---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/19/13: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:40 AM - Re: Northolt connections (JonSmith) 2. 01:26 AM - Class A or not? (Peter Jeffers) 3. 01:29 AM - Re: Damping Grease (jonathanmilbank) 4. 02:03 AM - Re: Damping Grease (Richard Wheelwright) 5. 02:07 AM - Re: Northolt connections (Alan Carter) 6. 02:23 AM - Re: Re: Northolt connections (Pete Lawless) 7. 04:44 AM - Re: Re: Damping Grease (wdaniell.longport) 8. 06:52 AM - Re: Northolt connections (Europaul383) 9. 10:29 AM - Europa fly-in this year? (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 10. 10:43 AM - Re: Northolt connections (graeme bird) 11. 11:18 AM - Re: Europa fly-in this year? (David Joyce) 12. 12:10 PM - Re: Northolt connections (Alan Carter) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:40:58 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Northolt connections From: "JonSmith" Hi! I know nothing about Northolt, but it does indeed say in Pooleys that it's not available to civilian single engine aircraft so I guess that (unless you know someone to slip a few quid to!) then sadly that's a show stopper in this case. But as a principle, being in the Heathrow class A CTR would not be a problem itself. VFR flight is not permitted in any class A airspace but SPECIAL VFR clearance can be requested for entry into any CTR irrespective of the class of the CTR. This special VFR procedure is an "authorisation by ATC for a pilot to fly within a CTR even though he is unable to comply with IFR requirements" and can be used to fly to an airfield within, or transit a CTR. Note this applies specifically to CTR's (Control ZONES) and NOT CTA's (anything else such as TMA's, CTA's, airways etc). I have several times when flying N or S past London obtained a SVFR clearance to route through the Heathrow CTR; Burnham - Ascot seems to work well. Clearance is often not above 1000'. You don't need to file a flight plan but you MUST obtain clearance from Heathrow radar. It's usually empty and seems much safer than the corridor of hell around the outside of the CTR at 2400'! Nb. Some small airfields within the London class A CTR (eg. Fairoaks, White Waltham etc) have specific special agreements for "Local Flying Areas" within the CTR. Flight within these areas are still technically considered SVFR flights but clearance from Heathrow is not required (and indeed is not obtainable). In the case of, for example, flying to Vallance near Gatwick, SVFR is not needed because Gatwick CTR is class D airspace so we can obtain a VFR clearance to enter there. It's only to enter class A CTR's that SVFR clearance is relevant and required - another example being to enter the channel islands class A CTR. -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394552#394552 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:53 AM PST US From: "Peter Jeffers" Subject: Europa-List: Class A or not? Graham, The fact that you have got into 'Vallence Byways', well inside Gatwick CTR strip without being arrested is because, as Tim mentions, it is indeed in Class D airspace from Ground to 2,500ft. Above 2,500ft over LGW (and almost anywhere else around the London area) you would be in LTMA which is Class A. London Heathrow CTR is definitely Class A from SFC to 2,500ft and then above that you are in LTMA also Class A. The only way to penetrate Class A airspace is to get a special VFR clearance. Usually this is best arranged on the phone before getting airborne. Hence to get to the point, if Northolt would accept you (which is very doubtful unless your name starts with Sir..), you would then also need special VFR clearance from London. Pete Jeffers ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:45 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Damping Grease From: "jonathanmilbank" http://www.newgateonline.com/application/damping-grease/pg-44a-50gram-jar.html This link was sent to me by the Peter mentioned above, in reply to my email asking whether the grease is available in smaller quantities and his reply was in the affirmative. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394553#394553 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:03:11 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Damping Grease From: "Richard Wheelwright" Thank you for the replies, I have managed to get a small tube from NewGateOnline. One again Thank You. -------- Richard Wheelwright G-IRPW 90% finished with that 90% to Finish Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394555#394555 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:54 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Northolt connections From: "Alan Carter" Hi Jon. Nice concise article, That,s how the CAA books on Aviation Law should be written, so its easily understandable and giving an example. Well done. I have flown into them all many years ago, as far as i can remember White Waltham was like Headcorn Bumpy. