Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:33 AM - Trailer regulations in UK (Richard Lamprey)
2. 01:10 AM - Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? (Duncan & Ami)
3. 01:17 AM - Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? (Gerry Holland)
4. 01:45 AM - Re: Trailer regulations in UK (David Watts)
5. 01:51 AM - Re: PLBs (Remi Guerner)
6. 02:15 AM - Re: Grounding & Fuelling (Frans Veldman)
7. 02:23 AM - Re: Trailer regulations in UK (Frans Veldman)
8. 02:39 AM - Re: Re: PLBs (David Joyce)
9. 02:55 AM - Re: Trailer regulations in UK (David Watts)
10. 04:10 AM - Re: Trailer regulations in UK (Frans Veldman)
11. 04:25 AM - Re: Trailer regulations in UK (David Joyce)
12. 04:40 AM - Re: Trailer regulations in UK (David Watts)
13. 09:07 AM - Re: wings removed for first annual whats the trick for refitting (graeme bird)
14. 10:40 AM - Re: Trailer regulations in UK (David Joyce)
15. 12:30 PM - Re: Trailer regulations in UK (David Watts)
16. 01:13 PM - Re: Grounding & Fuelling (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
17. 04:51 PM - Re: Grounding & Fuelling (Bud Yerly)
18. 04:57 PM - Re: Grounding & Fuelling (Bud Yerly)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Trailer regulations in UK |
Good morning all,
Does anyone have info for regulations about trailers in UK, eg for a Europa? Does
it have to be made/ constructed by some company, up to British Standard xxxxxd.
Or can I stick it together in my backyard, bolt on some lights at the
back, and get going. And to register ? New number plates, or those of the car
that pulls it?
So, if I had a trailer made here in Kenya by a very good Kenya manufacturer, shipped
my Europa (Classic) back to UK in it, in a 20' container, what sort of problems
will come at me at the UK end when I try to put it on the road?
Obviously the problems of UK/LAA certification of the Europa itself will be of
an entirely different order, but lets start with the trailer!
Best
Richard
Kenya, reg 5Y-LRY
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392154#392154
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| Subject: | Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? |
<<..it's because the filler
continued to shrink after they were painted.>>
Yes it does, and the fabric weave started to print through on the finished
surface of mine after about 5 years, even after 12 months of original filler
curing in continuous warm dry conditions.
Otherwise, I don't think the blue foam is that stable either, particularly
where there's only about 1/2" under the skin.
Poly Fiber's Smooth Prime (in passing and for the continued avoidance of
doubt) is a disaster and should be avoided.
Note to Polyfiber if you're listening: please try suing me for internet
deformation (you'll lose), or pay for a refinish!
Duncan McF.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk
Sent: 30 December 2012 08:50
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL?
SP106?
A good bit of advice from Craig and Bud.
All resins continue to cure (allbeit very slowly) over the years and as they
do, they shrink a little The longer you can leave it between filling and
sanding, the better the finish you will achieve. If you have ever walked
down a flight line of Europas and noticed the clear outline of spars and
ribs in the beautifully painted wing surfaces, it's because the filler
contined to shrink after they were painted.
If (like me) your build extends to years rather than months, you could fill
the wings (as per Bud's instructions) and simply leave them and move onto
other tasks before returning to flattening and painting. I left mine for
over six months.
I too have had great results with SuperFil, though the downside is cost.
Happy New Year to everyone
Nigel
----- Original Message -----
From: "craig" <craigb@onthenet.com.au>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:17 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL?
SP106?
>
> As always great advice from bud, one thing I found when doing my
> tailplanes
> was that it seems much easier to
> Sand if the filler is left for a few days or more to cure.
>
> Sanding a few hours after cure using RADID hardener seemed very hard
> work, paper continually clogging But the same surface a couple of days
> later was much better, and no clogging
>
> Good luck
>
> craig
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? |
Three Weetabix this morning Duncan?
Gerry
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| Subject: | Trailer regulations in UK |
Richard,
In the UK I have built a lot of trailers over the years for myself (well
over 10, in fact I have 4 in use at the moment).
Anybody can build a trailer in the UK and it doesn't have to be registered
or insured. It will use the cars registration when on the road.
The requirements are:-
You must use UK approved suspension units.
You must use a UK approved coupling.
If it is over 750Kg it must have brakes and the brakes must have auto
reversing mechanism.
It must have light, number plate and triangles showing at the rear.
Max weight cannot exceed 3.5 tons authough the tow car may have lower
restrictions.
Max width and length are somewhere around 9ft and 23ft (I can't remember the
exact dimensions as they are under what I usually build, although I did
build a 22ft 10inch trailer once, which was right on the limit) These
dimensions can be exceeded if the load is indivisible.
I think I have covered most of the required points, but let me know if you
want any more.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY (Hoping that I can fly again one day if the runway ever dries out
after all the rain we have had)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Lamprey
Sent: 13 January 2013 08:32
Subject: Europa-List: Trailer regulations in UK
<lamprey.richard@gmail.com>
Good morning all,
Does anyone have info for regulations about trailers in UK, eg for a Europa?
Does it have to be made/ constructed by some company, up to British Standard
xxxxxd. Or can I stick it together in my backyard, bolt on some lights at
the back, and get going. And to register ? New number plates, or those of
the car that pulls it?
So, if I had a trailer made here in Kenya by a very good Kenya manufacturer,
shipped my Europa (Classic) back to UK in it, in a 20' container, what sort
of problems will come at me at the UK end when I try to put it on the road?
Obviously the problems of UK/LAA certification of the Europa itself will be
of an entirely different order, but lets start with the trailer!
Best
Richard
Kenya, reg 5Y-LRY
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392154#392154
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Hi David,
Attached is the official publication regarding ELT and PLBs requirements in France.
