---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/16/13: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:42 AM - NMEA () 2. 07:57 AM - Re: wing tip light covers (Rob Housman) 3. 09:28 AM - Re: NMEA (Peter Jeffers) 4. 09:35 AM - Re: NMEA (Alan Burrill) 5. 10:57 AM - Re: NMEA (Peter Jeffers) 6. 11:33 AM - Re: NMEA (David Joyce) 7. 11:47 AM - Re: stopping engine in flight (Gary Leinberger) 8. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: stopping engine in flight (David Joyce) 9. 01:19 PM - Re: Re: stopping engine in flight (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 10. 01:40 PM - Re: Re: stopping engine in flight (Ian Cook) 11. 04:04 PM - MG Spins (Karl Heindl) 12. 05:17 PM - Re: Re: stopping engine in flight (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 13. 05:18 PM - Re: MG Spins (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 14. 05:59 PM - Re: Re: stopping engine in flight (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:14 AM PST US From: Subject: Europa-List: NMEA Cheers, I'm off the study of this topic, but can offer a clue. I have a ham program which permits the use of the NMEA protocol. This worthy application includes a series "statements" which allow the GPS receiver to calculate your position, and other qualities. However, it was designed as marine program, wherein ships don't usually change route every few minutes as our aircraft might. Therefore, it is missing a sentence which allows for setting up a series of legs on a flight. This is either RMB or RMC (I think the former - experts please correct). I have failed to discover a device - other than the multi-buck aircraft navs - which include this vital sentence. For clarity why not consult Wikipedia, which explains it far better than I what the sentences are. It's marvellous - and shouldn't leave anyone 'cold'. hey, Ferg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:28 AM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: wing tip light covers I'm ready to buy. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS A070 Rotax 914 Airframe complete Avionics a work in progress -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 12:29 PM Subject: Europa-List: wing tip light covers All...please contact me if you have any interest in ordering a set of clear polycarbonate wing tip light covers...I'll be making a run of them shortly. I offer the light cover only, but in my installation, I have fitted LED position lights, strobes, and a halogen landing light for a neat, no drag installation. Photo below...nice winter project! Cheers, Fred ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:28:11 AM PST US From: " Peter Jeffers" Subject: RE: Europa-List: NMEA Hi Ferg, I have this very afternoon instructed my Lowrance to transmit NMEA version 2 configured to RMC & RMB to the autopilot. If you are correct with your statement below then with any luck on Sunday my Auto pilot may just take me to the Laddingford Europa fly in all by itself. I await being amazed by technology that I do not understand. Ferg many thanks for your input. Pete _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of f.kyle@sympatico.ca Sent: 16 August 2013 15:42 Subject: Europa-List: NMEA Cheers, I'm off the study of this topic, but can offer a clue. I have a ham program which permits the use of the NMEA protocol. This worthy application includes a series "statements" which allow the GPS receiver to calculate your position, and other qualities. However, it was designed as marine program, wherein ships don't usually change route every few minutes as our aircraft might. Therefore, it is missing a sentence which allows for setting up a series of legs on a flight. This is either RMB or RMC (I think the former - experts please correct). I have failed to discover a device - other than the multi-buck aircraft navs - which include this vital sentence. For clarity why not consult Wikipedia, which explains it far better than I what the sentences are. It's marvellous - and shouldn't leave anyone 'cold'. hey, Ferg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: NMEA From: Alan Burrill Peter, well done. Alan Sent from my iPad On 16 Aug 2013, at 17:27, " Peter Jeffers" wrote: > Hi Ferg, > > I have this very afternoon instructed my Lowrance to transmit NMEA version 2 configured to RMC & RMB to the autopilot. If you are correct with your s tatement below then with any luck on Sunday my Auto pilot may just take me t o the Laddingford Europa fly in all by itself. I await being amazed by tech nology that I do not understand. > Ferg many thanks for your input. > > Pete > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of f.kyle@sympatico.ca > Sent: 16 August 2013 15:42 > To: 5EUROPALIST > Subject: Europa-List: NMEA > > Cheers, > I=99m off the study of this topic, but can offer a clue. I have a ham program which permits the use of the NMEA protocol. This worth y application includes a series =9Cstatements=9D which allow the GPS receiver to calculate your position, and other qualities. However, it