---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/04/13: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:48 AM - Re: Re: Damping Grease (Peter Jeffers) 2. 01:32 AM - Re: Damping Grease (jonathanmilbank) 3. 02:02 AM - Mono Trailer (flyingphil2) 4. 02:06 AM - Re: Re: Damping Grease (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 5. 02:16 AM - Re: Mono Trailer (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 6. 02:31 AM - Re: Mono Trailer (flyingphil2) 7. 11:26 AM - Help with rough ride rough stomach (graeme bird) 8. 11:50 AM - Re: Help with rough ride rough stomach (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 9. 12:23 PM - Re: Help with rough ride rough stomach (bill) 10. 01:04 PM - Re: Help with rough ride rough stomach (Bob Harrison) 11. 02:18 PM - Re: Help with rough ride rough stomach (Jeff B) 12. 02:29 PM - Re: Help with rough ride rough stomach (rcollings@talktalk.net) 13. 02:31 PM - Re: Help with rough ride rough stomach (Jeff B) 14. 02:32 PM - Re: Help with rough ride rough stomach (David Joyce) 15. 03:41 PM - Re: Help with rough ride rough stomach (Karl Heindl) 16. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Damping Grease (Bud Yerly) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:48:02 AM PST US From: "Peter Jeffers" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Damping Grease Hi Jonathan, Since the friction disc is pin located to the fork assembly it is pointless applying the grease to the underside of the plastic disc. The break out friction referred to is a feature of the speed of application of movement. Just applying a progressive load as in the 20 lb test will not produce the break out effect that you are looking for. Speaking scientifically, the friction torque generated by the grease is related to velocity by a hysteresis curve. Ie the greater the surface speed the greater the friction torque produced. In fact the only way to demonstrate the result of applying the grease is to fly the beast. If you set the friction, as per the manual, then you will achieve exactly the result you require. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jonathanmilbank Sent: 03 March 2013 23:38 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Damping Grease Hi Bud, Neville Eyre recently did the really difficult work on my old monowheel G-EIKY and converted it to a trigear. I then towed it away to do the long list of tasks necessary before it can be inspected and signed off. Today I proceeded to remove the nosewheel fork spindle and made sure that the spindle, bushes and friction plate were clean and dry before applying the Nye damping grease to all relevant surfaces, including both sides of the friction disk. The Nye grease is also lubricating the bushes. Quote from your post above "Note there are two frictions. The first is the torque to break the friction, then there is the rotational torque." Well, if the damping grease gets applied to one side or both sides of the disk, then there is no longer a friction break-out torque. Having tightened the assembly a lot and with the wheel off the ground, all I can discern is a constant 18 to 20 pounds resistance when pulling the nosewheel from side to side. There is no break-out. This being my first experience of setting up a Europa nosewheel, I would appreciate comments and advice from you or anyone else. Comparing my Europa nosewheel with other aircraft of different types also having castoring nosewheels, mine seems excessively heavy to turn from side to side. Yes, I did tie a cable to the wheel axle and wrap it 90 degrees around the rear of the tyre before pulling with a spring scale. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395553#395553 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:58 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Damping Grease From: "jonathanmilbank" Hello Pete, I've received a text (SMS) from Nev this morning, also pointing out the non-necessity of applying anti-shimmy grease to both sides of the friction disk. Seemingly once the assembly has been tightened sufficiently to remove the end float, it will be free to turn but won't turn quickly. It should be possible to push with a finger, again not quickly. The proof of the pudding lies in the eating, so doing taxi trials and rechecking the nosewheel afterwards should give the desired result. Thanks for the scientific insight into this matter. I'll now attempt to remove the incredibly sticky goo from one side of the disk and the fork. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395575#395575 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:43 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Mono Trailer From: "flyingphil2" Hi, I'm on the look out again for a mono trailer that needs a new home. Ideally I'd like something in good condition but let me know what you have. Thanks, Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395578#395578 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:06:08 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Damping Grease Don't think I-would-bother-Jonathan. Leave the grease on and test it. =0AGraham=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: jonathanmilbank =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 4 March 2013, 9:32=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: Damping Grease=0A =0A--> Euro pa-List message posted by: "jonathanmilbank" =0A=0AH ello Pete,=0A=0AI've received a text (SMS) from Nev this morning, also poin ting out the non-necessity of applying anti-shimmy grease to both sides of the friction disk.=0A=0ASeemingly once the assembly has been tightened suff iciently to remove the end float, it will be free to turn but won't turn qu ickly. It should be possible to push with a finger, again not quickly.=0A =0AThe proof of the pudding lies in the eating, so doing taxi trials and re checking the nosewheel afterwards should give the desired result.=0A=0AThan ks for the scientific insight into this matter. I'll now attempt to remove the incredibly sticky goo from one side of the disk and the fork.=0A=0A=0A =0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtop - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admi ===== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:16:52 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mono Trailer Phil=0AI have a closed trailer that could be modified to take a mono. You w ould need to add and extension at the front to take the fin.