Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:23 AM - Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality (John Wighton)
2. 03:08 AM - Fuel filters (Pete Lawless)
3. 03:30 AM - Re: Classic radiator(s) needed (Philip Levi)
4. 04:21 AM - Re: Fuel filters (Carl Pattinson)
5. 11:03 AM - Re: Fuel filters (Raimo Toivio)
6. 01:29 PM - Re: Fuel filters (Bob Harrison)
7. 02:06 PM - Re: Powerflarm (graeme bird)
8. 02:25 PM - Pitot Static - help needed. (Dave Disney)
9. 02:31 PM - Re: Re: Powerflarm (David Watts)
10. 02:48 PM - Re: Fuel filters (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
11. 03:56 PM - Re: Fuel filters (K BURNS)
12. 06:33 PM - Re: Fuel filters (Andrew Sarangan)
13. 07:47 PM - EAA 21 Club First Saturday Fly-Ins at KEHR, Henderson, KY (Steve Eberhart)
14. 08:45 PM - Re: Pitot Static - help needed. (bill)
15. 10:37 PM - FW: Fuel filters.............( FURTHER SUGGEST>>>>>>>>> (Bob Harrison)
16. 11:01 PM - Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
17. 11:05 PM - Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
18. 11:25 PM - Re: Pitot Static - help needed. (Carl Pattinson)
19. 11:39 PM - Re: Re: Powerflarm (PITT STEVEN)
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Subject: | Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality |
The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully not
an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident. But l
have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems, especially the
fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a blocked filter.
According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to yesterday at the Rally,
the accident occurred at full power in the climb out after refuelling. If
so the classic case of power starvation due to a blocked filer is a possible
cause. I note that the photos show the inline filter used is the standard glass
tube variety. Blockage of this type of inline filter has caused many incidents
and at least one written off Europa.
Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way smaller
than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage due to
a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a hasty decent
into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover guys). The
filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran on the ground
but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332 controller.
Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l changed
them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date these
have proven extremely reliable (100%).
In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel lines
could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change, the filters
would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw fit unions
(as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy Draper about the
mod.
Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC code
and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering.
If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related (this
is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action which will
lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters. A possibility
for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version.
I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the glass tube,
22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft operator with
the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use of these filters
it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information such as frequency of
inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial blockage info, leaks,
other issues will br gratefully received and treated in confidence. Likewise
any info showing satisfactory in service history is also welcome. Please post
info or email direct to me. John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
John Wighton
Chief of Stress
Pilatus Aircraft
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
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Hi John
I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the first
few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning every
5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours
caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning
until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours the filter now
need a clean about every 50 hours.
My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as
per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The
beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all that
is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. Cleaning is very easy
you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the
glass.
I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect
without taking it to bits.
Pete
Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton
Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality
The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully
not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident.
But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems,
especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a
blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to
yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb
out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a
blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline
filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of
inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa.
Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way
smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage
due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a
hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover
guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran
on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332
controller.
Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l
changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date
these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel
lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change,
the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw
fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy
Draper about the mod.
Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC
code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering.
If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related
(this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action
which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters.
A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version.
I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the
glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft
operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use
of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information
such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial
blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated
in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is
also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me.
John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
John Wighton
Chief of Stress
Pilatus Aircraft
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
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Subject: | Re: Classic radiator(s) needed |
Richard
I appreciate you are in Kenya, however the following may help.
I recently had to have my radiator repaired at an annual check. Europa
were unable to provide a replacement at the time. My engineer, Gary
Johnson, found somewhere in the UK some engineers, I believe they were a
motorcycle repair organisation, and they refurbished the radiator and it
came back as new at extremely modest cost, far less than replacement. May
I suggest you contact Gary - his e-mail address is <thehighflyer@aol.com>
and you may be able to post your radiator to the people that repaired
mine.
Alternatively you may be able to find similar motor-bike servicing
specialists in Kenya as I understand that the Europa radiators were
originally motorcycle radiators with minor modifications made in order
to fit them to the aircraft.
*Philip*
*
*
*Philip Levi*
G-BWWB, Europa Monowheel Classic, Old Warden.
On 31 August 2013 16:53, Richard Lamprey <lamprey.richard@gmail.com> wrote:
> lamprey.richard@gmail.com>
>
> Greetings from Kenya
>
> Does anyone have a spare starboard classic radiator? I could buy the pair
> if you are selling as a pair. I have a UK address to send to if necessary.
>
> My starboard radiator has sprung a small leak. Has anyone tried Radweld
> or something similar?
>
> Best,
> Richard
> Classic reg 5Y-LRY
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407814#407814
>
>
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Hi All,
I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial
shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's
definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before
assuming everything is clean.
If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be
addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their
job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our
tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps).
In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some
builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud
which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe
that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular
issue.
Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator setup
instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one
available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday and
they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the setup is that any large lumps
of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and
will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very little
muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron
screen).
We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on
filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of a
clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own
debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not
filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered.
For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be
possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be dropped
down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external
sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation.
Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual
warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
Hi John
I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the first
few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning every
5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours
caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning
until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours the filter now
need a clean about every 50 hours.
My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as
per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The
beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all that
is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. Cleaning is very easy
you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the
glass.
I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect
without taking it to bits.
Pete
Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton
Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality
The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully
not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident.
But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems,
especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a
blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to
yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb
out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a
blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline
filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of
inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa.
Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way
smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage
due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a
hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover
guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran
on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332
controller.
Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l
changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date
these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel
lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change,
the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw
fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy
Draper about the mod.
Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC
code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering.
If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related
(this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action
which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters.
A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version.
I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the
glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft
operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use
of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information
such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial
blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated
in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is
also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me.
John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
John Wighton
Chief of Stress
Pilatus Aircraft
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
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Subject: | Re: Fuel filters |
Carl and the rest of you who are interested in
this topic,
I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful
several times (I had heard warnings!). I pumped
through the system at least 300 liters of fuel
before first flight.
Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full
power during cruise and my Rotax went silent
immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over
mountaineous forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki
Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We
looked each others and I elected to switch
electric pump on AND changed to reserve tank (and
to another fuel filter also - how genious is that
fuel system - there is always a clean filter
waiting!). That was an autonomious reflex only.
Rotax fired up immediately.
Jyrki said later please never apply full power
with a new construction or after a major service
if you are not above airfield! That makes sense.
He also said he is alive because after every
service or repair he had had a habit to fly at
least 15 minutes over the field before heading to
somewhere. He had completed 9 forced landings and
all over the runways, all succesful and all
because of service failure or service mistake.
That has happened during his career say 50 years.
My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally
blocked by small particles looking gold but they
were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes.
My guess was they (those particles) were "glued"
to the tank inside surfaces by static forces.
That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY
flight. Flight by flight it seemed to be cleaner
and cleaner.
