---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/10/13: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:59 AM - Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 2. 03:15 AM - Re: Narco com FM Antenna filter (LAURENS yannick) 3. 04:01 AM - Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? (G-ODTW) 4. 05:00 AM - Re: Narco com FM Antenna filter (Kevin Challis) 5. 05:12 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 01/08/13 (D SAGAR) 6. 05:30 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 01/08/13 (David Joyce) 7. 06:04 AM - unsubscribing from the list [was: Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 01/08/13] (Rowland Carson) 8. 06:57 AM - Re: Narco com FM Antenna filter (Kevin Challis) 9. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 10. 01:45 PM - Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:59:55 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? Nigel=0AI've never used Superfil but have recommended it, it is the simples t way to achieve consistent density of the filler.=0AMixing expancell consi stently is near impossible, the filler is so light it can't be weighed accu rately in the quantities we use. Equally difficult=0A-to be-consistent -with volume because it-compacts-so easily. I wonder if compacting it first -then-weighing-it would work?=0ANever tried that=0AGraham=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.u k" =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: S unday, 30 December 2012, 8:50=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106?=0A =0A--> Europa-List message posted by: =0A=0AA good bit of advice from Craig and Bud.=0AAll resins continue to cure (allbeit very slowly) over the years an d as they do, they shrink a little The longer you can leave it between fill ing and sanding, the better the finish you will achieve. If you have ever w alked down a flight line of Europas and noticed the clear outline of spars and ribs in the beautifully painted wing surfaces, it's because the filler contined to shrink after they were painted.=0AIf (like me) your build exten ds to years rather than months, you could fill the wings (as per Bud's inst ructions) and simply leave them and move onto other tasks before returning to flattening and painting. I left mine for over six months.=0AI too have h ad great results with SuperFil, though the downside- is cost.=0A=0AHappy New Year to everyone=0A=0ANigel=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- From: "craig" =0ATo: =0ASent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:17 AM=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Filling/Pain ting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106?=0A=0A=0A> --> Europa-List messa ge posted by: "craig" =0A> =0A> As always great adv ice from bud, one thing I found when doing my tailplanes=0A> was that it se ems much easier to=0A> Sand if the filler is left for a few days or more to cure.=0A> =0A> Sanding a few hours after cure using RADID hardener seemed very hard work,=0A> paper continually clogging=0A> But the same surface a c ouple of days later was much better, and no clogging=0A> =0A> Good luck=0A> - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ==== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:51 AM PST US From: LAURENS yannick Subject: Re: Europa-List: Narco com FM Antenna filter I have the narco 810 radio without filter, and I didn't notice any troubles with the GPS ( I have a bendix AV80R gps ) perhaps a pb with particular frequency ? Yannick LAURENS FPSCZ Le 7 janv. 13 23:56, William Bliss a crit : > > > Anyone help with this please > > My Europa has a Narco 810 radio. The aerial cable routes via a Narco > Com FM Antenna Filter P/N 01530-0101 > > Can someone tell me what it is there for? Is it really needed? > > Thanks > > Will Bliss > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:32 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? From: "G-ODTW" Again, thanks to Nev, Bud, Graham, Craig, Nigel, Bob, & everyone else. I now feel I know how to prepare those acres of surfaces. My tail planes were made many years back. Now the sleeves are no longer coaxial, so I am sure that epoxy does move with time. Therefore I will be following that advice about filling the wings and leaving them somewhere warm for months before sanding them. Maybe another 45 deg C soak. -------- David Walters 01474 816817 dave@robotas.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391969#391969 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:39 AM PST US From: Kevin Challis Subject: Re: Europa-List: Narco com FM Antenna filter I think mine is a MK12D but I can't remember for sure. Garmin 495 & garmin handheld etrek as a backup. Kevin Challis On 10 Jan 2013, at 11:14, LAURENS yannick wrote: > > I have the narco 810 radio without filter, and I didn't notice any troubles with the GPS ( I have a bendix AV80R gps ) > perhaps a pb with particular frequency ? > > Yannick LAURENS > > FPSCZ > > > Le 7 janv. 13 23:56, William Bliss a crit : > >> >> Anyone help with this please >> >> My Europa has a Narco 810 radio. The aerial cable routes via a Narco Com FM Antenna Filter P/N 01530-0101 >> >> Can someone tell me what it is there for? Is it really needed? >> >> Thanks >> >> Will Bliss > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:49 AM PST US From: D SAGAR Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 01/08/13 I would like to unsubscribe to the europa website.=0ARegards,=0ADari=0A =0A =0A________________________________=0A From: Europa-List Digest Server =0ATo: Europa-List Digest List =0ASent: Wednesday, 9 January 2013, 8:02=0ASubject: Europa-Li st Digest: 6 Msgs - 01/08/13=0A =0A*=0A=0A========== ================0A- Online Versions of Tod ay's List Digest Archive=0A================ ==========0A=0AToday's complete Europa-List Digest can al so be found in either of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below.- The .html fi le includes the Digest formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation.