---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/06/13: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:08 AM - Re: 914 rough running (Robert Borger) 2. 03:58 AM - Re: 914 rough running (h&jeuropa) 3. 06:31 AM - Re: 914 rough running (Kevin Klinefelter) 4. 06:57 AM - Re: 914 rough running (Jerry Rehn) 5. 06:59 AM - Re: Re: 914 rough running (Jerry Rehn) 6. 10:12 AM - Re: 914 rough running (Jerry Rehn) 7. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: 914 rough running (Fred Klein) 8. 02:42 PM - Re: 914 rough running (Bud Yerly) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 rough running From: Robert Borger Jerry, No to both questions. I hope to be at the airport later this morning. I'll see if Nathan is working today or when he is working so I can ask him. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On May 5, 2013, at 10:36 PM, Jerry Rehn wrote: Bob Any idea what torque setting he used? And how he reshaped the bowls? Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:56 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: 914 rough running From: "h&jeuropa" Jerry, We also have a 914 with about 425 hours on it. SN is 4418263. When we had the carbs rebuilt in November by LEAF, the bowl attachment screw 963-281 was replaced. The explanation was that O ring needs a different attachment bolt and the o ring has superseded the flat gasket as the current revision of the carb. And yes, the O rings were not part of the overhaul kit - they were another $6.31 each. The attachment bolt is a pricy little item, $72.50 each!! Hope this helps. Talk to Brett at LEAF 800-532-3462 for more info. Jim & Heather N241BW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400034#400034 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:18 AM PST US From: Kevin Klinefelter Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 rough running I know that if you over-tourqe this that the little brass rods that the floa ts ride up and down on will splay outward as the bottom of the bowl is defor med. You should be able to see if that's the problem. Kevin On May 6, 2013, at 3:07 AM, Robert Borger wrote: > Jerry, > > No to both questions. I hope to be at the airport later this morning. I' ll see if Nathan is working today or when he is working so I can ask him. > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger > Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. > Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208-5331 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > rlborger@mac.com > > On May 5, 2013, at 10:36 PM, Jerry Rehn wrote: > > Bob > Any idea what torque setting he used? And how he reshaped the bowls? > > Sent from my iPad > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 rough running From: Jerry Rehn Bob &Kevin, thanks for info, I am back out to take off and exam bowl, makes a lot of sense, for issues I'm having. Sent from my iPad On May 6, 2013, at 6:30 AM, Kevin Klinefelter w rote: > I know that if you over-tourqe this that the little brass rods that the fl oats ride up and down on will splay outward as the bottom of the bowl is def ormed. You should be able to see if that's the problem. > Kevin > > On May 6, 2013, at 3:07 AM, Robert Borger wrote: > >> Jerry, >> >> No to both questions. I hope to be at the airport later this morning. I 'll see if Nathan is working today or when he is working so I can ask him. >> >> Blue skies & tailwinds, >> Bob Borger >> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. >> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP >> 3705 Lynchburg Dr. >> Corinth, TX 76208-5331 >> Cel: 817-992-1117 >> rlborger@mac.com >> >> On May 5, 2013, at 10:36 PM, Jerry Rehn wrote: >> >> Bob >> Any idea what torque setting he used? And how he reshaped the bowls? >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: 914 rough running From: Jerry Rehn Thanks Jim. Sent from my iPad On May 6, 2013, at 3:58 AM, "h&jeuropa" wrote: > > Jerry, > > We also have a 914 with about 425 hours on it. SN is 4418263. When we had the carbs rebuilt in November by LEAF, the bowl attachment screw 963-281 was replaced. The explanation was that O ring needs a different attachment bolt and the o ring has superseded the flat gasket as the current revision of the carb. And yes, the O rings were not part of the overhaul kit - they were another $6.31 each. > > The attachment bolt is a pricy little item, $72.50 each!! > > Hope this helps. Talk to Brett at LEAF 800-532-3462 for more info. > > Jim & Heather > N241BW > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400034#400034 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 rough running From: Jerry Rehn ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:03 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: 914 rough running On May 6, 2013, at 6:59 AM, Jerry Rehn wrote: >> The attachment bolt is a pricy little item, $72.50 each!! Jim...tell me that you've misplaced a decimal point... Fred do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:42:53 PM PST US From: "Bud Yerly" Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 rough running Jerry, Please note that the 914 is a bugger to troubleshoot, and all the advice so far is notable and spot on. Since the engine has two problems: (1) Rough after pulling it back and (2) TCU Caution light, I will deal with 2 first... 