Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:50 AM - Re: Immersion suits? (Frans Veldman)
2. 03:15 AM - Re: wing lift/drag pins (Alan Carter)
3. 03:35 AM - Re: wing lift/drag pins (g-fizy)
4. 03:58 AM - Re: wing lift/drag pins (Alan Carter)
5. 04:44 AM - Re: Ruptured Fuel Tank (richard)
6. 08:55 AM - Re: Re: wing lift/drag pins (Pete)
7. 01:51 PM - Re: wing lift/drag pins (Alan Carter)
8. 03:00 PM - Re: Re: wing lift/drag pins (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Immersion suits? |
On 06/29/2013 02:36 AM, Kevin Kedward wrote:
> He and his fellow pupils
> found it nigh on Impossible( and Tony had the great build ) to get
> into the wet slippery dingy LOL.
Yep, I heard that too. There is a test somewhere on the internet where
they have tested a lot of dingies and it seems that even in a swimming
pool the majority of the people fail to board it. Let alone when there
are waves, you are somewhat injured due to the ditching, the water is
freezing cold, and you are wearing shoes and other restricting clothes.
I have a dingy, this was one of the models tested, and it is a model
without ladder ("stairs"?), like all lighter weight models, and nearly
impossible to board. It also doesn't have an anchor (again, most smaller
dingies don't have it) and this simply means that it will be blown by
the wind faster than you can swim. So, if you let it go for just a
moment while trying to board it, it will take off and leaving you
exhausted, and distract and confuse the rescue team.
Guess what, in the recent north cape trip, with quite a few water
crossings, I left the dingy home. It saves 7 kilo's. And I didn't know
where to put it anyway, without risk of having it either flying through
the cockpit (the deceleration when ditching seems to be enormous) or
stowed it securely away making it hard to retrieve it when needed from a
possibly sinking or inverted airplane.
For sale: Dingy. Never used. 7 kilos. 4-6 persons. In new condition.
Frans
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: wing lift/drag pins |
Hi All.
I do not have a problem myself with the pins, i hope,
However i am interested in anything structural on the aircraft.
With regards to my eye,s being wrong, not saying i have it right,
however i need an explanation as to why this bar is in tension.
>From my old instructors days i know lift acts upwards and weight downwards
and with an increase in AA the center of pressure moves forward.
But if i push at the wing tip i am compressing that bar.
So anybody out there , help me out here and explain my error.
Regards.
Alan.
But keep it simple please.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403608#403608
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: wing lift/drag pins |
i did buy a cessna 150 aerobat ,because i could not afford a europa ,the first
annual ,they told me the wings had a couple of patches put on so the wings will
need recovering ,also the seat belts wer ten years old and need replacing 3k
yes thats right for a seat belt ,they also said the engine had filings so thats
another 20k oh and repaint ,,,,so i saved and saved got to 30k and they said
they were to busy to do the work ,,so i bought a europa and sold the cessna
for spares "still wish you had bought a cessna "?
Alan Carter wrote:
> Hi Bud.
> Having read all the post on this, I am beginning to think I should have bought
a Cessna 150.
> Ref ,
> "Just check it and be sure. It is not hard to change out the wing pin, pip pin
or socket hole."
>
> What do you have to do, Ream out oversize holes in the spares bushes,
> to the size of the new pip pins, and do they come in a few different thicknesses
?
>
> And with regards to the front pin which locates the front of the wing into the
fuselage, I would say this pin wants to pull out, ie from drag on the wing,
why is there no pipe]pin here.
> I would say the rear one is in compression so keeps itself in.
>
> Regards.
> Alan
--------
owner g-fizy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403610#403610
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: wing lift/drag pins |
Hi.
Want to keep with the wing attachments.
Think you were being done over,
At today's prices you could buy 3 old Cessna 150s for the price i paid for my Europa.
Owning a Europe is not cheap.with a mag coil at 300. Just had my permit done, the
inspector said are that,s the one with all the mods.
I like the speed of the Europa, and i like the idea that you can detach the wings
for storage, but i am not sure where i would place it in the home built aircraft
chart,
The Cessna 150 the old Cart Horse of the sky , Slow , ugly old ships,( not saying
cart horses are ugly quit the opposite),but both as strong as hell. Done about
8000 hours o C150s and given them hell.
Regards
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403611#403611
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ruptured Fuel Tank |
Hi everyone
In answer to this question, no I haven't but I have read some pretty
awful horror accounts of people who have, so don=99t you think we
ought to see if there is a way to repair a tank in place for the greater
good of the Europa group as a whole?
