Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:36 AM - Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk)
2. 07:25 AM - Grounding & Fuelling ()
3. 07:36 AM - Flying near Cb's ()
4. 09:39 AM - Re: Grounding & Fuelling (Frans Veldman)
5. 07:20 PM - Re: Re: Power loss and Inspecting comments (Bud Yerly)
6. 07:40 PM - Re: Grounding & Fuelling (Bud Yerly)
7. 07:51 PM - Re: Flying near Cb's (Bud Yerly)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? |
Hi Fred,
Yes. I bought a three gallon kit at Sun-n-Fun, used the first gallon,
opened the second tin and discovered a faulty mix (lumpy), took it back
to the SpuerFill agent in the UK, who replaced the whole kit with
another three gallon kit. So in total I have had four gallons.
Mine was a classic with foam wings and I did try the factory filling
technique, though to be honest, did not have a lot of luck with it. If I
had had the benefit of Nev's missive then, I would have persevered
I needed to fill the wings with the least amount of filler (weight and
cost), guarantee the profile and guarantee that both wing profiles were
the same.
I hit on the idea of creating "Template Fences" made from three 2" wide
strips of profiled filler, inboard outboard and centre of each wing
surface, to which I could fill and flatten. I cut three MDF master
aerofoil profiles, one for each station and used these to profile the
fences. With all three fences aligned, this guaranteed the correct
profile over the whole wing and guaranteed that both wings were
identical (not such a problem with the XS wings).
I needed to fill above this reference to give me waste material to cut
back, but I did not want to waste expensive filler, so I stuck on three
or four layers of PVC electrical tape to each fence to raise the
surface. I used a "Dry lining" blade to trowel on the filler and a
heated (to ease spreading) an 8 foot length of extruded "H" section
alloy to level the filler down to the fences.
After a few months curing, I peeled off the electrical tape to reveal
the profile surface and then used a giant home made vacuum "Air Spline"
to gently flatten the surface back until it just touched the reference
fences. In this way, I used (and wasted) the least amount of filler.
I filled both wings, flaps, ailerons rudder and tail surfaces.
Nigel
On 10/01/2013 21:44, Fred Klein wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2012, at 12:50 AM, <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
> <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I too have had great results with SuperFil, though the downside is
>> cost.
>
> Nigel...have you kept track of total quantity of SuperFil used?...on
> Classic? or XS?...jus curious, Fred
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Grounding & Fuelling |
Bud,
Thanks for clarifying your rules for fuelling - vital review!
I have a question related to same. My Europa has a 2inch
aluminium fuelling inlet ('cobra' I think is a term), all the way from the
fuelling cap to the tank inlet. I want to ground the aircraft for fuelling
of course and the other components, but am not sure if there isn't a
grounding route already established.
Can I install a grounding bib on the outside of the fuselage,
well away from but electrically connected to the 2inch tube in addition to
any previous route? Would there be a static disparity twixt that and the
aircraft ground structure?
Cheers, Ferg
Message 3
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| Subject: | Flying near Cb's |
I've had a few Cb strikes, mostly on large aircraft, and
essentially inconsequential, but few strikes on smaller machines
(SHJ/Harvard/T6 style).
The discussion about distance seems fairly consistent regarding
a ten mile distance, with one exception. The transfer of energy seems
maximum when the state change takes place - at about the (summer) freezing
level. Inside the chimney, the greatest disparity occurs about 17k to 19k -
just where the smaller transports fly. I made it a rule to give Old Stormy
at least 25 miles avoidance at that level because he can reach out a goodly
distance - and has.
Of course we had the advantage of radar to judge distances (and
cloud climb rates), but I know the glider-wing group are flying at similar
levels and composite aircraft are not friendly to large electrical
discharges.
Cheers, Ferg
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding & Fuelling |
On 01/11/2013 04:26 PM, f.kyle@sympatico.ca wrote:
> Can I install a grounding bib on the outside of the
> fuselage, well away from but electrically connected to the 2inch tube in
> addition to any previous route?
If you start grounding components in direct contact with fuel, you have
to ground them ALL. Otherwise a non-grounded metal piece (in contact
with the fuel) will discharge itself to the grounded piece, sparking
inside the fuel enclosure.
So, do not ground anything in contact with the fuel, or, if you do, then
ground everything in contact with the fuel. (This includes the fuel
vents, which may become electrically charged and try to relieve
themselves via the fuel to your grounded cobra).
Probably safest would be a metal wire inside the tank, running from the
inlet to the outlet, making contact with all metal parts in between,
have one side connected to the engine and the other side to the fuel
filler opening.
Or just don't ground anything, so if there is an electric charge, it
won't find a path to ground via the fuel related components.
This is what I do: I have not grounded anything connected to the fuel.
Before I refill, I use a wet rag (or my bare hands) to wipe off the fuel
filler opening, then I place one hand on the wetted surface, and in the
other hand I have the fuel nozzle, and with both hands connected I bring
the fuel nozzle in contact with the fuel filler opening.
If there is any electrical charge between the nozzle and the fuel filler
opening, it will relieve itself via my body instead of via the fuel.