Today I check my filters say after every 10
hours - always clean.
When refueling I have only two alternatives:
1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield.
Systems are aircraft quality, classified and
certified, filtered and water-isolated.
2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol
stations w as good brand as possible direct to MY
canisters through Mr. Mc Funnels debris /water
isolator.
Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any
more fuel problems.
I never clean my filters. I change them for new
ones once a year (after 50-100 hrs service).
I do not use those original puzzle filters w
several parts and glass tube.
One was broken during towing action and one was
broken by itself in the hangar.
I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway
models - transparent - one piece - plastic non
glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong
way - cheap - unbreakable.
Sold? How many you want?
Cheers,
Raimo Toivio
FINLAND
OH-XRT
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: Carl Pattinson
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters
Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Hi All,
I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked
filters after the initial
shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out
tanks after build but it's
definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel
through the system before
assuming everything is clean.
If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an
issue that should be
addressed first rather instead of relying on the
fuel filters to do their
job. I accept that some of us have less control
over what we put in our
tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel
at the airfield pumps).
In the early days I recall that clogged filters
were an issue for some
builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by
large amounts of crud
which should never have been there in the first
place - I do not believe
that changing the size of the filter mesh would
address this particular
issue.
Personally I never liked the factory system and
opted for a gascolator setup
instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the
cheap kit builders one
available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced
one at the LAA yesterday and
they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the
setup is that any large lumps
of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of
the gascolator bowl and
will be drained off when you do your do your daily
fuel checks - very little
muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the
bowl (this is a 120 micron
screen).
We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans
which we insist on
filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have
never found any signs of a
clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel
cans generate their own
debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to
flake off and if not
filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered.
For those who have to rely on airfield based
supplies if it should be
possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon
mesh) which could be dropped
down the fuel filler opening to ensure the
cleanliness of any external
sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent
installation.
Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge
which would give a visual
warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Pete Lawless
Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
<pete@lawless.info>
Hi John
I have the original glass filters and am very
happy with them. In the first
few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and
mine needed cleaning every
5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one
occasion at about 10 hours
caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then
less frequently cleaning
until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At
550 hours the filter now
need a clean about every 50 hours.
My filters are installed under the seats protected
by a Perspex cover, as
per the original Classic layout. I inspect them
BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The
beauty of the glass container is that you can see
what is going on, all that
is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look.
Cleaning is very easy
you just change the filter screen for a new one
and wipe the inside of the
glass.
I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit
I could not inspect
without taking it to bits.
Pete
Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of John Wighton
Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of
father and daughter fatality
<john@wighton.net>
The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft
are shocking and hopefully
not an indicator of the condition she was in at
the time of the accident.
But l have to say that if the level of neglect
extended to the systems,
especially the fuel system, the cause of the
incident may easily have been a
blocked filter. According to a close friend of
David, whom l spoke to
yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at
full power in the climb
out after refuelling. If so the classic case of
power starvation due to a
blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that
the photos show the inline
filter used is the standard glass tube variety.
Blockage of this type of
inline filter has caused many incidents and at
least one written off Europa.
Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron
sized mesh. This is way
smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated
by Rotax. I had a stoppage
due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few
years ago, this led to a
hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed
(thanks for the fire cover
guys). The filter was partially blocked with
translucent material. It ran
on the ground but would not feed fuel to the
goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332
controller.
Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state
of fuel feed anxiety l
changed them for Andair filters which have a 60
micron filter size. To date
these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a
version for 1/4in bore fuel
lines could be made. He said it was quite easy,
just a CNC program change,
the filters would then have a push-on nipple type
end and not require screw
fit unions (as in my installation). Some
discussion occurred with Andy
Draper about the mod.
Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got
around to adapting the CNC
code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA
Engineering.
If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on
GBXS was filter related
(this is speculative but informed on my part) we
should support some action
which will lead to changes in the use of these
standard glass tube filters.
A possibility for Europas could be a new filter,
perhaps the Andair version.
I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the
continued use of the
glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa
flyer, or other aircraft
operator with the same filter type, can supply
information regarding the use
of these filters it may assist in deciding which
way to go. Information
such as frequency of inspection, frequency of
cleaning, stoppage or partial
blockage info, leaks, other issues will br
gratefully received and treated
in confidence. Likewise any info showing
satisfactory in service history is
also welcome. Please post info or email direct to
me.
John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
John Wighton
Chief of Stress
Pilatus Aircraft
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
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Hi! Raimo/all
You make an interesting statement with regards to switching to the reserve
tank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I think you should
remember that on a much used aircraft the filling system always delivers
"the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the best
will in the world it is likely to always store water contamination in a
greater proportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect that
the reserve switch will always be your salvation! The water drain valves
need to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard glass
Europa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair gascolator filters one for each
saddle tank side.
After an overnight stay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water
from the reserve drain valve which I believe went into the tank through the
locking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain .
This incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't think it was from their refuel
facility but who knows?
Best regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total airframe hours in excess of
1000.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio
Sent: 01 September 2013 19:03
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters
Carl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic,
I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard
warnings!). I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before
first flight.
Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power during cruise and my
Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over mountaineous
forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We
looked each others and I elected to switch electric pump on AND changed to
reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel
system - there is always a clean filter waiting!). That was an autonomious
reflex only.
Rotax fired up immediately.
Jyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction or
after a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense.
He also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had had a
habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to somewhere.
He had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all succesful
and all because of service failure or service mistake.
That has happened during his career say 50 years.
My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles
looking gold but they were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes.
My guess was they (those particles) were "glued"
to the tank inside surfaces by static forces.
That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by flight it
seemed to be cleaner and cleaner.
Today I check my filters say after every 10 hours - always clean.
When refueling I have only two alternatives:
1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield.
Systems are aircraft quality, classified and certified, filtered and
water-isolated.
2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w as good brand as
possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnels debris /water
isolator.
Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any more fuel problems.
I never clean my filters. I change them for new ones once a year (after
50-100 hrs service).
I do not use those original puzzle filters w several parts and glass tube.
One was broken during towing action and one was broken by itself in the
hangar.
I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - one
piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way -
cheap - unbreakable.
Sold? How many you want?
Cheers,
Raimo Toivio
FINLAND
OH-XRT
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: Carl Pattinson
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters
Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Hi All,
I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked
filters after the initial
shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out
tanks after build but it's
definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel
through the system before
assuming everything is clean.
If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an
issue that should be
addressed first rather instead of relying on the
fuel filters to do their
job. I accept that some of us have less control
over what we put in our
tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel
at the airfield pumps).
In the early days I recall that clogged filters
were an issue for some
builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by
large amounts of crud
which should never have been there in the first
place - I do not believe
that changing the size of the filter mesh would
address this particular
issue.