I=99m an engineer of sorts nuts and bolts man, I don=99t
know much about plastics, glues, composite materials except those used
to build the Europa. Here I found the best way to do a layup was on to
plastic sheet first then in a manageable state transfer it to the
aircraft, yet surprise surprise the layups I did to install the tank
stuck to the tank very well. I have a large inspection plate in the top
of my tank which has allowed access to clean the tank inside etc. In
event of a leak my first cause of action would be to open the inspection
cover and locate the cause but then what, I don=99t know, is there
a glue or filler that could be used to stop up the leak from the inside?
The inspection access hole in the top of my tank is modelled on a copy
of Mod No 10602 and 10004 dated 27th January 1996 and it incorporates a
mounting hole for a capacitance fuel gauge. So far all is OK but I dread
a tank problem. Lets see if the combined knowledge of the Europa group
can come up with an acceptable answer to this problem which in the short
term will get Brian flying again but also allow the rest of us to rest
easy.
Regards Richard
From: brian long
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 9:18 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Ruptured Fuel Tank
Has anyone tried to repair a ruptured fuel tank on their Europa? I have
a one inch split in the base of my tank.
Thanks,
Brian Long
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: wing lift/drag pins |
To answer this, one has to draw the lift and drag vectors on the wing both at low
and high angle of attack (and thus g's at high speeds) and you will see that
the resultant total vector is well ahead of the wings leading edge, meaning
that they are being pulled forward.
There are also vid clips of wing failures on YouTube which show the wings folding
forward.
Cheers,
Pete
A239
On Jun 29, 2013, at 6:14 AM, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>
> Hi All.
> I do not have a problem myself with the pins, i hope,
> However i am interested in anything structural on the aircraft.
>
> With regards to my eye,s being wrong, not saying i have it right,
> however i need an explanation as to why this bar is in tension.
>
>> From my old instructors days i know lift acts upwards and weight downwards
> and with an increase in AA the center of pressure moves forward.
>
> But if i push at the wing tip i am compressing that bar.
>
> So anybody out there , help me out here and explain my error.
>
> Regards.
> Alan.
>
> But keep it simple please.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403608#403608
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: wing lift/drag pins |
Hello Peter.
Allouette Flying Club Biggin Hill, many years ago, ??
Sorry you may well be right , but I am not convinced yet.
To move forward thrust must be greater than drag, and in level flight thrust must
equal drag, this is all from memory, and it was a long ago so some number may
not be correct, however can,t remember all ,but the total drag is made from
a many different types of drag, one being Foam drag or it may have another name!,
but this increases by the square of the speed, all I remember is,( double
the speed 4 times the drag), so think the total force is rearwards.
I do remember seeing a bombing raid, and a bomb falling from above went through
a Superfortress wing and took it clean off, and the only way that went was up.
So I still remain undecided. Does it say in the Europa manual the name of this
bar, I believe it was a mod. Sorry I am such a nuisance, but my old instructor
told me to be sure in your own mind, and that what I have done over the years.
Regards.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403630#403630
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: wing lift/drag pins |
Alan=0AIt's true, at high AOA the wings pull themselves forward as well as
up. Took me a while to get my=0Ahead round this paradox but if you turn the
airplane upside down set it up in high lift configuration then load=0Ait u
p-the wings will pull forwards as well as down. Draw the vectors in and y
ou will see.-=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From:
Alan Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0AS
ent: Saturday, 29 June 2013, 21:50=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: wing lift/dr
eresq@onetel.net>=0A=0AHello Peter.=0AAllouette Flying Club Biggin Hill, ma
ny years ago, ??=0ASorry you may well be right , but I am not convinced yet
.=0ATo move forward thrust must be greater than drag, and in level flight t
hrust must equal drag, this is all from memory, and it was a long ago so so
me number may not be correct, however can,t remember all ,but the total dra
g is made from a many different types of drag, one being Foam drag or it ma
y have another name!, but this increases by the square of the speed, all I
remember is,( double the speed 4 times the drag), so think the total force
is rearwards.=0AI do remember seeing a bombing raid, and a bomb falling fro
m above went through a Superfortress wing and took it clean off, and the on
ly way that went was up.=0ASo I still remain undecided. Does it say in the
Europa manual the name of this bar, I believe it was a mod. Sorry I am such
a nuisance, but my old instructor told me to be sure in your own mind, and
that what I have done over the years.- - =0ARegards.=0AAlan=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtop
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admi
=====
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