Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:40 PM - Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? (G-ODTW)
2. 02:53 PM - Re: Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
3. 02:56 PM - Narco com FM Antenna filter (William Bliss)
4. 03:35 PM - Re: Narco com FM Antenna filter (Kevin Challis)
5. 08:21 PM - Re: Power loss and Inspecting comments (Bud Yerly)
6. 08:59 PM - Re: Power loss and Inspecting comments (Bud Yerly)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? |
Many thanks Nev (and everyone else who helped me out). Hopefully this article will
help others too. I hope you don't get too many people arguing with you. They
should know you're the Europa man! :D
--------
David Walters
01474 816817
dave@robotas.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391774#391774
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? |
SP106?
David=0Adon't forget,-=0A1 You need to be extremely accurate/consistent w
ith the resin/expancell ratio. Adding cabosil helps reduce pinholes and you
-=0Acan add 30% more expancell because it will spread easier.=0A=0A2 Get
it all on in one pass after an initial fill of any obvious hollows.=0A=0AGr
aham=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: G-ODTW <dave@robotas.co
.uk>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 7 January 2013, 22:39
=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFI
o.uk>=0A=0AMany thanks Nev (and everyone else who helped me out). Hopefully
this article will help others too. I hope you don't get too many people ar
guing with you. They should know you're the Europa man! :D=0A=0A--------=0A
David Walters=0A01474 816817=0Adave@robotas.com=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this top
ic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391774#3
========================
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Narco com FM Antenna filter |
Anyone help with this please
My Europa has a Narco 810 radio. The aerial cable routes via a Narco Com
FM Antenna Filter P/N 01530-0101
Can someone tell me what it is there for? Is it really needed?
Thanks
Will Bliss
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Narco com FM Antenna filter |
Will
I have a narco radio and was advised to fit a filter as on some frequencies it
blocks the GPS signal on both GPS's. The filter didn't make any difference.
On checking the Internet it's a known problem with the Narco I have. I can't remember
the model number.
Kevin Challis
On 7 Jan 2013, at 22:56, William Bliss <william@wbliss.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Anyone help with this please
>
> My Europa has a Narco 810 radio. The aerial cable routes via a Narco Com FM Antenna
Filter P/N 01530-0101
>
> Can someone tell me what it is there for? Is it really needed?
>
> Thanks
>
> Will Bliss
>
>
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Power loss and Inspecting comments |
Paul,
I make sure my drain for the cobra neck is a ways down the tube so the
first time I know my tank is full (other than my sight gauge) is fuel
runs out the vent / drain. This keeps the bugs out and the tube clean I
guess. I put the vent inboard just enough to miss my toes on an
overfill.
Airplanes are 20,000 compromises flying in close formation. So we all
have to put up with something. I have never had a problem with my vent
tube or drain. But then again I have a trigear and operate off of
asphalt. I too do not like fumes in the plane, so I make a metal elbows
for the filler, use lined fuel tube, (R9 style), put drains under the
tank bottom reinforcements, under my cockpit module where my pumps are,
under my seats where the filters are so I know if I have a leak
anywhere, and it all stays clean.
My wheel pants are quite low for speed and so I avoid soggy grass
strips.
Those who complain about upper vent vs lower vent are living with other
compromises. I just don't like them up there and because I tend to do a
bit of spirited flying, fuel comes out of my upper drains if installed
and fuel stains. They are tough to finish nice also, and the sight
gauge vent tends to change the fuel level at different speeds. They are
also tougher for the upholster to finish on the inside.
It is all about compromises and preferences.
Best Regards,
bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul McAllister<mailto:paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Power loss and Inspecting comments
Bud,
Thank you for your comments. Well thought out and valuable as always.
I was one of the earlier pioneers of the system to route my filling
vent and into the top of the cobra inlet. For the fuel tank / system
vent I did something different again.
I adopted the idea that Robin use and placed my vent in the backside
of the wing root. At the time I thought this was a great idea, but over
time perhaps its only a good idea, maybe not even that. The upside is
that it is unlikely to be plugged by mud, but there are a number of
downsides:
- Once in a great while, if I over fill the tank, it will run out of
this vent and out of the wing root over the flap. I inspect the flap
regularly to make sure fuel has not got inside the core and dissolved
the foam.
- If I over fill the tank the fumes make there way into the flap drive
slot during flight.
- I have to take the wing off to inspect the vent which doesn't happen
regularly. There is a slight risk on my area that an insect called a
"Mud Dauber" can get in there.
So, in conclusion, while these departures from the original design
seem like a good idea there are often hidden consequences.
