Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:11 AM - Re: Re: Old Classic needs upgrade to 912S 100hp (Pete Lawless)
2. 01:49 AM - Re: Re: Is bonding FL16 to fuse a bad idea? (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
3. 02:24 AM - Re: Tri-gear Flap Cross Tube Slot Length (Frans Veldman)
4. 02:29 AM - Re: Tri-gear Flap Cross Tube Slot Length (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
5. 05:19 AM - Re: Tri-gear Flap Cross Tube Slot Length (Ivan Shaw)
6. 05:24 AM - oil change with oil thermostat (Karl Heindl)
7. 06:02 AM - Re: oil change with oil thermostat (richard)
8. 06:15 AM - Re: Outrigger Wheel Fork (richard)
9. 06:15 AM - Re: Tri-gear Flap Cross Tube Slot Length (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
10. 07:06 AM - Re: oil change with oil thermostat (Karl Heindl)
11. 09:28 AM - A promotional e-mail ....don't read it if it offends you !......... Torque Tube Clamp Mod. (Bob Harrison)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Old Classic needs upgrade to 912S 100hp |
Hi Jonathan
It would be very interesting to get a good comparison of performance for 80
v 100 hp in the same airframe.
If you could assemble some before and after figures for take off roll,
initial climb and a 5 minute timed climb that would be good. Also be
interesting to see how fuel economy is affected. Obviously you would be
trying to get weight, wind and temperature similar.
I was considering a similar swap last year, but could not justify the
expense for the 2 or 3 days a year when our strip seems shorter than usual.
Regards
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jonathanmilbank
Sent: 29 July 2013 23:00
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Old Classic needs upgrade to 912S 100hp
Thanks Dave and I'll take your good advice. When I do the preflight oil tank
gurgling on my 80hp engine and then do it on a friend's 100hp 912S,
the difference in compression is very noticeable. Hence my concern about
whether the older starter motors can cope.
Anyway I've now purchased my 2nd hand replacement engine from Kevin Dilks,
sight unseen. Why do I have the confidence to do this? Well, his reputation
goes before him for restoring Rotax engines to near-mint condition and
another friend has found him to give excellent advice on problems, free of
charge and his suggestions work.
Also he was described to me as "a good chap" by no less than Neville Eyre.
Recommendations don't come higher than that!
Furthermore he's selling me a 230 hour engine which has been opened, checked
carefully and every conceivable part that needed replacing was done with new
components. I'm assured that when he says he's done that, you can bet your
bottom dollar that he has.
Finally my experience with Rotax 4-strokes tells me that provided they're
serviced and operated properly, you can place great faith in them.
I have no qualms and will be collecting the 100 horses on Wednesday.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405615#405615
--
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Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Is bonding FL16 to fuse a bad idea? |
exactly what I did Kingsley=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________
________=0A From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan@westnet.com.au>=0ATo: europa-li
st@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, 30 July 2013, 1:10=0ASubject: Re: Europa
-List: Re: Is bonding FL16 to fuse a bad idea?=0A =0A=0A--> Europa-List mes
sage posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <kingsnjan@westnet.com.au>=0A=0ARon,=0A=0A
This suggestion may help you with your perceived problem.=0A=0ADrill a 3/32
" or 7/64" hole right through an AN3 bolt and use this bolt to temporarily
assemble a FL16 / FL18 combination.- The string line (fishing line in my
case) can now be run through the hollow bolt and the FL16 can be clamped to
the lugs on the cross tube for alignment of the hinge point.- It made my
=============
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Tri-gear Flap Cross Tube Slot Length |
On 07/29/2013 11:25 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
> don't use 30 degree flap, Europa tested it and found you are starting to
> lose aileron control at the low speeds achieved in ground effect.
I have some trouble believing this (and even when it is true it is
questionable whether this is still a valid reason for the XS with the
increased aileron span and with more powerfull engines).
With higher flap settings you are getting more drag than additional
lift. With 10% more flap (30 degree instead of 27) you will get maybe
just 5% more lift. If the ailerons are inadequate for this tiny bit of
extra lift I think they would have difficulties handling 27 degrees as
well. Furthermore, in the XS the ailerons are substantially increased in
lenght, significantly more than 5%, and should have much more control
power at low speeds! Even if control problems were the limiting factor,
than it is questionable whether the same limit would still be needed for
the XS.