Personally I never liked the factory system and
opted for a gascolator setup
instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the
cheap kit builders one
available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced
one at the LAA yesterday and
they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the
setup is that any large lumps
of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of
the gascolator bowl and
will be drained off when you do your do your daily
fuel checks - very little
muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the
bowl (this is a 120 micron
screen).
We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans
which we insist on
filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have
never found any signs of a
clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel
cans generate their own
debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to
flake off and if not
filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered.
For those who have to rely on airfield based
supplies if it should be
possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon
mesh) which could be dropped
down the fuel filler opening to ensure the
cleanliness of any external
sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent
installation.
Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge
which would give a visual
warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Pete Lawless
Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
<pete@lawless.info>
Hi John
I have the original glass filters and am very
happy with them. In the first
few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and
mine needed cleaning every
5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one
occasion at about 10 hours
caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then
less frequently cleaning
until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At
550 hours the filter now
need a clean about every 50 hours.
My filters are installed under the seats protected
by a Perspex cover, as
per the original Classic layout. I inspect them
BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The
beauty of the glass container is that you can see
what is going on, all that
is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look.
Cleaning is very easy
you just change the filter screen for a new one
and wipe the inside of the
glass.
I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit
I could not inspect
without taking it to bits.
Pete
Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of John Wighton
Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of
father and daughter fatality
<john@wighton.net>
The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft
are shocking and hopefully
not an indicator of the condition she was in at
the time of the accident.
But l have to say that if the level of neglect
extended to the systems,
especially the fuel system, the cause of the
incident may easily have been a
blocked filter. According to a close friend of
David, whom l spoke to
yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at
full power in the climb
out after refuelling. If so the classic case of
power starvation due to a
blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that
the photos show the inline
filter used is the standard glass tube variety.
Blockage of this type of
inline filter has caused many incidents and at
least one written off Europa.
Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron
sized mesh. This is way
smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated
by Rotax. I had a stoppage
due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few
years ago, this led to a
hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed
(thanks for the fire cover
guys). The filter was partially blocked with
translucent material. It ran
on the ground but would not feed fuel to the
goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332
controller.
Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state
of fuel feed anxiety l
changed them for Andair filters which have a 60
micron filter size. To date
these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a
version for 1/4in bore fuel
lines could be made. He said it was quite easy,
just a CNC program change,
the filters would then have a push-on nipple type
end and not require screw
fit unions (as in my installation). Some
discussion occurred with Andy
Draper about the mod.
Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got
around to adapting the CNC
code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA
Engineering.
If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on
GBXS was filter related
(this is speculative but informed on my part) we
should support some action
which will lead to changes in the use of these
standard glass tube filters.
A possibility for Europas could be a new filter,
perhaps the Andair version.
I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the
continued use of the
glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa
flyer, or other aircraft
operator with the same filter type, can supply
information regarding the use
of these filters it may assist in deciding which
way to go. Information
such as frequency of inspection, frequency of
cleaning, stoppage or partial
blockage info, leaks, other issues will br
gratefully received and treated
in confidence. Likewise any info showing
satisfactory in service history is
also welcome. Please post info or email direct to
me.
John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
John Wighton
Chief of Stress
Pilatus Aircraft
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
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I ordered the Powerflarm core Sat at the LAA rally UK from LX avionics (999 inc).
Seems its gaining momentum; RAF have ordered it for their aircadet trainers
as well and a big take up of FLARM at Dunstable near me. I am not sure whether
to get a stand alone display or to rely on Sky demon which means a blue tooth
link and a new nexus7 or phone (bluetooth seems a bit excessive for where a
few inches of serial cable would do).
The stand alone displays look a bit micro to me? Any comments?
Is the audio license worth having, I would guess so?
BTW great to see so many Europas and club members at the show.
Would it be a good idea to have a sign in list at the tent so one could see who
has arrived been?
For me its always interesting to see the faces of the people from the forum.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 75 hours 18 months
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407870#407870
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Subject: | Pitot Static - help needed. |
Just after take off from the LAA rally today (Sunday) I noticed that the ASI wasn't
working (I know - how come I didn't notice it on the take off run, truth
is I'm still new to the aircraft and was concentrating on keeping straight in
the cross wind when it leapt off the ground). I flew on home and managed to land
the aircraft using GPS ground speed.
It seems that I may have broken off the black plastic static head which is now
missing.
Questions are :-
Where can I get a new one from?
Is the pitot static head a standard type item?
I see that Light Aero Spares have a similar looking unit in their catalog item 15144 shown here http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=V02FX7LLH is this the one fitted?
Is it possible to get a new plastic bit or do I need to get a whole new unit from
Europa?
Does anyone know if there is a metal alternative to the plastic bit available?
Sorry there are so many questions, please be patient with a newbee.
Dave Disney
G-RJWX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407873#407873
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I bought a PowerFlarm Core from LX Avionics on Friday at the rally. I have been
running SkyDemon on an iPad in the cockpit for over a year and having seen the
imprssive traffic system on SkyDemon at AeroExpo earlier this year, a month
ago I bought a Butterfly Connect bluetooth (in preparation), so hopefully I will
be up and running with the system in the not too distant future.
Dave Watts G-BXDY
On 1 Sep 2013, at 22:05, "graeme bird" <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I ordered the Powerflarm core Sat at the LAA rally UK from LX avionics (999 inc).
Seems its gaining momentum; RAF have ordered it for their aircadet trainers
as well and a big take up of FLARM at Dunstable near me. I am not sure whether
to get a stand alone display or to rely on Sky demon which means a blue tooth
link and a new nexus7 or phone (bluetooth seems a bit excessive for where
a few inches of serial cable would do).
> The stand alone displays look a bit micro to me? Any comments?
> Is the audio license worth having, I would guess so?
>
> BTW great to see so many Europas and club members at the show.
>
> Would it be a good idea to have a sign in list at the tent so one could see who
has arrived been?
> For me its always interesting to see the faces of the people from the forum.
