---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/20/12: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:34 AM - Re: Ultimate Vents (Remi Guerner) 2. 03:31 AM - Re: Re: Ultimate Vents (Frans Veldman) 3. 06:04 AM - GRT EIS Rotax probes for CLASSIC installation (Christoph Both) 4. 07:50 AM - Re: Glider Wing Build (Bud Yerly) 5. 09:11 AM - SV: GRT EIS Rotax probes for CLASSIC installation (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 6. 11:28 AM - Venting cabin (Gerry Holland) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:43 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Ultimate Vents From: "Remi Guerner" Hi Frans, Years ago I did some flight testing with the D panel partially open and found that air was blowing from the back fuselage to the cockpit whenever fresh air vents and heating flap were closed. With the vents open or heating on, there were no flow through the D panel opening. So you are right that the rear fuselage is a relatively high pressure area. In the monowheel air is clearly sucked by the wheel well through the flap/gear lever slot. This is probably why in my aircraft the air vents are very effective without any purpose built extraction device. Should an extraction device be necessary, I would try a hose from the D panel to an inverted scoop (or inverted Naca ??) at the bottom of the rear fuselage. Remi Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388389#388389 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:33 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Ultimate Vents Hi Remi, > So you are right that the rear fuselage is a > relatively high pressure area. I had a hose connected to the outlet of the D-panel, all the way to the sternpost. No air from the rear fuselage could get into the hose. The interesting thing is that the sternpost (actually the space between sternpost and rudder) is also a high pressure area. I'm very surprised about that, as the rudder is smaller than the sternpost, and air is streaming over the fin to the rudder and must effect a suction force on the gap between fin and rudder. At least we can conclude that the airflow remains firmly attached to the rear fuselage, which is a good thing as it helps recovering some pressure loss. > Should an extraction device be > necessary, I would try a hose from the D panel to an inverted scoop > (or inverted Naca ??) at the bottom of the rear fuselage. You can't invert Naca scoops, that won't work. But of course, some other kind of scoop would work. The challenge is however to find some "natural" outlet, as the gap between fin and rudder was supposed to be, so the expelling air would reduce some drag instead of creating more. Frans ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:32 AM PST US From: Christoph Both Subject: Europa-List: GRT EIS Rotax probes for CLASSIC installation Hello Europa builders: I am about to drill holes into the stainless steel CLASSIC exhaust headers to mount the EGT probes. Rotax912S manual says to locate the EGT probes 70m m or 2.75 inches from the exhaust port. Both back exhaust pointing stacks e nd up drilling the thicker, double side flange if I take this measurement. Is this OK? Front exhaust measures 70mm (2.75 inch) on the not- welded part . Is this OK or have CLASSIC engine installations chosen a different distan ce. I have a GRT EIS Model 4000 for Rotax 912. It came with a number of probes but no description of probes and where to mount them. EGT was no issue (see above). However, there is a set of what I assume CHT probes, one terminati ng at one end with a large ring terminal (3/8 inch) and one with a very sma ll ring terminal (1/8 inch). What are they for and where do I mont those? R otax installation manual specifies that 2 probes are to be connected to the hot water location locations provided but then on one page describe tappin g a M-5 (5mm) thread to "install" a probe measuring the CHT directly at the cylinder cooling fins as described. I would appreciate some quick clarification for those who have installed th is combination. Pictures appreciated. Thanks very much. Christoph Both #223 CLASSIC Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:03 AM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Glider Wing Build Ian, I have all the detail on this. I have built 4 MGs and even a Classic MG. Please note that it is fitting process and quite easy but requires (like all airplane building) to rig the wings and derig to get it right. Contact me off line and we will supply you with the appropriate info, tips and tricks. Regards Bud Yerly Europa Tech Support ----- Original Message ----- From: G-IANI To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 2:04 PM Subject: Europa-List: Glider Wing Build > This is an appeal for information from glider wing builders. Steve Leisch (Kit A208) has realised that there are 2 Tufnol bearings part number GAB03 that are not referenced in any of the build documents. I have checked with Karen at Europa and can confirm that GAB03s are diamond shaped Tufnol blocks with a hole in the middle (which is large enough for the airbrake push rod to pass through). Talking to Nev, I believe they are fixed on the root rib to act as an inboard bearing for the airbrake pushrod. The end of the pushrod enters the cabin and is attaches to the cables as per Fig 11 on Page 28a In the Glider manual, section 8-13 refers to cutting the air brake push rods (roughly) to length and fitting the bell crank end. There is no detail for cutting the holes through the ribs forward of the spar, finalising the length, attaching the inboard end fitting on the pushrod or the final connection to the cables. As no one at Europa has any further information I will try and collect as much as I can. I would be pleased to have have any notes, pictures or drawings you may have. When I have got this together I am happy to produce a Build manual supplement covering this area. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:38 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: SV: Europa-List: GRT EIS Rotax probes for CLASSIC installation Hello Christoph, I also have the GRT EIS 4000 (I am very pleased with its performance), 912ULS and XS firewall-forward kit from Europa. Please see the attached photo for where the aft EGT probes are mounted - no double side flange on the exhaust tubes, though, as far as I can see on the photo. My EIS set came with 4 ring terminals, of equal size. They are thermocouples to be pressed against the cylinder head metal, under a bolt to be screwed into the threaded holes provided for the standard Rotax CHT probes. The standard probes measures the temperatures inside the CH cavity, while the ring thermocouple will be exposed to cylinder cooling air. Therefore, you must cover the thermocouples and the adjacent CH metal well with a suitable compound (I used the red high-temp silicone from Loctite). There is a noticeable difference in measured temperature with and without this insulation against air cooling (I did not have it at first). See attached photo. I have not fitted any probes between cooling fins. Since I operate my engine with 50/50 glycol/water, I have also fitted a coolant temp probe into the hose between one of the cylinders and the small black "bottle" on top of the engine (as per Rotax recommendation). This probe is connected to one of the available input channels on the EIS. Why there is one large and one small thermocouple in your set I do not know - it should be 4 of equal size to fit under the head of suitable bolt. Suggest you ask GRT about this. As you probably know, you must not cut and splice the thermocouple cables - they must run from the instrument to the cylinders just as they came from GRT. Regards, Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:28:58 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Venting cabin From: Gerry Holland Hi. I've attached a photo of a venting device I fitted to my Tri-gear when I had it. Cant remember where the idea came from but it worked at extracting air from cabin. The very basic theory is that the shape (sort of airfoil) created lower pressure at the point of the series of holes and air was extracted. I never did any scientific analysis but it did seem to work in conjunction with the overhead eyeball vents fitted. It could have all been bunkum but I was happy! Gerry Gerry Holland gholland@content-stream.co.uk +44 (0)7808 402404 White Ox Mead Airstrip, Bath. 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