- The .txt fil e includes the plain ASCII version =0Aof the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. =0A=0AHTML Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestvie w.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-01-08&Archive=Europa=0A=0A Text Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?S tyle=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-01-08&Archive=Europa=0A=0A=0A= =======================0A- E Mail Version of Today's List Digest Archive=0A========= ===============0A=0A=0A- - - - - --- -------------------------------------------------------=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - Europa-List Digest Archive=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ---=0A - - - - - - - - - - Total Messages Posted Tue 01/08/13 : 6=0A- - - - - ------------------------------------------------ ----------=0A=0A=0AToday's Message Index:=0A----------------------=0A=0A- - 1. 01:44 AM - Re: Power loss and Inspecting comments- (Max Cointe) =0A- - 2. 02:52 AM - Re: Power loss and Inspecting comments- (Roland )=0A- - 3. 02:59 PM - iPad Camara- (Alan Carter)=0A- - 4. 03:20 PM - Re: iPad Camara- (John O'Connor)=0A- - 5. 04:35 PM - Re: iPad Camara- (Rob Housman)=0A- - 6. 05:48 PM - Re: iPad Camara- (Robert Borger)=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 1- ______ _______________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 01:44:13 AM PST US=0AFrom: "M ax Cointe" =0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Power loss and Ins pecting comments=0A=0AHi there all !=0A=0A=0ATalking about compromise, what about drilling a hole in the plug of the=0Afiller as a vent (like the owne r of Vega ULM located in our hangar has =0Adone=0Aon his wings). With the s ight gauge connected to the cobra. Looks like =0Aso=0Asimple but I can=92 t see the inconvenient=85=0A=0A=0AMax- Cointe=0A=0AF-PMLH Europa_TriGea r=0A=0AKit #560 912ULS Airmaster 450 hours=0A=0A mc ointe@free.fr=0A=0A=0ADe : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto :owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Bud Yerly=0AEnvoy= E9 : mardi 8 janvier 2013 05:20=0A=C0 : europa-list@matronics.com=0AObjet : Re: Europa-List: Power loss and Inspecting comments=0A=0A=0APaul,=0A=0AI make sure my drain for the cobra neck is a ways down the tube so the =0Afi rst=0Atime I know my tank is full (other than my sight gauge) is fuel runs out =0Athe=0Avent / drain.- This keeps the bugs out and the tube clean I guess.- I =0Aput=0Athe vent inboard just enough to miss my toes on an ove rfill.=0A=0A=0AAirplanes are 20,000 compromises flying in close formation. - So we all =0Ahave=0Ato put up with something.- I have never had a pro blem with my vent tube =0Aor=0Adrain.- But then again I have a trigear an d operate off of asphalt.- I =0Atoo=0Ado not like fumes in the plane, so I make a metal elbows for the filler, =0Ause=0Alined fuel tube, (R9 style), put drains under the tank bottom=0Areinforcements, under my cockpit module where my pumps are, under my =0Aseats=0Awhere the filters are so I know if I have a leak anywhere, and it all =0Astays=0Aclean.=0A=0AMy wheel pants a re quite low for speed and so I avoid soggy grass =0Astrips.=0A=0A=0AThose who complain about upper vent vs lower vent are living with other=0Acomprom ises.- I just don't like them up there and because I tend to do a =0Abit =0Aof spirited flying, fuel comes out of my upper drains if installed and =0Afuel=0Astains.- They are tough to finish nice also, and the sight gaug e vent =0Atends=0Ato change the fuel level at different speeds.- They are also tougher for =0Athe=0Aupholster to finish on the inside.=0A=0A=0AIt is all about compromises and preferences.=0A=0A=0ABest Regards,=0A=0Abud=0A =0A----- Original Message ----- =0A=0AFrom: Paul McAllister - =0A=0A=0ASent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 12:09 AM=0A =0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Power loss and Inspecting comments=0A=0A=0ABud , =0A=0A=0AThank you for your comments.- Well thought out and valuable as always.=0A=0A=0AI was one of the earlier pioneers of the system to route m y filling vent =0Aand=0Ainto the top of the cobra inlet. For the fuel tank / system vent I did=0Asomething different again.=0A=0A=0AI adopted the idea that Robin use and placed my vent in the backside of =0Athe=0Awing root. - At the time I thought this was a great idea, but over time=0Aperhaps it s only a good idea, maybe not even that.- The upside is that =0Ait is=0Au nlikely to be plugged by mud, but there are a number of downsides:=0A=0A=0A - Once in a great while, if I over fill the tank, it will run out of =0Athi s=0Avent and out of the wing root over the flap. I inspect the flap =0Aregu larly to=0Amake sure fuel has not got inside the core and dissolved the foa m.=0A=0A=0A- If I over fill the tank the fumes make there way into the flap drive =0Aslot=0Aduring flight.=0A=0A=0A- I have to take the wing off to in spect the vent which doesn't happen=0Aregularly.- There is a slight risk on my area that an insect called a =0A"Mud=0ADauber" can get in there.=0A =0A=0ASo, in conclusion, while these departures from the original design se em =0Alike=0Aa good idea there are often hidden consequences.=0A=0A=0AOver the years I have become involved in inspecting and technical=0Acounselling for the EAA, and the experience of this community has taught =0Ame=0Athat f uel systems and modifications to them feature high on the list of=0Aacciden t causes.=0A=0A=0ACheers, Paul=0A=0A=0AOn Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Bud Yerly wrote:=0A=0AJim, and tibits for the rest of us: =0A=0AAfter the tire failure and the subsequent off roading mud and dirt=0A experience while cross country, I commend you for your pursuit of the=0Apro blem which cost you much time, and money.- You knew you had a mud =0Aplug ged=0Avent, but an experienced guy like you missed the kinked vent line cau se. =0ASo=0Awhat's a normal guy to do?=0A=0A=0AI had to ponder that we (rea lly me), are always quick to assume an =0Aengine=0Arelated problem is causi ng the power loss.