I thought that the limitation in flap was because of the 80hp engine
used for the certification, which might have lacked sufficient power to
exercise a go around with full flaps under full load (which is, if I
remember correctly, a certification requirement. For the same reason the
older Cessna's have 40 degree flaps, where the newer ones have 30 degree
which was instantly rewarded with a 30Kg higher MTOW without any
structural changes).
Furthermore, in the tri gear the fact that you have the option to use 30
degree flaps doesn't mean that you will have to use this all the time.
There are situations where more flap would be welcome, and there might
be situations where using less flap would be better. I can't see the
benefit of the 26 degree limit. Of course for the mono you have no other
option than to land with full flaps, so maybe in this case the
limitation is justified.
I know folks having drilled a new hole in the lugs on the flap control
tube, so that the actuator can drive the flap further (and faster). No
control difficulties are observed even in quite a few nasty situations
with 30 knots wind and lots of turbulence. Instead the short field
capabilities are somewhat improved.
Regards,
Frans
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Tri-gear Flap Cross Tube Slot Length |
Frans=0AI was talking about monowheel in ground effect.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Frans Veldman <frans@privat
epilots.nl>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, 30 July 2013,
10:23=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Tri-gear Flap Cross Tube Slot Length=0A
.nl>=0A=0AOn 07/29/2013 11:25 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:=0A=0A> don't use
30 degree flap, Europa tested it and found you are starting to=0A> lose ail
eron control at the low speeds achieved in ground effect.=0A=0AI have some
trouble believing this (and even when it is true it is=0Aquestionable wheth
er this is still a valid reason for the XS with the=0Aincreased aileron spa
n and with more powerfull engines).=0A=0AWith higher flap settings you are
getting more drag than additional=0Alift. With 10% more flap (30 degree ins
tead of 27) you will get maybe=0Ajust 5% more lift. If the ailerons are ina
dequate for this tiny bit of=0Aextra lift I think they would have difficult
ies handling 27 degrees as=0Awell. Furthermore, in the XS the ailerons are
substantially increased in=0Alenght, significantly more than 5%, and should
have much more control=0Apower at low speeds! Even if control problems wer
e the limiting factor,=0Athan it is questionable whether the same limit wou
ld still be needed for=0Athe XS.=0A=0AI thought that the limitation in flap
was because of the 80hp engine=0Aused for the certification, which might h
ave lacked sufficient power to=0Aexercise a go around with full flaps under
full load (which is, if I=0Aremember correctly, a certification requiremen
t. For the same reason the=0Aolder Cessna's have 40 degree flaps, where the
newer ones have 30 degree=0Awhich was instantly rewarded with a 30Kg highe
r MTOW without any=0Astructural changes).=0A=0AFurthermore, in the tri gear
the fact that you have the option to use 30=0Adegree flaps doesn't mean th
at you will have to use this all the time.=0AThere are situations where mor
e flap would be welcome, and there might=0Abe situations where using less f
lap would be better. I can't see the=0Abenefit of the 26 degree limit. Of c
ourse for the mono you have no other=0Aoption than to land with full flaps,
so maybe in this case the=0Alimitation is justified.=0A=0AI know folks hav
ing drilled a new hole in the lugs on the flap control=0Atube, so that the
actuator can drive the flap further (and faster). No=0Acontrol difficulties
are observed even in quite a few nasty situations=0Awith 30 knots wind and
lots of turbulence. Instead the short field=0Acapabilities are somewhat im
=========================0A
=
Message 5
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Subject: | Tri-gear Flap Cross Tube Slot Length |
I tested the flaps down to 40 degrees, ailerons worked just fine.
Ivan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans Veldman
Sent: 30 July 2013 10:23
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tri-gear Flap Cross Tube Slot Length
--> <frans@privatepilots.nl>
On 07/29/2013 11:25 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
> don't use 30 degree flap, Europa tested it and found you are starting
> to lose aileron control at the low speeds achieved in ground effect.
I have some trouble believing this (and even when it is true it is
questionable whether this is still a valid reason for the XS with the
increased aileron span and with more powerfull engines).
With higher flap settings you are getting more drag than additional lift.
