---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/25/12: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:09 AM - Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... (Matt Dralle) 1. 12:56 AM - Re: Electrics (Mark Burton) 2. 12:57 AM - Re: tri gear socket installation (Neville Eyre) 3. 06:42 AM - Re: tri gear socket installation (jglazener) 4. 07:32 AM - Re: Re: tri gear socket installation (Frans Veldman) 5. 07:49 AM - Re: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake (Gilles Thesee) 6. 08:43 AM - starboard door (Max Cointe) 7. 09:46 AM - SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 8. 09:53 AM - Handheld with external antenna (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 9. 10:06 AM - Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake (graeme bird) 10. 11:08 AM - Re: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake (David Watts) 11. 12:04 PM - Re: tri gear socket installation (K BURNS) 12. 12:07 PM - Re: tri gear socket installation (Bud Yerly) 13. 01:50 PM - Re: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake (Bud Yerly) 14. 01:58 PM - Re: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake (Frans Veldman) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:09:17 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Just A Few More Days To Make Your List Contribution... There is less than a week left in this year's List Fund Raiser and only a few short days to grab one of the great Contribution Gifts available this year. Support is still significantly lagging behind last year at this point but hopefully it will pick up here towards the end. Please remember that it is solely the Contributions of List members that keeps the Lists up and running as there is no commercialism or advertising on the Matronics Lists and Forums. The List Contribution web site is secure, fast, and easy and you can use a credit card, Paypal, or a personal check: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, drop a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I want to thank everyone that has already made a generous contribution to support the Lists! Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics EMail List and Forum Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:56:52 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Electrics From: "Mark Burton" Hello Peter, If you want to remake those white-wire connections, I can supply you (for free) with the correct crimp terminals (male & female) for that Rotax connector. Cheers, Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388904#388904 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:21 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: tri gear socket installation From: Neville Eyre Hi Donald, 1/2'' to 5/8'' gaps betwen the socket flange and the outer skin is not unus ual, I could never work out where the variation came from ? Most important is the ST 70 dimension. Then ensure the track is true with the legs clamped to an angle straight ed ge.Take measurements from tailplane torque tube ends to check this. Then ensure the horizontal datum of the angle aligns with the aircrafts hor izontal datum [ tailplane torque tube / wing spar bushes ]. Then check the lateral position from the aircrafts centre line [ also check the positive camber of the axle shafts and adjust [ worsen] the side to si de positioning to get the camber of the shafts nearer to each other. Forget about closing up the gap between the socket flanges and the fuselage skin. If you can close up the gap [ dropping the fuselage ] without buggering up any of the other parameters, well and good, otherwise go for it and use a t hick Redux pad in the gap. I have slipped in some plywood shims to bulk out the gap if it as large as you describe [ Redux is expensive, slivers of wo od will be free !] Other things I do different, the lay up of the socket to Rib 1, don't smear Redux on the socket and do the lay up with Ampreg, do a HOT Redux lay up i n 1 ply of Bid, 2'' onto each side of the Rib around the socket, peel ply a nd let cure. Then do the lay ups as per Manual. Do a hot Redux lay up on the outer face of the socket flange, peel ply etc, before doing the 2 Bid lay up on to the skin. Do the hot Redux lay ups ont o plastic sheet, wet out well, then slap it on like an elastoplast ! Ampreg doesn't stick too well to steel, and I don't like messing with two d ifferent epoxy systems going wet on wet ? Cheers, Nev. -----Original Message----- From: fireflier Sent: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 1:04 Subject: Europa-List: tri gear socket installation Hello Today I have been busy trial fitting my gear sockets. but I have got a prob lem nd wondered if anyone has experience this during building and how they have vercome it? After taking my time setting everything up as per the build manual I insert ed he gear legs and sockets into the holes clamping the axle's in position aga inst ngled bar with the axle center line on fuselage station 70 and the axle end 6.75' from the fuselage center line. With all this set