system. However if the engine is off,
fuel may not flow enough to cool the lines in a 912S that are installed
directly in contact with the top of the engine. The vapor then can
build up in the high spot on top of the hot engine. With the carb bowls
full of fuel, the cool fuel does not flow very fast past the orifice if
it installed very low. Hence the need that the orifice on the return is
high up to clear the vapor.
Some suggestions are:
If one is concerned about flow, two filters in parallel, properly
installed, could solve filter clogging where poor fuel quality is
common.
Install 3/8 lines to slow the flow, but this means less room in tight
spots and more connector step downs and more parts to buy.
Make sure you are assembling the fuel system in accordance with
acceptable methods and standards and or follow the Europa install manual
to the letter. After all, it works, but it is the minimum necessary to
do the job.
Failure to allow for sufficient cooling air in the cowl over the carbs
and fuel lines is a problem also, especially with the 912/912S. The 914
lines are at the rear and if clear of the exhaust and the fuel pump
delivers proper flow, all is well.
Stay away from ethanol laced gasoline as it vaporizes very well and
kills seals.
Be sure the fuel pump is of the proper size and type recommended as the
system is designed for that pump.
Hot start problems in the 914 can be irritating as the intake manifold
is quite warm after shutdown, as are the fuel lines and carbs. The
vapor in the carbs flows into the intake plenum and manifold and leaves
a super rich charge in the plenum which will delay start. Many of us
crank the engine with the fuel pump off or selector off until it hits,
then turn the pump/selector on to keep it running. At higher altitudes
and density altitude conditions, it is much worse.
This is not a cavitation problem but pure vaporization of fuel in the
intake of course.
Glad to confuse the issue.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Tech Support
----- Original Message -----
From: William Daniell<mailto:wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 10:08 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
Mmm yes thanks. It would seem to me that the two fuel lines offer an
opportunity to insert redundancy in the fuel filters.
Will
From:
owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-europa-list-server@ma
tronics.com> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of Bob Harrison
Sent: 29 October 2012 08:20
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
I use two Mini Andair Gascolators one on each fuel line for my 914 and
one was satisfactory when I had the early gas guzzling Jabiru 3300 and
was the butt of all fuel dispensing pump sites.
Regards to all.
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
From:
owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-europa-list-server@ma
tronics.com>
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]<mailto:[mailto:owner-euro
pa-list-server@matronics.com]> On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON
Sent: 29 October 2012 12:40
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
Best one is an Andair, not cheap though. The old Mini gascolator is
too small for a 914, GAS375 would be the one
Graham
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: William Daniell
<wdaniell.longport@gmail.com<mailto:wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 11:31
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
I plumbed those in =93 following the book =93 but I see
they are probably not the ideal.
So what=99s the most common solution?
Will
From:
owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-europa-list-server@ma
tronics.com>
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-europa-list-s
erver@matronics.com>] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON
Sent: 29 October 2012 05:29
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
Nigel
another problem with those filters is that sometimes they look clean
but aren't because the contamination is translucent when wet with fuel;
so, more restriction.
You're right, they are too small. quite high fuel flow with a 914.
Graham
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From:
"nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk<mailto:nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>"
<nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk<mailto:nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 10:01
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Vapour lock? Why?
On 31/07/2012 22:27,
klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com<mailto:klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com> wrote:
klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com<mailto:klinefelter.kevin@gmail.com>
Snip ....
.....I was chatting with Rob Seaton ( of Rotech in canada). He said he
learned how too small a fuel line and/or tortured routing can cause
"cavitation" at the pumps. So maybe your fuel filter(s), on the suction
side of the pump,are causing cavitation in the pump(s). Maybe due to the
size (restriction of flow) of the filter, even if they are clean.
........ Snip
Kevin, I think Rob Seaton may be on the money with this one.
A year or so back, I experienced a dead cut while flying a friend's
914 powered Europa on a hot day. Nifty application of fuel pump restored
the noise, but once safely back on the ground, I checked the filters
(all clean). This aircraft was fitted with Europa specified Purolator
glass shrouded filters that allow you to see the fuel flowing. At low
RPM, the filter appeared full, but as power was increased, the filter
began to fill with what I thought was air. My first action was to check
the pipework and security of connections - but everything seemed fine -
it was definitely not drawing in air from anywhere. I then concluded
that I had experienced vapour lock and left it at that.
Curiosity got the better of me and I started researching cavitation
and stumbled upon this very stilted, but interesting presentation on
Youtube. Take a look at the first minute from 00.20 - in particular, the
glass venturi. This was exactly what I saw in the Purolator filters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3gcvA87I<http://www.youtube.com/watch
?v=K_w3gcvA87I>
My conclusion is that the Purolator filter has the correct mesh size
to trap contaminants, but the filter capacity is too small and creates a
pressure drop in the fuel line.
Nigel
http://www.matro<http://www.matro/>=============
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Perhaps a few minutes with your cutoff wheel will correct your problem
with a couple of layers of glass and some straight edges. Cheaper and
frankly faster.
Please send a photo direct to me.
Bud Yerly
Tech Support
www.budyerly@msn.com
----- Original Message -----
From: spcialeffects<mailto:spcialeffects@aol.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 3:58 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Rudder
<spcialeffects@aol.com<mailto:spcialeffects@aol.com>>
Just thought i'd ask if anyone has a rudder core that is not needed
and not started for sale? Rather than repair mine id like to start
again. I have vacuum bagged mine and bent the flange that the hinges
bond too. Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386227#386227<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386227#386227>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
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Message 14
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I have a rudder ready laid up with the hinges attached. It has a cutout for
Grahams Rudder mod. But has the bottom corner missing. Can be fixed easily
. ( I used it to fix my original) Contact me off list if you are interested
=0A-=0A=0A=0A====================
=0A=0ARichard Wheelwright=0A===============
======0A=0AFrom: spcialeffects <spcialeffects@aol.com>=0ATo: euro
pa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 29 October 2012, 19:58=0ASubject: Eu
spcialeffects@aol.com>=0A=0AJust thought i'd ask if anyone has a rudder cor
e that is not needed and not started for sale? Rather than repair mine id l
ike to start again. I have vacuum bagged mine and bent the flange that the
hinges bond too. Thanks=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahtt
p://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=386227#386227=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
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