The yellow highlighted lines say : all aircraft must carry an ELT or PLB
except for CNRA, CDNR, CNRAC, CNSK et ULM . That means that french homebuilts,
orphans and microlights are not required to carry a PLB or ELT. So the question
is whether or not a foreign Permit aircraft is to be considered as an equivalent
of one of those french restricted certificates. I am afraid the answer
depends on the gendarme ! To any Europa pilot who would be tentatively fined
in France for not carrying a PLB I would suggest to say : this is a kit built
aircraft equivalent to a french CNSK. Therefore, according to Arrt du 26 mars
2008 I am not required to carry a PLB or ELT .
That said I believe having a PLB on board is a good thing.
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392159#392159
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/arrt_du_26032008_balises_406_mhz_109.doc
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding & Fuelling |
On 01/13/2013 02:02 AM, Bud Yerly wrote:
> Since auto's with plastic tanks have the fuel grounded to the vehicle
> ground via the fuel pumps, and the capacitance probe, injectors, fuel
> regulators, etc. Your point of ground of the whole fuel system is
> already accomplished by the engine fuel systems in our aircraft, just as
> in the autos.
You seem to assume (know?) that fuel is conductive. I'm pretty sure
however that fuel is quite a good isolator, just like the rest of the
carbohydrate family members. So, various components in contact with the
fuel may carry a different electrical charge and will not relieve
themselves via the fuel. It is entirely possible that the skin around
the fuel filler opening has a neutral electrical charge, while the
aluminium elbow carries a static charge. Now you think since you have
grounded the skin, engine, fuel nozzle/can and your body that nothing
can happen, but at the moment you insert a long fuel nozzle deeply and
it gets far enough to get close to the elbow the static charge of the
elbow might relieve itself to the fuel nozzle with a spark.
Ok, so grounding the aluminium elbow sounds like a good idea?
Unfortunately this creates a new problem:
Fuel itself may become electrically charged due to sloshing and friction
within the plastic tank. Imagine what will happen when you pour fresh
fuel in and the fuel level of the electrically charged fuel starts
rising, slowly approaching the grounded elbow...
I think you can't really solve this problem in a plastic aircraft with a
plastic fuel tank carrying non-conductive fluids. It looks to me that
you either should try to ground every individual component in contact
with the fuel and run a metal wire through the tank so all the fuel
molecules frequently run into the wire and discharge themselves before
they reach the sparking level potential, or, to accept that the whole
system may carry a charge but as long as it has nowhere to go there is
no sparking risk, i.e. do not ground anything in contact with the fuel.
Except for the fuel filler opening, but since it is plastic just a wipe
with a wet rag accomplishes this task. Never insert a hose or something
deeply inside the fuel filler opening. Although it sounds scary: The
fuel itself is not conductive so you can pour neutral fuel from a
grounded nozzle into a static charged tank without a problem, as long as
there are no grounded objects (like the elbow) to cause sparks when the
fuel level starts rising.
> Problem is with the trailered aircraft.
We carry our Europa home after every local flight and we always refuel
at the local gas station while trailering to the airfield. We think it
is nearly impossible to refuel without making contact with the trailer,
various aircraft parts, the fuel opening and the fuel nozzle. It is
usually my wife who climbs onto the trailer (her belly is flatter than
mine so she just squeezes herself between the wing and the fuselage) to
reach the fuel opening and by the time she is in position I step on the
fender of the trailer and hand over the fuel nozzle over the wing flap,
my next task is holding on to the fuel hose to keep it from pulling on
the nozzle while reading out the liters on the display so my wife knows
when to stop. It would be very hard to accomplish the refueling
procedure without making solid contact with all the aircraft, trailer,
fuel nozzle, etc parts. Also keep in mind that we live in a very "wet"
country with high humidity levels being the norm, and static charge is
quite unlikely to build up on vehicles (except for rubbing certain
clothes against the upholstery while sitting in the car, but this
usually relieves itself while getting out of the car -ouch- before you
can even approach the fuel related objects)
When we fly to drier climates we usually leave the trailer behind as it
is too heavy to keep it strapped to the aircraft. ;-) so we never find
ourselves in a situation where we have to refuel a trailered Europa in a
very dry environment.
> Gas Stations use valves with cutoffs to allow the grounded fuel line to
> be placed into a vehicles open hole by a woman wearing a static
> generating outfit in reasonable safety providing she stays in contact
> with the nozzle at all times... The person can not lose contact with
> the nozzle and vehicle skin during the fuelling.
In the Netherlands (but probably entire Europe) you can't lock the fuel
nozzle in the open position. You have to keep squeezing until the tank
if full. This ensures the person stays in contact with the fuel nozzle
all the time. Of course you can walk away but this would be pointless
because the fuel flow stops the very moment you loose contact with the
thing.
> Your wet rag idea is great, if you have really dry hands or are messy
> like me.
I have to add that the "wet rag" is usually not purposedly wetted, but
we always carry a rag in the airplane which we use to dry the airplane
from condensation in the morning, and to clean the windshield from bugs.
The rag usually stays wet during the entire multiple day travel,
especially because we keep the rag in a plastic bag to keep the interior
as dry as possible. Usually it is much more difficult to find a dry rag
than to find a wet rag. ;-) We use the very same rag to wipe off the
skin around the fuel opening before opening it.
Frans
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| Subject: | Re: Trailer regulations in UK |
On 01/13/2013 09:32 AM, Richard Lamprey wrote:
> Does anyone have info for regulations about trailers in UK, eg for a
> Europa?