- You told me about finding =0Athe=0Akink but I still a ssumed that you had a carb problem.- You cleared the=0Aclogged vent, but who would have thought about the rest of the vent =0Asystem=0Aand a possibl e kinked line when the plane has been flying for years.- I =0Aam=0Aanal a bout fuel system install and operation, but once installed, I =0Ararely=0Al ook beyond making sure there is not chaffing or leaks.=0A=0A=0AAdded for al l of us:=0A=0ARecently I just finished an extended annual and another fuel tank=0Areplacement / annual in a couple aircraft that I helped customers bu ild =0Aback=0Ain 2002 and 2004.- Interesting to note that on both aircraf t, that they =0Awere=0Apast the 5 year hose replacement timeframe (we all d read that).- In both=0Aaircraft I found that the vent line was kinked or compromised.- In one =0Aof=0Athe aircraft when the upholsterer forced the fabric around the fuel =0Acover he=0Ahad forced the fuel cover over one of the polyurethane vent lines and =0Aover=0Atime the cover pushed on it near ly flat so it barely vented properly, =0Aand on=0Athe other, the vent line was perfect looking, but the hose was horribly=0Abrittle because the vent t ube was made from clear Tygon tubing.- Tygon =0Ais=0Asupposed to be compl etely impervious to fuel related problems.- Duh, =0Amaybe=0Anot...=0A=0A =0AIn my old Europa Operators Manual there was the requirement to pull the =0Afuel=0Abosses off and flush the tank annually, which is quite tough, but never =0Ato=0Acheck our vent system, and in the new ops manual, it only in dicates to =0Acheck=0Aand inspect for leaks.- The 5 year recommendation f or changing hoses is=0Astill there, but not the vent lines.- Vent lines n ever get checked.- =0A=0A=0AAs far as I know, you are the first with an u nderside vent that ever got=0Aplugged, however, you are the only mono I kno w of with the vent on the=0Abottom and operate off of grass a lot.- In th e trigear the vent on the=0Abottom is always clean, but your point of the o il overflow on the right =0Aside=0Aof the cowl exit and a centrally located vent will be a potential =0Aproblem=0Afor oil, grime and dirt.- I'll hav e to admit I will make sure my annual=0Achecklist is changed to check the v ents.=0A=0A=0AI prefer not to vent out of the top because with the motor gl ider in =0Aturns=0Awhen trying to soar, the fuel sprays out of the vent in right turns.- It=0Aalso will vent fuel out if overfilled on a hot day in Florida and let =0Aset in=0Athe sun (especially a mono), which of course ca n ruining the paint.- =0A=0A=0AInspecting an aircraft is not an exact sci ence.- Manufacturers and=0Aregulating agencies give only vague guidance. - We are the manufacturer =0Aas=0Athe builder, so we set the guidelines f or inspections of our aircraft, =0Aand=0Aif the kit manufacturer gives guid ance, we the manufacturer of the =0Aaircraft=0Ashould be more specific, not less to include info on our added systems,=0Achanges, modifications, and a dditional wear areas or time change items =0Adue=0Ato all the above.- I'm in the US, and have my A&P use the FAA FAR 43=0AAppendix D as well as the engine 100 hour checklist and I insist on him=0Ausing the Kit Manufacturers guidelines such as the Appendix E of the =0Abuild=0Amanual and Section 8 o f the Ops manual when inspecting an experimental=0Aaircraft.- Now, I have been accused of doing a complete rebuild instead =0Aof=0Aan annual inspect ion, but I am anal so that is my excuse, but on an=0Aexperimental aircraft (especially one I didn't help build or maintain) I=0Ahave found that there are many non standard items, routing conflicts =0Abetween=0Awiring, fuel li nes, brake lines and control cables, as well as poor=0Ainstallation of equi pment and structural construction mistakes that the=0Abuilder and final FAA inspector missed on the initial Airworthiness=0AInspection.- The FAA act ually requires us, as US Experimental Aircraft=0AManufacturers, to have est ablished maintenance and operations =0Aprocedures.=0A=0A=0AI am attaching m y personal annual inspection checklist out in the open =0Ato=0Ashow what we the builder can do to improve the inspections on our =0Aaircraft.=0AI only just added an item to inspect the fuel vents since you called me=0Aabout t he problem weeks ago.- I developed this checklist long ago, =0Abefore=0Ab ecoming a Europa owner and just tailored it to include items in the =0AEuro pa=0ASection 8 inspection, the FAA and LAA recommended guidelines etc.- I am=0Apreparing to submit some of this info in a condensed fashion in an =0Aupdated=0ATech Support section of Europa's Website as well as some other notes we =0Aall=0Ashould know when maintaining the Europa.- Now this is my personal =0Achecklist,=0Anot for general dissemination as a Europa Direc tive, but provided for =0Aothers=0Ato see that an annual inspection is not a walk around.- But then again, =0Ait=0Ais not an IRAN (Inspect and Repai r as Necessary) like the military does =0Aby=0Acompletely disassembling eve ry panel, inside and out, instruments, =0Awings,=0Aengine, etc. and inspect , refurbish, service and repair all the above, =0Ait is=0Ahowever, more tha n a quick check for wrinkles in the skin, change the =0Aoil=0Aand sign it o ff.=0A=0A=0AGreat job of troubleshooting and thanks for the report Jim.- Your =0Afindings=0Aand my recent observations have changed my annual checkl ist for sure...=0A=0A=0ARegards,=0A=0ABud Yerly=0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron/=0Ahref=0A "http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com/=0Ahref ="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c=0A=0A =0A________________________________- Message 2- _______________________ ______________=0A=0A=0ATime: 02:52:41 AM PST US=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: Power loss and Inspecting comments=0AFrom: "Roland" =0A=0A=0AHi Bud,=0A=0Ahow about refueling the Europa on a trailer at the ga s station (I climb onto the=0Atrailer with the petrol nozzle)? =0A=0AThis s hould be no problem, right?