=0AGraham=0A=0A =0A________________________________=0A From: flyingphil2 =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 4 Ma rch 2013, 10:02=0ASubject: Europa-List: Mono Trailer=0A =0A--> Europa-List message posted by: "flyingphil2" =0A =0AHi,=0A=0AI'm on the look out again for a mono trailer that needs a new h ome.=0AIdeally I'd like something in good condition but let me know what yo u have.=0A=0AThanks,=0A=0APhil=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395578#395578=0A=0A=0A ================== ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:31:06 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mono Trailer From: "flyingphil2" Hi Graham, Many thanks for your reply but I'm just looking for an open mono trailer. Regards, Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395581#395581 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:26:18 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Help with rough ride rough stomach From: "graeme bird" Wife and I expanding horizons but when its a bit bumpy she soon feels very rough and travel sick as per visit to Bembridge UK Sunday. I cant understand that its much different to a car on a bumpy track which she is fine with. Seems a shame. Has anyone found a remedy? -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 45 hours g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395621#395621 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:50:30 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Help with rough ride rough stomach Graeme=0AI used to get sick in my glider circling in thermals. Tell her to concentrate on the horizon. NASA found that=0Aif there was no horizon and a bumpy ride most people got sick. Project a true horizon on the wall=0Aof t he test cell teh astronauts were in was the cure.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A________ ________________________=0A From: graeme bird =0ATo: eu ropa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 4 March 2013, 19:23=0ASubject: Eur opa-List: Help with rough ride rough stomach=0A =0A--> Europa-List message posted by: "graeme bird" =0A=0AWife and I expanding hor izons but when its a bit bumpy she soon feels very rough and travel sick as per visit to Bembridge UK Sunday. I cant understand that its much differen t to a car on a bumpy track which she is fine with. Seems a shame. Has anyo ne found a remedy?=0A=0A--------=0AGraeme Bird=0AG-UMPY=0AMono 912S/Woodcom p 3000/3W=0ANewby: 45 hours- =0Ag(at)gdbmk.co.uk=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=39562 = ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:11 PM PST US From: bill Subject: Re: Europa-List: Help with rough ride rough stomach If I ever have a passenger looking a bit woozy I hand them the controls and let fly. So far it works every time. Just like in a car where the driver never gets sick. Cheers Sue and Bill Sisley On 5/03/2013 8:23 a.m., graeme bird wrote: > > Wife and I expanding horizons but when its a bit bumpy she soon feels very rough and travel sick as per visit to Bembridge UK Sunday. I cant understand that its much different to a car on a bumpy track which she is fine with. Seems a shame. Has anyone found a remedy? > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W > Newby: 45 hours > g(at)gdbmk.co.uk > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395621#395621 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:24 PM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Help with rough ride rough stomach Hi! Bill On the contrary, whenever I've had to deal with a "pewker" it was brought on by giving them the stick ! I had a Marine on board once ...."just a sandwich short of a picnic type" .....I told him if he felt sick to "fire it down on the floor since I didn't have a sick bag" ....... what's the best way to get a "pewk spray" ? ...get a Marine to hold his hand over his mouth !!!! Graeme.......suggest that she has a normal breakfast and relaxes. The worst thing is an empty stomach. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill Sent: 04 March 2013 20:22 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Help with rough ride rough stomach If I ever have a passenger looking a bit woozy I hand them the controls and let fly. So far it works every time. Just like in a car where the driver never gets sick. Cheers Sue and Bill Sisley On 5/03/2013 8:23 a.m., graeme bird wrote: > > Wife and I expanding horizons but when its a bit bumpy she soon feels very rough and travel sick as per visit to Bembridge UK Sunday. I cant understand that its much different to a car on a bumpy track which she is fine with. Seems a shame. Has anyone found a remedy? > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W > Newby: 45 hours > g(at)gdbmk.co.uk > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395621#395621 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:35 PM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: Help with rough ride rough stomach Graeme, You have two options. At your local vitamin store, pick up some ground ginger with peppermint and have her take a couple 30 minutes before flight. Orrrrr, there's this neat device that my wife uses called a Travel Mate. wear it like a wrist watch. Look here http://www.healthdevice.com She swears by it... Jeff - Baby Blue On 3/4/2013 1:23 PM, graeme bird wrote: > > Wife and I expanding horizons but when its a bit bumpy she soon feels very rough and travel sick as per visit to Bembridge UK Sunday. I cant understand that its much different to a car on a bumpy track which she is fine with. Seems a shame. Has anyone found a remedy? > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W > Newby: 45 hours > g(at)gdbmk.co.uk > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395621#395621 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:00 PM PST US From: "rcollings@talktalk.net" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Help with rough ride rough stomach My wife has the same problem, Boots Travel Calm does the trick take 1 or 1/2 of one 1/2 an hour before you start the flight. Best of luck. Richard Original Message: ----------------- From: graeme bird graeme@gdbmk.co.uk Subject: Europa-List: Help with rough ride rough stomach Wife and I expanding horizons but when its a bit bumpy she soon feels very rough and travel sick as per visit to Bembridge UK Sunday. I cant understand that its much different to a