Unfortunately every country in Europe has its own rules. For me in the
Netherlands it is impossible to get the UK-trailer registered. Luckily
it is allowed to carry the number plates of the car on the trailer,
provided the total loaded weight of the trailer does not exceed 750
Kg's. (Yes I know it is a bit heavier than this, but I think it is close
enough to talk my way out of it and in the few years I have trailered
the aircraft back and forth to the airfield for every trip nobody has
ever questioned about it).
Frans
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Remi, Many thanks . You are a star! David Joyce, G-XSDJ
On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 01:51:40 -0800
"Remi Guerner" <air.guerner@orange.fr> wrote:
><air.guerner@orange.fr>
>
> Hi David,
> Attached is the official publication regarding ELT and
>PLBs requirements in France. The yellow highlighted lines
>say : all aircraft must carry an ELT or PLB except for
>CNRA, CDNR, CNRAC, CNSK et ULM . That means that
>french homebuilts, orphans and microlights are not
>required to carry a PLB or ELT. So the question is
>whether or not a foreign Permit aircraft is to be
>considered as an equivalent of one of those french
>restricted certificates. I am afraid the answer depends
>on the gendarme ! To any Europa pilot who would be
>tentatively fined in France for not carrying a PLB I
>would suggest to say : this is a kit built aircraft
>equivalent to a french CNSK. Therefore, according to
>Arrt du 26 mars 2008 I am not required to carry a
>PLB or ELT .
> That said I believe having a PLB on board is a good
>thing.
> Remi Guerner
>F-PGKL
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392159#392159
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/arrt_du_26032008_balises_406_mhz_109.doc
>
>
>
>
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>Admin.
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Trailer regulations in UK |
Hi Frans,
You say that you are over the 750Kg weight limit. That is a surprise.
Assuming your empty aircraft with full fuel is somewhere around 450Kg (not
unreasonable I would think), that leaves 300Kg for the trailer. Even for a
fully enclosed trailer (as I have) that seems rather a lot. Mind you I do
get very obsessive about building light, whatever I am building.
Dave Watts
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans Veldman
Sent: 13 January 2013 10:23
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trailer regulations in UK
On 01/13/2013 09:32 AM, Richard Lamprey wrote:
> Does anyone have info for regulations about trailers in UK, eg for a
> Europa?
Unfortunately every country in Europe has its own rules. For me in the
Netherlands it is impossible to get the UK-trailer registered. Luckily
it is allowed to carry the number plates of the car on the trailer,
provided the total loaded weight of the trailer does not exceed 750
Kg's. (Yes I know it is a bit heavier than this, but I think it is close
enough to talk my way out of it and in the few years I have trailered
the aircraft back and forth to the airfield for every trip nobody has
ever questioned about it).
Frans
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| Subject: | Re: Trailer regulations in UK |
On 01/13/2013 11:55 AM, David Watts wrote:
> You say that you are over the 750Kg weight limit. That is a surprise.
I have put my empty trailer on an agricultural weight scale, and the
receipt said that it was 420 Kg's. Of course they usually measure the
amount of fertilizer loaded in a tractor which is a much higher weight
so the scale might be a little bit less precise on the lower end, but it
didn't look unreasonable to me. (Note that this is a trailer for a tri
gear, so it has a twin axle).
I just found the Europa Tri-gear Trailer Specification (the attached
file was rejected by Matronics) it says the empty weight is 360Kg. As I
have added boxes for the tail planes, a winch plus battery, spare wheel,
and some other goodies it might weight close to 420 Kg's after all. I
wish my Europa was only 330 Kg's but it is a tad heavier than that.
Frans
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Trailer regulations in UK |
Frans, Googling UK Towing Regulations gets you to
www.solentribster.com/towing_requirements.htm which nicely
summarises UK regs. There is no stipulated National limit
for the weight a car can tow. The limit is set by the
manufacturer and varies with the car. There is a
stipulation that if the trailer weight exceeds 750kg then
the trailer must have a braking system, but I cannot
imagine any plane trailer would be made without an
over-ride system.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 13:09:38 +0100
Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl> wrote:
><frans@privatepilots.nl>
>
> On 01/13/2013 11:55 AM, David Watts wrote:
>
>> You say that you are over the 750Kg weight limit. That
>>is a surprise.
>
> I have put my empty trailer on an agricultural weight
>scale, and the
> receipt said that it was 420 Kg's. Of course they
>usually measure the
> amount of fertilizer loaded in a tractor which is a much
>higher weight
> so the scale might be a little bit less precise on the
>lower end, but it
> didn't look unreasonable to me. (Note that this is a
>trailer for a tri
> gear, so it has a twin axle).
>
> I just found the Europa Tri-gear Trailer Specification
>(the attached
> file was rejected by Matronics) it says the empty weight
>is 360Kg. As I
> have added boxes for the tail planes, a winch plus
>battery, spare wheel,
> and some other goodies it might weight close to 420 Kg's
>after all. I
> wish my Europa was only 330 Kg's but it is a tad heavier
>than that.
>
>Frans
>
>
>
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>Admin.
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Trailer regulations in UK |
David,
You say that you cannot imagine a plane trailer without an over-ride
system, buty the standard factory monowheel trailer has no brakes and it
seems to tow fine by all accounts.
Dave Watts, G-BXDY
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce
Sent: 13 January 2013 12:24
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trailer regulations in UK
Frans, Googling UK Towing Regulations gets you to
www.solentribster.com/towing_requirements.htm which nicely
summarises UK regs. There is no stipulated National limit
for the weight a car can tow. The limit is set by the
manufacturer and varies with the car. There is a
stipulation that if the trailer weight exceeds 750kg then
the trailer must have a braking system, but I cannot
imagine any plane trailer would be made without an
over-ride system.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 13:09:38 +0100
Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl> wrote:
><frans@privatepilots.nl>
>
> On 01/13/2013 11:55 AM, David Watts wrote:
>
>> You say that you are over the 750Kg weight limit. That
>>is a surprise.