=0A=0AThanks!=0A=0ARoland=0APH-ZTI=0AXS Trigear 914=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/v iewtopic.php?p=391794#391794=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 3- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 02:59:04 P M PST US=0ASubject: Europa-List: iPad Camara=0AFrom: "Alan Carter" =0A=0A=0AHello All.=0AThere is one place on this aeroplan e i have been unhappy with , it the rear end.=0AI am sure most owners feel quit OK with it, but i am not, so for me i want to=0Ado something to make m e feel better,hence my question.=0AI use an iPad GPS with WiFi for navigati on, is there such a thing as a wireless=0Acamera with the transmitter in th e actual camera, that i can mount on the rear=0Atop fuselage that will send video to my iPad.=0ASmall wireless camera that will work with iPad 3. =0AM any thanks.=0AAlan=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums. matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391847#391847=0A=0A=0A_____________________ ___________- Message 4- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0AT ime: 03:20:01 PM PST US=0AFrom: "John O'Connor" =0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: iPad Camara=0A=0A=0ATry googling for ipad reversing camera and you will see that a lot of=0Apeople are trying to do this. Some seem t o have done it!=0A=0Ajpoc=0A=0AOn 09/01/13 11:58, Alan Carter wrote:=0A> =0A> Hello All.=0A> There is one place on this aeroplane i have been unhapp y with , it the rear end.=0AI am sure most owners feel quit OK with it, but i am not, so for me i want=0Ato do something to make me feel better,hence my question.=0A> I use an iPad GPS with WiFi for navigation, is there such a thing as a wireless=0Acamera with the transmitter in the actual camera, t hat i can mount on the rear=0Atop fuselage that will send video to my iPad. =0A> Small wireless camera that will work with iPad 3. =0A> Many thanks.=0A > Alan=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http:/ /forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391847#391847=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 5- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 04:35:44 P M PST US=0AFrom: "Rob Housman" =0ASubject: RE: Europa- List: iPad Camara=0A=0A=0AThe WiFi version of one of these should work: htt p://gopro.com/- There were=0Aseveral aircraft on static display at AOPA S ummit with GoPro cameras mounted=0Ain various locations.=0A=0AThere is also a version of the Sony with WiFi, and a simple watertight case=0A(with 1/4- 20 female thread for mounting) is standard with this camera, plus=0Ait has a smaller profile (read: less drag)=0Ahttp://store.sony.com/p/Action-Cam,-C ompact,-Rugged,-HD-video,-action-camcor=0Ader,-Go-Pro,-Skateboarding,-Cycli ng,-Hiking,-AS10/en/p/HDRAS10/B=0A=0A=0ABest regards,=0A=0ARob Housman=0A =0AIrvine, California=0AEuropa XS=0ARotax 914=0AS/N A070=0AAirframe complet e=0AAvionics soon=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-europa-list -server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John O'Connor=0ASent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 3:19 PM=0ASubject : Re: Europa-List: iPad Camara=0A=0A=0ATry googling for ipad reversing came ra and you will see that a lot of people=0Aare trying to do this. Some seem to have done it!=0A=0Ajpoc=0A=0AOn 09/01/13 11:58, Alan Carter wrote:=0A> --> =0A> =0A> Hello All.=0A> There is one place o n this aeroplane i have been unhappy with , it the=0Arear end. I am sure mo st owners feel quit OK with it, but i am not, so for=0Ame i want to do some thing to make me feel better,hence my question.=0A> I use an iPad GPS with WiFi for navigation, is there such a thing as a=0Awireless camera with the transmitter in the actual camera, that i can mount=0Aon the rear top fusela ge that will send video to my iPad.=0A> Small wireless camera that will wor k with iPad 3. =0A> Many thanks.=0A> Alan=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p= 391847#391847=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A=0A=0A___ _____________________________- Message 6- _____________________________ ________=0A=0A=0ATime: 05:48:45 PM PST US=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: iPad Camara=0AFrom: Robert Borger =0A=0A=0AGents,=0A=0AI have a GoPro 2 with WiFi bakpak and the WiFi app on both my iPhone and iPad.=0AI can verify that it works just fine on both.- You can view the video from the=0Acamera and operate the camera controls from the iPhone or iPad.=0A =0AThe only problem might be mounting the camera on the tail.- It's not t he most streamlined=0Acamera out there but other folks have mounted them on the wings and=0Abody of aircraft so there is probably a way to do it.=0A =0ABlue skies & tailwinds,=0ABob Borger=0AEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmast er C/S Prop.=0ALittle Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP =0A3705 Lynchburg Dr.=0ACorinth, TX- 76208-5331=0ACel: 817-992-1117=0Arlb orger@mac.com=0A=0AOn Jan 8, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Rob Housman wrote:=0A=0A=0AThe WiFi version of one of these should work: http://g opro.com/- There were=0Aseveral aircraft on static display at AOPA Summit with GoPro cameras mounted=0Ain various locations.=0A=0AThere is also a ve rsion of the Sony with WiFi, and a simple watertight case=0A(with 1/4-20 fe male thread for mounting) is standard with this camera, plus=0Ait has a sma ller profile (read: less drag)=0Ahttp://store.sony.com/p/Action-Cam,-Compac t,-Rugged,-HD-video,-action-camcor=0Ader,-Go-Pro,-Skateboarding,-Cycling,-H iking,-AS10/en/p/HDRAS10/B=0A=0A=0ABest regards,=0A=0ARob Housman=0A=0AIrvi ne, California=0AEuropa XS=0ARotax 914=0AS/N A070=0AAirframe complete=0AAvi onics soon=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-europa-list-server @matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John O'Connor=0ASent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 3:19 PM=0ASubject: Re: E uropa-List: iPad Camara=0A=0A=0ATry googling for ipad reversing camera and you will see that a lot of people=0Aare trying to do this. Some seem to hav e done it!