w as designed as marine program, wherein ships don=99t usually change r oute every few minutes as our aircraft might. Therefore, it is missing a sen tence which allows for setting up a series of legs on a flight. This is eith er RMB or RMC (I think the former - experts please correct). I have failed t o discover a device - other than the multi-buck aircraft navs - which includ e this vital sentence. For clarity why not consult Wikipedia, which explains it far better than I what the sentences are. It=99s marvellous - and s houldn=99t leave anyone =98cold=99. > hey, > Ferg > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:57:46 AM PST US From: " Peter Jeffers" Subject: RE: Europa-List: NMEA Thanks also to you Alan. May have to withdraw it if I end up in LCZ. Pete _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Burrill Sent: 16 August 2013 17:35 Subject: Re: Europa-List: NMEA Peter, well done. Alan Sent from my iPad On 16 Aug 2013, at 17:27, " Peter Jeffers" wrote: Hi Ferg, I have this very afternoon instructed my Lowrance to transmit NMEA version 2 configured to RMC & RMB to the autopilot. If you are correct with your statement below then with any luck on Sunday my Auto pilot may just take me to the Laddingford Europa fly in all by itself. I await being amazed by technology that I do not understand. Ferg many thanks for your input. Pete _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of f.kyle@sympatico.ca Sent: 16 August 2013 15:42 Subject: Europa-List: NMEA Cheers, I'm off the study of this topic, but can offer a clue. I have a ham program which permits the use of the NMEA protocol. This worthy application includes a series "statements" which allow the GPS receiver to calculate your position, and other qualities. However, it was designed as marine program, wherein ships don't usually change route every few minutes as our aircraft might. Therefore, it is missing a sentence which allows for setting up a series of legs on a flight. This is either RMB or RMC (I think the former - experts please correct). I have failed to discover a device - other than the multi-buck aircraft navs - which include this vital sentence. For clarity why not consult Wikipedia, which explains it far better than I what the sentences are. It's marvellous - and shouldn't leave anyone 'cold'. hey, Ferg http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:57 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: NMEA Pete, My autopilot will be be taking me there as well on Sunday. Do you think we should introduce them or just wait for them to bump into each other? Regards, David, G- XSDJ On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 17:27:20 +0100 " Peter Jeffers" wrote: > Hi Ferg, > > > > I have this very afternoon instructed my Lowrance to >transmit NMEA version 2 > configured to RMC & RMB to the autopilot. If you are >correct with your > statement below then with any luck on Sunday my Auto >pilot may just take me > to the Laddingford Europa fly in all by itself. I await >being amazed by > technology that I do not understand. > >Ferg many thanks for your input. > > > > Pete > > > > _____ > >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On >Behalf Of > f.kyle@sympatico.ca > Sent: 16 August 2013 15:42 > To: 5EUROPALIST > Subject: Europa-List: NMEA > > > > Cheers, > > I'm off the study of this topic, but can >offer a clue. I have a > ham program which permits the use of the NMEA protocol. >This worthy > application includes a series "statements" which allow >the GPS receiver to > calculate your position, and other qualities. However, >it was designed as > marine program, wherein ships don't usually change route >every few minutes > as our aircraft might. Therefore, it is missing a >sentence which allows for > setting up a series of legs on a flight. This is either >RMB or RMC (I think > the former - experts please correct). I have failed to >discover a device - > other than the multi-buck aircraft navs - which include >this vital sentence. >For clarity why not consult Wikipedia, which explains it >far better than I > what the sentences are. It's marvellous - and shouldn't >leave anyone 'cold'. > > hey, > >Ferg > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:38 AM PST US From: Gary Leinberger Subject: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight I have a Tri-Gear 912S Europa. As part of the requirement for my Motor Glid er endorsement (US) I had to feather the prop, stop the engine and do some gliding. I have a three bladed Airmaster Prop with the feather option. With the short wings and the engine off, prop feathered, I show about 600 fpm d own with no thermal activity. (I was at about 6000 feet, above the tops of the cumulus clouds in the area so I haven't tried this in a thermal yet.) P lane is a bit heavy (full IFR) and I am a proper sized American - 265 lbs. And I had an instructor on board. So a lighter plane (and pilot) may do bet ter. Should have the long wings done soon (I have given up on estimating co mpletion dates) and