up the socket flang es re approx 13 - 15 mm of the fuselage. I tried altering the fuselage underside to ground height but this made very ittle difference to the distance between socket flanges and the fuselage. I anaged to get the gap down to approx 5-8mm by reducing the fuselage undersi de o ground height to 395mm, this is very different to the 413mm quoted in the uild manual. I have attached some photos showing the gap between sockets and fuselage an d lso the position of the socket tubes within the baggage bays when inserted. Any comments or solutions to my problem would be much appreciated. Many thanks for taking the time in trying to help me find a solution to the roblems I'm experiencing. Kind regards onald -------- ireflier ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388820#388820 ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/port_axle_494.jpeg ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_axle_172.jpeg ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_socket_position_in_baggage_bay_ 539.jpeg ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_leg_socket_188.jpg ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/port_socket_position_in_baggage_bay_886.j pg ttp://forums.matronics.com//files/port_leg_socket_744.jpeg -======================== - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== -= - The Europa-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:25 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: tri gear socket installation From: "jglazener" Donald, Obviously, writing a post after Nev I have little to add on how to do things right. I did however have the same problem and in my case at least it turned out to be faulty measurements. There are quite a few variables and any one of them can knock the measurements off. My garage for instance has a drain in the middle and the floors slope very slightly towards that. I ended up having to grind the whole lot out again. The second time round the plates did fit against the skin. It really is worth checking everything 10 times to avoid that. See: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44767 Regards, -------- Jeroen http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388911#388911 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:52 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: tri gear socket installation On 11/25/2012 03:41 PM, jglazener wrote: > Obviously, writing a post after Nev I have little to add on how to do > things right. I did however have the same problem and in my case at > least it turned out to be faulty measurements. There are quite a few > variables and any one of them can knock the measurements off. My > garage for instance has a drain in the middle and the floors slope > very slightly towards that. To avoid this problem I welded two vertical bars to my build craddle with adjustable ends, so I could attach an artificial floor straight edge to it, and adjust everything independantly from the floor. This might be a solution for you if your floor is not perfectly even, or when you use a movable build craddle. Also make sure you end up with some degree of toe in on the axles, as the aircraft weight and roll friction will push the wheels outward a little. This prevents the problem that the tires wear prematurely on the inboard side. (After 200 hours, I still have even wear on the tires, never had to swap or reverse them). > It really is worth checking everything 10 times to avoid that. Yep, don't rush it. It is hard to readjust later on. Frans ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:32 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake graeme bird a crit : > > My 912ULS runs too cool at around 80deg C, as I have the cowl home I am wondering about blocking some of the radiator air intake off, maybe half of it and adding a couple of LED landing lights. Some sort of variable vent might be best though. Any suggestions? > Hi Graeme, http://contrails.free.fr/engine_aerodyn_radia_en.php http://contrails.free.fr/tunnel_en.php http://contrails.free.fr/engine_air_inlets.php Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:00 AM PST US From: "Max Cointe" Subject: Europa-List: starboard door Hi There all, To-day flight was cut short because the starboard (probably badly secured) departed from the ship 10 mn after takeoff. As we speak we don't know where it grounded but at least on quite on a no-man's land. Luckily no other damage and normal flying back and landing. Has anyone a complete starboard door available for sale (best would be with bronze window but we'll consider every proposal)? Max Cointe F-PMLH Europa_TriGear Kit #560 912ULS Airmaster 450 hours mcointe@free.fr ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:53 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: SV: Europa-List: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake Graeme, > My 912ULS runs too cool at around 80deg C, as I have the cowl home I am > wondering about blocking some of the radiator air intake off, maybe half of it > and adding a couple of LED landing lights. Some sort of variable vent might be > best though. Any suggestions? I have for several years flown in cold and hot weather with Van's variable shutter in front of approx. 