>
> --------
> Graeme Bird
> G-UMPY
> Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
> Newby: 75 hours 18 months
> g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407870#407870
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Fuel filters |
Bob=0Agood to see you at the show. =0AI have seen water leak into the tank
from overnight rain.=0Athrough the plastic fuel tank cap that many Europas
have. Difficult to adjust when=0Athey get corroded and the hut rusts up. Al
so the size of the O ring is imprtant.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________
___________________=0A From: Bob Harrison <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>=0ATo: eu
ropa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 1 September 2013, 21:29=0ASubject:
"Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>=0A=0AHi! Raimo/all=0AYou make an in
teresting statement with regards to switching to the reserve=0Atank and got
a clean filter to start up with , however I think you should=0Aremember th
at on a much used aircraft the filling system always delivers=0A"the new sh
it " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the best=0Awill in t
he world it is likely to always store water contamination in a=0Agreater pr
oportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect that=0Athe re
serve switch will always be your salvation!- The water drain valves=0Anee
d to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard glass=0AE
uropa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair gascolator filters one for each
=0Asaddle tank side.=0AAfter an overnight stay in pouring rain I took about
half a litre of water=0Afrom the reserve drain valve which I believe went
into the tank through the=0Alocking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire
filler cap when in rain .=0AThis incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't t
hink it was from their refuel=0Afacility but who knows?=0ABest regards=0ABo
b Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total airframe hours in excess of
=0A1000.=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-europa-list-server@m
atronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Raimo Toivio=0ASent: 01 September 2013 19:03=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.c
om=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters=0A=0A--> Europa-List message po
sted by: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>=0A=0ACarl and the rest of you
who are interested in this topic,=0A=0AI did it also. I cleaned my tank ve
ry careful several times (I had heard=0Awarnings!). I pumped through the sy
stem at least 300 liters of fuel before=0Afirst flight.=0A=0ADespite that -
total hours 5 - I once pushed full power during cruise and my=0ARotax went
silent immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over mountaineous=0Aforest. M
y co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We=0Alooked
each others and I elected to switch electric pump on AND changed to=0Areser
ve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel=0Asyste
m - there is always a clean filter waiting!). That was an autonomious=0Aref
lex only. =0ARotax fired up immediately.=0A=0AJyrki said later please never
apply full power with a new construction or=0Aafter a major service if you
are not above airfield! That makes sense. =0AHe also said he is alive beca
use after every service or repair he had had a=0Ahabit to fly at least 15 m
inutes over the field before heading to somewhere.=0AHe had completed 9 for
ced landings and all over the runways, all succesful=0Aand all because of s
ervice failure or service mistake. =0AThat has happened during his career s
ay 50 years.=0A=0AMy fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally blocked
by small particles=0Alooking gold but they were identified to be shit from
lay-upp processes. =0AMy guess was they (those particles) were "glued" =0A
to the tank inside surfaces by static forces.=0A=0AThat after I checked my
fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by flight it=0Aseemed to be cleaner
and cleaner.=0A=0AToday I check my filters say after every 10 hours - alway
s clean.=0A=0AWhen refueling I have only two alternatives:=0A=0A1) Refuel 1
00LL direct to my ac in the airfield. =0ASystems are aircraft quality, clas
sified and certified, filtered and=0Awater-isolated.=0A=0A2) Refuel autofue
l 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w as good brand as=0Apossible direc
t to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnel=B4s debris /water=0Aisolator.=0A=0A
Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any more fuel problems.=0A
=0AI never clean my filters. I change them for new ones once a year (after
=0A50-100 hrs service).=0A=0AI do not use those original puzzle filters w s
everal parts and glass tube.=0A=0AOne was broken during towing action and o
ne was broken by itself in the=0Ahangar.=0A=0AI use original Rotax filters
- they are throwaway models - transparent - one=0Apiece - plastic non glass
- you are not able to assemble them wrong way -=0Acheap - unbreakable.=0A
=0ASold? How many you want?=0A=0ACheers,=0A=0ARaimo Toivio=0AFINLAND=0AOH-X
RT=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Alkuper=E4inen viesti-----=0AFrom: Carl P
attinson=0ASent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM=0ATo: europa-list@matro
nics.com=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters=0A=0A--> Europa-List mess
age posted by: "Carl=0APattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>=0A=0AHi All
,=0A=0AI am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked =0Afilters after the in
itial=0Ashakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out =0Atanks after build
but it's=0Adefinitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel =0Athrough the s
ystem before=0Aassuming everything is clean.=0A=0AIf you have dirty fuel in
your tanks this is an =0Aissue that should be=0Aaddressed first rather ins
tead of relying on the =0Afuel filters to do their=0Ajob. I accept that som
e of us have less control =0Aover what we put in our=0Atanks than others (i
e: if you are purchasing fuel =0Aat the airfield pumps).=0A=0AIn the early
days I recall that clogged filters =0Awere an issue for some=0Abuilders. Th
e filters were becoming overwhelmed by =0Alarge amounts of crud=0Awhich sho
uld never have been there in the first =0Aplace - I do not believe=0Athat c
hanging the size of the filter mesh would =0Aaddress this particular=0Aissu
e.=0A=0APersonally I never liked the factory system and =0Aopted for a gasc
olator setup=0Ainstead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the =0Acheap ki
t builders one=0Aavailable from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced =0Aone at
the LAA yesterday and=0Athey are selling for =A360) . The beauty of the =0A
setup is that any large lumps=0Aof crud (or water) tend to settle in the bo
ttom of =0Athe gascolator bowl and=0Awill be drained off when you do your d
o your daily =0Afuel checks - very little=0Amuck reaches the filter mesh at
the top of the =0Abowl (this is a 120 micron=0Ascreen).=0A=0AWe are fortun
ate in that all our fuel is from cans =0Awhich we insist on=0Afiltering thr
ough a fine mesh funnel and we have =0Anever found any signs of a=0Aclogged
filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel =0Acans generate their own=0Ade
bris as the internal paint on the cans tends to =0Aflake off and if not=0Af
iltered would cause problems if not pre filtered.=0A=0AFor those who have t
o rely on airfield based =0Asupplies if it should be=0Apossible to carry a
filter sock (wire or nylon =0Amesh) which could be dropped=0Adown the fuel
filler opening to ensure the =0Acleanliness of any external=0Asources of fu
el. This could even be a permanent =0Ainstallation.=0A=0AAdditionally as a
backup, a fuel pressure gauge =0Awhich would give a visual=0Awarning- of
low pressure due to a filter blockage.=0A=0ACarl Pattinson=0AG-LABS=0A=0A--
---Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com=0A[
mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On =0ABehalf Of Pete Lawless
=0ASent: 01 September 2013 11:08=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject:
wless" =0A<pete@lawless.info>=0A=0AHi John=0A=0AI have the original glass f
ilters and am very =0Ahappy with them.- In the first=0Afew hours of a new
Europa they do get blocked and =0Amine needed cleaning every=0A5 hours or
so for the first 25 hours and on one =0Aoccasion at about 10 hours=0Acaused
fuel starvation on the climb out.- Then =0Aless frequently cleaning=0Aun
til the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At =0A550 hours the filter no
w=0Aneed a clean about every 50 hours.=0A=0AMy filters are installed under
the seats protected =0Aby a Perspex cover, as=0Aper the original Classic la
yout.- I inspect them =0ABEFORE EVERY FLIGHT.- The=0Abeauty of the glas
s container is that you can see =0Awhat is going on, all that=0Ais needed i
s to pull up the seat cushion and look. =0ACleaning is very easy=0Ayou just
change the filter screen for a new one =0Aand wipe the inside of the=0Agla
ss.=0A=0AI would be very reluctant to install a filter unit =0AI could not
inspect=0Awithout taking it to bits.=0A=0APete=0AClassic #109 Rotax 912UL
=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-europa-list-server@mat
ronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On =0ABehalf O
f John Wighton=0ASent: 01 September 2013 09:23=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.