Over the years I have become involved in inspecting and technical
counselling for the EAA, and the experience of this community has taught
me that fuel systems and modifications to them feature high on the list
of accident causes.
Cheers, Paul
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Bud Yerly
<budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@msn.com>> wrote:
Jim, and tibits for the rest of us:
After the tire failure and the subsequent off roading mud and dirt
experience while cross country, I commend you for your pursuit of the
problem which cost you much time, and money. You knew you had a mud
plugged vent, but an experienced guy like you missed the kinked vent
line cause. So what's a normal guy to do?
I had to ponder that we (really me), are always quick to assume an
engine related problem is causing the power loss. You told me about
finding the kink but I still assumed that you had a carb problem. You
cleared the clogged vent, but who would have thought about the rest of
the vent system and a possible kinked line when the plane has been
flying for years. I am anal about fuel system install and operation,
but once installed, I rarely look beyond making sure there is not
chaffing or leaks.
Added for all of us:
Recently I just finished an extended annual and another fuel tank
replacement / annual in a couple aircraft that I helped customers build
back in 2002 and 2004. Interesting to note that on both aircraft, that
they were past the 5 year hose replacement timeframe (we all dread
that). In both aircraft I found that the vent line was kinked or
compromised. In one of the aircraft when the upholsterer forced the
fabric around the fuel cover he had forced the fuel cover over one of
the polyurethane vent lines and over time the cover pushed on it nearly
flat so it barely vented properly, and on the other, the vent line was
perfect looking, but the hose was horribly brittle because the vent tube
was made from clear Tygon tubing. Tygon is supposed to be completely
impervious to fuel related problems. Duh, maybe not...
In my old Europa Operators Manual there was the requirement to pull
the fuel bosses off and flush the tank annually, which is quite tough,
but never to check our vent system, and in the new ops manual, it only
indicates to check and inspect for leaks. The 5 year recommendation for
changing hoses is still there, but not the vent lines. Vent lines never
get checked.
As far as I know, you are the first with an underside vent that ever
got plugged, however, you are the only mono I know of with the vent on
the bottom and operate off of grass a lot. In the trigear the vent on
the bottom is always clean, but your point of the oil overflow on the
right side of the cowl exit and a centrally located vent will be a
potential problem for oil, grime and dirt. I'll have to admit I will
make sure my annual checklist is changed to check the vents.
I prefer not to vent out of the top because with the motor glider in
turns when trying to soar, the fuel sprays out of the vent in right
turns. It also will vent fuel out if overfilled on a hot day in Florida
and let set in the sun (especially a mono), which of course can ruining
the paint.
Inspecting an aircraft is not an exact science. Manufacturers and
regulating agencies give only vague guidance. We are the manufacturer
as the builder, so we set the guidelines for inspections of our
aircraft, and if the kit manufacturer gives guidance, we the
manufacturer of the aircraft should be more specific, not less to
include info on our added systems, changes, modifications, and
additional wear areas or time change items due to all the above. I'm in
the US, and have my A&P use the FAA FAR 43 Appendix D as well as the
engine 100 hour checklist and I insist on him using the Kit
Manufacturers guidelines such as the Appendix E of the build manual and
Section 8 of the Ops manual when inspecting an experimental aircraft.
Now, I have been accused of doing a complete rebuild instead of an
annual inspection, but I am anal so that is my excuse, but on an
experimental aircraft (especially one I didn't help build or maintain) I
have found that there are many non standard items, routing conflicts
between wiring, fuel lines, brake lines and control cables, as well as
poor installation of equipment and structural construction mistakes that
the builder and final FAA inspector missed on the initial Airworthiness
Inspection. The FAA actually requires us, as US Experimental Aircraft
Manufacturers, to have established maintenance and operations
procedures.
I am attaching my personal annual inspection checklist out in the
open to show what we the builder can do to improve the inspections on
our aircraft. I only just added an item to inspect the fuel vents since
you called me about the problem weeks ago. I developed this checklist
long ago, before becoming a Europa owner and just tailored it to include
items in the Europa Section 8 inspection, the FAA and LAA recommended
guidelines etc. I am preparing to submit some of this info in a
condensed fashion in an updated Tech Support section of Europa's Website
as well as some other notes we all should know when maintaining the
Europa. Now this is my personal checklist, not for general
dissemination as a Europa Directive, but provided for others to see that
an annual inspection is not a walk around. But then again, it is not an
IRAN (Inspect and Repair as Necessary) like the military does by
completely disassembling every panel, inside and out, instruments,
wings, engine, etc. and inspect, refurbish, service and repair all the
above, it is however, more than a quick check for wrinkles in the skin,
change the oil and sign it off.