50% of the radiator - see attached photo (the photo was taken before I installed an oil thermostat, so I have no plates in front of the oil cooler anymore). My 912ULS has 50/50 glycol/water, and I have not experienced problems even on hot airfields. However, to be on the safe side if flying much in hot summers, the shutter can be removed in 30 minutes for such seasonal flying, as this will allow more air to pass through the radiator. I purchased the shutter fra Van's Aircraft in the US, and the Bowden cable with accessories from Aircraft Spruce. Regards, Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:01 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Europa-List: Handheld with external antenna Hi Max, So sorry to read about your sudden cabriolet conversion. Did you have a chance to test the Icom handheld with the external antenna before this happened? If so, how did it work? I have now purchased the AAE VHF-5T antenna, which I plan to fix vertically to the fuselage inside skin on the right side behind the luggage bay bulkhead (I have the transponder antenna on the left side). Any particular recommendations (e.g. type of adhesive that you used). Regards, Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:21 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake From: "graeme bird" Thats very neat, thanks. I am wondering though if its really a problem to be running at 80deg. I tend to get higher temps initially at take off which would get rid of condensation etc. What happens when the engine is running warmer? I cant see any particular reference in the Rotax manual. I guess I could just tape over half of it with aluminium tape and see for now. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 45 hours g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388922#388922 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:11 AM PST US From: "David Watts" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake Graeme, I always run with at least 50% of the radiator sealed off with duct tape during the winter months down here in coldest (?) Kent on my monowheel/912S Dave Watts G-BXDY -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of graeme bird Sent: 25 November 2012 18:06 Subject: Europa-List: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake Thats very neat, thanks. I am wondering though if its really a problem to be running at 80deg. I tend to get higher temps initially at take off which would get rid of condensation etc. What happens when the engine is running warmer? I cant see any particular reference in the Rotax manual. I guess I could just tape over half of it with aluminium tape and see for now. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 45 hours g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388922#388922 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:06 PM PST US From: K BURNS Subject: Re: Europa-List: tri gear socket installation Donald,=0A-=0AThe build manual says:-=0A-"If necessary, to ensure that the plate of the gear leg socket is against the side of the fuselage,move t he=0Aaxles as required relative to the fuselage centreline keeping the axle centres on FS70".=0A-=0ABy moving the legs in 1/2 an inch or so equaly o n each side , you will close up the gap to a wedge shape, the manual also s ugests the socket flanges can be adjusted to fit the profile better.=0A- =0AMy fit was-close enougth-for an acceptable-redux filling, after ad justing-the fuselage holes slightly, but it does appears that your legs n eed to come together slightly-.=0A-=0A-=0AThere will be differences i n exact positioning of the sockets due variations -to the elogation requi red of the hole.=0A-=0ATwo-extra check measurement that I-found usefu ll-were from a second angle iron ran through the cockpit, sat on the door sills,pushed hard against the seat back, and dropped a plumbline from the inboard end to find a measurement from the spar face reference points :-=0A -Not e :- F S 70 is 2.25" aft of the forward face of the port spar=0A ------------------------- -- 1.00 aft of the forward face of the Starboard spar.=0A-=0AMark up the fuselage to get a measurement to transfer from your second angle iron / -plumb line, stick a spirit level on the angle Iron to check it is all pa rallel when setting up , and stand back an look at the job, making sure it is all square...=0A-=0AAlso, make sure your build cradle is squared off o n all corners, and can not move.=0A-=0AI set up a false floor with 3 laye rs of 3/4 ply,screwed down onto a pallet, with a timber beam accross to scr ew down and clamp on, you will end up spending days setting your measuremen ts unless everything is fastened down solid.=0A-=0AFinaly, you can do a d ry run by lifting the sockets and legs to a flush position ,an using the fi rst wedge shaped ply brace, hold the assembly in possition , then look at t he axle to see how far in it is sitting .