---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 02/07/13: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:43 AM - Re: Re: Fusalage fuel stains and gauges (Max Cointe) 2. 03:42 AM - Re: Oil tank breather separator (G-IANI) 3. 05:33 AM - Woodcomp Prop diameter (Europaul383) 4. 05:47 AM - Re: Woodcomp Prop diameter (Christoph Both) 5. 06:42 AM - Re: Woodcomp Prop diameter (Frans Veldman) 6. 07:10 AM - Re: Oil tank breather separator (Jeff B) 7. 07:54 AM - Re: Woodcomp Prop diameter (Europaul383) 8. 08:18 AM - Re: Re: Woodcomp Prop diameter (Frans Veldman) 9. 08:35 AM - Re: Oil tank breather separator (John Wigney) 10. 10:18 AM - Re: Oil tank breather separator (Tim Ward) 11. 10:35 AM - Re: Re: Woodcomp Prop diameter (David Joyce) 12. 10:55 AM - Re: Woodcomp Prop diameter (graeme bird) 13. 11:02 AM - permit form in - heralds a season of unusually good weather (graeme bird) 14. 11:46 AM - Re: Re: Woodcomp Prop diameter (Frans Veldman) 15. 12:47 PM - Re: Re: Woodcomp Prop diameter (David Joyce) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:30 AM PST US From: "Max Cointe" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Fusalage fuel stains and gauges Bud, FF sender : I forecast to install it this summer and I=92ll et you know. Hole in cap: this was just to limit the number of holes and length of tube for vent of the tank and the visual gauge. I would be really surprised that fuel goes out through this hole (BTW I am my mechanic J) Max Cointe mcointe@free.fr F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 450 hours F-PLDJ Dyn=92A=E9ro MCR 4S Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1550 heures ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:42:43 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Oil tank breather separator John, Bud I seem to remember that there was a lot of discussion of the best way to do this back in 2002-3. Attached is a picture of what I have been using on G-IANI (which is 914 powered but the same principles apply) for the last nine years. A simple open top bottle. It collects a little condensate (water) and a small amount of oil but never more that about 15mm between services. I have never experienced any oil staining round the bottle. The bottle, chosen for its size and shape, came from a Halfords break bleed kit and cost very little. One important point is not to have the end of the drain tube (or top of the bottle) in a low pressure area as this will make things worse. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 300hours Europa Club Mods Specialist e-mail g-iani@ntlworld.com From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly Sent: 07 February 2013 05:38 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil tank breather separator Photo E-mail View slideshow | Download images John, Not a bad idea on a 912S. All the Rotax's do spit a bit more oil when the tank is full as on a cross country. My 914 doesn't spit much oil unless it is full. A separator may do the trick. I saw someone with a simple screw on can lid and brazed a couple tubes in it. The store bought ones all have 5/8 and 3/4 inch tubes and cost a bundle. I am familiar with the Jabiru separators and they work well but they have a 5/8 nipple. Why not make a fiberglass can 2x2x4 with a 5/16 inlet and outlet out of the top, coat it well with fiberglass resin to seal and bake it at 250F for a bit to heat cure it. Cheap and simple... Bolt it on the firewall and let the outlet dangle out the bottom as before. Regards, Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: John Wigney Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 8:56 PM Subject: Europa-List: Oil tank breather separator Dear Europaphiles, I am doing some routine maintenance and note that as usual, I have quite a lot of oily marks on the belly of my plane from the oil tank breather hose from my 912S. I am curious if any of you have installed an oil breather/separator and if this has been successful, perhaps you may be able to make a recommendation. Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S Mooresville, North Carolina href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c These photos will be available on SkyDrive for 30 days. To learn more about SkyDrive, click here . To share high quality pictures with your friends and family using MSN Photo E-mail, join MSN . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:21 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Woodcomp Prop diameter From: "Europaul383" I'm thinking of ordering a Woodcomp SR3000/3 for my 912S-powered XS Mono. The preferred prop size seems to be 1625 mm... The factory offered 1625 or 1650, and I think 1625 is best for ground clearance reasons. Anybody got any better ideas? I am also going for the SR3000/3 - again, unless somebody tells me I simply *must* have the 3000/3W. All answers gratefully received... Paul M XS Mono 912S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393767#393767 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:54 AM PST US From: Christoph Both Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp Prop diameter I installed the SR3000-2 blade, scimitar. It is sized 1650mm, so the 1625mm seems to make sense for the 3-blade. Saved 9 pounds weight, though up front, with the 2 blade. Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada On 13-02-07 9:32 AM, "Europaul383" wrote: > >I'm thinking of ordering a Woodcomp SR3000/3 for my 912S-powered XS Mono. > >The preferred prop size seems to be 1625 mm... The factory offered 1625 >or 1650, and I think 1625 is best for ground clearance reasons. Anybody >got any better ideas? > >I am also going for the SR3000/3 - again, unless somebody tells me I >simply *must* have the 3000/3W. > >All answers gratefully received... > >Paul M >XS Mono 912S > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393767#393767 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:24 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp Prop diameter On 02/07/2013 02:32 PM, Europaul383 wrote: > I am also going for the SR3000/3 - again, unless somebody tells me I > simply *must* have the 3000/3W. I would go for the /W, because for the Europa cruise speed the inner portion of the blades has a much better profile. It increases efficiency, speed, and cooling. (The latter because the inner portion of the blades throws more air into the cooling system). I'm unaware of any advantage of the "normal" version over the /W version. The /W version is simply a prop better suited for the speed range of the Europa airplane. Also I would go for the 2-blade version. This for the same reason as why for a fast airplane a single plane wing is better than a bi-plane. With two blades instead of three you cut down 33% of the leading edge, blade-tip vortexes, weight, etc. The result is higher efficiency and higher speed, lower gyroscopic effects, better glide ratio, etc. The /2W prop has more than enough area to fully utilize the power of the Rotax engine; you don't need more blades for this amount of power. I have the SR3000/2W on my 914 powered Europa, and I'm very satisfied with the performance to say the least. The only drawback of a 2-blade prop is that it is a bit more prone to vibrations, but with the prop properly balanced and the carburators properly tuned there are no significant vibrations. I see it as an advantage that I immediately feel it when the carbs are unbalanced, inviting me to investigate, rather than to hide the imbalance to me until more serious problems develop. Avoid the scimitar blades. They offer no advantage over the normal blades, it is just for the looks (if it is your taste after all), but they are asymmetrical on the variable pitch system and create strain both mechanically as electronically. Frans ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:57 AM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil tank breather separator John, A simple can, similar to the one in Bud's drawing will work. I used a 4oz. PVC glue can. One hole in the removable top, and one high on the side. At every oil change, I remove the top and dump out the gunk. No oil on the belly... Jeff - Baby Blue On 2/6/2013 7:56 PM, John Wigney wrote: > Dear Europaphiles, > > I am doing some routine maintenance and note that as usual, I have quite > a lot of oily marks on the belly of my plane from the oil tank breather > hose from my 912S. > > I am curious if any of you have installed an oil breather/separator and > if this has been successful, perhaps you may be able to make a > recommendation. > > Cheers, John > > N262WF, mono XS, 912S > Mooresville, North Carolina > > > * > > > * > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:02 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Woodcomp Prop diameter From: "Europaul383" Thanks to both (no pun intended, Christoph!), Christoph: I have just found our LAA limits (based on EASA CS-VLA) and it might be tricky getting 1650 approved, but now the topic has opened up to 2 vs. 3 blades and W vs. normal. Frans: do you have any data you may have recorded during testing/touring? Specifically, airspeed & RPM (presumably 5,500?) mapped to climb rates; and max speed at different weights. A bit of a long shot, but have you measured any data while normally-aspirated (turbo off)? If you need an excuse to go flying, maybe you might fancy trying some normally-aspirated climbs and cruises? [Wink] Thanks in advance, Paul XS Mono 