will provide some better info on soaring then. The 912S is a high compression engine, unlike the 912 and 914. So the prop will stop when the ignition is off even if not feathered. It is also hard t o start by diving alone although I have heard that a serious dive will fina lly get the prop wind-milling high enough for a start - I think you need at least 300 + rpm to get a charge out of the ignition system. For mine a s light dive (100 knots) will start to move the blades a bit, and a mere touc h of the starter lights it off. The feathering and un-feathering takes a bit of time - which I imagine will seem even longer if you wait too long when running out of lift. Gary Leinberger Lancaster, Pa. N388SG ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:20 PM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight Gary, Do you have a prop windmilling figure to compare it with? Regards, David Joyce, G- XSDJ On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:47:07 -0400 Gary Leinberger wrote: > I have a Tri-Gear 912S Europa. As part of the >requirement for my Motor Glider endorsement (US) I had to >feather the prop, stop the engine and do some gliding. I >have a three bladed Airmaster Prop with the feather >option. With the short wings and the engine off, prop >feathered, I show about 600 fpm down with no thermal >activity. (I was at about 6000 feet, above the tops of >the cumulus clouds in the area so I haven't tried this in >a thermal yet.) Plane is a bit heavy (full IFR) and I am >a proper sized American - 265 lbs. And I had an >instructor on board. So a lighter plane (and pilot) may >do better. Should have the long wings done soon (I have >given up on estimating completion dates) and will provide >some better info on soaring then. > The 912S is a high compression engine, unlike the 912 >and 914. So the prop will stop when the ignition is off >even if not feathered. It is also hard to start by diving >alone although I have heard that a serious dive will >finally get the prop wind-milling high enough for a start >- I think you need at least 300 + rpm to get a charge >out of the ignition system. For mine a slight dive (100 >knots) will start to move the blades a bit, and a mere >touch of the starter lights it off. > The feathering and un-feathering takes a bit of time - >which I imagine will seem even longer if you wait too >long when running out of lift. > Gary Leinberger > Lancaster, Pa. > N388SG ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:19:54 PM PST US From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight Hi Gary, We have a Europa XS with a 912S and Airmaster prop and long wings. We were interested in two important questions; when will it stop wind milling, and when will it do an air restart (in case we run the battery dead flying around with the alternator not charging). We found the stop wind milling speed to be around 50 kts, and the air restart at around 110 kts. These seemed near perfect speeds, by our reckoning. BTW, we got a glide ratio of about 23:1 initially, but got up to almost 26:1 by; 1) adding a cowl flap to the bottom of the cowl (behind the radiators). 2) adding fairings to the non-retractable outrigger legs. regards, Terry ________________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of Gary Leinberger [Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu] Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 11:47 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight I have a Tri-Gear 912S Europa. As part of the requirement for my Motor Glider endorsement (US) I had to feather the prop, stop the engine and do some gliding. I have a three bladed Airmaster Prop with the feather option. With the short wings and the engine off, prop feathered, I show about 600 fpm down with no thermal activity. (I was at about 6000 feet, above the tops of the cumulus clouds in the area so I havent tried this in a thermal yet.) Plane is a bit heavy (full IFR) and I am a proper sized American 265 lbs. And I had an instructor on board. So a lighter plane (and pilot) may do better. Should have the long wings done soon (I have given up on estimating completion dates) and will provide some better info on soaring then. The 912S is a high compression engine, unlike the 912 and 914. So the prop will stop when the ignition is off even if not feathered. It is also hard to start by diving alone although I have heard that a serious dive will finally get the prop wind-milling high enough for a start I think you need at least 300 + rpm to get a charge out of the ignition system. For mine a slight dive (100 knots) will start to move the blades a bit, and a mere touch of the starter lights it off. The feathering and un-feathering takes a bit of time which I imagine will seem even longer if you wait too long when running out of lift. Gary Leinberger Lancaster, Pa. N388SG ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:59 PM PST US From: "Ian Cook" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight Terry, We have just finished the spinning