=0A-=0AYou are trying to acheive aligned axles on FS 70, within the factory height specified (prop clearanc e)- 1/2 " or so different track width will make no significant difference , and is the factory recomended solution per the manual.=0A-=0ARegards =0A-=0AKevin=0A-=0A-=0A--=0A-=0A-=0A-=0A- =0A=0A_________ _______________________=0A From: fireflier =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 25 November 2012, 1:02=0ASubjec t: Europa-List: tri gear socket installation=0A =0A--> Europa-List message posted by: "fireflier" =0A=0AHello=0A=0AToday I have been busy trial fitting my gear sockets. but I have got a problem and wondered if anyone has experience this during building and how they have ov ercome it?=0A=0AAfter taking my time setting everything up as per the build manual I inserted the gear legs and sockets into the holes clamping the ax le's in position against angled bar with the axle center line on fuselage s tation 70 and the axle end 36.75' from the fuselage center line.- With al l this set up the socket flanges are approx 13 - 15 mm of the fuselage.=0A =0AI tried altering the fuselage underside to ground height but this made v ery little difference to the distance between socket flanges and the fusela ge.- I managed to get the gap down to approx 5-8mm by reducing the fusela ge underside to ground height to 395mm, this is very different to the 413mm quoted in the build manual.=0A=0AI have attached some photos showing the g ap between sockets and fuselage and also the position of the socket tubes w ithin the baggage bays when inserted.=0A=0AAny comments or solutions to my problem would be much appreciated.=0A=0AMany thanks for taking the time in trying to help me find a solution to the problems I'm experiencing.=0A=0AKi nd regards=0ADonald=0A=0A--------=0AFireflier=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388820#388 820=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/por t_axle_494.jpeg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_axle_172.jpe g=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_socket_position_in_baggage _bay_539.jpeg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_leg_socket_188 .jpg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/port_socket_position_in_baggage_b ay_886.jpg=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/port_leg_socket_744.jpeg=0A == ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:34 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: tri gear socket installation Nev, Donald, and others having tri gear concerns. Nev is right that the gap is really not that much of a concern especially at 5-8 mm. Organizing the project for efficiency of work comes with practice. The adjustment of the height of the fuselage to gear plane is one excellent way to make and adjustment to the fit. Just don't get too carried away, keep it close to the vertical distance in the book, which keeps the tail from being too low (nose gear higher means banging it more often) or too high which increases the camber angle making tire wear increase. I do bend the flanges a bit to allow me not to have to use as much Redux. Then just bond it in. Unlike Nev, I prefer to glue in the cleaned and dimpled metal sockets first and allow to cure, then put in Rib one the next day. If working alone, I put in both rib ones and let them partially cure, getting a long coffee break. If working with an assistant, we return when the ribs are firm and apply Aeropoxy or Ampreg flox to fill the gaps at the walls and smooth our Redux job a bit and apply more Redux to the leg face for a good bond and follow with the number one layups. If we are making good time, we lay on rib two with Redux then take a quick lunch break. We come back and while the Redux is a bit sticky but the rib is in firmly, we lay in more flox and glass it up. Then I allow it to cure with a bit of peel ply. That makes for a really long day though. However, if you're not on with your glassing MOJO, as the kids say, then I do rib two the next day. Of course you can gather that the one and two ribs are carefully cut to a tight fit and ready to install before hand. In a perfect world, the next day I do the trimming of the three and four ribs and install them. Your back will really need a break when done. Then take the gear out and glass in the bottom. If working alone, and if the top is on already, work gets slowed down a bit, so one rib a day is normally the rule. It is getting winter time, so heating of the project is necessary so it also tends to slow the project a bit. >From start to finish, one week to get the plane level and set, ribs in and legs on. That leaves the next week to get the wheels and brakes in and operating, and the plane rolling. Week three is needed for the wheel pants and such. Then you need a much deserved break but only a short one, as there is more to do. Getting the monowheel hole closed up and figure how to get a lower access hole installed and fuel lines cleaned up and accessories in that big old cockpit module hole. Regards, Bud Yerly ----- Original