Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:24 AM - Test only (Kingsley Hurst)
2. 03:58 AM - Re: Re: wing lift/drag pins (Kingsley Hurst)
3. 07:50 AM - Re: Immersion suits? (graeme bird)
4. 08:11 AM - Gumpy visits Wales (& there be dragons Kevin) (graeme bird)
5. 04:11 PM - Re: wing lift/drag pins (Alan Carter)
6. 04:20 PM - Re: Re: wing lift/drag pins (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
7. 04:25 PM - Re: Gumpy visits Wales (& there be dragons Kevin) (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
8. 05:02 PM - Re: wing lift/drag pins (Alan Carter)
Message 1
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Do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: wing lift/drag pins |
"Alan Carter" wrote . . . .
> So anybody out there , help me out here and explain my error.
Hello again Alan,
Please open the attached file which will hopefully explain the fore and aft
forces on the wings as I understand it.
I'm sure someone will make me aware if I am telling any untruths !
Cheers
Kingsley in Oz
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Immersion suits? |
I can understand the dinghy thingy for a c172 or PA28 but for a classic mono wouldn't
it be better to sit in it and in this case wouldn't the unimersed dry suit
be the best clothing?
In general there will always be a series of unfortunate events and mitigations
are about reducing risk not removing. Sure you may be injured, there may be huge
waves and high winds it might take 3 days to be found
And be dark; but there again it might be flat calm. Just because the mitigation
doesn't remove all risks doesnt mean its not worth having. A suit will certainly
help against sudden cold immersion' which I know from dinghys can make it
hard to breathe and sap energy to climb into anything.
I think DJ discussed the dinghy blowing away in his article.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 75 hours 18 months
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403648#403648
Message 4
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| Subject: | Gumpy visits Wales (& there be dragons Kevin) |
Some great views yesterday approaching Welshpool over Church Stretton, Long Mynd
and then west to the coast at Aberdovey. Turned back before Talybont - anyone
landed there?
Look you though; there were hills, and clouds.
Been thinking about the stopping the prop discussion. Gliders also like the hills,
threatening clouds and thermal weather. Things we power pilots all seem to
shy away from.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 75 hours 18 months
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403650#403650
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc03443_1_145.jpg
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: wing lift/drag pins |
Hello Graham and Kingsley.
Well thank you both very much, Indeed the diagrams show a forward component, and
it says the wings pull forward, and indeed the bracket has a pin through it
which one would associate with pulling forward maybe. , But i am still not convinced
wish i was.
I guess you are all probably right , but i see the possibility of a forward
pull at high angles of attack , but in normal flight i see the a backward
component , this being most of the time in normal flight, so you have both forward
and backward movements of the wing.
But i think you are looking at the lift envelope, so i still think the Total
of all the components is backward, Stall turn or Tail slip the
exceptions.
I have this. It mentions Tensile, But it dose not really state the normal condition
of this bar, well not to me,
This modification introduces a new wing rear-attachment pin with a longer threaded
portion and a
Nyloc nut and load spreading washer added behind the inboard flap hinge-plate to
react the tensile
load in the pin and so increase the tolerance to incorrectly constructed hard points.
In addition,
a tie-bar is incorporated to efficiently react tensile loads between the wing rear
attachments. The
tie-bar forms part of optional Mod 52, however, unless all the other features of
Mod 52 are installed,
no increase in maximum gross weight will be permitted.
I asked a friend who was head of physics he said the same as me.
But We could both be wrong, At the moment my thoughts are mostly backwards but
on High AA possible forward, but i am not sure.
I will follow this up and try to write to somebody Aerodynamics.
As i am really interested now. Maybe i will start with Europa them self, this is
going to take me some time.
But i need to satisfy myself that my understanding is maybe wrong??.