With 10% more flap (30 degree instead of 27) you will get maybe just 5% more
lift. If the ailerons are inadequate for this tiny bit of extra lift I think
they would have difficulties handling 27 degrees as well. Furthermore, in
the XS the ailerons are substantially increased in lenght, significantly
more than 5%, and should have much more control power at low speeds! Even if
control problems were the limiting factor, than it is questionable whether
the same limit would still be needed for the XS.
I thought that the limitation in flap was because of the 80hp engine used
for the certification, which might have lacked sufficient power to exercise
a go around with full flaps under full load (which is, if I remember
correctly, a certification requirement. For the same reason the older
Cessna's have 40 degree flaps, where the newer ones have 30 degree which was
instantly rewarded with a 30Kg higher MTOW without any structural changes).
Furthermore, in the tri gear the fact that you have the option to use 30
degree flaps doesn't mean that you will have to use this all the time.
There are situations where more flap would be welcome, and there might be
situations where using less flap would be better. I can't see the benefit of
the 26 degree limit. Of course for the mono you have no other option than to
land with full flaps, so maybe in this case the limitation is justified.
I know folks having drilled a new hole in the lugs on the flap control tube,
so that the actuator can drive the flap further (and faster). No control
difficulties are observed even in quite a few nasty situations with 30 knots
wind and lots of turbulence. Instead the short field capabilities are
somewhat improved.
Regards,
Frans
Message 6
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Subject: | oil change with oil thermostat |
After installation of the oil thermostat and new cooler I am about to put i
n the oil. It just occurred to me that the thermostat will block the cold o
il from circulating. Should I pre-heat the oil=2C or what is the recommende
d technique ?Any good ideas much appreciated.
Karl
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: oil change with oil thermostat |
Hi Karl. The oil thermostat will always have a bypass function so there
is no possibility of starving the engine of oil when cold. I have one
fitted and it works very well.
Do remember to re-prime the oil system as per the Rotax manual i.e.
remove one set of plugs and turn the engine over on the starter motor
until you get oil pressure .
Regards Richard
From: Karl Heindl
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 1:23 PM
Subject: Europa-List: oil change with oil thermostat
After installation of the oil thermostat and new cooler I am about to
put in the oil. It just occurred to me that the thermostat will block
the cold oil from circulating. Should I pre-heat the oil, or what is the
recommended technique ?
Any good ideas much appreciated.
Karl
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Outrigger Wheel Fork |
Hi That sounded like an exciting landing, which is why I have a
Tri-gear. I have outrigger bits available give me a ring on 01327 260045
or email rcollings@talktalk.net
From: Dave Moore
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 11:37 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Outrigger Wheel Fork
Hello Folks,
Does anyone (in the UK) have a spare outrigger wheel fork that they
would be willing to part with, for a modest consideration..?
I suspect that Trigear conversions should mean that there are a good few
spare ones scattered around the Europa community.
I guess it=99s only fair to say why I=99m seeking a
replacement =93 not that you couldn=99t guess..! I managed
to grind the wheel fork sleeve down to a knife edge by a reasonably
dramatic swerve, landing on a wide tarmac runway. Ground loop..? No,
no, no. Well, Yes.!
Fortunately, I did not hit anything or break anything else =93 bar
grind the nylon leg as well, I=99ve procured a replacement via the
Factory.
Yes, I=99ve undergone tailwheel conversion training, LAA coaching
on the Mono and had my hand held a lot by some experienced monowheel
Europa-ists. But, I am still a Mono novice and I was exceedingly rusty,
and I should have got myself current again on a grass strip, and I
should have controlled my speed better, and I should have flared more
and held off longer, and landed with no yaw, and been more aware of the
(light) cross wind, and gone around when I bounced.
And, I am going to persevere with the Mono configuration. (For the
moment, anyway..!!)