912S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393776#393776 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:50 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Woodcomp Prop diameter On 02/07/2013 04:53 PM, Europaul383 wrote: > Frans: do you have any data you may have recorded during > testing/touring? > > Specifically, airspeed & RPM (presumably 5,500?) mapped to climb > rates; and max speed at different weights. Yes, but my ship is quite non-standard and it is impossible to attribute the performance to the individual mods as they where there from the beginning. I have very large wing root fairings, highly modified low drag cooling, intercooler on the engine, a modified high top arrangement, gap seals, modified exhaust, etc. and the /2W prop is just one of the features. My Europa seems to be on the "fast" side when compared to other Europa's. > A bit of a long shot, but have you measured any data while > normally-aspirated (turbo off)? I don't see how it would be possible to turn the turbo off (turning it off is something entirely different to flipping the TCU switch) but of course I can fly in Manifold Pressure regions that are available to naturally aspirated engines too. In fact I usually fly with about 27 to 28" of MAP which gives me speeds around 130 IAS @MTOW if I recall correctly. (Haven't been flying for a while due to weather and lack of reachable interesting destinations). Frans ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:14 AM PST US From: John Wigney Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil tank breather separator Hi Bud, Well as usual, you are full of good ideas. Why did I not think of making one? Thanks, John ------------------------------------------------------------------------ John, Not a bad idea on a 912S. All the Rotax's do spit a bit more oil when the tank is full as on a cross country. My 914 doesn't spit much oil unless it is full. A separator may do the trick. I saw someone with a simple screw on can lid and brazed a couple tubes in it. The store bought ones all have 5/8 and 3/4 inch tubes and cost a bundle. I am familiar with the Jabiru separators and they work well but they have a 5/8 nipple. Why not make a fiberglass can 2x2x4 with a 5/16 inlet and outlet out of the top, coat it well with fiberglass resin to seal and bake it at 250F for a bit to heat cure it. Cheap and simple... Bolt it on the firewall and let the outlet dangle out the bottom as before. Regards, Bud ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: John Wigney To: Europa-List Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 8:56 PM Subject: Europa-List: Oil tank breather separator Dear Europaphiles, I am doing some routine maintenance and note that as usual, I have quite a lot of oily marks on the belly of my plane from the oil tank breather hose from my 912S. I am curious if any of you have installed an oil breather/separator and if this has been successful, perhaps you may be able to make a recommendation. Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S Mooresville, North Carolina ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:52 AM PST US From: Tim Ward Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil tank breather separator John, I use a aluminum " Baroca" tablet container to catch any oil spill. Baroca i s a energy vitamin supplement from the Supermarket or Chemist/ Pharmacy. It i s big enough to catch the oil from the overflow tube and I clean it out ever y 100 hour annual check. The overflow tube runs down the side of the footwel l and the container is installed against the footwell with electrical ties. Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t@xtra.co.nz Ph 64 3 3515166 Mob 0210640221 On 8/02/2013, at 5:34 AM, John Wigney wrote: > Hi Bud, > > Well as usual, you are full of good ideas. Why did I not think of making o ne? > > Thanks, John > > > John, > Not a bad idea on a 912S. All the Rotax's do spit a bit more oil when the tank is full as on a cross country. My 914 doesn't spit much oil unless it is full. A separator may do the trick. I saw someone with a simple screw on can lid and brazed a couple tubes in it. The store bought ones all have 5/8 and 3/4 inch tubes and cost a bundle. > > I am familiar with the Jabiru separators and they work well but they have a 5/8 nipple. Why not make a fiberglass can 2x2x4 with a 5/16 inlet and outl et out of the top, coat it well with fiberglass resin to seal and bake it at 250F for a bit to heat cure it. Cheap and simple... > Bolt it on the firewall and let the outlet dangle out the bottom as befor e. > Regards, Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Wigney > To: Europa-List > Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 8:56 