---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/08/13: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:44 AM - Re: Power loss and Inspecting comments (Max Cointe) 2. 02:52 AM - Re: Power loss and Inspecting comments (Roland) 3. 02:59 PM - iPad Camara (Alan Carter) 4. 03:20 PM - Re: iPad Camara (John O'Connor) 5. 04:35 PM - Re: iPad Camara (Rob Housman) 6. 05:48 PM - Re: iPad Camara (Robert Borger) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:13 AM PST US From: "Max Cointe" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Power loss and Inspecting comments Hi there all ! Talking about compromise, what about drilling a hole in the plug of the filler as a vent (like the owner of Vega ULM located in our hangar has done on his wings). With the sight gauge connected to the cobra. Looks like so simple but I can=92t see the inconvenient=85 Max Cointe F-PMLH Europa_TriGear Kit #560 912ULS Airmaster 450 hours mcointe@free.fr De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Bud Yerly Envoy=E9 : mardi 8 janvier 2013 05:20 =C0 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : Re: Europa-List: Power loss and Inspecting comments Paul, I make sure my drain for the cobra neck is a ways down the tube so the first time I know my tank is full (other than my sight gauge) is fuel runs out the vent / drain. This keeps the bugs out and the tube clean I guess. I put the vent inboard just enough to miss my toes on an overfill. Airplanes are 20,000 compromises flying in close formation. So we all have to put up with something. I have never had a problem with my vent tube or drain. But then again I have a trigear and operate off of asphalt. I too do not like fumes in the plane, so I make a metal elbows for the filler, use lined fuel tube, (R9 style), put drains under the tank bottom reinforcements, under my cockpit module where my pumps are, under my seats where the filters are so I know if I have a leak anywhere, and it all stays clean. My wheel pants are quite low for speed and so I avoid soggy grass strips. Those who complain about upper vent vs lower vent are living with other compromises. I just don't like them up there and because I tend to do a bit of spirited flying, fuel comes out of my upper drains if installed and fuel stains. They are tough to finish nice also, and the sight gauge vent tends to change the fuel level at different speeds. They are also tougher for the upholster to finish on the inside. It is all about compromises and preferences. Best Regards, bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul McAllister Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 12:09 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Power loss and Inspecting comments Bud, Thank you for your comments. Well thought out and valuable as always. I was one of the earlier pioneers of the system to route my filling vent and into the top of the cobra inlet. For the fuel tank / system vent I did something different again. I adopted the idea that Robin use and placed my vent in the backside of the wing root. At the time I thought this was a great idea, but over time perhaps its only a good idea, maybe not even that. The upside is that it is unlikely to be plugged by mud, but there are a number of downsides: - Once in a great while, if I over fill the tank, it will run out of this vent and out of the wing root over the flap. I inspect the flap regularly to make sure fuel has not got inside the core and dissolved the foam. - If I over fill the tank the fumes make there way into the flap drive slot during flight. - I have to take the wing off to inspect the vent which doesn't happen regularly. There is a slight risk on my area that an insect called a "Mud Dauber" can get in there. So, in conclusion, while these departures from the original design seem like a good idea there are often hidden consequences. Over the years I have become involved in inspecting and technical counselling for the EAA, and the experience of this community has taught me that fuel systems and modifications to them feature high on the list of accident causes. Cheers, Paul On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Bud Yerly wrote: Jim, and tibits for the rest of us: After the tire failure and the subsequent off roading mud and dirt experience while cross country, I commend you for your pursuit of the problem which cost you much time, and money. You knew you had a mud plugged vent, but an experienced guy like you missed the kinked vent line cause. So what's a normal guy to do? I had to ponder that we (really me), are always quick to assume an engine related problem is causing the power loss. You told me about finding the kink but I still assumed that you had a carb problem. You cleared the clogged vent, but who would have thought about the rest of the vent system and a possible kinked line when the plane has been flying for years. I am anal about fuel system install and operation, but once installed, I rarely look beyond making sure there is not chaffing or leaks. Added for all of us: Recently I just finished an extended annual and another fuel tank replacement / annual in a couple aircraft that I helped customers build back in 2002 