car on a bumpy track which she is fine with. Seems a shame. Has anyone found a remedy? -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 45 hours g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395621#395621 -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:31:36 PM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: Help with rough ride rough stomach Sorry, looks like that's a dead link. I just Googled "travel mate motion sickness band" and got several sites, so you should have no problem locating one. Jeff - Baby Blue On 3/4/2013 4:17 PM, Jeff B wrote: > > Graeme, > > You have two options. At your local vitamin store, pick up some ground > ginger with peppermint and have her take a couple 30 minutes before > flight. Orrrrr, there's this neat device that my wife uses called a > Travel Mate. wear it like a wrist watch. Look here > http://www.healthdevice.com She swears by it... > > Jeff - Baby Blue > > On 3/4/2013 1:23 PM, graeme bird wrote: >> >> Wife and I expanding horizons but when its a bit bumpy she soon feels >> very rough and travel sick as per visit to Bembridge UK Sunday. I cant >> understand that its much different to a car on a bumpy track which she >> is fine with. Seems a shame. Has anyone found a remedy? >> >> -------- >> Graeme Bird >> G-UMPY >> Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W >> Newby: 45 hours >> g(at)gdbmk.co.uk >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395621#395621 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:49 PM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Help with rough ride rough stomach Graeme, I would strongly recommend giving her Stugeron, which you can buy over the counter. It was the favourite remedy of my medical sailing colleagues. You can also minimise the stimulus by flying early or late in the day and flying above the thermal layer when poss and avoiding flying much below 3000 ft if there is strong wind. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 11:23:26 -0800 "graeme bird" wrote: > > > Wife and I expanding horizons but when its a bit bumpy >she soon feels very rough and travel sick as per visit to >Bembridge UK Sunday. I cant understand that its much >different to a car on a bumpy track which she is fine >with. Seems a shame. Has anyone found a remedy? > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W > Newby: 45 hours > g(at)gdbmk.co.uk > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395621#395621 > > > > > > > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:13 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Help with rough ride rough stomach Hi Graeme=2C There is a gizmo you can buy at Sportys Pilot Shop and other places.It look s like a watch and straps to the wrist.It gives electric shocks=2C the inte nsity of which is adjustable.It sounds like a gimmick=2C and I don't unders tand the science behind it=2C but it really works.There are also pills avai lable to treat motion sickness=2C available at any pharmacy. Cheers=2C Karl > Subject: Europa-List: Help with rough ride rough stomach > From: graeme@gdbmk.co.uk > Date: Mon=2C 4 Mar 2013 11:23:26 -0800 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > > Wife and I expanding horizons but when its a bit bumpy she soon feels ver y rough and travel sick as per visit to Bembridge UK Sunday. I cant underst and that its much different to a car on a bumpy track which she is fine wit h. Seems a shame. Has anyone found a remedy? > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W > Newby: 45 hours > g(at)gdbmk.co.uk > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395621#395621 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:44 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Damping Grease Jon, Glad to here you are progressing well. I meant in my comments to apply the grease to both the disk (top side only since there is a pin holding the disk immovable on the lower fork) and the flat plate on the gear. Apply the grease to both the plastic and the bearings is OK. As for our friction setting, it is a bit high in comparison to the Yankee, or RV because our nose gear is at a shorter caster distance like those annoying shopping cart wheels. It is set this way to get the proper nose to main spacing and not interfere with the prop and still be able to be kept light. I would say your current setting about 20 is fine. However, if you lower the friction to 16 and bang down the nose at high speed (over 50Kts.) it will likely shimmy. Hence the book says 21 pounds. Set the torque near there and go test it. As far as the breakout, Pete gave a great answer. Once you let the gear set a bit, it takes a bit more pull to get the gear moving than to go around and around once it has started turning. It's time to get into the plane and taxi, test and fly. Regards, Bud Yerly ----- Original Message ----- From: jonathanmilbank To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 6:37 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Damping Grease > Hi Bud, Neville Eyre recently did the really difficult work on my old monowheel G-EIKY and converted it to a trigear. I then towed it away to do the long list of tasks necessary before it can be inspected and signed off. Today I proceeded to remove the nosewheel fork spindle and made sure that the spindle, bushes and friction plate were clean and dry before applying the Nye damping grease to all relevant surfaces, including both sides of the friction disk. The Nye grease is also lubricating the bushes. Quote from your post above "Note there are two frictions. The first is the torque to break the friction, then there is the rotational torque." Well, if the damping grease gets applied to one side or both sides of the disk, then there is no longer a friction break-out torque. Having tightened the assembly a lot and with the wheel off the ground, all I can discern is a constant 18 to 20 pounds resistance when pulling the nosewheel from side to side. There is no break-out. This being my first experience of setting up a Europa nosewheel, I would appreciate comments and advice from you or anyone else. Comparing my Europa nosewheel with other aircraft of different types also having castoring nosewheels, mine seems excessively heavy to turn from side to side. Yes, I did tie a cable to the wheel axle and wrap it 90 degrees around the rear of the tyre before pulling with a spring scale. 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