Message ----- From: Neville Eyre To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 3:57 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: tri gear socket installation Hi Donald, 1/2'' to 5/8'' gaps betwen the socket flange and the outer skin is not unusual, I could never work out where the variation came from ? Most important is the ST 70 dimension. Then ensure the track is true with the legs clamped to an angle straight edge.Take measurements from tailplane torque tube ends to check this. Then ensure the horizontal datum of the angle aligns with the aircrafts horizontal datum [ tailplane torque tube / wing spar bushes ]. Then check the lateral position from the aircrafts centre line [ also check the positive camber of the axle shafts and adjust [ worsen] the side to side positioning to get the camber of the shafts nearer to each other. Forget about closing up the gap between the socket flanges and the fuselage skin. If you can close up the gap [ dropping the fuselage ] without buggering up any of the other parameters, well and good, otherwise go for it and use a thick Redux pad in the gap. I have slipped in some plywood shims to bulk out the gap if it as large as you describe [ Redux is expensive, slivers of wood will be free !] Other things I do different, the lay up of the socket to Rib 1, don't smear Redux on the socket and do the lay up with Ampreg, do a HOT Redux lay up in 1 ply of Bid, 2'' onto each side of the Rib around the socket, peel ply and let cure. Then do the lay ups as per Manual. Do a hot Redux lay up on the outer face of the socket flange, peel ply etc, before doing the 2 Bid lay up on to the skin. Do the hot Redux lay ups onto plastic sheet, wet out well, then slap it on like an elastoplast ! Ampreg doesn't stick too well to steel, and I don't like messing with two different epoxy systems going wet on wet ? Cheers, Nev. -----Original Message----- From: fireflier To: europa-list Sent: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 1:04 Subject: Europa-List: tri gear socket installation > Hello Today I have been busy trial fitting my gear sockets. but I have got a problem and wondered if anyone has experience this during building and how they have overcome it? After taking my time setting everything up as per the build manual I inserted the gear legs and sockets into the holes clamping the axle's in position against angled bar with the axle center line on fuselage station 70 and the axle end 36.75' from the fuselage center line. With all this set up the socket flanges are approx 13 - 15 mm of the fuselage. I tried altering the fuselage underside to ground height but this made very little difference to the distance between socket flanges and the fuselage. I managed to get the gap down to approx 5-8mm by reducing the fuselage underside to ground height to 395mm, this is very different to the 413mm quoted in the build manual. I have attached some photos showing the gap between sockets and fuselage and also the position of the socket tubes within the baggage bays when inserted. Any comments or solutions to my problem would be much appreciated. Many thanks for taking the time in trying to help me find a solution to the problems I'm experiencing. Kind regards Donald -------- Fireflier Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388820#388820 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/port_axle_494.jpeg http://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_axle_172.jpeg http://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_socket_position_in_baggage_b ay_539.jpeg http://forums.matronics.com//files/starboard_leg_socket_188.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/port_socket_position_in_baggage_bay_88 6.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/port_leg_socket_744.jpeg _blank>www.aeroelectric.com /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List p://forums.matronics.com www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:34 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake Photo E-mail View slideshow | Download images According to Rotax there is not a technical minimum cylinder temp but I agree that we know that a warmer cylinder will be more efficient and the crankcase and gearbox will not harbor water in the case. The oil thermostat is one way to get up the oil temp. I have tried to make a simple rear flap to close up the back but you would not believe the pressure coming out of the rear of those radiators and the duct suction pulling on the other side of the flap. A moveable cowl flap will work, but then we're talking repaint of the cowl. So how do we get the glycol temp up? Tape over 1/3 of the glycol cooler is a start. Next is making a removable metal air dam in front of the glycol cooler, but that is not adjustable. So what is needed is an adjustable flap that can be set from the cockpit for those warmer winter days, spring and fall operations or high altitude cruise operations. Those adjustable slotted cooler shutters are a solution. Unless you need every bit of cooling air in the summer like I do