Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:20 AM - Re: wing lift/drag pins (Europaul383)
2. 05:46 AM - Re: SV: Re: wing lift/drag pins (William Daniell)
3. 10:53 AM - Dawn to Dusk Challenge (David Joyce)
4. 11:35 AM - SV: Dawn to Dusk Challenge (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
5. 11:38 AM - Re: Dawn to Dusk Challenge (Max Cointe (Free))
6. 02:03 PM - Re: Dawn to Dusk Challenge (Ivan Shaw)
7. 03:22 PM - Philip Levi at the AGM (Steven Pitt)
8. 07:11 PM - Angle of Incidence on a Classic Taildragger Downunder (Tony Renshaw)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: wing lift/drag pins |
>Also acts,? what else does it do ?
It transfers lift to the fuselage and locates the trailing edge of the wing at
the appropriate angle of incidence (as does the leading edge wing pin).
Builders' Manual Ch 26, P 26-1: "There are two pins in each wing to transfer lift
to the fuselage; one at the leading edge and one, which doubles to take drag
loads, is at the trailing edge."
Ch 27, P 27-1: "The wing lift pins locate into sockets, which are to be attached
to the fuselage sides, and these hold the wing at the determined angle."
>Don't answer that please.
Oops sorry, too late!
Paul M
G-PLPM
XS Mono 912S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403850#403850
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: wing lift/drag pins |
This whole discussion has been fascinating. IMHO lot of the discussion
is
related to the difficulty of describing a three dimensional event in
words
(by the way I admire Frans=92 and Svein=92s grasp of English)
As I understand this and for the purposes of the discussion
Motive power is provided primarily from the fuselage in the form of
1. the engine when running
2. or in its absence the mass of the aircraft which is mostly
concentrated in the fuselage being acted upon by the acceleration
provided
by gravity.
Drag affects the aircraft all over its surface but in level flight the
wings
are forced toward the rear of the aircraft by the relative wind acting
upon
the leading edge.
The wings provide the majority of the lift (a minimal being provided by
the
fuselage) in two ways but can only be created by forward motion with
respect
to the relative wind. (if the relative wind is zero then it wont fly)
1. benouille=B4s effect which is perpendicular to the cord
2. force of the relative wind against the lower surface of the
wing.
I am assuming that this varies in a complex way.
One can see the in level flight the mass of the aircraft is supported by
the
wings and this support is transmitted by the 4 points at which the wings
connect to the fuselage. The force of the relative wind against the
leading
edge trying to fold the wings to the rear of the aircraft is being
counteracted by the rear lift sockets and (I would also guess) by the
main
wing spars. So in this case the tie bar is in compression.
I have difficulty with visualizing how the tie bar could be in tension.
I
suppose that with the relative hitting the lower surface of the wing at
a
high angle of attack on could foresee a force component towards the
front of
the fuselage though not in the direction of flight but it seems hard.
Maybe
Rons engineer can try to explain it to us less technical folks.
I am continually surprised by what I learn on the forum.
Yours
Will
Bogota
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM
SINGLETON
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 09:01
Subject: Re: SV: Europa-List: Re: wing lift/drag pins
Glad I didn't upset everyone {{!-)
Graham
_____
From: Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2013, 14:54
Subject: Re: SV: Europa-List: Re: wing lift/drag pins
Thx Graham,
My sentiments exactly.
And to the question of why the spars are strapped together, and why one
pin
has to be a pip pin, is because we have simple overlapping spars, and
not
fork spars, so the asymmetrical load on the pins wants to twist them
off, as
the spar ends gets forced away from the other spar.
Cheers,
Pete
On Jul 2, 2013, at 8:19 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON
<grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:
Svein
I admire your patience and courtesy,
Message 3
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| Subject: | Dawn to Dusk Challenge |
I am planning an attack on the all time distance record
for the D2D Challenge on Sunday if the weather turns out
as good as currently forecast. It stands at 2500nm
currently, and I calculate that a figure of 8 round UK,
Hebrides Orkney & Shetland mainlands and Ireland will do
the trick! It will need rather a long time in the air
averaging 150kts, but if the weather Gods smile and the
donkey keeps going it might just be possible. Plan to fly
it atFL95 apart from the lower level bit round SE England.
Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ (mono 914 Woodcomp
SR3000W + purpose built, LAA approved 100litre long range
tank)
PS the 3 planes at the top of the distance record list
are:
1 Beech Baron;
2. Mooney;
3. Hawk Jet!!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Dawn to Dusk Challenge |
Hi David,
I wish you all the best of luck - wouldn't that be something, a Europa on
top of the list!!
Regards,
Svein
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Dawn to Dusk Challenge |
Hi David,
May the weather Gods and saint-Rotax be with you but I'm sure all the Europa
fellows will!
Max Cointe
mcointe@free.fr
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 450 hours
F-PLDJ DynAro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1550 heures
-----Message d'origine-----
De: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de David Joyce
Envoy: mercredi 3 juillet 2013 19:53
: europa list
Objet: Europa-List: Dawn to Dusk Challenge
--> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
I am planning an attack on the all time distance record for the D2D
Challenge on Sunday if the weather turns out as good as currently forecast.
It stands at 2500nm currently, and I calculate that a figure of 8 round UK,
Hebrides Orkney & Shetland mainlands and Ireland will do the trick! It will
need rather a long time in the air averaging 150kts, but if the weather Gods
smile and the donkey keeps going it might just be possible. Plan to fly it
atFL95 apart from the lower level bit round SE England.
Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ (mono 914 Woodcomp SR3000W + purpose built,
LAA approved 100litre long range tank)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Dawn to Dusk Challenge |
David,
Good luck and following winds.
Ivan
Sent from my iPad
On 3 Jul 2013, at 18:52, "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
> I am planning an attack on the all time distance record for the D2D Challenge
on Sunday if the weather turns out as good as currently forecast. It stands at
2500nm currently, and I calculate that a figure of 8 round UK, Hebrides Orkney
& Shetland mainlands and Ireland will do the trick! It will need rather a long
time in the air averaging 150kts, but if the weather Gods smile and the donkey
keeps going it might just be possible. Plan to fly it atFL95 apart from the
lower level bit round SE England.
> Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ (mono 914 Woodcomp SR3000W + purpose built, LAA
approved 100litre long range tank)
> PS the 3 planes at the top of the distance record list are:
> 1 Beech Baron;
> 2. Mooney;
> 3. Hawk Jet!!
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Philip Levi at the AGM |
Philip,
Sorry to send this through the Matronics site but I do not have your email.
You were taking photos at the AGM. Can you let us have sight of them for the
Magazine, please.
Thanks
Steve Pitt
Chairman
Message 8
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| Subject: | Angle of Incidence on a Classic Taildragger Downunder |
Gidday,
I have set up my port wing, pulling it in tight agains the rear face of the cockpit
module and setting the incidence. I've used a digital level and upon bonding
on the LE lift pin socket I found the incidence had changed nominally. I have
attempted to make a small adjustment with the TE socket position which is
reduced but not bolted, yet. It was suggested that I could twist the spar nominally
to get the angle accurate but to be honest I didn't like doing that although
I suppose it wouldn't have mattered that much because we might only be talking
about a % of a single degree of twist. Still, I didn't like that idea. Suffice
to say I now somehow have 2.8 degrees which is to me unacceptable, BUT,
its a lot of work to undo things. That probably isn't completely true as I only
have the sockets mounted with Redux, so I could heat them and snap them off
and start again, but I worry I'm going to do a lot of work and may well end up
right back where I've started. My pins fit nicely in the back of the seat, and
that took a lot of mucking around, and I worry that to undo things and redo
them I mightn't get the same result. I want to know what people think of this
angle, whether anyone else has not set it perfectly, what difference they perceive
it might make on their plane, and whether anyone has factual consequence
of it not being 100% right. I do worry only about the relationship of the tailplane
to the wing, but having a fully flyable tailplane removes some of the problems
of not having a perfect AoI. The impact could be however that at optimum
in trim cruise the tailplane may be at a slightly different angle at an optimum
CoG, and the full range of pitch may be not what was originally planned.
So, if anyone has advice I'd really appreciate input. I should also add that I
am building a taildraggers, a Bob Berube mod from Florida, which relies on the
same moments as the mono wheel by having the design such that the a/c has a similar
stature on the ground. Maybe the higher AoI might be a bonus, and help
me fly away better, climb better, but no go quite as fast. To be honest, I don't
care anymore as I would prefer to not have to undo stuff I have done. I'm becoming
pretty good at that but unfortunately keep practicing the skill.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
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