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Oil tank breather separator > Dear Europaphiles, I am doing some routine maintenance and note that a s usual, I have quite a lot of oily marks on the belly of my plane from the o il tank breather hose from my 912S. > I am curious if any of you have installed an oil breather/separator and i f this has been successful, perhaps you may be able to make a recommendation .. > Cheers, John > N262WF, mono XS, 912S > Mooresville, North Carolina > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:35 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Woodcomp Prop diameter Paul, I have data comparing performance of SR 3000W 1625 with SR 2000 1625 on a 914 and clear advantage for latter. Am skiing at present but when home will send you the full analysis. The LAA will I believe not accept 1650, and I suspect that Woodcomp would advise the 3 blader (but ask them) for a 912 S as they did for my 914, otherwise at any height you risk running out of propeller to take the power. Regards, David Joyce, G- XSDJ On Thu, 7 Feb 2013 07:53:03 -0800 "Europaul383" wrote: > > > Thanks to both (no pun intended, Christoph!), > > Christoph: I have just found our LAA limits (based on >EASA CS-VLA) and it might be tricky getting 1650 >approved, but now the topic has opened up to 2 vs. 3 >blades and W vs. normal. > >Frans: do you have any data you may have recorded during >testing/touring? > > Specifically, airspeed & RPM (presumably 5,500?) mapped >to climb rates; and max speed at different weights. > > A bit of a long shot, but have you measured any data >while normally-aspirated (turbo off)? If you need an >excuse to go flying, maybe you might fancy trying some >normally-aspirated climbs and cruises? [Wink] > > Thanks in advance, > > Paul > XS Mono 912S > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393776#393776 > > > > > > > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:26 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Woodcomp Prop diameter From: "graeme bird" I changed last year. I guess you saw my post regarding replacement blades on the W version having to be a set. If I started again I would go for the normal ones. It has to be 1625 and 3 blades to be approved by the LAA. having put it on, put the warp drive back, then back to woodcomp, I cant say that there was any substantial cruise performance increase except take off and more control on landing. It looks very nice though. Kevin was very helpful. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 45 hours g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393796#393796 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:59 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: permit form in - heralds a season of unusually good weather From: "graeme bird" So the form is into the LAA and the old permit has expired, thus all in the UK should expect a short sharp snap of unusually good flying weather until the new one arrives. One of my eyes will be on the blue sky and another on the letter box. Ha! -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 45 hours g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393797#393797 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:53 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Woodcomp Prop diameter On 02/07/2013 07:34 PM, David Joyce wrote: > I suspect that Woodcomp would advise the 3 blader (but > ask them) for a 912 S as they did for my 914, otherwise at any height > you risk running out of propeller to take the power. With my 914 intercooler and 3000/2W I fly regularly at +FL100 but never ran out of propeller to take the power or even close to that. Frans ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:35 PM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Woodcomp Prop diameter Frans, We are of course subject to LAA scrutiny & they require us to demonstrate climb rate of >300fpm in max coarse from a go around, which no doubt means that our coarse stop will be not so coarse as yours. I can overspeed the engine at 100% throttle at 10,000ft - not that at is of great consequence as I usually cruise at much lower throttle settings. Otherwise your inter cooler is working wonders! Regards, David Joyce On Thu, 07 Feb 2013 20:45:50 +0100 Frans Veldman wrote: > > > On 02/07/2013 07:34 PM, David Joyce wrote: > >> I suspect that Woodcomp would advise the 3 blader (but >> ask them) for a 912 S as they did for my 914, otherwise >>at any height >> you risk running out of propeller to take the power. > > With my 914 intercooler and 3000/2W I fly regularly at >+FL100 but never > ran out of propeller to take the power or even close to >that. > >Frans > > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.