>
> I have put my empty trailer on an agricultural weight
>scale, and the
> receipt said that it was 420 Kg's. Of course they
>usually measure the
> amount of fertilizer loaded in a tractor which is a much
>higher weight
> so the scale might be a little bit less precise on the
>lower end, but it
> didn't look unreasonable to me. (Note that this is a
>trailer for a tri
> gear, so it has a twin axle).
>
> I just found the Europa Tri-gear Trailer Specification
>(the attached
> file was rejected by Matronics) it says the empty weight
>is 360Kg. As I
> have added boxes for the tail planes, a winch plus
>battery, spare wheel,
> and some other goodies it might weight close to 420 Kg's
>after all. I
> wish my Europa was only 330 Kg's but it is a tad heavier
>than that.
>
>Frans
>
>
>
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>Admin.
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: wings removed for first annual whats the trick for refitting |
Thanks for the responses . I don't have an open trailer so its on the ground. I
found the problem this afternoon, it was the top hat washer on the end of the
spar catching on the steel guide. Filed the entry edge and greased it slightly
to smooth the entry and it went together ok.
I had fitted marks for alignment during the build.
Now at about 50hrs. Must try and fly the pants off it this year.
Regards Graeme
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 45 hours
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392185#392185
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| Subject: | Re: Trailer regulations in UK |
David, you are right but it probably weighs very little or
at least not enough to exceed the limit with an average
Europa.
On another tack, are you contemplating a
Laddingford fly in this year?
Regards, David Joyce, G - XSDJ
On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:39:47 -0000
"David Watts" <dg.watts@talktalk.net> wrote:
><dg.watts@talktalk.net>
>
> David,
>
> You say that you cannot imagine a plane trailer without
>an over-ride
> system, buty the standard factory monowheel trailer has
>no brakes and it
> seems to tow fine by all accounts.
>
> Dave Watts, G-BXDY
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On
>Behalf Of David Joyce
> Sent: 13 January 2013 12:24
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trailer regulations in UK
>
><davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
>Frans, Googling UK Towing Regulations gets you to
> www.solentribster.com/towing_requirements.htm which
>nicely
> summarises UK regs. There is no stipulated National
>limit
> for the weight a car can tow. The limit is set by the
> manufacturer and varies with the car. There is a
> stipulation that if the trailer weight exceeds 750kg
>then
> the trailer must have a braking system, but I cannot
> imagine any plane trailer would be made without an
> over-ride system.
> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>
>
> On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 13:09:38 +0100
> Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl> wrote:
>><frans@privatepilots.nl>
>>
>> On 01/13/2013 11:55 AM, David Watts wrote:
>>
>>> You say that you are over the 750Kg weight limit. That
>>>is a surprise.
>>
>> I have put my empty trailer on an agricultural weight
>>scale, and the
>> receipt said that it was 420 Kg's. Of course they
>>usually measure the
>> amount of fertilizer loaded in a tractor which is a much
>>higher weight
>> so the scale might be a little bit less precise on the
>>lower end, but it
>> didn't look unreasonable to me. (Note that this is a
>>trailer for a tri
>> gear, so it has a twin axle).
>>
>> I just found the Europa Tri-gear Trailer Specification
>>(the attached
>> file was rejected by Matronics) it says the empty weight
>>is 360Kg. As I
>> have added boxes for the tail planes, a winch plus
>>battery, spare wheel,
>> and some other goodies it might weight close to 420 Kg's
>>after all. I
>> wish my Europa was only 330 Kg's but it is a tad heavier
>>than that.
>>
>>Frans
>>
>>
>>
>>Un/Subscription,
>>Forums!
>>Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>Admin.
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Trailer regulations in UK |
Hi David,
Yes we are and I think Peter Kember will be contacting you shortly about it
as we have only discussed it in the last 2 days. The date will be 17th
August with a rain date of 18th.
Dave.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce
Sent: 13 January 2013 18:40
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trailer regulations in UK
David, you are right but it probably weighs very little or
at least not enough to exceed the limit with an average
Europa.
On another tack, are you contemplating a
Laddingford fly in this year?
Regards, David Joyce, G - XSDJ
On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 12:39:47 -0000
"David Watts" <dg.watts@talktalk.net> wrote:
><dg.watts@talktalk.net>
>
> David,
>
> You say that you cannot imagine a plane trailer without
>an over-ride
> system, buty the standard factory monowheel trailer has
>no brakes and it
> seems to tow fine by all accounts.
>
> Dave Watts, G-BXDY
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On
>Behalf Of David Joyce
> Sent: 13 January 2013 12:24
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trailer regulations in UK
>
><davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
>Frans, Googling UK Towing Regulations gets you to
> www.solentribster.com/towing_requirements.htm which
>nicely
> summarises UK regs. There is no stipulated National
>limit
> for the weight a car can tow. The limit is set by the
> manufacturer and varies with the car. There is a
> stipulation that if the trailer weight exceeds 750kg
>then
> the trailer must have a braking system, but I cannot
> imagine any plane trailer would be made without an
> over-ride system.
> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>
>
> On Sun, 13 Jan 2013 13:09:38 +0100
> Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl> wrote:
>><frans@privatepilots.nl>
>>
>> On 01/13/2013 11:55 AM, David Watts wrote:
>>
>>> You say that you are over the 750Kg weight limit. That
>>>is a surprise.
>>
>> I have put my empty trailer on an agricultural weight
>>scale, and the
>> receipt said that it was 420 Kg's. Of course they
>>usually measure the
>> amount of fertilizer loaded in a tractor which is a much
>>higher weight
>> so the scale might be a little bit less precise on the
>>lower end, but it
>> didn't look unreasonable to me. (Note that this is a
>>trailer for a tri
>> gear, so it has a twin axle).