trials in my mono motor glider after two years of trying to satisfy the LAA (UK) requirements to get a Permit to Fly, so was very interested in your comments, especially about blocking of the cooling ducts to improve the LD ratio, do you have any further details that you can make available? I had the company (Europa) fit small wing tip wheels to my wings so I can take the outriggers off completely if I want to go wave flying. Is your machine a mono or Tri-gear? Best Regards Ian Cook G-CBHI -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Seaver (terrys) Sent: 16 August 2013 21:19 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight --> Hi Gary, We have a Europa XS with a 912S and Airmaster prop and long wings. We were interested in two important questions; when will it stop wind milling, and when will it do an air restart (in case we run the battery dead flying around with the alternator not charging). We found the stop wind milling speed to be around 50 kts, and the air restart at around 110 kts. These seemed near perfect speeds, by our reckoning. BTW, we got a glide ratio of about 23:1 initially, but got up to almost 26:1 by; 1) adding a cowl flap to the bottom of the cowl (behind the radiators). 2) adding fairings to the non-retractable outrigger legs. regards, Terry ________________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of Gary Leinberger [Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu] Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 11:47 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight I have a Tri-Gear 912S Europa. As part of the requirement for my Motor Glider endorsement (US) I had to feather the prop, stop the engine and do some gliding. I have a three bladed Airmaster Prop with the feather option. With the short wings and the engine off, prop feathered, I show about 600 fpm down with no thermal activity. (I was at about 6000 feet, above the tops of the cumulus clouds in the area so I haven't tried this in a thermal yet.) Plane is a bit heavy (full IFR) and I am a proper sized American - 265 lbs. And I had an instructor on board. So a lighter plane (and pilot) may do better. Should have the long wings done soon (I have given up on estimating completion dates) and will provide some better info on soaring then. The 912S is a high compression engine, unlike the 912 and 914. So the prop will stop when the ignition is off even if not feathered. It is also hard to start by diving alone although I have heard that a serious dive will finally get the prop wind-milling high enough for a start - I think you need at least 300 + rpm to get a charge out of the ignition system. For mine a slight dive (100 knots) will start to move the blades a bit, and a mere touch of the starter lights it off. The feathering and un-feathering takes a bit of time - which I imagine will seem even longer if you wait too long when running out of lift. Gary Leinberger Lancaster, Pa. N388SG ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:36 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: Europa-List: MG Spins Hi Terry=2C This is the first note I have seen about spinning the motorglider. Could yo u give us details please about recovery and height loss per rotation ? I ha ve been unable to stall mine in level or descending flight and I have been reluctant to force a spin without knowing that it would be okay. Cheers=2C Karl > From: iancook_1@btinternet.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight > Date: Fri=2C 16 Aug 2013 21:40:19 +0100 > > > Terry=2C > We have just finished the spinning trials in my mono motor glide r > after two years of trying to satisfy the LAA (UK) requirements to get a > Permit to Fly=2C so was very interested in your comments=2C especially ab out > blocking of the cooling ducts to improve the LD ratio=2C do you have any > further details that you can make available? I had the company (Europa) f it > small wing tip wheels to my wings so I can take the outriggers off > completely if I want to go wave flying. Is your machine a mono or Tri-gea r? > > Best Regards > > Ian Cook > G-CBHI > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Seaver > (terrys) > Sent: 16 August 2013 21:19 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight > > --> > > Hi Gary=2C > > We have a Europa XS with a 912S and Airmaster prop and long wings. We we re > interested in two important questions=3B when will it stop wind milling =2C and > when will it do an air restart (in case we run the battery dead flying > around with the alternator not charging). We found the stop wind milling > speed to be around 50 kts=2C and the air restart at around 110 kts. Thes e > seemed near perfect speeds=2C by our reckoning. > BTW=2C we got a glide ratio of about 23:1 initially=2C but got up to almo st 26:1 > by=3B > 1) adding a cowl flap to the bottom of the cowl (behind the radiators). > 2) adding fairings to the non-retractable outrigger legs. > > regards=2C > Terry > > ________________________________________ > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of Gary Leinberger > [Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu] > Sent: Friday=2C August 16=2C 2013 11:47 AM > To: 'europa-list@matronics.com' > Subject: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight > > I have a Tri-Gear 912S Europa. As part of the requirement for my Motor > Glider endorsement (US) I had to feather the prop=2C stop the engine and do > some gliding. I have a three bladed Airmaster Prop with the feather optio n. > With the short wings and the engine off=2C prop feathered=2C I show about 600 > fpm down with no thermal activity. (I was at about 6000 feet=2C above the tops > of the cumulus clouds in the area so I haven't tried this in a thermal ye t.) > Plane is a bit heavy (full IFR) and I am a proper sized American - 265 lb s. > And I had an instructor on board. So a lighter plane (and pilot) may do > better. Should have the long wings done soon (I have given up on estimati ng > completion dates) and will provide some better info on soaring then. > The 912S is a high compression engine=2C unlike the 912 and 914. So the p rop > will stop when the ignition is off even if not feathered. It is also hard to > start by diving alone although I have heard that a serious dive will fina lly > get the prop wind-milling high enough for a start - I think you need at > least 300 + rpm to get a charge out of the ignition system. For mine a > slight dive (100 knots) will start to move the blades a bit=2C and a mere > touch of the starter lights it off. > The feathering and un-feathering takes a bit of time - which I imagine wi ll > seem even longer if you wait too long when running out of lift. > Gary Leinberger > Lancaster=2C Pa. > N388SG > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:13 PM PST US From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight We have a mono-wheel. I will see if I have some pics of the cowl flap later on. We used narrow roller blade wheels on the outriggers and fitted aerodynamic fairings to the outrigger legs, using hot wire cut blue foam and shrink sleeve to hold it in place. regards, Terry ________________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of Ian Cook [iancook_1@btinternet.com] Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 1:40 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight Terry, We have just finished the spinning trials in my mono motor glider after two years of trying to satisfy the LAA (UK) requirements to get a Permit to Fly, so was very interested in your comments, especially about blocking of the cooling ducts to improve the LD ratio, do you have any further details that you can make available? I had the company (Europa) fit small wing tip wheels to my wings so I can take the outriggers off completely if I want to go wave flying. Is your machine a mono or Tri-gear? Best Regards Ian Cook G-CBHI -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Seaver (terrys) Sent: 16 August 2013 21:19 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight --> Hi Gary, We have a Europa XS with a 912S and Airmaster prop and long wings. We were interested in two important questions; when will it stop wind milling, and when will it do an air restart (in case we run the battery dead flying around with the alternator not charging). We found the stop wind milling speed to be around 50 kts, and the air restart at around 110 kts. These seemed near perfect speeds, by our reckoning. BTW, we got a glide ratio of about 23:1 initially, but got up to almost 26:1 by; 1) adding a cowl flap to the bottom of the cowl (behind the radiators). 2) adding fairings to the non-retractable outrigger legs. regards, Terry ________________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of Gary Leinberger [Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu] Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 11:47 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight I have a Tri-Gear 912S Europa. As part of the requirement for my Motor Glider endorsement (US) I had to feather the prop, stop the engine and do some gliding. I have a three bladed Airmaster Prop with the feather option. With the short wings and the engine off, prop feathered, I show about 600 fpm down with no thermal activity. (I was at about 6000 feet, above the tops of the cumulus clouds in the area so I haven't tried this in a thermal yet.) Plane is a bit heavy (full IFR) and I am a proper sized American - 265 lbs. And I had an instructor on board. So a lighter plane (and pilot) may do better. Should have the long wings done soon (I have given up on estimating completion dates) and will provide some better info on soaring then. The 912S is a high compression engine, unlike the 912 and 914. So the prop will stop when the ignition is off even if not feathered. It is also hard to start by diving alone although I have heard that a serious dive will finally get the prop wind-milling high enough for a start - I think you need at least 300 + rpm to get a charge out of the ignition system. For