com=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of =0Afather and daughter
ighton.net>=0A=0AThe photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft =0Aare sh
ocking and hopefully=0Anot an indicator of the condition she was in at =0At
he time of the accident.=0ABut l have to say that if the level of neglect
=0Aextended to the systems,=0Aespecially the fuel system, the cause of the
=0Aincident may easily have been a=0Ablocked filter.- According to a clos
e friend of =0ADavid, whom l spoke to=0Ayesterday at the Rally,- the acci
dent occurred at =0Afull power in the climb=0Aout after refuelling.- If s
o the classic case of =0Apower starvation due to a=0Ablocked filer is a pos
sible cause.- I note that =0Athe photos show the inline=0Afilter used is
the standard glass tube variety. =0ABlockage of this type of=0Ainline filte
r has caused many incidents and at =0Aleast one written off Europa.=0A=0AAn
alysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron =0Asized mesh.- This is way
=0Asmaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated =0Aby Rotax.- I had a
stoppage=0Adue to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few =0Ayears ago,
this led to a=0Ahasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed =0A(thank
s for the fire cover=0Aguys).- The filter was partially blocked with =0At
ranslucent material.- It ran=0Aon the ground but would not feed fuel to t
he =0Agoverened 5000 rpm of my AP332=0Acontroller.=0A=0AHaving thereafter s
pent a year in a constant state =0Aof fuel feed anxiety l=0Achanged them fo
r Andair filters which have a 60 =0Amicron filter size.- To date=0Athese
have proven extremely reliable (100%).=0A=0AIn 2012 l contacted Andy at And
air to ask if a =0Aversion for 1/4in bore fuel=0Alines could be made.- He
said it was quite easy, =0Ajust a CNC program change,=0Athe filters would
then have a push-on nipple type =0Aend and not require screw=0Afit unions (
as in my installation).- Some =0Adiscussion occurred with Andy=0ADraper a
bout the mod.=0A=0AYesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got =0Aaroun
d to adapting the CNC=0Acode and hence nothing had occurred at LAA =0AEngin
eering.=0A=0AIf it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on =0AGBXS was
filter related=0A(this is speculative but informed on my part) we =0Ashould
support some action=0Awhich will lead to changes in the use of these =0Ast
andard glass tube filters.=0AA possibility for Europas could be a new filte
r, =0Aperhaps the Andair version.=0A=0A=0AI shall write to the LAA with my
concerns over the =0Acontinued use of the=0Aglass tube, 22. Micron filters.
- If any Europa =0Aflyer, or other aircraft=0Aoperator with the same filt
er type, can supply =0Ainformation regarding the use=0Aof these filters it
may assist in deciding which =0Away to go.- Information=0Asuch as frequen
cy of inspection, frequency of =0Acleaning, stoppage or partial=0Ablockage
info, leaks, other issues will br =0Agratefully received and treated=0Ain c
onfidence. Likewise any info showing =0Asatisfactory in service history is
=0Aalso welcome. Please post info or email direct to =0Ame.=0AJohn(dot)wigh
ton(at)ultraflight.net=0A=0AJohn Wighton=0AChief of Stress=0APilatus Aircra
ft=0A=0A--------=0AJohn Wighton=0AEuropa XS trigear G-IPOD=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARe
ad this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p
=407837#407837=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A--=0AThis message has b
een scanned for viruses and =0Adangerous content by Houxou,=0Aand is believ
ed to be clean.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Abrowse=0AUn/Subscription,=0AFAQ,
=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0AForums!=0AList Admin.
=
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Fuel filters |
Bob,=0AYou are correct a saddle tank type reserve will build up water in th
e bottom if you take no preventative actions, as you suggest water drain va
lves,(with the aircraft levelled to remove more water,-but I would sugges
t that the only way to know if the engine will run on that tank (filter / p
ipe/ valve position /pump combination) is to 1 ground run it (if new build
or restoration fuel flow tests on both sides of tank) then 2 at safe height
over a suitable airfield-change to reserve and run on reserve as a regul
ar check /flushing run on that side of the tank.=0AIf you find it difficult
to change-tanks with the standard fuel valve position, then consider the
benefits of-removing the valve and putting it where you can do it easily
.=0AAlso I would consider a Gascilator -valuable even if its primary purp
ose is as a water trap as you can not be sure to drain all the water all th
e time.=0AAlso we take pump samples at our airfield, on a daily basis which
are left to settle out water and contaminants (in glass Jam Jars) so fuel
quality is controlled (Look for globules in bottom of jar. =0ARather loose
some interior trim or other non essentials...=0A-=0AI hope these consider
ations will help, they are not original thinking , or rocket science, I hav
e also discussed with more than a few guys at the LAA show the need for tra
ined /automatic response to power loss (push instantly-forward on stick t
o an attitude that speed is maintained, and also plan for that eventuality
during cockpit checks, plan to land ahead until you have the height to turn
(Know what height you need to complete a turn),--the glider pilots amo
ngst you will recognise the BGA-training and pilot review-methods--
...used to reduce stall spin accidents on winch launching -found only poor
examples on u tube but helps to see results ...the second failure is a bit
low for comfort to do a 360..=0A-=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFT1
K1rQvHA=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqKrQ5uAbRg=0A-=0AKevin=0A-
=0A-=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Bob Harrison <pta
g.dev@tiscali.co.uk>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 1 Sep
tember 2013, 21:29=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters=0A =0A=0A--> E
uropa-List message posted by: "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>=0A=0A
Hi! Raimo/all=0AYou make an interesting statement with regards to switching
to the reserve=0Atank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I
think you should=0Aremember that on a much used aircraft the filling system
always delivers=0A"the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank
and with the best=0Awill in the world it is likely to always store water c
ontamination in a=0Agreater proportion than that on the main delivery side,
so don't expect that=0Athe reserve switch will always be your salvation!
- The water drain valves=0Aneed to be often tested on both sides . I did
away with the standard glass=0AEuropa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair
gascolator filters one for each=0Asaddle tank side.=0AAfter an overnight s
tay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water=0Afrom the reserve d
rain valve which I believe went into the tank through the=0Alocking fuel ca
p so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain .=0AThis incident
was at Zelam See (?and I don't think it was from their refuel=0Afacility bu
t who knows?=0ABest regards=0ABob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 tot
al airframe hours in excess of=0A1000.=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFr
om: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio=0ASent: 01 September 2013 19:03
=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters
i>=0A=0ACarl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic,=0A=0AI d
id it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard=0Awar
nings!). I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before=0Af
irst flight.=0A=0ADespite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power d
uring cruise and my=0ARotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went dow
n. Over mountaineous=0Aforest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous te
st pilot (google!). We=0Alooked each others and I elected to switch electri
c pump on AND changed to=0Areserve tank (and to another fuel filter also -
how genious is that fuel=0Asystem - there is always a clean filter waiting!
). That was an autonomious=0Areflex only. =0ARotax fired up immediately.=0A
=0AJyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction o
r=0Aafter a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense.