>>
>> I just found the Europa Tri-gear Trailer Specification
>>(the attached
>> file was rejected by Matronics) it says the empty weight
>>is 360Kg. As I
>> have added boxes for the tail planes, a winch plus
>>battery, spare wheel,
>> and some other goodies it might weight close to 420 Kg's
>>after all. I
>> wish my Europa was only 330 Kg's but it is a tad heavier
>>than that.
>>
>>Frans
>>
>>
>>
>>Un/Subscription,
>>Forums!
>>Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>Admin.
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding & Fuelling |
Bud & Frans=0AI still believe the urethane breather tube is a static genera
tor, especially the 1/4" dia. one because air and fuel droplets are rushing
=0Aup it during refueling, the vapour and droplets of fuel are charged up w
hen the exit the breather. Nearest relief point to ground is your hand.=0AI
always fitted a 3/8" D aluminum breather which makes refueling easier too.
=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Bud Yerly <budy
erly@msn.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 13 January 2
013, 1:02=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Grounding & Fuelling=0A =0A=0A =0AFra
ns,=0AI agree.- I believe that the wet rag idea is the same as touching w
ith =0Ayour bare hand and then touching your grounded Jerry Can or filling
station =0Anozzle completes the neutralization of the static charge differe
nce.- =0A-=0ASince auto's with plastic tanks have the fuel grounded to
the-vehicle =0Aground-via the fuel pumps, and the capacitance probe, in
jectors, fuel =0Aregulators, etc.- Your point of ground of the whole fuel
system is already =0Aaccomplished by the engine fuel systems in our aircra
ft, just-as in the =0Aautos.- I too did not make an electrical-connec
tion between my cap and =0Athe ground system because we are just a big plas
tic tank with static electricity =0Aaround the outside, and-the fuel in t
he tank is grounded to the engine and =0Athe ground of the aircraft.- Spa
rks jumping should be easily controlled by =0Agrounding the frame of the en
gine (the fuel itself) to the earth and then =0Aearthing yourself (via your
wet hand) to the side of the aircraft and then to =0Athe Jerry Can which i
s setting on the ground.- All-components and =0Ayourself are now-at a
n equal charge state, or close enough, to not jump a =0Aspark.- =0A-=0A
Problem is with the trailered aircraft.- When moving the nozzle from =0Ao
ne vehicle to another you have lost contact with the vehicle and trailer, s
o =0Aone must reestablish the neutral charge by touching the trailer with a
hand, =0Athen the plane to the trailer.--It is an academic exercise
=0Ato-assume that the vehicle,-trailer and yourself-are of the same
=0Acharge state (grounded) unless a metal strap was attached to the frame a
nd drags =0Aon the ground and the plane is grounded to the trailer.- The
National =0ATransportation directives have been changed years ago deleting
the =0Agrounding-of fuelling vehicles-with chains hanging on the =0Agro
und.- Re-fuelling vehicles use grounding cables to accomplish =0Athis.-
=0A-=0ABackground:=0AGas Stations use valves with cutoffs to allow the g
rounded fuel line to be =0Aplaced into a vehicles open hole by a woman wear
ing a static generating outfit =0Ain reasonable safety providing she stays
in contact with the nozzle at all =0Atimes...--The person can not lose
contact with the nozzle and vehicle =0Askin during the fuelling.- If they
do, one can expect upon return to the =0Anozzle, there is a high probabili
ty of a spark being generated (as in those =0AU-Tube videos).- The operat
ion is only safe because the act of the person =0Acontacting the hose nozzl
e-grounds the person to the fuel pump and earth, =0Athe fuel door is open
ed and the nozzle is placed into the vehicle fuel =0Areceptacle (neutralizi
ng the charge)-then the fuel trigger is pulled.- =0AThe vapor exiting t
he vehicle during fuelling has no source of ignition (unless =0Athe person
loses contact with the vehicle and nozzle).--Back =0Ato the aircraft on
the trailer, if the re-fuel person was inattentive, =0Adoing the fuelling
and the fuel nozzle was removed from-the =0Atow-vehicle, say after fuel
ling the car, then the person jumped up on the =0Atrailer to fuel the plane
, as long as he touched the trailer by hand and then =0Athe aircraft to ope
n the cap, while holding the-fuel nozzle, he again has =0Aneutralized the
ground and has reasonable expectations of safe fuelling. =0A-=0ABottom l
ine:- Use your body as a conduit when fuelling from a Jerry =0ACan.- Ne
ver fuel the can in the vehicle (as Graham pointed out, it develops =0Aits
own charge due to the fuel movement, sliding in the boot, etc.), put the ca
n =0Aon the ground then open it and then grab the fuel nozzle and begin fue
lling the =0Acan.- To fuel the aircraft, remove the can from the transpor
t vehicle and =0Aput the can on the ground, put your hand on the can and pl
ane and open the =0Aaircraft fuel cap, touch the aircraft and the can and l
ift to fuel or use your =0Ahand pump now to transfer fuel safely...=0A-
=0AYour wet rag idea is great, -if you have really dry hands or are messy
=0Alike me.=0A-=0ARegards,=0ABud=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From
: Frans Veldman =0A>To: europa-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Friday, Januar
y 11, 2013 12:38 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Grounding & Fuelling=0A>
l>=0A>=0A>On =0A 01/11/2013 04:26 PM, f.kyle@sympatico.ca wrote:=0A>=0A>>
------------ =0A Can I install a grounding bib on
the outside of the=0A>> fuselage, well =0A away from but electrically conn
ected to the 2inch tube in=0A>> addition to =0A any previous route?=0A>=0A
>If you start grounding components in direct contact =0A with fuel, you ha
ve=0A>to ground them ALL. Otherwise a non-grounded metal =0A piece (in con
tact=0A>with the fuel) will discharge itself to the grounded =0A piece, sp
arking=0A>inside the fuel enclosure.=0A>=0A>So, do not ground =0A anything
in contact with the fuel, or, if you do, then=0A>ground everything in =0A
contact with the fuel. (This includes the fuel=0A>vents, which may become
=0A electrically charged and try to relieve=0A>themselves via the fuel to