Great job of troubleshooting and thanks for the report Jim. Your
findings and my recent observations have changed my annual checklist for
sure...
Regards,
Bud Yerly
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Power loss and Inspecting comments |
Graham,
Cardinal rule of fueling....Do not fuel from a can resting in a vehicle.
Ever. Do not fill the jerry can inside a vehicle.
2nd rule. Never transport fuel from a vehicle by hand and pour directly
to another vehicle.
3rd rule. When fuelling a vehicle, airplane, or transferring fuel from
one can to another, set the jerry can on the ground, ground the
vehicle/aircraft (aircraft sit on rubber and the static electricity is
on the outside of the plane just like a container), ground yourself to
the can and the plane by setting one had on the grounded can and the
other on or near the fuel inlet lip. This depletes any outer static
charge on you, the cans or what you are fuelling. Static electricity
resides on the outside of a vessel not inside it, so if you connect a
ground, the ground must have a method of transferring from the skin to
the ground. I use a brass stud from the skin (the firewall will do but
a ground jack on the skin is best) to the earth. The ground made from
the earth to the tailpipe is a good ground to the aircraft electrical
system and will only work if there is a through stud to collect the
charge on the skin to the aircraft electrical system.
Also don't fuel if an electrical storm is within 5 (some agencies
require 10) miles of the fuelling point.
It is interesting to note many pilots put a pad around their fuel filler
made of rubber with static cling so as to protect their paint finish.
Too bad sparks fly when the pad is used. FBOs here in the States now
use anti-static pads around the fuel filler neck to prevent scratches.
Just recently, US regulations require the fuel truck to the plane is
required to be connected to prevent static discharge as the fuel truck
is running and powered and is the source of the possible electrical
charge, and by connecting both together, the charge is now neutral
between the two. The fueling person is grounded to the hose and becomes
neutrally charged also, but many agencies still require a ground from
the truck to the plane and to the earth. That makes more sense to me.
So I believe the wound was self inflicted. The same type accident has
happened many times when filling jerry cans. The spark jumps as the
spigot of one can approaches the other. I did a how to fuel an aircraft
from jerry cans brief (actually long and boring) at Rough River a few
years ago based on my experience and the written documentation from the
State of Alaska Department of Transportation. It seems many bush pilots
were burning up their aircraft in the dry Alaskan bush (it is a desert
up there). These guidelines for fuelling cut the fuelling accidents to
nil. I have been using these techniques since the 70's without incident
and I figure if it isn't broke, why change.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
----- Original Message -----
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON<mailto:grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Power loss and Inspecting comments
Paul, Jim & Bud
I still think aluminum is the best advice for the breather and it
needs to be grounded, fuel droplets rushing up the tygon during fueling
can act like a Van de Graaf static generator. I'm pretty sure that was
the cause of the fire my German friends had at Luebek .
They were refueling after a 2 hour flight, hot dry day. Standard
breather system, vapour coming out of the breather, a foot or so from
the filler,
(this was a Classic) metal Jerry can sitting in the car for hours.
Holding the metal funnel waiting for the last bit of fuel to drain in.
Quiet "POP!" and flames in the funnel. Burning fuel was split on the top
of the fuselage and over the tailplane as Jens threw the burning
funnel away. His arm got burnt too.
Graham
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
To: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, 6 January 2013, 5:09
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Power loss and Inspecting comments
Bud,
Thank you for your comments. Well thought out and valuable as always.
I was one of the earlier pioneers of the system to route my filling
vent and into the top of the cobra inlet. For the fuel tank / system
vent I did something different again.
I adopted the idea that Robin use and placed my vent in the backside
of the wing root. At the time I thought this was a great idea, but over
time perhaps its only a good idea, maybe not even that. The upside is
that it is unlikely to be plugged by mud, but there are a number of
downsides:
- Once in a great while, if I over fill the tank, it will run out of
this vent and out of the wing root over the flap. I inspect the flap
regularly to make sure fuel has not got inside the core and dissolved
the foam.
- If I over fill the tank the fumes make there way into the flap drive
slot during flight.
- I have to take the wing off to inspect the vent which doesn't happen
regularly. There is a slight risk on my area that an insect called a
"Mud Dauber" can get in there.
So, in conclusion, while these departures from the original design
seem like a good idea there are often hidden consequences.
Over the years I have become involved in inspecting and technical
counselling for the EAA, and the experience of this community has taught
me that fuel systems and modifications to them feature high on the list
of accident causes.
