Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:53 AM - Re: Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets........P.S. (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
2. 03:44 AM - Re: Classic Centre Console (richard)
3. 05:16 AM - Re: Throttle Stops (richard)
4. 05:19 AM - Re: Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets........P.S. (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
5. 05:22 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 06/01/13 (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
6. 07:16 AM - Re: Rotax 914 yellow caution light blinking (Paul McAllister)
7. 07:40 AM - Re: Rotax 914 yellow caution light blinking (Jerry Rehn)
8. 08:11 AM - Re: How do I order Mod 77 for a Europa XS Trigear? (Bud Yerly)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets........P.S. |
Tony=0Adon't use bondo, it's a polyester resin and doesn't bond to epoxy. A
lso, it's under tension. However, there is an aluminium plate under it bond
ed between the inner and outer skins. It's there to spread the load and som
e of the early ones weren't in the right place. The hole for the lift pin b
olt should be close to the centre of the plate.=0AAre you incorporating the
weight up grade mod? Strongly recommend it, the forward lift load will the
n be taken by the tube=0Aacross to the other side.=0AHave a chat with Kings
ley?=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Tony
Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europ
a-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Sunday, 2 June 2013, 14:09=0ASubject: Europa
-List: Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets........P.S.=0A =0A=0A--> Europa-List
message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0A=0A> Gidday ag
ain,=0AI've already received a private message telling me of other airframe
s with the problem of the lift pin plates being in the wrong place within t
he fuselage moulding. Comment was passed about the suitability of car bog,
polyester based, with our epoxy layups, and the PFA's view of its suitabili
ty under compressive load. Anticipating some negative commentary I would li
ke to make the following respectful comments. Those doubters I'd like to as
k, have you ever tried to remove car bog from something? My lower fuselage
jig is bonded to the floor to keep it level and true. I needed to use a chi
sel and a lot of effort to remove it. Now a chisel is a very concentrated f
orce, and I can guarantee the load exerted by the fuselage facing "face" of
a rear lift pin socket would need an exorbitant amount of force to compres
s an entrapped amount of this polyester resin based filler. Also, once enca
psulated- in 4 plies of BID, whether it sticks to the BId or not, my
belief is it will be there !=0Aforever. I believe there is a greater likel
ihood of it being there in 50 years than plywood. Why didn't Europa use it
as a medium in their manual? I believe because it was possibly overlooked,
and did not have a historical base in aircraft structures. Personally, if i
t is inert, doesn't age or shrink, is easily workable into complex shapes,
or be sanded and shaped into such, I'd be happy with it in my bird, with my
kids on board. So, a bit of a vent really, but I am irritated I have to us
e an in exact method on some preconception it will be better, when I think
it won't. Mind you, Downunder like the US, I am allowed to make structural
modifications. I'm tempted, but my conservative pilot nature brings me here
=- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle
========
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Classic Centre Console |
Hi , My personal view would be to fit the XS cockpit module if you can find
one being sold off, [they are well over 2000 new] don't bother with the
door frame mod to increase the cabin width, but do the Hi-Top mod. Best of
luck Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: spcialeffects
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 10:33 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Classic Centre Console
I am about to start on the cockpit module part of my build and would like to
get as much space as possible inside so am thinking of doing the width
increase, hi-top mod and would also like to change the centre tunnel for the
slimmer XS one. I came across
this:http://www.theeuropaclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/No-32-Dec-2001.pdf
please see page 12 mod 24 and then this week came across this site
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oy-raf.dk%2Fhome_dk.html
. My questions are, is this a possible mod in the uk, what with the laa's
rules and regs and has anyone, other then the above web site, do this mod?