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394556#394556 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:10 AM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Northolt connections Thanks for a sensible explanation. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JonSmith Sent: 19 February 2013 08:40 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Northolt connections Hi! I know nothing about Northolt, but it does indeed say in Pooleys that it's not available to civilian single engine aircraft so I guess that (unless you know someone to slip a few quid to!) then sadly that's a show stopper in this case. But as a principle, being in the Heathrow class A CTR would not be a problem itself. VFR flight is not permitted in any class A airspace but SPECIAL VFR clearance can be requested for entry into any CTR irrespective of the class of the CTR. This special VFR procedure is an "authorisation by ATC for a pilot to fly within a CTR even though he is unable to comply with IFR requirements" and can be used to fly to an airfield within, or transit a CTR. Note this applies specifically to CTR's (Control ZONES) and NOT CTA's (anything else such as TMA's, CTA's, airways etc). I have several times when flying N or S past London obtained a SVFR clearance to route through the Heathrow CTR; Burnham - Ascot seems to work well. Clearance is often not above 1000'. You don't need to file a flight plan but you MUST obtain clearance from Heathrow radar. It's usually empty and seems much safer than the corridor of hell around the outside of the CTR at 2400'! Nb. Some small airfields within the London class A CTR (eg. Fairoaks, White Waltham etc) have specific special agreements for "Local Flying Areas" within the CTR. Flight within these areas are still technically considered SVFR flights but clearance from Heathrow is not required (and indeed is not obtainable). In the case of, for example, flying to Vallance near Gatwick, SVFR is not needed because Gatwick CTR is class D airspace so we can obtain a VFR clearance to enter there. It's only to enter class A CTR's that SVFR clearance is relevant and required - another example being to enter the channel islands class A CTR. -------- G-TERN Classic Mono Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394552#394552 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:26 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Damping Grease From: "wdaniell.longport" RG9lcyBhbnlvbmUga25vdyB3aGVyZSB5b3UgZ2V0IHRoaXMgaW4gc21hbGwgcXVhbnRpdGllcyBp biB0aGUgdXM/CldpbGwKQm9nb3RhCk14cCA3NDAgeHMgOTAlIGRvbmUgKGhhIGhhKQoKLS0tLS0t LS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgbWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLS0tLQpGcm9tOiBSaWNoYXJkIFdoZWVsd3JpZ2h0IDxy cHdoZWVsd3JpZ2h0QHlhaG9vLmNvLnVrPiAKRGF0ZTogIApUbzogZXVyb3BhLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9u aWNzLmNvbSAKU3ViamVjdDogRXVyb3BhLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBEYW1waW5nIEdyZWFzZSAKIAotLT4g RXVyb3BhLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6ICJSaWNoYXJkIFdoZWVsd3JpZ2h0IiA8cnB3 aGVlbHdyaWdodEB5YWhvby5jby51az4KClRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgdGhlIHJlcGxpZXMsCsKgwqDC oMKgwqDCoCBJIGhhdmUgbWFuYWdlZCB0byBnZXQgYSBzbWFsbCB0dWJlIGZyb20gTmV3R2F0ZU9u bGluZS4gCgpPbmUgYWdhaW4gVGhhbmsgWW91LgoKLS0tLS0tLS0KUmljaGFyZCBXaGVlbHdyaWdo dApHLUlSUFcKOTAlIGZpbmlzaGVkIHdpdGggdGhhdCA5MCUgdG8gRmluaXNoCgoKCgpSZWFkIHRo aXMgdG9waWMgb25saW5lIGhlcmU6CgpodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vdmlld3Rv cGljLnBocD9wPTM5NDU1NSMzOTQ1NTUKCgoKCgoKCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cl8tPcKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDC oCAtIFRoZSBFdXJvcGEtTGlzdCBFbWFpbCBGb3J1bSAtCl8tPSBVc2UgdGhlIE1hdHJvbmljcyBM aXN0IEZlYXR1cmVzIE5hdmlnYXRvciB0byBicm93c2UKXy09IHRoZSBtYW55IExpc3QgdXRpbGl0 aWVzIHN1Y2ggYXMgTGlzdCBVbi9TdWJzY3JpcHRpb24sCl8tPSBBcmNoaXZlIFNlYXJjaCAmIERv d25sb2FkLCA3LURheSBCcm93c2UsIENoYXQsIEZBUSwKXy09IFBob3Rvc2hhcmUsIGFuZCBtdWNo IG11Y2ggbW9yZToKXy09Cl8tPcKgwqAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZp Z2F0b3I/RXVyb3BhLUxpc3QKXy09Cl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cl8tPcKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKg wqAgLSBNQVRST05JQ1MgV0VCIEZPUlVNUyAtCl8tPSBTYW1lIGdyZWF0IGNvbnRlbnQgYWxzbyBh dmFpbGFibGUgdmlhIHRoZSBXZWIgRm9ydW1zIQpfLT0KXy09wqDCoCAtLT4gaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVt cy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tCl8tPQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQpfLT3CoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqAgLSBM aXN0IENvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbiBXZWIgU2l0ZSAtCl8tPcKgIFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgeW91ciBnZW5l cm91cyBzdXBwb3J0IQpfLT3CoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKg wqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgwqDCoMKgIC1NYXR0IERyYWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4KXy09wqDCoCAtLT4g aHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbgpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQoKCgo ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:23 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Northolt connections From: "Europaul383" If you want to know if you can fly to anywhere, the AD2 from the AIP is the only definitive source for what you can and cannot do. Pooley's & AFE etc are very useful guides, and good for info such as hotels & taxis, but the AIP (as amended by NOTAMs, also on the AIS website, btw) describe the legal conditions. In the UK, go to www.ais.org.uk > IAIP > Aerodrome Index - Specific. Other countries have their own - search France AIP, for example. If the info you want is not in the AIP give 'em a call - the contact number will be in there. For Northolt: EGWU AD 2.20 LOCAL TRAFFIC REGULATIONS 1 Airport Regulations (a) Northolt is a Government Aerodrome regulated by the Ministry of Defence. No guarantee can be given that this airfield meets the requirements of ICAO Annex 14... ... (f) Civil single-engined fixed-wing aircraft are not permitted. Military single- engine aircraft are permitted by prior arrangement. HTH Paul M Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394570#394570 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:29:41 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Europa-List: Europa fly-in this year? Will there be any Europa fly-in associated with the club's AGM this year? For 2012, the fly-in was announced early in November 2011. So far, there is no information about a 2013 AGM/fly-in on the club's web site, no response to my e-mail 3 weeks ago to chairman@theeuropaclub.org , and nothing on Popham Airfield's event website. I am not making ready for flying across the Channel just yet, but for my personal engagements it would be nice to know as early as possible. The Europa AGM fly-in has a high preference. Regards, Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:22 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Northolt connections From: "graeme bird" exactly, its connections/ RAF contacts that I was fishing for. Not people to tell me I cant fly in airspace that I and others frequently get permission to fly in. I am sure if it were MOD business, I could get permission. Thanks for all the replies though. Incidentally the route across London City is also interesting - haven't done that for three years or so though so it may have changed. And shame on Northolt if they don't allow single engine aircraft in - there is a spitfire on a podium just inside the perimeter. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 45 hours g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394600#394600 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:32 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa fly-in this year? Svein, I very much hope and expect so, but like you I am awaiting a date and info. Regards, David Joyce, club fly out/ins organiser. On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:28:51 +0100 "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" wrote: > Will there be any Europa fly-in associated with the >club's AGM this year? > > > >For 2012, the fly-in was announced early in November >2011. So far, there is > no information about a 2013 AGM/fly-in on the club's web >site, no response > to my e-mail 3 weeks ago to chairman@theeuropaclub.org >, and nothing on > Popham Airfield's event website. > > > > I am not making ready for flying across the Channel just >yet, but for my > personal engagements it would be nice to know as early >as possible. The > Europa AGM fly-in has a high preference. > > > > Regards, > > Svein > > LN-SKJ > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:10:23 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Northolt connections From: "Alan Carter" Hello. No one has told you, you can,t fly or where to fly, its up to you where you fly but it would be unwise to infringe controlled airspace because you get fined. Its a Forum to help pilots, and i for one appreciate the time put in by others to look up the rules and regulations and post them on the forum, and thanks to Jon, who has done a good job in refreshed my memory, i will request a VFR clearance next time i approach Gatwick. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=394609#394609 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.