here in Florida. Mark Ferkin of High wing LLC (Kitfox guy of fame) makes a shutter for the Rotax coolers. It doesn't work well for our setup but the concept works. Van's aircraft has the slotted flap as addressed above and used on other Northern Europa's but it does block the air needed for summer options. For oil cooling, I have installed the oil thermostat and it is very convenient and automatic so I'm waiting for it to fail... I really have only one idea for a moveable Europa style XS coolers with a two inch drop of the oil cooler. If you have one of my cockpit heaters be sure to leave a cutout for the heater or the cockpit heat gets shut off. See below: Regards, Bud Yerly Just a simple hinge setup with a flapper door to block the air coming out of the glycol cooler and pivoted near the center to reduce pull and hold forces. An oil cooler thermostat takes care of the oil temps. I really thought this would work but the force to hold the flap shut against the air outflow from the coolers (and draw of the cowl ramp) is considerable for a hinged flap at the leading edge. ----- Original Message ----- From: graeme bird To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 1:06 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake > Thats very neat, thanks. I am wondering though if its really a problem to be running at 80deg. I tend to get higher temps initially at take off which would get rid of condensation etc. What happens when the engine is running warmer? I cant see any particular reference in the Rotax manual. I guess I could just tape over half of it with aluminium tape and see for now. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 45 hours g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388922#388922 www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List These photos will be available on SkyDrive for 30 days. To learn more about SkyDrive, click here. To share high quality pictures with your friends and family using MSN Photo E-mail, join MSN. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:16 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: SV: Running too cool, considering blocking some of intake On 11/25/2012 07:06 PM, graeme bird wrote: > Thats very neat, thanks. I am wondering though if its really a > problem to be running at 80deg. There are a few reasons to keep the engine temperature higher: 1) Wear of the engine. Different parts of the engine expand at different rates when the engine gets warmer. Ideally, you have the engine running always at the same temperature, so all the parts wear in for exactly that specific temperature, and fit nicely together around that specific temperature, without too much friction of leakage. If the temperature changes, friction in some parts increases, and other parts become too sloppy. So, aim to keep the engine always wearing at the same temperature. For that reason, I always keep my engine at 115C and avoid wear at other temperatures. 80C could also if you manage to keep the engine running at that temperature during the summer, but then there are still a couple of other reasons to aim for a higher temperature: 2) Efficiency. The engine gets its energy from burning fuel, more exactly from producing heat, the temperature difference between the pressure of the air before and after the combustion. Ideally, there would be no losses. Unfortunately, we have to cool the engine, and by cooling we take precious energy away. The more we cool, the more we harm the efficiency. So to get the most bang for the buck, you will want to run the engine as hot as possible... without melting some parts. For the Rotax, this sweet point is close to 115C, which is a safe distance from 135C where the cylinder heads become soft and start to deform. 3) Condensation. Byproduct of combustion is water. Part of the combustion gasses including the water is escaping between the pistons and cylinder walls, anything below 100C will condensate this water. So. the condensation in the engine is not just something like the condensation in the fuel tank, but is actually produced at a high rate during your flight. (Don't underestimate the amount of these so called blow-by gasses; these gasses are actually responsible for transporting the oil back from the crankcase into the oil tank). If you run the engine at 80C you will collect a lot of water in the engine, and due to other substances in the fuel, the water will have a low pH and eat away the engine. If your engine only gets hot during take off, it is not sufficient to boil away all the water, and the water collected during the cruise will remain in the engine until the next take off, which might be a long time away, especially in the winter. So, it is best to keep the oil temp during the cruise above 100C to avoid collecting too much water. (You won't find the water at the bottom of the oil tank except in extreme cases, as the oil is formulated to keep a lot of water in suspension, but still this suspended water is corrosive and also worsens lubrication.) Frans ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.