and 2004. Interesting to note that on both aircraft, that they were past the 5 year hose replacement timeframe (we all dread that). In both aircraft I found that the vent line was kinked or compromised. In one of the aircraft when the upholsterer forced the fabric around the fuel cover he had forced the fuel cover over one of the polyurethane vent lines and over time the cover pushed on it nearly flat so it barely vented properly, and on the other, the vent line was perfect looking, but the hose was horribly brittle because the vent tube was made from clear Tygon tubing. Tygon is supposed to be completely impervious to fuel related problems. Duh, maybe not... In my old Europa Operators Manual there was the requirement to pull the fuel bosses off and flush the tank annually, which is quite tough, but never to check our vent system, and in the new ops manual, it only indicates to check and inspect for leaks. The 5 year recommendation for changing hoses is still there, but not the vent lines. Vent lines never get checked. As far as I know, you are the first with an underside vent that ever got plugged, however, you are the only mono I know of with the vent on the bottom and operate off of grass a lot. In the trigear the vent on the bottom is always clean, but your point of the oil overflow on the right side of the cowl exit and a centrally located vent will be a potential problem for oil, grime and dirt. I'll have to admit I will make sure my annual checklist is changed to check the vents. I prefer not to vent out of the top because with the motor glider in turns when trying to soar, the fuel sprays out of the vent in right turns. It also will vent fuel out if overfilled on a hot day in Florida and let set in the sun (especially a mono), which of course can ruining the paint. Inspecting an aircraft is not an exact science. Manufacturers and regulating agencies give only vague guidance. We are the manufacturer as the builder, so we set the guidelines for inspections of our aircraft, and if the kit manufacturer gives guidance, we the manufacturer of the aircraft should be more specific, not less to include info on our added systems, changes, modifications, and additional wear areas or time change items due to all the above. I'm in the US, and have my A&P use the FAA FAR 43 Appendix D as well as the engine 100 hour checklist and I insist on him using the Kit Manufacturers guidelines such as the Appendix E of the build manual and Section 8 of the Ops manual when inspecting an experimental aircraft. Now, I have been accused of doing a complete rebuild instead of an annual inspection, but I am anal so that is my excuse, but on an experimental aircraft (especially one I didn't help build or maintain) I have found that there are many non standard items, routing conflicts between wiring, fuel lines, brake lines and control cables, as well as poor installation of equipment and structural construction mistakes that the builder and final FAA inspector missed on the initial Airworthiness Inspection. The FAA actually requires us, as US Experimental Aircraft Manufacturers, to have established maintenance and operations procedures. I am attaching my personal annual inspection checklist out in the open to show what we the builder can do to improve the inspections on our aircraft. I only just added an item to inspect the fuel vents since you called me about the problem weeks ago. I developed this checklist long ago, before becoming a Europa owner and just tailored it to include items in the Europa Section 8 inspection, the FAA and LAA recommended guidelines etc. I am preparing to submit some of this info in a condensed fashion in an updated Tech Support section of Europa's Website as well as some other notes we all should know when maintaining the Europa. Now this is my personal checklist, not for general dissemination as a Europa Directive, but provided for others to see that an annual inspection is not a walk around. But then again, it is not an IRAN (Inspect and Repair as Necessary) like the military does by completely disassembling every panel, inside and out, instruments, wings, engine, etc. and inspect, refurbish, service and repair all the above, it is however, more than a quick check for wrinkles in the skin, change the oil and sign it off. Great job of troubleshooting and thanks for the report Jim. Your findings and my recent observations have changed my annual checklist for sure... Regards, Bud Yerly href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:41 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Power loss and Inspecting comments From: "Roland" Hi Bud, how about refueling the Europa on a trailer at the gas station (I climb onto the trailer with the petrol nozzle)? This should be no problem, right? Thanks! Roland PH-ZTI XS Trigear 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391794#391794 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:59:04 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: iPad Camara From: "Alan Carter" Hello All. There is one place on this aeroplane i have been unhappy with , it the rear end. I am sure most owners feel quit OK with it, but i am not, so for me i want to do something to make me feel better,hence my question. I use an iPad GPS with WiFi for navigation, is there such a thing as a wireless camera with the transmitter in the actual camera, that i can mount on the rear top fuselage that will send video to my iPad. Small wireless camera that will work with iPad 3. Many thanks. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391847#391847 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:20:01 PM PST US From: "John O'Connor" Subject: Re: Europa-List: iPad Camara Try googling for ipad reversing camera and you will see that a lot of people are trying to do this. Some seem to have done it! jpoc On 09/01/13 11:58, Alan Carter wrote: > > Hello All. > There is one place on this aeroplane i have been unhappy with , it the rear end. I am sure most owners feel quit OK with it, but i am not, so for me i want to do something to make me feel better,hence my question. > I use an iPad GPS with WiFi for navigation, is there such a thing as a wireless camera with the transmitter in the actual camera, that i can mount on the rear top fuselage that will send video to my iPad. > Small wireless camera that will work with iPad 3. > Many thanks. > Alan > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391847#391847 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:44 PM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: iPad Camara The WiFi version of one of these should work: http://gopro.com/ There were several aircraft on static display at AOPA Summit with GoPro cameras mounted in various locations. There is also a version of the Sony with WiFi, and a simple watertight case (with 1/4-20 female thread for mounting) is standard with this camera, plus it has a smaller profile (read: less drag) http://store.sony.com/p/Action-Cam,-Compact,-Rugged,-HD-video,-action-camcor der,-Go-Pro,-Skateboarding,-Cycling,-Hiking,-AS10/en/p/HDRAS10/B Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Rotax 914 S/N A070 Airframe complete Avionics soon -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John O'Connor Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 3:19 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: iPad Camara Try googling for ipad reversing camera and you will see that a lot of people are trying to do this. Some seem to have done it! jpoc On 09/01/13 11:58, Alan Carter wrote: > --> > > Hello All. > There is one place on this aeroplane i have been unhappy with , it the rear end. I am sure most owners feel quit OK with it, but i am not, so for me i want to do something to make me feel better,hence my question. > I use an iPad GPS with WiFi for navigation, is there such a thing as a wireless camera with the transmitter in the actual camera, that i can mount on the rear top fuselage that will send video to my iPad. > Small wireless camera that will work with iPad 3. > Many thanks. > Alan > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391847#391847 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: iPad Camara From: Robert Borger Gents, I have a GoPro 2 with WiFi bakpak and the WiFi app on both my iPhone and iPad. I can verify that it works just fine on both. You can view the video from the camera and operate the camera controls from the iPhone or iPad. The only problem might be mounting the camera on the tail. It's not the most streamlined camera out there but other folks have mounted them on the wings and body of aircraft so there is probably a way to do it. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jan 8, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Rob Housman wrote: The WiFi version of one of these should work: http://gopro.com/ There were several aircraft on static display at AOPA Summit with GoPro cameras mounted in various locations. There is also a version of the Sony with WiFi, and a simple watertight case (with 1/4-20 female thread for mounting) is standard with this camera, plus it has a smaller profile (read: less drag) http://store.sony.com/p/Action-Cam,-Compact,-Rugged,-HD-video,-action-camcor der,-Go-Pro,-Skateboarding,-Cycling,-Hiking,-AS10/en/p/HDRAS10/B Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Rotax 914 S/N A070 Airframe complete Avionics soon -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John O'Connor Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 3:19 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: iPad Camara Try googling for ipad reversing camera and you will see that a lot of people are trying to do this. Some seem to have done it! jpoc On 09/01/13 11:58, Alan Carter wrote: > --> > > Hello All. > There is one place on this aeroplane i have been unhappy with , it the rear end. I am sure most owners feel quit OK with it, but i am not, so for me i want to do something to make me feel better,hence my question. > I use an iPad GPS with WiFi for navigation, is there such a thing as a wireless camera with the transmitter in the actual camera, that i can mount on the rear top fuselage that will send video to my iPad. > Small wireless camera that will work with iPad 3. > Many thanks. > Alan > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391847#391847 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.