=0A=0Ajpoc=0A=0AOn 09/01/13 11:58, Alan Carter wrote:=0A> --> =0A> =0A> Hello All.=0A> There is one place on this aeroplane i have been unhappy with , it the=0Arear end. I am sure most owne rs feel quit OK with it, but i am not, so for=0Ame i want to do something t o make me feel better,hence my question.=0A> I use an iPad GPS with WiFi fo r navigation, is there such a thing as a=0Awireless camera with the transmi tter in the actual camera, that i can mount=0Aon the rear top fuselage that will send video to my iPad.=0A> Small wireless camera that will work with iPad 3. =0A> Many thanks.=0A> Alan=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391847# 391847=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_ -======================== ============== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:11 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 01/08/13 Dari, sad to lose you, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 13:12:13 +0000 (GMT) D SAGAR wrote: > I would like to unsubscribe to the europa website. > Regards, > Dari > > > ________________________________ > From: Europa-List Digest Server > > To: Europa-List Digest List > > Sent: Wednesday, 9 January 2013, 8:02 > Subject: Europa-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 01/08/13 > > * > > ======================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ======================== > > Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in >either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the >Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features >Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the >plain ASCII version > of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a >generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > >http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-01-08&Archive=Europa > > Text Version: > > >http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-01-08&Archive=Europa > > > ====================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ====================== > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Europa-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Tue 01/08/13: >6 > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 01:44 AM - Re: Power loss and Inspecting >comments (Max Cointe) > 2. 02:52 AM - Re: Power loss and Inspecting >comments (Roland) > 3. 02:59 PM - iPad Camara (Alan Carter) > 4. 03:20 PM - Re: iPad Camara (John O'Connor) > 5. 04:35 PM - Re: iPad Camara (Rob Housman) > 6. 05:48 PM - Re: iPad Camara (Robert Borger) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 >_____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:44:13 AM PST US >From: "Max Cointe" > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Power loss and Inspecting >comments > > Hi there all ! > > > Talking about compromise, what about drilling a hole in >the plug of the > filler as a vent (like the owner of Vega ULM located in >our hangar has > done > on his wings). With the sight gauge connected to the >cobra. Looks like > so > simple but I can=92t see the inconvenient=85 > > > Max Cointe > >F-PMLH Europa_TriGear > > Kit #560 912ULS Airmaster 450 hours > > mcointe@free.fr > > > De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la >part de Bud Yerly > Envoy=E9 : mardi 8 janvier 2013 05:20 > =C0 : europa-list@matronics.com > Objet : Re: Europa-List: Power loss and Inspecting >comments > > > Paul, > > I make sure my drain for the cobra neck is a ways down >the tube so the > first > time I know my tank is full (other than my sight gauge) >is fuel runs out > the > vent / drain. This keeps the bugs out and the tube >clean I guess. I > put > the vent inboard just enough to miss my toes on an >overfill. > > > Airplanes are 20,000 compromises flying in close >formation. So we all > have > to put up with something. I have never had a problem >with my vent tube > or > drain. But then again I have a trigear and operate off >of asphalt. I > too > do not like fumes in the plane, so I make a metal elbows >for the filler, > use > lined fuel tube, (R9 style), put drains under the tank >bottom > reinforcements, under my cockpit module where my pumps >are, under my > seats > where the filters are so I know if I have a leak >anywhere, and it all > stays > clean. > > My wheel pants are quite low for speed and so I avoid >soggy grass > strips. > > > Those who complain about upper vent vs lower vent are >living with other > compromises. I just don't like them up there and >because I tend to do a > bit > of spirited flying, fuel comes out of my upper drains if >installed and > fuel > stains. They are tough to finish nice also, and the >sight gauge vent > tends > to change the fuel level at different speeds. They are >also tougher for > the > upholster to finish on the inside. > > > It is all about compromises and preferences. > > > Best Regards, > > bud > > ----- Original Message ----- > >From: Paul McAllister > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2013 12:09 AM > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Power loss and Inspecting >comments > > > Bud, > > > Thank you for your comments. Well thought out and >valuable as always. > > > I was one of the earlier pioneers of the system to route >my filling vent > and > into the top of the cobra inlet. For the fuel tank / >system vent I did > something different again. > > > I adopted the idea that Robin use and placed my vent in >the backside of > the > wing root. At the time I thought this was a great idea, >but over time > perhaps its only a good idea, maybe not even that. The >upside is that > it is > unlikely to be plugged by mud, but there are a number of >downsides: > > > - Once in a great while, if I over fill the tank, it >will run out of > this > vent and out of the wing root over the flap. I inspect >the flap > regularly to > make sure fuel has not got inside the core and dissolved >the foam. > > > - If