Regards.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403661#403661
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: wing lift/drag pins |
Alan=0Athe thing to remember is that sometime you will hit a sharp edge gus
t which will cause Hi AoA and=0Aif you don't have provision for that load,
ie pip pins through the rear lift pins your wings will clap, forwards.=0AIt
happened to a glider at high speed once over Europe, one of the early hot
ships. The pilot couldn't understand why the wings were in front of him whe
n they came off! Lots of the rest of us didn't understand for a while eithe
r. VECTORS!=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Alan
Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent:
Monday, 1 July 2013, 0:10=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: wing lift/drag pins
netel.net>=0A=0AHello Graham and Kingsley.=0AWell thank you both very much,
Indeed the diagrams show a forward component, and it says the wings pull f
orward, and indeed the bracket has a pin through it which one would associa
te with pulling forward maybe.- , But i am still not convinced wish i was
.=0AI guess you are all probably right , but i see the possibility of a for
ward =0Apull at high angles of attack , but in normal flight i see the a ba
ckward=0Acomponent , this being most of the time in normal flight, so you h
ave both forward and backward movements of the wing.=0ABut i think you are
looking at the lift envelope, so i still think the Total=0Aof all the compo
nents is backward, Stall turn or Tail slip the =0Aexceptions.=0A=0AI have t
his. It mentions Tensile, But it dose not really state the normal condition
of this bar, well not to me,=0AThis modification introduces a new wing rea
r-attachment pin with a longer threaded portion and a=0ANyloc nut and load
spreading washer added behind the inboard flap hinge-plate to react the ten
sile=0Aload in the pin and so increase the tolerance to incorrectly constru
cted hard points. In addition,=0Aa tie-bar is incorporated to efficiently r
eact tensile loads between the wing rear attachments. The=0Atie-bar forms p
art of optional Mod 52, however, unless all the other features of Mod 52 ar
e installed, =0Ano increase in maximum gross weight will be permitted.=0A
=0AI asked a friend who was head of physics he said the same as me.=0ABut W
e could both be wrong, At the moment my thoughts are mostly backwards but o
n High AA possible forward, but i am not sure.=0AI will follow this up and
try to write to somebody Aerodynamics.=0AAs i am really interested now. May
be i will start with Europa them self, this is going to take me some time.
=0ABut i need to satisfy myself that my understanding is maybe wrong??.=0A
- =0A=0ARegards.=0AAlan=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ah
ttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403661#403661=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
==================
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Gumpy visits Wales (& there be dragons Kevin) |
Was in Roger Mill's Classic RH seat once over the hills of Derbyshire, we n
oticed it was waving.-=0AWe cruised about for ten minutes, throttle close
d, 100kts and going up. Silky smooth too.=0AYou just need to understand the
sky. One of the great pleasures in life. Especially later life !:-o=0AGrah
am=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: graeme bird <graeme@gd
bmk.co.uk>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 30 June 2013, 1
6:11=0ASubject: Europa-List: Gumpy visits Wales (& there be dragons Kevin)
.uk>=0A=0ASome great views yesterday approaching Welshpool over Church Stre
tton, Long Mynd and then west to the coast at Aberdovey. Turned back before
Talybont - anyone landed there?=0A=0ALook you though; there were hills, an
d clouds.=0A=0ABeen thinking about the stopping the prop discussion. Glider
s also like the hills, threatening clouds and thermal weather. Things we po
wer pilots all seem to shy away from.=0A=0A--------=0AGraeme Bird=0AG-UMPY
=0AMono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W=0ANewby: 75 hours 18 months =0Ag(a
t)gdbmk.co.uk=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403650#403650=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAttachments:
=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc03443_1_145.jpg=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_
-========================
==============
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: wing lift/drag pins |
Hi Graham.
I understand a little in what you a saying.
In the tail slip the wing is falling backwards to normal flight condition.
The pin would stop the wing from pulling out.
But in normal level flight i see this bar in compression.
At this moment in time, i just can not see how you would get a forward force.
I find Europa.s notes mentioning words like "tie bar",
but i find many of Europa,s notes not to clear as to exactly what the situation
is.
I think this bar is say, in compression 90% of the time and 10% in tension some
of the time, hence the pin.
But what the hell do i know, but im not giving up yet.
Need a little micro transducer between the front wing root to see which the bios
is.
Best Regards.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403665#403665
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