Thanks in advance for all advice given
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401620#401620
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle Stops |
MessageHi Sorry I have got it wrong again , with the throttle sprung to
open the cabin throttle closed stop is fitted to ensure you
don=99t over load the levers on the carburettors by attempting to
travel them beyond their stops. By the sound of it if you can apply
extra load to the closed lever and achieve a lower RPM idle then you
must be loading the linkage and taking up any slight play in the
carburettors cross shaft. Not good I think. With regard to not wanting
to over travel the throttle lever when fully open, I fitted a stop in
the cabin because I found that you could unseat the outer cable at the
carburettor end by over traveling the throttle lever to open and did not
want to rely on just the wire locking to stop this.
Sorry again for my mistake which I realised when I checked the engine
yesterday.
Regards to all .
Richard
Europa XS G-CGZV 45Hrs plane flying very well, Pilot rubish.
From: Duncan & Ami
Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 10:48 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Throttle Stops
Carl,
Thank you for understanding my email, no pills needed!
DMcF
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Pattinson
Sent: 02 June 2013 10:02
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Throttle Stops
It does make a difference =93 on our setup with the engine
idling normally (carb throttle arm touching the carb stops) we get
2,000 RPM =93 apply back pressure and the RPM drops to 1,700 RPM
=93 release pressure and the RMP goes back up. The distance
between the throttle lever and the backstop is about 2 =93 3 mm
when no pressure applied.
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk
Sent: 01 June 2013 13:11
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Throttle Stops
+1
Confused of Southampton
On 01/06/2013 09:21, David Watts wrote:
Duncan,
You've got me there. Surely if you have already pulled the throttle
back to the stop on the carb., pulling the lever any more will not make
any difference at all. Unless I am missing something.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY Classic Monowheel (Still just short of 2000hrs. But at least
we are now flying again from our previously waterlogged airfield, so
another week should see us over the magic number, and loving every
minute of it)
On 1 Jun 2013, at 08:52, "Duncan & Ami" <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net>
wrote:
Whilst complying with the LAA requirement for a throttle stop,
it's useful to set up the cables so that the carb stops are reached
first, followed closely by the stop on the throttle lever itself if the
lever is deliberately pulled closed against the throttle lever stop.
This limits any excess strain that can be applied to the cables, but
provides a useful facility to temporarily pull down the idle speed in
flight (which in any case will still always be well above the static
setting, as the forward motion drives the prop). As soon as the
deliberate backpressure on the lever is released, 'normal service' is
resumed
This facility makes a usefully large addition to rate of descent
and is helpful for landing in to short strips; it's like having an
airbrake!
Duncan McF.
http://www.matron===================
<=EF=BD - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS via the Web -->
http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web generous
=EF=BD -Matt http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets........P.S. |
Correct=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Pe
te <peterz@zutrasoft.com>=0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europa-list@ma
tronics.com> =0ASent: Sunday, 2 June 2013, 16:10=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List
: Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets........P.S.=0A =0A=0A--> Europa-List messa
ge posted by: Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com>=0A=0ANot commenting on chemistrie
s, but if we are talking about the rear lift sockets, it is my understandin
g that the rear pins are under tension during accelerated flight (like a pu
ll-up) preventing the wings from folding forward.=0A=0ACheers,=0APete=0AA23
9=0A=0AOn Jun 2, 2013, at 9:09 AM, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
68@gmail.com>=0A> =0A>> Gidday again,=0A> I've already received a private m
essage telling me of other airframes with the problem of the lift pin plate
s being in the wrong place within the fuselage moulding. Comment was passed
about the suitability of car bog, polyester based, with our epoxy layups,
and the PFA's view of its suitability under compressive load. Anticipating
some negative commentary I would like to make the following respectful comm
ents. Those doubters I'd like to ask, have you ever tried to remove car bog