=0AHe also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had ha
d a=0Ahabit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to som
ewhere.=0AHe had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all
succesful=0Aand all because of service failure or service mistake. =0AThat
has happened during his career say 50 years.=0A=0AMy fuel filter was checke
d in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles=0Alooking gold but they
were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes. =0AMy guess was they (t
hose particles) were "glued" =0Ato the tank inside surfaces by static force
s.=0A=0AThat after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by f
light it=0Aseemed to be cleaner and cleaner.=0A=0AToday I check my filters
say after every 10 hours - always clean.=0A=0AWhen refueling I have only tw
o alternatives:=0A=0A1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield. =0ASy
stems are aircraft quality, classified and certified, filtered and=0Awater-
isolated.=0A=0A2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w a
s good brand as=0Apossible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnel=B4s
debris /water=0Aisolator.=0A=0ASince that scary action 2007, I have had ne
ver any more fuel problems.=0A=0AI never clean my filters. I change them fo
r new ones once a year (after=0A50-100 hrs service).=0A=0AI do not use thos
e original puzzle filters w several parts and glass tube.=0A=0AOne was brok
en during towing action and one was broken by itself in the=0Ahangar.=0A=0A
I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - on
e=0Apiece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way
-=0Acheap - unbreakable.=0A=0ASold? How many you want?=0A=0ACheers,=0A=0AR
aimo Toivio=0AFINLAND=0AOH-XRT=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Alkuper=E4ine
n viesti-----=0AFrom: Carl Pattinson=0ASent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:2
1 PM=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filte
freeserve.co.uk>=0A=0AHi All,=0A=0AI am surprised that anyone ever gets blo
cked =0Afilters after the initial=0Ashakedown. I know it is difficult to cl
ean out =0Atanks after build but it's=0Adefinitely worth pumping a few gall
ons of fuel =0Athrough the system before=0Aassuming everything is clean.=0A
=0AIf you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an =0Aissue that should be
=0Aaddressed first rather instead of relying on the =0Afuel filters to do t
heir=0Ajob. I accept that some of us have less control =0Aover what we put
in our=0Atanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel =0Aat the airfie
ld pumps).=0A=0AIn the early days I recall that clogged filters =0Awere an
issue for some=0Abuilders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by =0Alarg
e amounts of crud=0Awhich should never have been there in the first =0Aplac
e - I do not believe=0Athat changing the size of the filter mesh would =0Aa
ddress this particular=0Aissue.=0A=0APersonally I never liked the factory s
ystem and =0Aopted for a gascolator setup=0Ainstead - nothing fancy like an
Andair, just the =0Acheap kit builders one=0Aavailable from LAS or Aircraf
t Spruce (I priced =0Aone at the LAA yesterday and=0Athey are selling for
=A360) . The beauty of the =0Asetup is that any large lumps=0Aof crud (or w
ater) tend to settle in the bottom of =0Athe gascolator bowl and=0Awill be
drained off when you do your do your daily =0Afuel checks - very little=0Am
uck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the =0Abowl (this is a 120 micron
=0Ascreen).=0A=0AWe are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans =0Awhic
h we insist on=0Afiltering through a fine mesh funnel and we have =0Anever
found any signs of a=0Aclogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel
=0Acans generate their own=0Adebris as the internal paint on the cans tends
to =0Aflake off and if not=0Afiltered would cause problems if not pre filt
ered.=0A=0AFor those who have to rely on airfield based =0Asupplies if it s
hould be=0Apossible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon =0Amesh) which co
uld be dropped=0Adown the fuel filler opening to ensure the =0Acleanliness
of any external=0Asources of fuel. This could even be a permanent =0Ainstal
lation.=0A=0AAdditionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge =0Awhich would
give a visual=0Awarning- of low pressure due to a filter blockage.=0A=0A
Carl Pattinson=0AG-LABS=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-europ
a-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.co
m] On =0ABehalf Of Pete Lawless=0ASent: 01 September 2013 11:08=0ATo: europ
a-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Europa-List: Fuel filters=0A=0A--> Europa-L
ist message posted by: "Pete Lawless" =0A<pete@lawless.info>=0A=0AHi John
=0A=0AI have the original glass filters and am very =0Ahappy with them.-
In the first=0Afew hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and =0Amine ne
eded cleaning every=0A5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one =0Aoc
casion at about 10 hours=0Acaused fuel starvation on the climb out.- Then
=0Aless frequently cleaning=0Auntil the tank settled down at about 100 hou
rs. At =0A550 hours the filter now=0Aneed a clean about every 50 hours.=0A
=0AMy filters are installed under the seats protected =0Aby a Perspex cover
, as=0Aper the original Classic layout.- I inspect them =0ABEFORE EVERY F
LIGHT.- The=0Abeauty of the glass container is that you can see =0Awhat i
s going on, all that=0Ais needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look.
=0ACleaning is very easy=0Ayou just change the filter screen for a new one
=0Aand wipe the inside of the=0Aglass.=0A=0AI would be very reluctant to in
stall a filter unit =0AI could not inspect=0Awithout taking it to bits.=0A
=0APete=0AClassic #109 Rotax 912UL=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0A
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-se
rver@matronics.com] On =0ABehalf Of John Wighton=0ASent: 01 September 2013
09:23=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mai
l report of =0Afather and daughter fatality=0A=0A--> Europa-List message po
sted by: "John Wighton" =0A<john@wighton.net>=0A=0AThe photos taken in 2002
of the crashed aircraft =0Aare shocking and hopefully=0Anot an indicator o
f the condition she was in at =0Athe time of the accident.=0ABut l have to
say that if the level of neglect =0Aextended to the systems,=0Aespecially t
he fuel system, the cause of the =0Aincident may easily have been a=0Ablock
ed filter.- According to a close friend of =0ADavid, whom l spoke to=0Aye
sterday at the Rally,- the accident occurred at =0Afull power in the clim
b=0Aout after refuelling.- If so the classic case of =0Apower starvation
due to a=0Ablocked filer is a possible cause.- I note that =0Athe photos
show the inline=0Afilter used is the standard glass tube variety. =0ABlocka
ge of this type of=0Ainline filter has caused many incidents and at =0Aleas
t one written off Europa.=0A=0AAnalysing this filter shows it uses a 22 mic
ron =0Asized mesh.- This is way=0Asmaller than the 100 micron (largest) s
tipulated =0Aby Rotax.- I had a stoppage=0Adue to a blocked primary filte
r (same type) a few =0Ayears ago, this led to a=0Ahasty decent into Elstree
using the reserve feed =0A(thanks for the fire cover=0Aguys).- The filte
r was partially blocked with =0Atranslucent material.- It ran=0Aon the gr
ound but would not feed fuel to the =0Agoverened 5000 rpm of my AP332=0Acon
troller.=0A=0AHaving thereafter spent a year in a constant state =0Aof fuel
feed anxiety l=0Achanged them for Andair filters which have a 60 =0Amicron
filter size.- To date=0Athese have proven extremely reliable (100%).=0A
=0AIn 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a =0Aversion for 1/4in bore
fuel=0Alines could be made.- He said it was quite easy, =0Ajust a CNC pr
ogram change,=0Athe filters would then have a push-on nipple type =0Aend an
d not require screw=0Afit unions (as in my installation).- Some =0Adiscus
sion occurred with Andy=0ADraper about the mod.=0A=0AYesterday l checked wi
th Andair, he had not got =0Aaround to adapting the CNC=0Acode and hence no
thing had occurred at LAA =0AEngineering.=0A=0AIf it turns out that the cau
se of the stoppage on =0AGBXS was filter related=0A(this is speculative but
informed on my part) we =0Ashould support some action=0Awhich will lead to
changes in the use of these =0Astandard glass tube filters.=0AA possibilit
y for Europas could be a new filter, =0Aperhaps the Andair version.=0A=0A
=0AI shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the =0Acontinued use of t
he=0Aglass tube, 22. Micron filters.- If any Europa =0Aflyer, or other ai
rcraft=0Aoperator with the same filter type, can supply =0Ainformation rega
rding the use=0Aof these filters it may assist in deciding which =0Away to
go.- Information=0Asuch as frequency of inspection, frequency of =0Aclean
ing, stoppage or partial=0Ablockage info, leaks, other issues will br =0Agr
atefully received and treated=0Ain confidence. Likewise any info showing
=0Asatisfactory in service history is=0Aalso welcome. Please post info or e
mail direct to =0Ame.=0AJohn(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net=0A=0AJohn Wight
on=0AChief of Stress=0APilatus Aircraft=0A=0A--------=0AJohn Wighton=0AEuro
pa XS trigear G-IPOD=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp:/
/forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A--=0AThis message has been scanned for viruses and =0Adanger
ous content by Houxou,=0Aand is believed to be clean.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0Abrowse=0AUn/Subscription,=0AFAQ,=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator
=============
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Fuel filters |
Raimo
When you say "I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel
before first flight", was that done through the fuel filter? If yes, I
am curious why those particles were released during flight and not
