---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/20/13: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:29 AM - Re: Navaid Servo (Trevpond@aol.com) 2. 05:22 AM - Re: Re: Wing lift and drag pins (Frans Veldman) 3. 05:49 AM - Re: Navaid Servo (Jeffrey Roberts) 4. 06:09 AM - Re: Re: Wing lift and drag pins (David Joyce) 5. 06:21 AM - Tri Gear Trailer (flyingphil2) 6. 08:58 AM - Europa Tri gear for sale in the Netherlands (jan beton) 7. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: Wing lift and drag pins (Paul McAllister) 8. 09:58 AM - Air Camper -project (Raimo Toivio) 9. 01:34 PM - Re: Air Camper -project (Frans Veldman) 10. 01:36 PM - Re: Air Camper -project (Pete) 11. 02:35 PM - Re: NMEA (Alan Burrill) 12. 11:04 PM - Re: Air Camper -project (Raimo Toivio) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:29:10 AM PST US From: Trevpond@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Navaid Servo Hi Kelvin, I've got a complete Navaid System, Head and Servo. Give me a PM _Trevpond@aol.com_ (mailto:Trevpond@aol.com) and let me have your phone number. best regards Trev G-LINN In a message dated 19/08/2013 22:47:46 GMT Daylight Time, kelvin.cobb@icloud.com writes: --> Europa-List message posted by: Kelvin Cobb Hi, I know it's a long shot but does anyone on the forum have any idea where I can get a navaid servo? I have the AP-1 head already installed/linked to the GPS, but unfortunately there was no sign of the servo when I purchased the aircraft..... Any help gratefully received. Kelvin (G-BZAM) Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:12 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Wing lift and drag pins On 08/20/2013 02:08 AM, Martin Tuck wrote: > So the purpose of diving to VNe as part of the annual inspection is to > determine what? To see whether the aircraft can handle it. The test obviously fulfilled its purpose. On the other hand I would not feel comfortable cruising in an aircraft at 140+ knots without knowing whether it can not even handle 163 knots without breaking apart. I have to admit I flew mine one time inadvertently shortly past Vne (attempting to get down to an assigned altitude before entering the busy Brussels TMA while being distracted by the radio and navigation at the same time) but apart from the ASI needle position there was nothing different than flying at lower speeds. How was the Vne speed actually established? Why was it 163 and not 160, or 170? I don't have the impression that the speed where flutter or other bad things occur has been determined by actual flight- or wind tunnel tests. I have seen other aircraft with exactly the same Vne number. Is this value of 163 knots some sort of default value when no factual data is available? (No, I'm not voluntary going to explore this area. I'm just wondering, especially because the cruise speed is so close to the Vne and the Europa can build up speed very quickly when the pilot is distracted. I also wonder what likely is to happen when the real, likely still unknown, Vne is reached). Frans ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:06 AM PST US From: Jeffrey Roberts Subject: Re: Europa-List: Navaid Servo Kelvin, I have a navaid servo with a trio head. They provide the adapter to your servo and I'm sure you'll love the Trio head much better than the navaid!!! Lots more features and much more accurate. It's worked perfect for me for 5 years! Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush / FOR SALE believe that the Trio servo is compatible. Give them a call On Monday, August 19, 2013, Kelvin Cobb wrote: Hi, I know it's a long shot but does anyone on the forum have any idea where I can get a navaid servo? I have the AP-1 head already installed/linked to the GPS, but unfortunately there was no sign of the servo when I purchased the aircraft..... Any help gratefully received. Kelvin (G-BZAM) Sent from my iPad target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:27 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Wing lift and drag pins Frans, As I understand it VNe (which for me is 165 kts) is 90% of Vdf or demonstrated flight diving speed so that I guess Europa flew the prototypes at 183 kts to give the rest of us a bit of a margin for error. They probably thought that with the designed engines it wasn't likely that folk would want to or be able to go much faster and design theory suggested that 183kts would be OK, always assuming of course that the plane was constructed properly. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 14:21:26 +0200 Frans Veldman wrote: > > > On 08/20/2013 02:08 AM, Martin Tuck wrote: > >> So the purpose of diving to VNe as part of the annual >>inspection is to >> determine what? > > To see whether the aircraft can handle it. The test >obviously fulfilled > its purpose. > > On the other hand I would not feel comfortable cruising >in an aircraft > at 140+ knots without knowing whether it can not even >handle 163 knots > without breaking apart. > I have to admit I flew mine one time inadvertently >shortly past Vne > (attempting to get down to an assigned altitude before >entering the busy > Brussels TMA while being distracted by the radio and >navigation at the > same time) but apart from the ASI needle position there >was nothing > different than flying at lower speeds. > > How was the Vne speed actually established? Why was it >163 and not 160, > or 170? I don't have the impression that the speed where >flutter or > other bad things occur has been determined by actual >flight- or wind > tunnel tests. I have seen other aircraft with exactly >the same