from something? My lower fuselage jig is bonded to the floor to keep it le
vel and true. I needed to use a chisel and a lot of effort to remove it. No
w a chisel is a very concentrated force, and I can guarantee the load exert
ed by the fuselage facing "face" of a rear lift pin socket would need an ex
orbitant amount of force to compress an entrapped amount of this polyester
resin based filler. Also, once encapsulated- in 4 plies of BID, whether i
t sticks to the BId or not, my
belief is it will be ther!=0Ae !=0A> forever. I believe there is a greater
likelihood of it being there in 50 years than plywood. Why didn't Europa u
se it as a medium in their manual? I believe because it was possibly overlo
oked, and did not have a historical base in aircraft structures. Personally
, if it is inert, doesn't age or shrink, is easily workable into complex sh
apes, or be sanded and shaped into such, I'd be happy with it in my bird, w
ith my kids on board. So, a bit of a vent really, but I am irritated I have
to use an in exact method on some preconception it will be better, when I
think it won't. Mind you, Downunder like the US, I am allowed to make struc
tural modifications. I'm tempted, but my conservative pilot nature brings m
e here first. =0A> Regards=0A> Tony Renshaw=0A> Frustrated Aussie=0A> =0A>
=========================0A
===================
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 06/01/13 |
Redux and flox would be OK, if you use peel ply (recommended) with care you
should get a nice shape=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________________
_____=0A From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0ATo: europa-list@ma
tronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 2 June 2013, 11:08=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re:
Europa-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 06/01/13=0A =0A=0A--> Europa-List message po
sted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0A=0AGidday,=0AThanks to R
ichard Wheelwright, Richard Collings, and Ron Parigoris for their replies r
egarding TE Lift Pin Sockets. I had to move all 4 of my lift pin socket pla
tes from the sides of the fuselage, due to them being in the wrong position
, and no, my dimensions are correct. A bunch of other builders, well at lea
st one other, have had to move plates. So, the rear plates were extracted a
nd moved from the outside due to access with the cockpit module in the way.
Suffice to say I have a buildup over the plates that whilst over the top o
f the plates it is flat, as you migrate outward, I have multiple plies of c
loth including the mandatory 4 plies of BID for reinforcement. So, whilst I
like curves of the feminine sense, I hate them otherwise. I've got curves
going off in all directions and I'm just hopeless at the trial and error of
shaping ply. I have an admission, I love car bog. Polyester resin mixed wi
th talc. Easy to sand, easy to shape. I am wondering if
rather than ply I coul!=0Ad apply car bog over the plate area, shape it ni
cely, and then layup over the top of it. It aint going to crack away or mig
rate anywhere as it is captive by the BID, and should remain "in"compressib
le, certainly no more than ply. Or, if the car bog is the issue, why not ap
ply it, shape it, splash it, fill it with redux and flox, and redux it back
on? I can build most of the kit but when it comes to multiple fit and sand
, fit and sand, etc, I know most will think it an easy thing, but I struggl
e and simply don't enjoy it. So, any other options??=0ARegards=0ATony Rensh
aw=0AWhingy Aussie=0A=0A=0AOn 02/06/2013, at 5:01 PM, Europa-List Digest Se
rver <europa-list@matronics.com> wrote:=0A=0A> =0A> _______________________
_________- Message 4- _____________________________________=0A> =0A>
=0A> Time: 01:55:53 AM PST US=0A> From: Richard Wheelwright <rpwheelwright@
yahoo.co.uk>=0A> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sock
et Mounting=0A> =0A> Tony,=0A--- Depending on the thickness you need. I u
sed waste from th=0A> e tri-gear leg sockets ribs. I cut a 2 1/2 inch circl
e with a hole saw, the=0A> n it was cut down through its edge at the angel
needed to contour the side =0A> of the fuselage. Worked a treat.=0A=0A
=============0A> =========0A=0A
Richard Wheelwright=0A========0A> ========
======0A =0A=0A__________________________=0A> ______=0A F
rom: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0ATo: europa-list@m=0A> atro
nics.com =0ASent: Saturday, 1 June 2013, 9:17=0ASubject: Europa-List: R
=0A> ear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting=0A- =0A=0A--> Europ
a-List messag=0A> e posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0A
=0AI would like to r=0A> equest advice regarding methods of shaping the p
ly inserts for the rear Tra=0A> iling Edge Lift Pin Sockets if anyone has d
igressed from the manual, either=0A> by material/medium or method. Thanks.