during the flush. Could ie be vibration, or some other antistatic
effect during flight. May be an ionizing airgun can be used to release
stuck particles?
On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
>
> Carl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic,
>
> I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard
> warnings!). I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before
> first flight.
>
> Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power during cruise and my
> Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over mountaineous
> forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We
> looked each others and I elected to switch electric pump on AND changed to
> reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel
> system - there is always a clean filter waiting!). That was an autonomious
> reflex only. Rotax fired up immediately.
>
> Jyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction or
> after a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense. He
> also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had had a
> habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to somewhere.
> He had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all succesful
> and all because of service failure or service mistake. That has happened
> during his career say 50 years.
>
> My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles
> looking gold but they were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes. My
> guess was they (those particles) were "glued" to the tank inside surfaces by
> static forces.
>
> That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by flight it
> seemed to be cleaner and cleaner.
>
> Today I check my filters say after every 10 hours - always clean.
>
> When refueling I have only two alternatives:
>
> 1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield. Systems are aircraft
> quality, classified and certified, filtered and water-isolated.
>
> 2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w as good brand as
> possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnels debris /water
> isolator.
>
> Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any more fuel problems.
>
> I never clean my filters. I change them for new ones once a year (after
> 50-100 hrs service).
>
> I do not use those original puzzle filters w several parts and glass tube.
>
> One was broken during towing action and one was broken by itself in the
> hangar.
>
> I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - one
> piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way -
> cheap - unbreakable.
>
> Sold? How many you want?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Raimo Toivio
> FINLAND
> OH-XRT
>
>
> -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Carl Pattinson
> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters
>
>
> <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial
> shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's
> definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before
> assuming everything is clean.
>
> If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be
> addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their
> job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our
> tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps).
>
> In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some
> builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud
> which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe
> that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular
> issue.
>
> Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator setup
> instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one
> available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday and
> they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the setup is that any large lumps
> of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and
> will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very little
> muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron
> screen).
>
> We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on
> filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of a
> clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own
> debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not
> filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered.
>
> For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be
> possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be dropped
> down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external
> sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation.
>
> Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual
> warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage.
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G-LABS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
> Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
>
>
> Hi John
>
> I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the first
> few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning every
> 5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours
> caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning
> until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours the filter now
> need a clean about every 50 hours.
>
> My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as
> per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The
> beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all that
> is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. Cleaning is very easy
> you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the
> glass.
>
> I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect
> without taking it to bits.
>
> Pete
> Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton
> Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality
>
>
> The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully
> not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident.
> But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems,
> especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a
> blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to
> yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb
> out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a
> blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline
> filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of
> inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa.
>
> Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way
> smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage
> due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a
> hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover
> guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran
> on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332
> controller.
>
> Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l
> changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date
> these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
>
> In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel
> lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change,
> the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw
> fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy
> Draper about the mod.
>
> Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC
> code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering.
>
> If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related
> (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action
> which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters.
> A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version.
>
>
> I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the
> glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft
> operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use
> of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information
> such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial
> blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated
> in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is
> also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me.
> John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
>
> John Wighton
> Chief of Stress
> Pilatus Aircraft
>
> --------
> John Wighton
> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou,
> and is believed to be clean.
>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> Forums!
> List Admin.
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | EAA 21 Club First Saturday Fly-Ins at KEHR, Henderson, KY |
We will be preparing Hamburgers, Brats and NATHANS FAMOUS Hot Dogs for
all that fly in.
Just as New York's 21 Club has become known as the HAPPENING PLACE to be
and be seen, EAA 21 Club is the place to be on the first Saturday of
each month.
When: September 7, October 5
10:00 AM till 2:00 PM Central time.
Where: Henderson Kentucky City-County Airport (KEHR)
If KEHR is VFR then we will be cooking the best Gourmet Burgers,
Brats and Dogs this side of Sporty's.
Message 14
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|
Subject: | Re: Pitot Static - help needed. |
Dave,
I lost mine also. Just turned up a new tip out of aluminium, drilled the
holes copying the size from another Europa , locktited it in and it is
working well.
Cheers
ZK CHV
914 mono Airmaster
1100 hrs
Sue and Bill Sisley
On 2/09/2013 9:25 a.m., Dave Disney wrote:
>
> Just after take off from the LAA rally today (Sunday) I noticed that the ASI
wasn't working (I know - how come I didn't notice it on the take off run, truth
is I'm still new to the aircraft and was concentrating on keeping straight in
the cross wind when it leapt off the ground). I flew on home and managed to
land the aircraft using GPS ground speed.
>
> It seems that I may have broken off the black plastic static head which is now
missing.
>
> Questions are :-
>
> Where can I get a new one from?
>
> Is the pitot static head a standard type item?