I over fill the tank the fumes make there way into >the flap drive > slot > during flight. > > > - I have to take the wing off to inspect the vent which >doesn't happen > regularly. There is a slight risk on my area that an >insect called a > "Mud > Dauber" can get in there. > > > So, in conclusion, while these departures from the >original design seem > like > a good idea there are often hidden consequences. > > > Over the years I have become involved in inspecting and >technical > counselling for the EAA, and the experience of this >community has taught > me > that fuel systems and modifications to them feature high >on the list of > accident causes. > > > Cheers, Paul > > > On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Bud Yerly > wrote: > > Jim, and tibits for the rest of us: > > After the tire failure and the subsequent off roading >mud and dirt > experience while cross country, I commend you for your >pursuit of the > problem which cost you much time, and money. You knew >you had a mud > plugged > vent, but an experienced guy like you missed the kinked >vent line cause. > So > what's a normal guy to do? > > > I had to ponder that we (really me), are always quick to >assume an > engine > related problem is causing the power loss. You told me >about finding > the > kink but I still assumed that you had a carb problem. >You cleared the > clogged vent, but who would have thought about the rest >of the vent > system > and a possible kinked line when the plane has been >flying for years. I > am > anal about fuel system install and operation, but once >installed, I > rarely > look beyond making sure there is not chaffing or leaks. > > > Added for all of us: > > Recently I just finished an extended annual and another >fuel tank > replacement / annual in a couple aircraft that I helped >customers build > back > in 2002 and 2004. Interesting to note that on both >aircraft, that they > were > past the 5 year hose replacement timeframe (we all dread >that). In both > aircraft I found that the vent line was kinked or >compromised. In one > of > the aircraft when the upholsterer forced the fabric >around the fuel > cover he > had forced the fuel cover over one of the polyurethane >vent lines and > over > time the cover pushed on it nearly flat so it barely >vented properly, > and on > the other, the vent line was perfect looking, but the >hose was horribly > brittle because the vent tube was made from clear Tygon >tubing. Tygon > is > supposed to be completely impervious to fuel related >problems. Duh, > maybe > not... > > > In my old Europa Operators Manual there was the >requirement to pull the > fuel > bosses off and flush the tank annually, which is quite >tough, but never > to > check our vent system, and in the new ops manual, it >only indicates to > check > and inspect for leaks. The 5 year recommendation for >changing hoses is > still there, but not the vent lines. Vent lines never >get checked. > > > As far as I know, you are the first with an underside >vent that ever got > plugged, however, you are the only mono I know of with >the vent on the > bottom and operate off of grass a lot. In the trigear >the vent on the > bottom is always clean, but your point of the oil >overflow on the right > side > of the cowl exit and a centrally located vent will be a >potential > problem > for oil, grime and dirt. I'll have to admit I will make >sure my annual > checklist is changed to check the vents. > > > I prefer not to vent out of the top because with the >motor glider in > turns > when trying to soar, the fuel sprays out of the vent in >right turns. It > also will vent fuel out if overfilled on a hot day in >Florida and let > set in > the sun (especially a mono), which of course can ruining >the paint. > > > Inspecting an aircraft is not an exact science. >Manufacturers and > regulating agencies give only vague guidance. We are >the manufacturer > as > the builder, so we set the guidelines for inspections of >our aircraft, > and > if the kit manufacturer gives guidance, we the >manufacturer of the > aircraft > should be more specific, not less to include info on our >added systems, > changes, modifications, and additional wear areas or >time change items > due > to all the above. I'm in the US, and have my A&P use >the FAA FAR 43 > Appendix D as well as the engine 100 hour checklist and >I insist on him > using the Kit Manufacturers guidelines such as the >Appendix E of the > build > manual and Section 8 of the Ops manual when inspecting >an experimental > aircraft. Now, I have been accused of doing a complete >rebuild instead > of > an annual inspection, but I am anal so that is my >excuse, but on an > experimental aircraft (especially one I didn't help >build or maintain) I > have found that there are many non standard items, >routing conflicts > between > wiring, fuel lines, brake lines and control cables, as >well as poor > installation of equipment and structural construction >mistakes that the > builder and final FAA inspector missed on the initial >Airworthiness > Inspection. The FAA actually requires us, as US >Experimental Aircraft > Manufacturers, to have established maintenance and >operations > procedures. > > > I am attaching my personal annual inspection checklist >out in the open > to > show what we the builder can do to improve the >inspections on our > aircraft. > I only just added an item to inspect the fuel vents >since you called me > about the problem weeks ago. I developed this checklist >long ago, > before > becoming a Europa owner and just tailored it to include >items in the > Europa > Section 8 inspection, the FAA and LAA recommended >guidelines etc. I am > preparing to submit some of this info in a condensed >fashion in an > updated > Tech Support section of Europa's Website as well as some >other notes we > all > should know when maintaining the Europa. Now this is my >personal > checklist, > not for general dissemination as a Europa Directive, but >provided for > others > to see that an annual inspection is not