---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/01/13: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:53 AM - Re: Throttle Stops (Duncan & Ami) 2. 01:17 AM - Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting (Tony Renshaw) 3. 01:21 AM - Re: Throttle Stops (David Watts) 4. 01:55 AM - Re: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting (Richard Wheelwright) 5. 04:27 AM - Re: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting (richard) 6. 04:41 AM - Re: Throttle Stops (richard) 7. 05:11 AM - Re: Throttle Stops (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk) 8. 05:41 AM - Re: Airmaster AC200 Feather light on during flight (GBWFH2010) 9. 05:41 AM - Re: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 10. 09:12 AM - Re: Throttle Stops (Gilles Thesee) 11. 10:16 PM - Door Seals and poor fit to Fuselage (craig) 12. 11:01 PM - Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 13. 11:05 PM - Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:19 AM PST US From: "Duncan & Ami" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Throttle Stops Whilst complying with the LAA requirement for a throttle stop, it's useful to set up the cables so that the carb stops are reached first, followed closely by the stop on the throttle lever itself if the lever is deliberately pulled closed against the throttle lever stop. This limits any excess strain that can be applied to the cables, but provides a useful facility to temporarily pull down the idle speed in flight (which in any case will still always be well above the static setting, as the forward motion drives the prop). As soon as the deliberate backpressure on the lever is released, 'normal service' is resumed This facility makes a usefully large addition to rate of descent and is helpful for landing in to short strips; it's like having an airbrake! Duncan McF. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Pattinson Sent: 30 May 2013 09:23 Subject: Europa-List: Throttle Stops I seem to recall in the early days of Europa that the PFA dictated that we should install a physical throttle stop on the throttle lever (in the cockpit). I have never really understood the purpose of this as the carburettors have their own stops as IMHO one seems to fight against the other. As soon as you increase the idle RPM using the adjuster screws on the carb, the throttle lever is pulled forward by the cables, moving the lever away from the cockpit stop. We have flown quite happily with the carb stop limiting the slow running with a gap of about 2 mm between the rear of the throttle lever and the stop block (tufnol). However, we have just overhauled the carbs and are resetting the balances etc so were wondering if this omission needs to be addressed - it would just be a matter of elongating the holes in the throttle stop. Reading through various articles on Rotax/ Bing carburettor balancing I note that these also stress the need for a cockpit end stop but give no explanation as to why. I'm sure there is a good reason, just need someone to cast some light on this. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:17:38 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting From: Tony Renshaw I would like to request advice regarding methods of shaping the ply inserts for the rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets if anyone has digressed from the manual, either by material/medium or method. Thanks. Regards Tony Renshaw Sydney Aussie ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:21:56 AM PST US From: David Watts Subject: Re: Europa-List: Throttle Stops Duncan, You've got me there. Surely if you have already pulled the throttle back to t he stop on the carb., pulling the lever any more will not make any differenc e at all. Unless I am missing something. Dave Watts G-BXDY Classic Monowheel (Still just short of 2000hrs. But at least we are n ow flying again from our previously waterlogged airfield, so another week sh ould see us over the magic number, and loving every minute of it) On 1 Jun 2013, at 08:52, "Duncan & Ami" wrote: > Whilst complying with the LAA requirement for a throttle stop, it's useful to set up the cables so that the carb stops are reached first, followed clo sely by the stop on the throttle lever itself if the lever is deliberately p ulled closed against the throttle lever stop. This limits any excess strain that can be applied to the cables, but provides a useful facility to tempor arily pull down the idle speed in flight (which in any case will still alway s be well above the static setting, as the forward motion drives the prop). A s soon as the deliberate backpressure on the lever is released, 'normal serv ice' is resumed > This facility makes a usefully large addition to rate of descent and is he lpful for landing in to short strips; it's like having an airbrake! > > Duncan McF. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Pattinson > Sent: 30 May 2013 09:23 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Throttle Stops > > I seem to recall in the early days of Europa that the PFA dictated that we should install a physical throttle stop on the throttle lever (in the cockp it). > > I have never really understood the purpose of this as the carburettors hav e their own stops as IMHO one seems to fight against the other. As soon as y ou increase the idle RPM using the adjuster screws on the carb, the throttle lever is pulled forward by the cables, moving the lever away from the cockp it stop. > > We have flown quite happily with the carb stop limiting the slow running w ith a gap of about 2 mm between the rear of the throttle lever and the stop block (tufnol). However, we have just overhauled the carbs and are resetti ng the balances etc so were wondering if this omission needs to be addressed =93 it would just be a matter of elongating the holes in the throttle stop. > > Reading through various articles on Rotax/ Bing carburettor balancing I no te that these also stress the need for a cockpit end stop but give no explan ation as to why. > > I=99m sure there is a good reason, just need someone to cast some li ght on this. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronh ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:55:53 AM PST US From: Richard Wheelwright Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting Tony,=0A--- Depending on the thickness you need. I used waste from th e tri-gear leg sockets ribs. I cut a 2 1/2 inch circle with a hole saw, the n it was cut down through its edge at the angel needed to contour the side of the fuselage. Worked a treat.=0A=0A============ =========0A=0ARichard Wheelwright=0A======= ==============0A =0A=0A__________________________ ______=0A From: Tony Renshaw =0ATo: europa-list@m atronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, 1 June 2013, 9:17=0ASubject: Europa-List: R ear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting=0A =0A=0A--> Europa-List messag e posted by: Tony Renshaw =0A=0AI would like to r equest advice regarding methods of shaping the ply inserts for the rear Tra iling Edge Lift Pin Sockets if anyone has digressed from the manual, either by material/medium or method. Thanks.=0ARegards=0ATony Renshaw=0ASydney Au =================== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:27:53 AM PST US From: "richard" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting I did the same as Richard W , I drew a circle on a piece of the 12mm plywood the same dia as the bracket tried it in place with the wings in position then once I had the thickness correct blended out from the bracket circle to the edge this made the outside dia about 3 1/2 inches . Then glue and glass as per manual. Good luck Richard C From: Richard Wheelwright Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2013 9:55 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting Tony, Depending on the thickness you need. I used waste from the tri-gear leg sockets ribs. I cut a 2 1/2 inch circle with a hole saw, then it was cut down through its edge at the angel needed to contour the side of the fuselage. Worked a treat. =================== Richard Wheelwright =================== From: Tony Renshaw Sent: Saturday, 1 June 2013, 9:17 Subject: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting I would like to request advice regarding methods of shaping the ply inserts for the rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets if anyone has digressed from the manual, either by material/medium or method. Thanks. Regards Tony Renshaw Sydney st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://fo rums.matronbsp; nbsp; -Matt com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:51 AM PST US From: "richard" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Throttle Stops Hi My understanding of this is that if you over travel the throttle lever when closed you can unseat the cable outer from its carburettor bracket. To reduce this possibility we are required by LAA to wire lock the outer cable to that bracket and fit a throttle lever stop in the cabin. Regards Richard From: Alan Burrill Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 9:32 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Throttle Stops Carly, >From the Rotax Installation Manual, Page 2-4. "The addition of a throttle-closed stop is important to avoid the possibility of excess tension on the throttle cable causing loss of throttle control" Alan #0303 On 30 May 2013, at 09:22, Carl Pattinson wrote: I seem to recall in the early days of Europa that the PFA dictated that we should install a physical throttle stop on the throttle lever (in the cockpit). I have never really understood the purpose of this as the carburettors have their own stops as IMHO one seems to fight against the other. As soon as you increase the idle RPM using the adjuster screws on the carb, the throttle lever is pulled forward by the cables, moving the lever away from the cockpit stop. We have flown quite happily with the carb stop limiting the slow running with a gap of about 2 mm between the rear of the throttle lever and the stop block (tufnol). However, we have just overhauled the carbs and are resetting the balances etc so were wondering if this omission needs to be addressed ' it would just be a matter of elongating the holes in the throttle stop. Reading through various articles on Rotax/ Bing carburettor balancing I note that these also stress the need for a cockpit end stop but give no explanation as to why. I=92m sure there is a good reason, just need someone to cast some light on this. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:44 AM PST US From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Throttle Stops +1 Confused of Southampton On 01/06/2013 09:21, David Watts wrote: > Duncan, > > You've got me there. Surely if you have already pulled the throttle > back to the stop on the carb., pulling the lever any more will not > make any difference at all. Unless I am missing something. > > Dave Watts > G-BXDY Classic Monowheel (Still just short of 2000hrs. But at least we > are now flying again from our previously waterlogged airfield, so > another week should see us over the magic number, and loving every > minute of it) > > On 1 Jun 2013, at 08:52, "Duncan & Ami" > wrote: > >> Message >> Whilst complying with the LAA requirement for a throttle stop, it's >> useful to set up the cables so that the carb stops are reached first, >> followed closely by the stop on the throttle lever itself if the >> lever is deliberately pulled closed against the throttle lever stop. >> This limits any excess strain that can be applied to the cables, but >> provides a useful facility to temporarily pull down the idle speed in >> flight (which in any case will still always be well above the static >> setting, as the forward motion drives the prop). As soon as the >> deliberate backpressure on the lever is released, 'normal service' is >> resumed >> This facility makes a usefully large addition to rate of descent and >> is helpful for landing in to short strips; it's like having an airbrake! >> Duncan McF. >> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:36 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Airmaster AC200 Feather light on during flight From: "GBWFH2010" Bud, Thank you for your very informative comments. I have cured the problem short term but you have given me some excellent pointers regarding removing the root cause. I will have the block off again and check the wiring. Regards -------- Gordon Grant G-BWFH Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401742#401742 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Tony "anyone has digressed from the manual, either by material/medium or method." Here's how I did it: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=31838 Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:13 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Throttle Stops Duncan & Ami a crit : > Whilst complying with the LAA requirement for a throttle stop, it's > useful to set up the cables so that the carb stops are reached first, > followed closely by the stop on the throttle lever itself if the lever > is deliberately pulled closed against the throttle lever stop. This > limits any excess strain that can be applied to the cables, but > provides a useful facility to temporarily pull down the idle speed in > flight (which in any case will still always be well above the static > setting, as the forward motion drives the prop). As soon as the > deliberate backpressure on the lever is released, 'normal service' is > resumed > This facility makes a usefully large addition to rate of descent and > is helpful for landing in to short strips; it's like having an airbrake! Duncan and all, In my opinion, an adjustable stop at the throttle lever is important for 2 things : - Allowing an easy fine tuning of the idle speed without disturbing anything in the engine compartment - Preventing any stress on the throttle linkage and carb, which is the principal cause of changes in idle adjustment and carb synchronization. I crafted a webpage which may be of interest http://contrails.free.fr/engine_rotax_stops.php French only for the moment, but a Frenglish version might appear soon... FWIW, Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:58 PM PST US From: "craig" Subject: Europa-List: Door Seals and poor fit to Fuselage I am basically ready to paint my baby, but REALLY don't like the door seal arrangement With the seals off my doors are as close to perfect as I want, and they are ok to close, Just a small amount of force to overcome the strut for the rear lock pin to close and lock the Doors, all edges align nicely with the skin of the A/C, when I put the seals on however The doors become VERY hard to close and cause a 3 to 5mm bulge front back top and bottom In the middle between hinges locks etc. I was considering cutting down the seal I bought to relieve most Of the pressure on the door, or removing completely and using some of the soft draft seal stuck To the door to take up any gap. Has anyone done anything different to resolve this Thanks Craig in OZ Kit 577 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:05 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Europa-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Europa-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. 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Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Europa-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Europa-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:10 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Europa-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Europa-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Europa-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Europa-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.