Vne > number. Is this value of 163 knots some sort of default >value when no > factual data is available? > > (No, I'm not voluntary going to explore this area. I'm >just wondering, > especially because the cruise speed is so close to the >Vne and the > Europa can build up speed very quickly when the pilot is >distracted. I > also wonder what likely is to happen when the real, >likely still > unknown, Vne is reached). > >Frans > > > > > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:37 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Tri Gear Trailer From: "flyingphil2" I'm told that there is a design of trailer for the Tri-gear that tips the aircraft up on the main wheels which then allows it to fit under a 7' or so barrier (i.e a standard garage door). Anyone got a photo of such a trailer? Thanks, Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407101#407101 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:27 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Europa Tri gear for sale in the Netherlands From: "jan beton" Europa Tri Gear for sale in the Netherlands. See: http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=21471 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407116#407116 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Wing lift and drag pins From: Paul McAllister Dave, (or anyone I guess) Do you happen to know what, into choosing a demonstrated design dive speed (Vdf)? I assume that there some structural consideration for choosing this number? Flutter would be a consideration Paul On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 8:08 AM, David Joyce wrote: > davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> > > > Frans, As I understand it VNe (which for me is 165 kts) is 90% of Vdf or > demonstrated flight diving speed so that I guess Europa flew the > prototypes at 183 kts to give the rest of us a bit of a margin for error. > They probably thought that with the designed engines it wasn't likely that > folk would want to or be able to go much faster and design theory > suggested that 183kts would be OK, always assuming of course that the plane > was constructed properly. Regards, David Joyce, > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:58:55 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Europa-List: Air Camper -project Hi! All, you may remember we =93 our family =93 purchased last summer an AN-2 to build us a flying summer home and to locate it to our plot in SAP (Siljansn=C3=A4s Airpark) in Sweden. We had some difficulties like those ever lovely bureaucrats and technical also but finally it=C2=B4s completed. So far it is positioned beside museum/restaurant =93 our plot is not usable so far. This film has been shown in Finnish State TV a week ago: https://www.dropbox.com/s/g22epbajudsdria/AST_asuntolentokone_Loikkanen.m p4 Later, one Lady Journalist flew in my Europa from Finland to Sweden and made this films: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKpB9aNUXH4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9eafggBtfo Please do not share or publish these before 29th of August 2013. That=C2=B4s the date they will publish a full story in the 2nd biggest newspaper in Finland. So far, we have lived there two weeks including whole family with two daughters, a dog and a cat. Everything operates lovely and this is clearly one of the best things we have ever done as a family. It=C2=B4s fully equipped, there is also a cooling and warming systems. We have usable el-power 2300 Watts and that all we need, so far. BTW we call it as an Air Camper =93 that was something from Frans Veldman =93 thanks Frans! You are all welcome to our =9CAntsu=9D Air Camper =93 so far our guest room is a tent only beside ac =93 but we have some future plans but they are too wild to report too early... Here is a link you can see it live (about from 1600 to 1900 Zulutime it=C2=B4s nav lights are in jubileum mode, other time just normally): http://siljanairpark.se/index.php?p=airclub Thanks! Cheers, Raimo Toivio Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 Updated flight hours /landings: 357,55 /589 37500 Lempaala FINLAND p +358-3-3753 777 f +358-3-3753 100 toivio@fly.to www.rwm.fi ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:34:06 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Air Camper -project Hi Raimo, > This film has been shown in Finnish State TV a week ago: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/g22epbajudsdria/AST_asuntolentokone_Loikkanen.mp4 It looks nice! Wonderful! Good job! Great project! > BTW we call it as an Air Camper that was something from Frans Veldman > thanks Frans! Are you sure? I love to get credit but I can't remember this. > You are all welcome to our Antsu Air Camper so far our guest room is > a tent only beside ac but we have some future plans but they are too > wild to report too early... I would love to go there, but so far the weather is always spoiling it. Oh wait, this is in Sweden instead of Finland, right? We have had more luck with Sweden (although the last time in Borglanda it was a bit difficult to get out of there). > http://siljanairpark.se/index.php?p=airclub Hey this is close to Mora, we have been there twice this year! The first time was when we escaped from Borglanda, when in the evening there was finally a hole in the 200tf OVC and we just took off without knowing where we were going, we just followed the light and made a plan during the flight and ended up in Mora. The next time was on our return from the North Cape when we were following the Norwegian coast but weather