mine a slight dive (100 knots) will start to move the blades a bit, and a mere touch of the starter lights it off. The feathering and un-feathering takes a bit of time - which I imagine will seem even longer if you wait too long when running out of lift. Gary Leinberger Lancaster, Pa. N388SG ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:05 PM PST US From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Subject: RE: Europa-List: MG Spins Hi Karl, We have not spun our plane with long wings, that was another participant to this thread. Terry ________________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of Karl Heindl [kheindl@msn.com] Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 4:03 PM Subject: Europa-List: MG Spins Hi Terry, This is the first note I have seen about spinning the motorglider. Could you give us details please about recovery and height loss per rotation ? I have been unable to stall mine in level or descending flight and I have been reluctant to force a spin without knowing that it would be okay. Cheers, Karl > From: iancook_1@btinternet.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight > Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 21:40:19 +0100 > > > Terry, > We have just finished the spinning trials in my mono motor glider > after two years of trying to satisfy the LAA (UK) requirements to get a > Permit to Fly, so was very interested in your comments, especially about > blocking of the cooling ducts to improve the LD ratio, do you have any > further details that you can make available? I had the company (Europa) fit > small wing tip wheels to my wings so I can take the outriggers off > completely if I want to go wave flying. Is your machine a mono or Tri-gear? > > Best Regards > > Ian Cook > G-CBHI > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Seaver > (terrys) > Sent: 16 August 2013 21:19 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight > > --> > > Hi Gary, > > We have a Europa XS with a 912S and Airmaster prop and long wings. We were > interested in two important questions; when will it stop wind milling, and > when will it do an air restart (in case we run the battery dead flying > around with the alternator not charging). We found the stop wind milling > speed to be around 50 kts, and the air restart at around 110 kts. These > seemed near perfect speeds, by our reckoning. > BTW, we got a glide ratio of about 23:1 initially, but got up to almost 26:1 > by; > 1) adding a cowl flap to the bottom of the cowl (behind the radiators). > 2) adding fairings to the non-retractable outrigger legs. > > regards, > Terry > > ________________________________________ > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] on behalf of Gary Leinberger > [Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu] > Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 11:47 AM > To: 'europa-list@matronics.com' > Subject: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight > > I have a Tri-Gear 912S Europa. As part of the requirement for my Motor > Glider endorsement (US) I had to feather the prop, stop the engine and do > some gliding. I have a three bladed Airmaster Prop with the feather option. > With the short wings and the engine off, prop feathered, I show about 600 > fpm down with no thermal activity. (I was at about 6000 feet, above the tops > of the cumulus clouds in the area so I haven't tried this in a thermal yet.) > Plane is a bit heavy (full IFR) and I am a proper sized American - 265 lbs. > And I had an instructor on board. So a lighter plane (and pilot) may do > better. Should have the long wings done soon (I have given up on estimating > completion dates) and will provide some better info on soaring then. > The 912S is a high compression engine, unlike the 912 and 914. So the prop > will stop when the ignition is off even if not feathered. It is also hard to > start by diving alone although I have heard that a serious dive will finally > get the prop wind-milling high enough for a start - I think you need at > least 300 + rpm to get a charge out of the ignition system. For mine a > slight dive (100 knots) will start to move the blades a bit, and a mere > touch of the starter lights it off. > The feathering and un-feathering takes a bit of time - which I imagine will > seem even longer if you wait too long when running out of lift. > Gary Leinberger > Lancaster, Pa. > N388SG > > Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, >========================> > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:28 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: stopping engine in flight On Aug 16, 2013, at 5:16 PM, Terry Seaver (terrys) wrote: > We have a mono-wheel. I will see if I have some pics of the cowl flap later on. We used narrow roller blade wheels on the outriggers and fitted aerodynamic fairings to the outrigger legs, using hot wire cut blue foam and shrink sleeve to hold it in place. Very clever Terry...Fred do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.