your =0A grounded cobra).=0A>=0A>Probably safest would be a metal wire ins
ide the tank, =0A running from the=0A>inlet to the outlet, making contact
with all metal parts =0A in between,=0A>have one side connected to the eng
ine and the other side to the =0A fuel=0A>filler opening.=0A>=0A>Or just d
on't ground anything, so if there is =0A an electric charge, it=0A>won't f
ind a path to ground via the fuel related =0A components.=0A>=0A>This is w
hat I do: I have not grounded anything connected =0A to the fuel.=0A>Befor
e I refill, I use a wet rag (or my bare hands) to wipe =0A off the fuel=0A
>filler opening, then I place one hand on the wetted surface, =0A and in t
he=0A>other hand I have the fuel nozzle, and with both hands connected =0A
I bring=0A>the fuel nozzle in contact with the fuel filler opening.=0A>=0A
>If =0A there is any electrical charge between the nozzle and the fuel =0A
filler=0A>opening, it will relieve itself via my body instead of via the
=0A fuel.=0A>=0A>As the aircraft is made of non-conductive material, any
=0A grounding=0A>efforts are bound to fail. Electrical charge will easily
build up =0A near=0A>the fuel filler opening, despite any efforts to groun
d individual =0A parts.=0A>The only way to get rid of local charges on a n
on-conductive =0A material is=0A>to wipe it off with something conductive;
wet rags or body =0A parts =0A --------- =0AFeatures
=0AChat, http://www.matronnbsp;--- =0Avia the Web =0Atitle=http://f
orums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.ma
tronics.com=0A>_p;-------- =0Agenerous =0A bsp;---
---------------- =0A title=http://www.ma
tronics.com/contribution =0A href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution
">http://www.matronics.com/c===============
====================
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding & Fuelling |
Frans,
Speaking from the US, the additives to the fuel here makes it a low
conductivity fluid. I don't recommend it, but aviation fuel
conductivity it is so low that you can hook a bulb with an attached bare
wire submerged in the fuel and then approach the bulb with the ground
wire and there will be no jump of electrical arc until virtual contact.
At 12 volts, it isn't a problem, but in 250 volt power fuel storage it
can arc.
Your point on the elbow is in error if the elbow is in contact with the
aluminum fuel cap ring as I understood the hookup was. The cap/aluminum
cobra neck will ground to earth through the wire to the aircraft ground
system. However you are exactly right if the plastic cobra is installed
and only the aluminum elbow connects the plastic cobra to the plastic
tank. Why do that at all? Now the nozzle has a path to arc if it
hasn't already as you indicated. Your are correct, it helps nothing
and can be a potential hazard...
Flowing and sloshing fuel would cause an electrical charge buildup while
fuel flows in during fuelling or sloshing, so when fuelling keep
yourself in contact with the aircraft skin and nozzle. As for sparking
with the nozzle in, if you have fuel flowing or not, if you leave the
handle and vehicle without re-grounding, you will potentially be
creating a discharge hazard.
My experience comes from an accident investigation of a fuelling
accident. The fuels engineers talked over my head (not hard to do) and
in a nutshell, JP-4 is a wide cut gasoline and had virtually nil
conductivity just like gasoline. However, moving to JP-8 the
conductivity jumped considerably screwing up all our fuel senders, and
in a shorted imbedded fuel pump, it was found that it would conduct over
a small distance (1/4 inch) and jump a spark at 250 volts. Normally
there was no damage even if it arced because of the imbedding of the
pump into the fuel and a virtual nil oxygen environment even at low fuel
levels... However with fuel sloshing (low fuel in the bulk tank), it
was enough to jump a spark. The spark arced a pin hole leak into a
corroding tank bottom near the pump (added iron sulfides was what they
found aided the arc). The pin hole leak provided a path for a discharge
from the short through the fuel stream to the ground, so that was their
cause... I still think it was the young airman and his cold weather
nylon coat that was the ignition source.
Later when the FAA was approving the STC of gasoline in aviation
engines, again we were fine until in California they had interesting
required additives for emissions. One was an iron carbide molecule that
with tolulene and other ionized cleaning additives screwed up the
capacitance probes, resistive senders and in tank fuel pumps shourted
out internally left and right. Then they required added ethanol (the
plague) and again, we had another measured jump in conductivity by a
factor of two, and the FAA stopped all auto fuel use in aircraft until
investigated. These government mandated changes in fuel caused small
increases in conductivity, but enough to cause the industry to change
its fuel refining requirements for California. We all know that the
difference in conductivity is enough to prevent capacitance systems from
maintaining their accuracy when changing from one fuel to another, or
simply one brand to another, but they no longer kill capacitance probes
any longer as in the 80's. The good news is SO CAL Transportation Dept
forced its own state government to cease further development of new
additives unless stringent tests were conducted and quality of the fuel
produced be monitored and tested carefully. As all our systems require
a very low conductivity to allow safe operation of submerged pumps, fuel
level senders etc. those of us pushing for auto fuel in our old low
octane aircraft engines, were pleased. Too bad ethanol is still with us
here in the States and ethanol free fuel is somewhat scarce.
So, do you have to run a wire anywhere inside the tank to ground our
fuel system...Like we both said...NO. I only stated that if the metal
ring on the outside of the aircraft fuel tank inlet, had a wire running
to ground, and the tailpipe is grounded to earth, the outside of the
aircraft should have the charge on the outside of the aircraft
dissipated to earth. Is it just as effective as putting ones ungloved
hand on the earth contacted fuel can and the aircraft using our somewhat
low conductivity body as a ground wire.