a walk around. >But then again, > it > is not an IRAN (Inspect and Repair as Necessary) like >the military does > by > completely disassembling every panel, inside and out, >instruments, > wings, > engine, etc. and inspect, refurbish, service and repair >all the above, > it is > however, more than a quick check for wrinkles in the >skin, change the > oil > and sign it off. > > > Great job of troubleshooting and thanks for the report >Jim. Your > findings > and my recent observations have changed my annual >checklist for sure... > > > Regards, > > Bud Yerly > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron/ > href > matro > nics.com> >"http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com/ > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > > ________________________________ Message 2 >_____________________________________ > > > Time: 02:52:41 AM PST US > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Power loss and Inspecting >comments >From: "Roland" > > > Hi Bud, > > how about refueling the Europa on a trailer at the gas >station (I climb onto the > trailer with the petrol nozzle)? > > This should be no problem, right? > > Thanks! > > Roland > PH-ZTI > XS Trigear 914 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391794#391794 > > > ________________________________ Message 3 >_____________________________________ > > > Time: 02:59:04 PM PST US > Subject: Europa-List: iPad Camara >From: "Alan Carter" > > > Hello All. > There is one place on this aeroplane i have been unhappy >with , it the rear end. > I am sure most owners feel quit OK with it, but i am >not, so for me i want to > do something to make me feel better,hence my question. > I use an iPad GPS with WiFi for navigation, is there >such a thing as a wireless > camera with the transmitter in the actual camera, that i >can mount on the rear > top fuselage that will send video to my iPad. > Small wireless camera that will work with iPad 3. > Many thanks. > Alan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391847#391847 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 >_____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:20:01 PM PST US >From: "John O'Connor" > Subject: Re: Europa-List: iPad Camara > > > Try googling for ipad reversing camera and you will see >that a lot of > people are trying to do this. Some seem to have done it! > > jpoc > > On 09/01/13 11:58, Alan Carter wrote: >> >> Hello All. >> There is one place on this aeroplane i have been unhappy >>with , it the rear end. > I am sure most owners feel quit OK with it, but i am >not, so for me i want > to do something to make me feel better,hence my >question. >> I use an iPad GPS with WiFi for navigation, is there >>such a thing as a wireless > camera with the transmitter in the actual camera, that i >can mount on the rear > top fuselage that will send video to my iPad. >> Small wireless camera that will work with iPad 3. >> Many thanks. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391847#391847 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 5 >_____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:35:44 PM PST US >From: "Rob Housman" > Subject: RE: Europa-List: iPad Camara > > > The WiFi version of one of these should work: >http://gopro.com/ There were > several aircraft on static display at AOPA Summit with >GoPro cameras mounted > in various locations. > > There is also a version of the Sony with WiFi, and a >simple watertight case > (with 1/4-20 female thread for mounting) is standard >with this camera, plus > it has a smaller profile (read: less drag) > http://store.sony.com/p/Action-Cam,-Compact,-Rugged,-HD-video,-action-camcor > der,-Go-Pro,-Skateboarding,-Cycling,-Hiking,-AS10/en/p/HDRAS10/B > > > Best regards, > > Rob Housman > > Irvine, California > Europa XS > Rotax 914 > S/N A070 > Airframe complete > Avionics soon > > -----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On >Behalf Of John O'Connor > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 3:19 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: iPad Camara > > > Try googling for ipad reversing camera and you will see >that a lot of people > are trying to do this. Some seem to have done it! > > jpoc > > On 09/01/13 11:58, Alan Carter wrote: >> --> >> >> Hello All. >> There is one place on this aeroplane i have been unhappy >>with , it the > rear end. I am sure most owners feel quit OK with it, >but i am not, so for > me i want to do something to make me feel better,hence >my question. >> I use an iPad GPS with WiFi for navigation, is there >>such a thing as a > wireless camera with the transmitter in the actual >camera, that i can mount > on the rear top fuselage that will send video to my >iPad. >> Small wireless camera that will work with iPad 3. >> Many thanks. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391847#391847 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 6 >_____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:48:45 PM PST US > Subject: Re: Europa-List: iPad Camara >From: Robert Borger > > > Gents, > > I have a GoPro 2 with WiFi bakpak and the WiFi app on >both my iPhone and iPad. > I can verify that it works just fine on both. You can >view the video from the > camera and operate the camera controls from the iPhone >or iPad. > > The only problem might be mounting the camera on the >tail. It's not the most streamlined > camera out there but other folks have mounted them on >the wings and > body of aircraft so there is probably a way to do it. > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger > Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. > Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 >EXP > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208-5331 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > rlborger@mac.com > > On Jan 8, 2013, at 6:34 PM, Rob Housman > wrote: > > > The WiFi version of one of these should work: >http://gopro.com/ There were > several aircraft on static display at AOPA Summit with >GoPro cameras