=0ARegards=0ATony Renshaw=0ASydney Au=0A> =========
===========0A> =0A> ________________________________-
Message 5- _____________________________________=0A> =0A> =0A> Time: 04:
27:53 AM PST US=0A> From: "richard" <rcollings@talktalk.net>=0A> Subject: R
e: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting=0A> =0A> I did
the same as Richard W , I drew a circle on a piece of the 12mm =0A> plywood
the same dia as the bracket tried it in place with the wings in =0A> posit
ion then once I had the thickness correct blended out from the =0A> bracket
circle to the edge this made the outside dia about 3 1/2 inches =0A> . The
n glue and glass as per manual.- Good luck Richard C=0A> =0A> From: Richa
rd Wheelwright =0A> Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2013 9:55 AM=0A> Subject: Re: E
uropa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting=0A> =0A> Tony,=0A>
- - Depending on the thickness you need. I used waste from the tri-gear
=0A> leg sockets ribs. I cut a 2 1/2 inch circle with a hole saw, then it
was =0A> cut down through its edge at the angel needed to contour the side
of the =0A> fuselage. Worked a treat.=0A> =0A> =========
===========0A> =0A> Richard Wheelwright=0A> ===
=================0A> =0A> From: Tony Rensha
w <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0A> Sent: Saturday, 1 June 2013, 9:17=0A> Subj
ect: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting=0A> =0A> =0A>
<tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0A> =0A> I would like to request advice regardi
ng methods of shaping the ply =0A> inserts for the rear Trailing Edge Lift
Pin Sockets if anyone has =0A> digressed from the manual, either by materia
l/medium or method. Thanks.=0A> Regards=0A> Tony Renshaw=0A> Sydney st" =0A
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://fo
=0A> rums.matronbsp;- nbsp;- - - - - - - - - -Matt co
m/contribution" =0A> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n=0A> =0A> =0A> ________________________________- Message 6- __________
___________________________=0A> =0A> ________________________________- Me
ssage 9- _____________________________________=0A> =0A> =0A> Time: 05:41:
36 AM PST US=0A> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sock
et Mounting=0A> From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us=0A> =0A> =0A> --- Hi
Tony=0A> =0A> =0A> --- "anyone has digressed from the manual, either
by material/medium or=0A> method."=0A> =0A> =0A> --- Here's how I di
d it:=0A> =0A> =0A> --- http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemI
===========
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 yellow caution light blinking |
Jerry, I think among my box of bits I have a spare throttle sensor that I
can lend you for trouble shooting. Let me know if you need it and I'll
toss it in the post. - Paul
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 yellow caution light blinking |
Paul
Thanks for the offer, I tested mine per the rotax manual and it is defiantly
shot! I need to replace it.
Jerry
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 3, 2013, at 7:15 AM, Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com> wro
te:
> Jerry, I think among my box of bits I have a spare throttle sensor that I c
an lend you for trouble shooting. Let me know if you need it and I'll toss i
t in the post. - Paul
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
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=========
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: How do I order Mod 77 for a Europa XS Trigear? |
Jeff,
I don't carry that mod in my stock.
The Europa factory is moving, so it is best to email Karen at the
factory direct. It will be as fast as you can get it. I will be gone
for the rest of the week and just slow you down.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey Williams<mailto:jeffwill55@sbcglobal.net>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 3:42 PM
Subject: Europa-List: How do I order Mod 77 for a Europa XS Trigear?
<jeffwill55@sbcglobal.net<mailto:jeffwill55@sbcglobal.net>>
Hello Bud!
I have been looking at installing the pushrod rudder drive, Mod 77,
and I would like to know if I order that from you, or directly from
Europa? I have a Trigear Europa XS. I looks like the price is something
around $327 US, plus whatever taxes, shipping, and handling would be.
Regards,
Jeff Williams
340 North Park Blvd.
Brookfield, WI 53005
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
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