issues diverted us to Mora again. It seems like Mora is the way to go if the weather turns bad. Good to see you have parked your air camper in the neighbourhood! Best regards, Frans ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Air Camper -project From: Pete That is just too cool! what a great idea....if one can afford the fuel ;) Cheers, Pete A239 On Aug 20, 2013, at 12:58 PM, "Raimo Toivio" wrote: > Hi! All, > > you may remember we =93 our family =93 purchased last summer a n AN-2 to build us a flying summer home and to locate it to our plot in SAP ( Siljansn=C3=A4s Airpark) in Sweden. > > We had some difficulties like those ever lovely bureaucrats and technical a lso but finally it=C2=B4s completed. So far it is positioned beside museum/r estaurant =93 our plot is not usable so far. > > This film has been shown in Finnish State TV a week ago: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/g22epbajudsdria/AST_asuntolentokone_Loikkanen.m p4 > > Later, one Lady Journalist flew in my Europa from Finland to Sweden and ma de this films: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKpB9aNUXH4 > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9eafggBtfo > > Please do not share or publish these before 29th of August 2013. That=C2=B4 s the date they will publish a full story in the 2nd biggest newspaper in Fi nland. > > So far, we have lived there two weeks including whole family with two daug hters, a dog and a cat. Everything operates lovely and this is clearly one o f the best things we have ever done as a family. It=C2=B4s fully equipped, t here is also a cooling and warming systems. We have usable el-power 2300 Wat ts and that all we need, so far. > > BTW we call it as an Air Camper =93 that was something from Frans Ve ldman =93 thanks Frans! > > You are all welcome to our =9CAntsu=9D Air Camper =93 so far our guest room is a tent only beside ac =93 but we have some futu re plans but they are too wild to report too early... > > Here is a link you can see it live (about from 1600 to 1900 Zulutime it=C2 =B4s nav lights are in jubileum mode, other time just normally): > > http://siljanairpark.se/index.php?p=airclub > > Thanks! > > Cheers, Raimo Toivio > > > Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417 > > Updated flight hours /landings: 357,55 /589 > > 37500 Lempaala > FINLAND > > p +358-3-3753 777 > f +358-3-3753 100 > > toivio@fly.to > www.rwm.fi > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: NMEA From: Alan Burrill Didn't see you Sunday - I'm afraid to ask! Alan Sent from my iPad On 16 Aug 2013, at 18:54, " Peter Jeffers" wrote: > Thanks also to you Alan. May have to withdraw it if I end up in LCZ. > > Pete > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Burrill > Sent: 16 August 2013 17:35 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: NMEA > > Peter, well done. > > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > On 16 Aug 2013, at 17:27, " Peter Jeffers" wrote: > >> Hi Ferg, >> >> I have this very afternoon instructed my Lowrance to transmit NMEA versio n 2 configured to RMC & RMB to the autopilot. If you are correct with your s tatement below then with any luck on Sunday my Auto pilot may just take me t o the Laddingford Europa fly in all by itself. I await being amazed by tech nology that I do not understand. >> Ferg many thanks for your input. >> >> Pete >> >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-se rver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of f.kyle@sympatico.ca >> Sent: 16 August 2013 15:42 >> To: 5EUROPALIST >> Subject: Europa-List: NMEA >> >> Cheers, >> I=99m off the study of this topic, but can offer a clue . I have a ham program which permits the use of the NMEA protocol. This wort hy application includes a series =9Cstatements=9D which allow th e GPS receiver to calculate your position, and other qualities. However, it w as designed as marine program, wherein ships don=99t usually change r oute every few minutes as our aircraft might. Therefore, it is missing a sen tence which allows for setting up a series of legs on a flight. This is eith er RMB or RMC (I think the former - experts please correct). I have failed t o discover a device - other than the multi-buck aircraft navs - which includ e this vital sentence. For clarity why not consult Wikipedia, which explains it far better than I what the sentences are. It=99s marvellous - and s houldn=99t leave anyone =98cold=99. >> hey, >> Ferg >> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> http://forums.matronics.com >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:57 PM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Air Camper -project Hi Frans, > BTW we call it as an Air Camper that was > something from Frans Veldman > thanks Frans! >Are you sure? I love to get credit but I can't >remember this. Yes, I am sure. You wrote 15th of May " Instead of Norrkoping we will go, according to your recommendation, to Borglanda, and then via Aland to Tampere (?) According to the flight schedule we would be there at saturday but of course we can change the planning somewhat if desired (and of course depending on the weather). I also remember something about an Antonov-camper ;-) and love to see it. " and then we got an idea to call it "Air Camper". Thanks again. It feels better than "a house aircraft" or "a flying cottage". Her nickname from us is "Antsu", Russian original is "Annushka" or "Annie" and NATO code name is "Colt". If an aircraft can be alive, she really really is. Wishes, Raimo Europa OH-XRT Antonov HA-MDO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.