Cheers, Paul
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Bud Yerly
<budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@msn.com>> wrote:
Jim, and tibits for the rest of us:
After the tire failure and the subsequent off roading mud and dirt
experience while cross country, I commend you for your pursuit of the
problem which cost you much time, and money. You knew you had a mud
plugged vent, but an experienced guy like you missed the kinked vent
line cause. So what's a normal guy to do?
I had to ponder that we (really me), are always quick to assume an
engine related problem is causing the power loss. You told me about
finding the kink but I still assumed that you had a carb problem. You
cleared the clogged vent, but who would have thought about the rest of
the vent system and a possible kinked line when the plane has been
flying for years. I am anal about fuel system install and operation,
but once installed, I rarely look beyond making sure there is not
chaffing or leaks.
Added for all of us:
Recently I just finished an extended annual and another fuel tank
replacement / annual in a couple aircraft that I helped customers build
back in 2002 and 2004. Interesting to note that on both aircraft, that
they were past the 5 year hose replacement timeframe (we all dread
that). In both aircraft I found that the vent line was kinked or
compromised. In one of the aircraft when the upholsterer forced the
fabric around the fuel cover he had forced the fuel cover over one of
the polyurethane vent lines and over time the cover pushed on it nearly
flat so it barely vented properly, and on the other, the vent line was
perfect looking, but the hose was horribly brittle because the vent tube
was made from clear Tygon tubing. Tygon is supposed to be completely
impervious to fuel related problems. Duh, maybe not...
In my old Europa Operators Manual there was the requirement to pull
the fuel bosses off and flush the tank annually, which is quite tough,
but never to check our vent system, and in the new ops manual, it only
indicates to check and inspect for leaks. The 5 year recommendation for
changing hoses is still there, but not the vent lines. Vent lines never
get checked.
As far as I know, you are the first with an underside vent that ever
got plugged, however, you are the only mono I know of with the vent on
the bottom and operate off of grass a lot. In the trigear the vent on
the bottom is always clean, but your point of the oil overflow on the
right side of the cowl exit and a centrally located vent will be a
potential problem for oil, grime and dirt. I'll have to admit I will
make sure my annual checklist is changed to check the vents.
I prefer not to vent out of the top because with the motor glider in
turns when trying to soar, the fuel sprays out of the vent in right
turns. It also will vent fuel out if overfilled on a hot day in Florida
and let set in the sun (especially a mono), which of course can ruining
the paint.
Inspecting an aircraft is not an exact science. Manufacturers and
regulating agencies give only vague guidance. We are the manufacturer
as the builder, so we set the guidelines for inspections of our
aircraft, and if the kit manufacturer gives guidance, we the
manufacturer of the aircraft should be more specific, not less to
include info on our added systems, changes, modifications, and
additional wear areas or time change items due to all the above. I'm in
the US, and have my A&P use the FAA FAR 43 Appendix D as well as the
engine 100 hour checklist and I insist on him using the Kit
Manufacturers guidelines such as the Appendix E of the build manual and
Section 8 of the Ops manual when inspecting an experimental aircraft.
Now, I have been accused of doing a complete rebuild instead of an
annual inspection, but I am anal so that is my excuse, but on an
experimental aircraft (especially one I didn't help build or maintain) I
have found that there are many non standard items, routing conflicts
between wiring, fuel lines, brake lines and control cables, as well as
poor installation of equipment and structural construction mistakes that
the builder and final FAA inspector missed on the initial Airworthiness
Inspection. The FAA actually requires us, as US Experimental Aircraft
Manufacturers, to have established maintenance and operations
procedures.
I am attaching my personal annual inspection checklist out in the
open to show what we the builder can do to improve the inspections on
our aircraft. I only just added an item to inspect the fuel vents since
you called me about the problem weeks ago. I developed this checklist
long ago, before becoming a Europa owner and just tailored it to include
items in the Europa Section 8 inspection, the FAA and LAA recommended
guidelines etc. I am preparing to submit some of this info in a
condensed fashion in an updated Tech Support section of Europa's Website
as well as some other notes we all should know when maintaining the
Europa. Now this is my personal checklist, not for general
dissemination as a Europa Directive, but provided for others to see that
an annual inspection is not a walk around. But then again, it is not an
IRAN (Inspect and Repair as Necessary) like the military does by
completely disassembling every panel, inside and out, instruments,
wings, engine, etc. and inspect, refurbish, service and repair all the
above, it is however, more than a quick check for wrinkles in the skin,
change the oil and sign it off.
Great job of troubleshooting and thanks for the report Jim. Your
findings and my recent observations have changed my annual checklist for
sure...
Regards,
Bud Yerly
httphttp://www.matronics.com/contribution===========
=
<http://forums.matronics.com/>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-L
ist<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|