Yours soberly,
Dave
Dave Moore
Mono G-FITY
Email: mooredca@tiscali.co.uk
Home Tel: 01224 572041
Mobile: +44 (0)777 555 3772
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Tri-gear Flap Cross Tube Slot Length |
Not what you told me re the monowheel!=0AG=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________
______________=0A From: Ivan Shaw <ivanshaw@btinternet.com>=0ATo: europa-li
st@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, 30 July 2013, 13:18=0ASubject: RE: Europ
a-List: Tri-gear Flap Cross Tube Slot Length=0A =0A=0A--> Europa-List messa
ge posted by: "Ivan Shaw" <ivanshaw@btinternet.com>=0A=0AI tested the flaps
down to 40 degrees, ailerons worked just fine.=0AIvan=0A=0A-----Original M
essage-----=0AFrom: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-
europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans Veldman=0ASent: 30 Jul
y 2013 10:23=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Tr
Frans Veldman =0A--> <frans@privatepilots.nl>=0A=0AOn 07/29/2013 11:25 AM,
GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:=0A=0A> don't use 30 degree flap, Europa tested it a
nd found you are starting =0A> to lose aileron control at the low speeds ac
hieved in ground effect.=0A=0AI have some trouble believing this (and even
when it is true it is=0Aquestionable whether this is still a valid reason f
or the XS with the=0Aincreased aileron span and with more powerfull engines
).=0A=0AWith higher flap settings you are getting more drag than additional
lift.=0AWith 10% more flap (30 degree instead of 27) you will get maybe ju
st 5% more=0Alift. If the ailerons are inadequate for this tiny bit of extr
a lift I think=0Athey would have difficulties handling 27 degrees as well.
Furthermore, in=0Athe XS the ailerons are substantially increased in lenght
, significantly=0Amore than 5%, and should have much more control power at
low speeds! Even if=0Acontrol problems were the limiting factor, than it is
questionable whether=0Athe same limit would still be needed for the XS.=0A
=0AI thought that the limitation in flap was because of the 80hp engine use
d=0Afor the certification, which might have lacked sufficient power to exer
cise=0Aa go around with full flaps under full load (which is, if I remember
=0Acorrectly, a certification requirement. For the same reason the older=0A
Cessna's have 40 degree flaps, where the newer ones have 30 degree which wa
s=0Ainstantly rewarded with a 30Kg higher MTOW without any structural chang
es).=0A=0AFurthermore, in the tri gear the fact that you have the option to
use 30=0Adegree flaps doesn't mean that you will have to use this all the
time.=0AThere are situations where more flap would be welcome, and there mi
ght be=0Asituations where using less flap would be better. I can't see the
benefit of=0Athe 26 degree limit. Of course for the mono you have no other
option than to=0Aland with full flaps, so maybe in this case the limitation
is justified.=0A=0AI know folks having drilled a new hole in the lugs on t
he flap control tube,=0Aso that the actuator can drive the flap further (an
d faster). No control=0Adifficulties are observed even in quite a few nasty
situations with 30 knots=0Awind and lots of turbulence. Instead the short
field capabilities are=0Asomewhat improved.=0A=0ARegards,=0AFrans=0A=0A=0A
=========================0A
===================
Message 10
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Subject: | oil change with oil thermostat |
thank you very much Richard=2C that's a relief. i will watch the rotax vide
o again=2C and also apply pressure into the oil container via the vent.Karl
From: rcollings@talktalk.net
Subject: Re: Europa-List: oil change with oil thermostat
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Hi Karl. The oil thermostat will always have a bypass function so there is
=0A
no possibility of starving the engine of oil when cold. I have one fitted a
nd it =0A
works very well. =0A
Do remember to re-prime the oil system as per the Rotax manual i.e. remove
=0A
one set of plugs and turn the engine over on the starter motor until you ge
t oil =0A
pressure .=0A
Regards Richard =0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
From: Karl Heindl =0A
Sent: Tuesday=2C July 30=2C 2013 1:23 PM=0A
Subject: Europa-List: oil change with oil =0A
thermostat=0A
=0A
=0A
After installation of the oil thermostat and new cooler I am about =0A
to put in the oil. It just occurred to me that the thermostat will block th
e =0A
cold oil from circulating. Should I pre-heat the oil=2C or what is the reco
mmended =0A
technique ? =0A
Any good ideas much appreciated. =0A
=0A
Karl=0A
=0A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
============0A
=0A
Message 11
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Subject: | A promotional e-mail ....don't read it if it offends you |
!......... Torque Tube Clamp Mod.
Europa original torque tube and clamps ( pre the latest Europa re-design of
Torque Tube arrangement )
I have been approached for some more torque tube clamps. Since the last
batch has now been moved on I need to make an economical batch up please
make contact to commit to an order.
Best regards
Bob Harrison. ptag.dev@talktalk.net
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