>
> I see that Light Aero Spares have a similar looking unit in their catalog item 15144 shown here http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=V02FX7LLH is this the one fitted?
>
> Is it possible to get a new plastic bit or do I need to get a whole new unit
from Europa?
>
> Does anyone know if there is a metal alternative to the plastic bit available?
>
> Sorry there are so many questions, please be patient with a newbee.
>
> Dave Disney
> G-RJWX
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407873#407873
>
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Fuel filters.............( FURTHER SUGGEST>>>>>>>>> |
Hi! Guys,
Further to my message below I should also tell you that I also do an annual
wipe out through the large oval hole in the middle of the tank top which
contains the fuel level sender where I can get my arm through to wipe both
sides of the tank bottoms.
Sorry I omitted this basic detail.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
--> <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Raimo/all
You make an interesting statement with regards to switching to the reserve
tank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I think you should
remember that on a much used aircraft the filling system always delivers
"the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the best
will in the world it is likely to always store water contamination in a
greater proportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect that
the reserve switch will always be your salvation! The water drain valves
need to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard glass
Europa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair gascolator filters one for each
saddle tank side.
After an overnight stay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water
from the reserve drain valve which I believe went into the tank through the
locking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain .
This incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't think it was from their refuel
facility but who knows?
Best regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total airframe hours in excess of
1000.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio
Sent: 01 September 2013 19:03
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters
Carl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic,
I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard
warnings!). I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before
first flight.
Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power during cruise and my
Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over mountaineous
forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We
looked each others and I elected to switch electric pump on AND changed to
reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel
system - there is always a clean filter waiting!). That was an autonomious
reflex only.
Rotax fired up immediately.
Jyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction or
after a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense.
He also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had had a
habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to somewhere.
He had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all succesful
and all because of service failure or service mistake.
That has happened during his career say 50 years.
My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles
looking gold but they were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes.
My guess was they (those particles) were "glued"
to the tank inside surfaces by static forces.
That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by flight it
seemed to be cleaner and cleaner.
Today I check my filters say after every 10 hours - always clean.
When refueling I have only two alternatives:
1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield.
Systems are aircraft quality, classified and certified, filtered and
water-isolated.
2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w as good brand as
possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnels debris /water
isolator.
Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any more fuel problems.
I never clean my filters. I change them for new ones once a year (after
50-100 hrs service).
I do not use those original puzzle filters w several parts and glass tube.
One was broken during towing action and one was broken by itself in the
hangar.
I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - one
piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way -
cheap - unbreakable.
Sold? How many you want?
Cheers,
Raimo Toivio
FINLAND
OH-XRT
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: Carl Pattinson
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters
Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Hi All,
I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial
shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's
definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before
assuming everything is clean.
If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be
addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their
job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our
tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps).
In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some
builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud
which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe
that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular
issue.
Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator setup
instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one
available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday and
they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the setup is that any large lumps
of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and
will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very little
muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron
screen).
We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on
filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of a
clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own
debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not
filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered.
For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be
possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon
mesh) which could be dropped
down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external
sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation.
Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual
warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
<pete@lawless.info>
Hi John
I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the first
few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning every
5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours
caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning
until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At
550 hours the filter now
need a clean about every 50 hours.
My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as
per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The
beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all that
is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look.
Cleaning is very easy
you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the
glass.
I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect
without taking it to bits.
Pete
Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton
Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality
<john@wighton.net>
The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully
not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident.
But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems,
especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a
blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to
yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb
out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a
blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline
filter used is the standard glass tube variety.
Blockage of this type of
inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa.
Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way
smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage
due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a
hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover
guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran
on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332
controller.
Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l
changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date
these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel
lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change,
the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw
fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy
Draper about the mod.
Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC
code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering.
If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related
(this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action
which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters.
A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version.
I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the
glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft
operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use
of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information
such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial
blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated
in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is
also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me.
John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
John Wighton
Chief of Stress
Pilatus Aircraft
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
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Subject: | Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Europa-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Europa-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Europa-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Europa-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Europa-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
****************************************
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****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
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The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
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Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
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When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
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Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
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Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
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*********************
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- Latest version of the Europa-List Frequently Asked Question
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* Europa-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
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* Europa-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Europa-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
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******************************************
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Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
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Europa-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Europa-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
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Subject: | Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Europa-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Europa-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Europa-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Europa-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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|
Subject: | Re: Pitot Static - help needed. |
Hi Dave,
If you contact me off list, I may be able to help (ie: make up a new piece). Worth
speaking to Europa first in case they carry spares though in my experience
they dont seem to have much in stock. LAS are pretty good though and if these
are the same will probably be your best bet.
My Europa is one of the very early ones so im not familiar with this particular
pitot static head.
Carl Pattinson - G-LABS
07768 473222
Sent from my ASUS Pad
Dave Disney <davedisney@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Just after take off from the LAA rally today (Sunday) I noticed that the ASI wasn't
working (I know - how come I didn't notice it on the take off run, truth
is I'm still new to the aircraft and was concentrating on keeping straight in
the cross wind when it leapt off the ground). I flew on home and managed to land
the aircraft using GPS ground speed.
>
>It seems that I may have broken off the black plastic static head which is now
missing.
>
>Questions are :-
>
>Where can I get a new one from?
>
>Is the pitot static head a standard type item?
>
>I see that Light Aero Spares have a similar looking unit in their catalog item 15144 shown here http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=V02FX7LLH is this the one fitted?
>
>Is it possible to get a new plastic bit or do I need to get a whole new unit from
Europa?
>
>Does anyone know if there is a metal alternative to the plastic bit available?
>
>Sorry there are so many questions, please be patient with a newbee.
>
>Dave Disney
>G-RJWX
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407873#407873
>
>
Message 19
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|
Graeme, thanks for the feedback and as I was rushing around between several
stands I did not know who had turned up or not, so good idea for the future
.
Steve Pitt
Chairman, Europa Club
On Sunday, 1 September 2013, graeme bird wrote:
script:;>
> >
>
> I ordered the Powerflarm core Sat at the LAA rally UK from LX avionics
> (=A3999 inc). Seems its gaining momentum; RAF have ordered it for their
> aircadet trainers as well and a big take up of FLARM at Dunstable near me
.
> I am not sure whether to get a stand alone display or to rely on Sky demo
n
> which means a blue tooth link and a new nexus7 or phone (bluetooth seems
a
> bit excessive for where a few inches of serial cable would do).
> The stand alone displays look a bit micro to me? Any comments?
> Is the audio license worth having, I would guess so?
>
> BTW great to see so many Europas and club members at the show.
>
> Would it be a good idea to have a sign in list at the tent so one could
> see who has arrived been?
> For me its always interesting to see the faces of the people from the
> forum.
>
> --------
> Graeme Bird
> G-UMPY
> Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
> Newby: 75 hours 18 months
> g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407870#407870
>
>
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