You know that the static electricity stays on the outside of a vessel,
and if a spark is going to jump it will most probably be caused by
static discharge to a ground such as a fuel nozzle from the outer skin
of the aircraft. The vapor around an open fuel tank then becomes a
hazard.
I agree that fuelling on a trailer is not a major concern except for the
guy in rubber soles being handed a fuel nozzle via gloved hand while
standing on the trailer in winter rubber boots in a cold weather
environment. Sparks will occur. Don't jump through hoops changing
the airplane, just be aware and dissipate your static charge before
opening the cap and putting the fuel nozzle to the filler neck...
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Frans Veldman<mailto:frans@privatepilots.nl>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Grounding & Fuelling
<frans@privatepilots.nl<mailto:frans@privatepilots.nl>>
On 01/13/2013 02:02 AM, Bud Yerly wrote:
> Since auto's with plastic tanks have the fuel grounded to the
vehicle
> ground via the fuel pumps, and the capacitance probe, injectors,
fuel
> regulators, etc. Your point of ground of the whole fuel system is
> already accomplished by the engine fuel systems in our aircraft,
just as
> in the autos.
You seem to assume (know?) that fuel is conductive. I'm pretty sure
however that fuel is quite a good isolator, just like the rest of the
carbohydrate family members. So, various components in contact with
the
fuel may carry a different electrical charge and will not relieve
themselves via the fuel. It is entirely possible that the skin around
the fuel filler opening has a neutral electrical charge, while the
aluminium elbow carries a static charge. Now you think since you have
grounded the skin, engine, fuel nozzle/can and your body that nothing
can happen, but at the moment you insert a long fuel nozzle deeply and
it gets far enough to get close to the elbow the static charge of the
elbow might relieve itself to the fuel nozzle with a spark.
Ok, so grounding the aluminium elbow sounds like a good idea?
Unfortunately this creates a new problem:
Fuel itself may become electrically charged due to sloshing and
friction
within the plastic tank. Imagine what will happen when you pour fresh
fuel in and the fuel level of the electrically charged fuel starts
rising, slowly approaching the grounded elbow...
I think you can't really solve this problem in a plastic aircraft with
a
plastic fuel tank carrying non-conductive fluids. It looks to me that
you either should try to ground every individual component in contact
with the fuel and run a metal wire through the tank so all the fuel
molecules frequently run into the wire and discharge themselves before
they reach the sparking level potential, or, to accept that the whole
system may carry a charge but as long as it has nowhere to go there is
no sparking risk, i.e. do not ground anything in contact with the
fuel.
Except for the fuel filler opening, but since it is plastic just a
wipe
with a wet rag accomplishes this task. Never insert a hose or
something
deeply inside the fuel filler opening. Although it sounds scary: The
fuel itself is not conductive so you can pour neutral fuel from a
grounded nozzle into a static charged tank without a problem, as long
as
there are no grounded objects (like the elbow) to cause sparks when
the
fuel level starts rising.
> Problem is with the trailered aircraft.
We carry our Europa home after every local flight and we always refuel
at the local gas station while trailering to the airfield. We think it
is nearly impossible to refuel without making contact with the
trailer,
various aircraft parts, the fuel opening and the fuel nozzle. It is
usually my wife who climbs onto the trailer (her belly is flatter than
mine so she just squeezes herself between the wing and the fuselage)
to
reach the fuel opening and by the time she is in position I step on
the
fender of the trailer and hand over the fuel nozzle over the wing
flap,
my next task is holding on to the fuel hose to keep it from pulling on
the nozzle while reading out the liters on the display so my wife
knows
when to stop. It would be very hard to accomplish the refueling
procedure without making solid contact with all the aircraft, trailer,
fuel nozzle, etc parts. Also keep in mind that we live in a very "wet"
country with high humidity levels being the norm, and static charge is
quite unlikely to build up on vehicles (except for rubbing certain
clothes against the upholstery while sitting in the car, but this
usually relieves itself while getting out of the car -ouch- before you
can even approach the fuel related objects)
When we fly to drier climates we usually leave the trailer behind as
it
is too heavy to keep it strapped to the aircraft. ;-) so we never find
ourselves in a situation where we have to refuel a trailered Europa in
a
very dry environment.
> Gas Stations use valves with cutoffs to allow the grounded fuel line
to
> be placed into a vehicles open hole by a woman wearing a static
> generating outfit in reasonable safety providing she stays in
contact
> with the nozzle at all times... The person can not lose contact
with
> the nozzle and vehicle skin during the fuelling.
In the Netherlands (but probably entire Europe) you can't lock the
fuel
nozzle in the open position. You have to keep squeezing until the tank
if full. This ensures the person stays in contact with the fuel nozzle
all the time. Of course you can walk away but this would be pointless
because the fuel flow stops the very moment you loose contact with the
thing.
> Your wet rag idea is great, if you have really dry hands or are
messy
> like me.
I have to add that the "wet rag" is usually not purposedly wetted, but
we always carry a rag in the airplane which we use to dry the airplane
from condensation in the morning, and to clean the windshield from
bugs.
The rag usually stays wet during the entire multiple day travel,
especially because we keep the rag in a plastic bag to keep the
interior
as dry as possible. Usually it is much more difficult to find a dry
rag
than to find a wet rag. ;-) We use the very same rag to wipe off the
skin around the fuel opening before opening it.
Frans
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding & Fuelling |
Graham,
You may be correct as flowing fluids make for a static source, but
still, the static should be discharged through the person fuelling to
ground provided he has made earth contact and contact with the aircraft.