As the aircraft is made of non-conductive material, any grounding
efforts are bound to fail. Electrical charge will easily build up near
the fuel filler opening, despite any efforts to ground individual parts.
The only way to get rid of local charges on a non-conductive material is
to wipe it off with something conductive; wet rags or body parts suffice.
Frans
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Power loss and Inspecting comments |
Roland,
On an open trailer, it is no different than fuelling a bowzer (large
tank) on a trailer. If the bowzer is grounded to the trailer, it is
grounded to the tow vehicle and fueling is as safe as fuelling your auto
using acceptable methods. See some interesting videos on: U tube by
just searching static electricity fuelling. Some things look dumb, but
static electricity sparks come from the fuel moving through a nozzle, a
vehicle rolling on a road, an aircraft flying or a silk blouse rubbing
across a velour seat cover then touching the fuel nozzle or tank inlet.
For your towed aircraft, the trailer should be grounded to the towing
vehicle but the aircraft may not be grounded to the trailer. If the
aircraft is not grounded to the trailer, ground your aircraft to the
trailer, then it is as safe as fuelling your auto can be.
If the mono trailer is used, the gear arm is in contact with the ramp
which is a pretty good ground. However, the gear frame really does not
attach to the outer skin anywhere to my knowledge as it bolts internally
and the firewall contacts the frame, but is painted and inside the cowl.
The engine is directly connected to the frame. A short ground strap
to the tailpipe would be just the ticket. Many fliers use a wire cable
attached to a hook and winch to pull the aircraft on the trailer, so the
mono's rear wheel should suffice. Just put your hand on the gas station
pump outside or nozzle, touch the metal trailer frame and then pull the
nozzle and touch the cap ring and and you should have a neutral charge.
This is probably what you are doing now and just don't realize it.
On my trailer for my trigear I have cables around the main gear disk
brakes which strap down the aircraft to the floor and are grounded.
However, I still fuel with the aircraft on the ground not on the trailer
using a Jerry Can rather than with the plane on the trailer from the
pump, which seems to be so popular in Europe.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Roland<mailto:schmidtroland@web.de>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 5:51 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Power loss and Inspecting comments
<schmidtroland@web.de<mailto:schmidtroland@web.de>>
Hi Bud,
how about refueling the Europa on a trailer at the gas station (I
climb onto the trailer with the petrol nozzle)?
This should be no problem, right?
Thanks!
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS Trigear 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391794#391794<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391794#391794>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding & Fuelling |
Ferg,
Gary Leinberger may have the best photo's of how I do it. Gary wanted
the fuelling inlet to be grounded well so I put a small screw into his
aluminum inlet filler neck and a wire down and around the Cobra to the
main battery ground. My aircraft are normally fitted with an external
jack for recharging and jumping near the battery. The Anderson Power
Products plugs I use are in contact with the exterior skin so the skin,
fuel filler neck and engine are all on the same plane. When fuelling,
the grounding cable is attached to the tail pipe.
So with an aluminum cobra, just wrap a wire around that or a #4 = 40
screw tapped in the neck and Redux sealed, the run a bit of #18 wire to
the ground of the aircraft should do it quite cheaply, easy and soundly.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: f.kyle@sympatico.ca<mailto:f.kyle@sympatico.ca>
To: 5EUROPALIST <mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 10:26 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Grounding & Fuelling
Bud,
Thanks for clarifying your rules for fuelling - vital
review!
I have a question related to same. My Europa has a 2inch
aluminium fuelling inlet ('cobra' I think is a term), all the way from
the fuelling cap to the tank inlet. I want to ground the aircraft for
fuelling of course and the other components, but am not sure if there
isn't a grounding route already established.
Can I install a grounding bib on the outside of the
fuselage, well away from but electrically connected to the 2inch tube in
addition to any previous route? Would there be a static disparity twixt
that and the aircraft ground structure?
Cheers, Ferg
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Flying near Cb's |
Good advice.
Aircraft are just a static electricity jumper for cloud to cloud or
cloud to ground. And the effects of the strikes vary widely, making it
difficult to predict what he damage could be, so avoid buildups is a
sound practice. Too bad our soaring brothers must take such a risk to
get a bit of lift.
Regards again,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: f.kyle@sympatico.ca<mailto:f.kyle@sympatico.ca>
To: 5EUROPALIST <mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 10:37 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Flying near Cb's
I've had a few Cb strikes, mostly on large aircraft,
and
essentially inconsequential, but few strikes on smaller machines
(SHJ/Harvard/T6 style).
The discussion about distance seems fairly consistent
regarding
a ten mile distance, with one exception. The transfer of energy seems
maximum when the state change takes place - at about the (summer)
freezing
level. Inside the chimney, the greatest disparity occurs about 17k to
19k -
just where the smaller transports fly. I made it a rule to give Old
Stormy
at least 25 miles avoidance at that level because he can reach out a
goodly
distance - and has.
Of course we had the advantage of radar to judge distances
(and
cloud climb rates), but I know the glider-wing group are flying at
similar
levels and composite aircraft are not friendly to large electrical
discharges.
Cheers, Ferg
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