mounted > in various locations. > > There is also a version of the Sony with WiFi, and a >simple watertight case > (with 1/4-20 female thread for mounting) is standard >with this camera, plus > it has a smaller profile (read: less drag) > http://store.sony.com/p/Action-Cam,-Compact,-Rugged,-HD-video,-action-camcor > der,-Go-Pro,-Skateboarding,-Cycling,-Hiking,-AS10/en/p/HDRAS10/B > > > Best regards, > > Rob Housman > > Irvine, California > Europa XS > Rotax 914 > S/N A070 > Airframe complete > Avionics soon > > -----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On >Behalf Of John O'Connor > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 3:19 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: iPad Camara > > > Try googling for ipad reversing camera and you will see >that a lot of people > are trying to do this. Some seem to have done it! > > jpoc > > On 09/01/13 11:58, Alan Carter wrote: >> --> >> >> Hello All. >> There is one place on this aeroplane i have been unhappy >>with , it the > rear end. I am sure most owners feel quit OK with it, >but i am not, so for > me i want to do something to make me feel better,hence >my question. >> I use an iPad GPS with WiFi for navigation, is there >>such a thing as a > wireless camera with the transmitter in the actual >camera, that i can mount > on the rear top fuselage that will send video to my >iPad. >> Small wireless camera that will work with iPad 3. >> Many thanks. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391847#391847 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:20 AM PST US Subject: unsubscribing from the list [was: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 01/08/13] From: Rowland Carson On 10 Jan 2013, at 13:12, D SAGAR wrote: > I would like to unsubscribe to the europa website. > Regards, > Dari {BIG snip} > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Dari - sorry to see you go. However, posting a message saying "I would like to unsubscribe" will not work. And nobody else (apart from Matt Dralle, who has better things to do) can do it for you. What WILL work is if you scroll down to the bottom of ANY message from the Europa Matronics list, where you'll see the lines I have left intact above. Then click (or double-click, depending on how you are reading the message) on the link "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List". That will take you to the list admin area where you can unsubscribe yourself. If you can't work out what to do when you get there, send a message direct to me at the address in my signature lines below (we don't need to clutter the list with this sort of admin stuff) and I'll walk you through it. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:34 AM PST US From: "Kevin Challis" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Narco com FM Antenna filter I have found it blocks the gps signal on the following freqs Sandown 119.27, Texel 119.30, Zaragoza 119.30. ----- Original Message ----- From: "LAURENS yannick" Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 11:14 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Narco com FM Antenna filter > > I have the narco 810 radio without filter, and I didn't notice any > troubles with the GPS ( I have a bendix AV80R gps ) > perhaps a pb with particular frequency ? > > Yannick LAURENS > > FPSCZ > > > Le 7 janv. 13 23:56, William Bliss a crit : > >> >> Anyone help with this please >> >> My Europa has a Narco 810 radio. The aerial cable routes via a Narco Com >> FM Antenna Filter P/N 01530-0101 >> >> Can someone tell me what it is there for? Is it really needed? >> >> Thanks >> >> Will Bliss >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:18 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Group A couple of notes on filling with Expancel: ** I find that after wetting out the surface, I let my Aeropoxy cure until it's very very tacky, this way when you try applying the very very dry mix of Expancel, you can get it to stick instead of rolling off ** I find that you are better off mixing not too much Expancel at once, the heat from mixing kicks off the Aeropoxy quicker, helper or not I will weigh out Aeropoxy, just not mix it in several cups (I use between 8 and 16 oz paper cups), then mix up the Aeropoxy and keep on adding Expancel until it's as dry as bread dough, Nev taught me that if you get it dry enough it sands like Balsa, I never had much success getting it to stick without rolling off and sand like Balsa until I found the secret to letting the thin pure epoxy begin to cure and get very sticky ** Invariably you find yourself taking too long applying the very dry Expancel and it hardens a little and is very difficult to get it how you want it, two tricks both use heat, 1) heat up your spackle knife with a heat gun and it makes things slide very nice, often I will do this for final passes after you get what you want applied 2) You can add some heat from the heat gun to an area that is just plain being uncooperative ** Like many have mentioned if you don't fill enough, you get subsequent rings and batches that don't sand the same. There is a learning curve, but it takes a while before you convince yourself to fill it a lot more than you think you need to, then fill some more. Especially on difficult to sand compound curved areas, the "don't use any more spackle than you need to" mentality comes out, in areas like that, I will 75% fill with dry Expancel (but not quite as dry as when filling very large areas), then let the Expancel begin to cure a bit so it kinda holds it's shape, then give it a second pass fill after heating the first layer a little. Ron P. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:45:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? From: Fred Klein On Dec 30, 2012, at 12:50 AM, wrote: > I too have had great results with SuperFil, though the downside is > cost. Nigel...have you kept track of total quantity of SuperFil used?...on Classic? or XS?...jus curious, Fred ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.