If he loses contact during fuelling, he may build charge and has a
spark potential. Again, a self inflicted problem.
The larger breather vent is a good idea, especially in a tail dragger or
you will get wet on a rapid fuelling attempt.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: GRAHAM SINGLETON<mailto:grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Grounding & Fuelling
Bud & Frans
I still believe the urethane breather tube is a static generator,
especially the 1/4" dia. one because air and fuel droplets are rushing
up it during refueling, the vapour and droplets of fuel are charged up
when the exit the breather. Nearest relief point to ground is your hand.
I always fitted a 3/8" D aluminum breather which makes refueling
easier too.
Graham
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 1:02
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Grounding & Fuelling
Frans,
I agree. I believe that the wet rag idea is the same as touching with
your bare hand and then touching your grounded Jerry Can or filling
station nozzle completes the neutralization of the static charge
difference.
Since auto's with plastic tanks have the fuel grounded to the vehicle
ground via the fuel pumps, and the capacitance probe, injectors, fuel
regulators, etc. Your point of ground of the whole fuel system is
already accomplished by the engine fuel systems in our aircraft, just as
in the autos. I too did not make an electrical connection between my
cap and the ground system because we are just a big plastic tank with
static electricity around the outside, and the fuel in the tank is
grounded to the engine and the ground of the aircraft. Sparks jumping
should be easily controlled by grounding the frame of the engine (the
fuel itself) to the earth and then earthing yourself (via your wet hand)
to the side of the aircraft and then to the Jerry Can which is setting
on the ground. All components and yourself are now at an equal charge
state, or close enough, to not jump a spark.
Problem is with the trailered aircraft. When moving the nozzle from
one vehicle to another you have lost contact with the vehicle and
trailer, so one must reestablish the neutral charge by touching the
trailer with a hand, then the plane to the trailer. It is an academic
exercise to assume that the vehicle, trailer and yourself are of the
same charge state (grounded) unless a metal strap was attached to the
frame and drags on the ground and the plane is grounded to the trailer.
The National Transportation directives have been changed years ago
deleting the grounding of fuelling vehicles with chains hanging on the
ground. Re-fuelling vehicles use grounding cables to accomplish this.
Background:
Gas Stations use valves with cutoffs to allow the grounded fuel line
to be placed into a vehicles open hole by a woman wearing a static
generating outfit in reasonable safety providing she stays in contact
with the nozzle at all times... The person can not lose contact with
the nozzle and vehicle skin during the fuelling. If they do, one can
expect upon return to the nozzle, there is a high probability of a spark
being generated (as in those U-Tube videos). The operation is only safe
because the act of the person contacting the hose nozzle grounds the
person to the fuel pump and earth, the fuel door is opened and the
nozzle is placed into the vehicle fuel receptacle (neutralizing the
charge) then the fuel trigger is pulled. The vapor exiting the vehicle
during fuelling has no source of ignition (unless the person loses
contact with the vehicle and nozzle). Back to the aircraft on the
trailer, if the re-fuel person was inattentive, doing the fuelling and
the fuel nozzle was removed from the tow vehicle, say after fuelling the
car, then the person jumped up on the trailer to fuel the plane, as long
as he touched the trailer by hand and then the aircraft to open the cap,
while holding the fuel nozzle, he again has neutralized the ground and
has reasonable expectations of safe fuelling.
Bottom line: Use your body as a conduit when fuelling from a Jerry
Can. Never fuel the can in the vehicle (as Graham pointed out, it
develops its own charge due to the fuel movement, sliding in the boot,
etc.), put the can on the ground then open it and then grab the fuel
nozzle and begin fuelling the can. To fuel the aircraft, remove the can
from the transport vehicle and put the can on the ground, put your hand
on the can and plane and open the aircraft fuel cap, touch the aircraft
and the can and lift to fuel or use your hand pump now to transfer fuel
safely...
Your wet rag idea is great, if you have really dry hands or are messy
like me.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Frans Veldman<mailto:frans@privatepilots.nl>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Grounding & Fuelling
<frans@privatepilots.nl<mailto:frans@privatepilots.nl>>
On 01/11/2013 04:26 PM,
f.kyle@sympatico.ca<mailto:f.kyle@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Can I install a grounding bib on the outside of the
> fuselage, well away from but electrically connected to the 2inch
tube in
> addition to any previous route?
If you start grounding components in direct contact with fuel, you
have
to ground them ALL. Otherwise a non-grounded metal piece (in contact
with the fuel) will discharge itself to the grounded piece, sparking
inside the fuel enclosure.
So, do not ground anything in contact with the fuel, or, if you do,
then
ground everything in contact with the fuel. (This includes the fuel
vents, which may become electrically charged and try to relieve
themselves via the fuel to your grounded cobra).
Probably safest would be a metal wire inside the tank, running from
the
inlet to the outlet, making contact with all metal parts in between,
have one side connected to the engine and the other side to the fuel
filler opening.
Or just don't ground anything, so if there is an electric charge, it
won't find a path to ground via the fuel related components.
This is what I do: I have not grounded anything connected to the
fuel.
Before I refill, I use a wet rag (or my bare hands) to wipe off the
fuel
filler opening, then I place one hand on the wetted surface, and in
the
other hand I have the fuel nozzle, and with both hands connected I
bring
the fuel nozzle in contact with the fuel filler opening.
If there is any electrical charge between the nozzle and the fuel
filler
opening, it will relieve itself via my body instead of via the fuel.
As the aircraft is made of non-conductive material, any grounding
efforts are bound to fail. Electrical charge will easily build up
near
the fuel filler opening, despite any efforts to ground individual
parts.
The only way to get rid of local charges on a non-conductive
material is
to wipe it off with something conductive; wet rags or body parts
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