2. The caution light is most probably your throttle pot is not hooked up electrically or the pot was not set to idle with the throttle plate closed so check your connections and pot rotation after doing the carb. Easy mistake, especially since the book doesn't cover it. If not set properly, the TCU gets the wrong throttle position for the Turbo boost and pressure sensors. 1. With you having the same hours I have on my engine, I have noticed that with all the tubing and carb float bowl items operating properly and no fuel leaks, the engine on power reduction runs very rough but idles well and runs well above 4000 RPM. I suspect yours is similar. It is not uncommon that one of the carb pistons is hanging up. Once the piston goes up on full throttle, one doesn't want to come down. I removed the carburetors again. I completely drained and freed both my carbs of fuel to prevent an explosion. I rigged my vacuum cleaner and pulled air from the manifold side and noted the movement of the piston. On the left carb it was clearly hanging up. After much cleaning, sanding with 1000 and 1500 grit paper, polishing and more cleaning, the piston is acceptable in its movement and smoothness. If your carb pistons move smoothly and in unison (checked by noting the throttle angle vs piston position) then that should make the carbs balance in the mid range. If the main carb body is worn or scored badly, some small grit has gotten into the carb and I am afraid you can save a lot of time and trouble by buying two new carbs. By the way, that is about the price of a small car down payment. To Bob Borgers comment, I have found that leaving the float bowl gasket in place and adding the new extra O ring (with a bit of lube) allows me to install the original float bowl attachment screw and I torque it to 48 inch pounds. Be sure to soak your paper gasket in fuel for a few minutes. Note that the old manual said 5.5 nm or 45 foot pounds. Obviously 45 foot pounds is going to seriously bend the bottom of the carb bowl and the pins. Luckily, a quick $100 per float bowl will fix that. I have found that it necessary to pay attention to the translation and conversions in the old manual. The new manual has the torque hidden in the verbage so well that I had to post it to my board in the shop. Please pay close attention to your brass float pins and the float bowl. Also make sure your float needle valve and arms are undamaged. I have been very disappointed in the fit of the new carb parts such as the needle fixation screw with the O ring. It sucks. I hope your carbs just need a little tender love and care and not replacement. I am at my last straw with my 1/3 side carb, so I may be spending some big bucks. Regards, Bud Yerly ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Rehn To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2013 3:43 PM Subject: Europa-List: 914 rough running A little history. Engine has about 450 hours, always ran quite well, replaced upper ignition module about two years ago. On recent full boost takeoff, got to about 900 feet leveled off, pulled throttle back and engine ran severe rough, pulled back to idle and engine ran ok, didn't stop! Landed. Checked fuel filter, ok, looked for anything around carbs, nothing. Tried several full run ups, ok. Tried second take off everything fine, pulled back and again engine ran severe rough, pulled back to idle, ran rough, landed. Parked plane, got tools, next day removed carbs looked for issues. Found one of the four screws that holds down the rubber diaphragm loose, very strange because I have never removed this before. Anyway figured this was my problem. Fixed took off all ok. Got home. Next day tried full boost, same issue again, didn't take off. Got carburetor repair kit and went through both carbs. Reinstalled carbs double checked. Started right up, as I move the throttle past 2300 rpm the yellow caution light starts blinking, engine runs rough, reduce rpm the light goes off, increase the light comes back on. Seems the engine runs off the idle jet ok but not on the main jet. I have also checked the waste gate for proper function, fuel pressure ok, turbo lights come on and go off as they should when master is tuned on, I have looked at the vent lines. The yellow blinking light can indicate a sensor failure, seems like it would continue blinking if there was a failure. Seems odd that it stops at low rpm. Seems I have some kind of a vacuum or pressure issue, but am running out of ideas. I am about to go and recheck again! Could a faulty sensor cause this? Hope someone out there has some wise thoughts on this frustrating problem. Worse yet, we have beautiful spring flying weather! Thanks for help. Jerry 914 Mono XS http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.