---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/01/13: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:23 AM - Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality (John Wighton) 2. 03:08 AM - Fuel filters (Pete Lawless) 3. 03:30 AM - Re: Classic radiator(s) needed (Philip Levi) 4. 04:21 AM - Re: Fuel filters (Carl Pattinson) 5. 11:03 AM - Re: Fuel filters (Raimo Toivio) 6. 01:29 PM - Re: Fuel filters (Bob Harrison) 7. 02:06 PM - Re: Powerflarm (graeme bird) 8. 02:25 PM - Pitot Static - help needed. (Dave Disney) 9. 02:31 PM - Re: Re: Powerflarm (David Watts) 10. 02:48 PM - Re: Fuel filters (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 11. 03:56 PM - Re: Fuel filters (K BURNS) 12. 06:33 PM - Re: Fuel filters (Andrew Sarangan) 13. 07:47 PM - EAA 21 Club First Saturday Fly-Ins at KEHR, Henderson, KY (Steve Eberhart) 14. 08:45 PM - Re: Pitot Static - help needed. (bill) 15. 10:37 PM - FW: Fuel filters.............( FURTHER SUGGEST>>>>>>>>> (Bob Harrison) 16. 11:01 PM - Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 17. 11:05 PM - Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) 18. 11:25 PM - Re: Pitot Static - help needed. (Carl Pattinson) 19. 11:39 PM - Re: Re: Powerflarm (PITT STEVEN) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:23:58 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality From: "John Wighton" The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident. But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems, especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa. Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332 controller. Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date these have proven extremely reliable (100%). In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change, the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy Draper about the mod. Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering. If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters. A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version. I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me. John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net John Wighton Chief of Stress Pilatus Aircraft -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:47 AM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters Hi John I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the first few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning every 5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours the filter now need a clean about every 50 hours. My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all that is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. Cleaning is very easy you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the glass. I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect without taking it to bits. Pete Classic #109 Rotax 912UL -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident. But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems, especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa. Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332 controller. Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date these have proven extremely reliable (100%). In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change, the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy Draper about the mod. Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering. If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters. A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version. I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me. John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net John Wighton Chief of Stress Pilatus Aircraft -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:46 AM PST US From: Philip Levi Subject: Re: Europa-List: Classic radiator(s) needed Richard I appreciate you are in Kenya, however the following may help. I recently had to have my radiator repaired at an annual check. Europa were unable to provide a replacement at the time. My engineer, Gary Johnson, found somewhere in the UK some engineers, I believe they were a motorcycle repair organisation, and they refurbished the radiator and it came back as new at extremely modest cost, far less than replacement. May I suggest you contact Gary - his e-mail address is and you may be able to post your radiator to the people that repaired mine. Alternatively you may be able to find similar motor-bike servicing specialists in Kenya as I understand that the Europa radiators were originally motorcycle radiators with minor modifications made in order to fit them to the aircraft. *Philip* * * *Philip Levi* G-BWWB, Europa Monowheel Classic, Old Warden. On 31 August 2013 16:53, Richard Lamprey wrote: > lamprey.richard@gmail.com> > > Greetings from Kenya > > Does anyone have a spare starboard classic radiator? I could buy the pair > if you are selling as a pair. I have a UK address to send to if necessary. > > My starboard radiator has sprung a small leak. Has anyone tried Radweld > or something similar? > > Best, > Richard > Classic reg 5Y-LRY > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407814#407814 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:49 AM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters Hi All, I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before assuming everything is clean. If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps). In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular issue. Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator setup instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday and they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the setup is that any large lumps of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very little muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron screen). We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of a clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered. For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be dropped down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation. Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage. Carl Pattinson G-LABS -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08 Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters Hi John I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the first few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning every 5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours the filter now need a clean about every 50 hours. My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all that is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. Cleaning is very easy you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the glass. I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect without taking it to bits. Pete Classic #109 Rotax 912UL -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident. But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems, especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa. Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332 controller. Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date these have proven extremely reliable (100%). In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change, the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy Draper about the mod. Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering. If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters. A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version. I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me. John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net John Wighton Chief of Stress Pilatus Aircraft -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:39 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters Carl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic, I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard warnings!). I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before first flight. Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power during cruise and my Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over mountaineous forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We looked each others and I elected to switch electric pump on AND changed to reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel system - there is always a clean filter waiting!). That was an autonomious reflex only. Rotax fired up immediately. Jyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction or after a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense. He also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had had a habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to somewhere. He had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all succesful and all because of service failure or service mistake. That has happened during his career say 50 years. My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles looking gold but they were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes. My guess was they (those particles) were "glued" to the tank inside surfaces by static forces. That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by flight it seemed to be cleaner and cleaner. Today I check my filters say after every 10 hours - always clean. When refueling I have only two alternatives: 1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield. Systems are aircraft quality, classified and certified, filtered and water-isolated. 2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w as good brand as possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnels debris /water isolator. Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any more fuel problems. I never clean my filters. I change them for new ones once a year (after 50-100 hrs service). I do not use those original puzzle filters w several parts and glass tube. One was broken during towing action and one was broken by itself in the hangar. I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - one piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way - cheap - unbreakable. Sold? How many you want? Cheers, Raimo Toivio FINLAND OH-XRT -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Carl Pattinson Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters Pattinson" Hi All, I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before assuming everything is clean. If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps). In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular issue. Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator setup instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday and they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the setup is that any large lumps of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very little muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron screen). We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of a clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered. For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be dropped down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation. Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage. Carl Pattinson G-LABS -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08 Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters Hi John I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the first few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning every 5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours the filter now need a clean about every 50 hours. My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all that is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. Cleaning is very easy you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the glass. I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect without taking it to bits. Pete Classic #109 Rotax 912UL -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident. But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems, especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa. Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332 controller. Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date these have proven extremely reliable (100%). In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change, the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy Draper about the mod. Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering. If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters. A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version. I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me. John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net John Wighton Chief of Stress Pilatus Aircraft -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:49 PM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters Hi! Raimo/all You make an interesting statement with regards to switching to the reserve tank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I think you should remember that on a much used aircraft the filling system always delivers "the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the best will in the world it is likely to always store water contamination in a greater proportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect that the reserve switch will always be your salvation! The water drain valves need to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard glass Europa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair gascolator filters one for each saddle tank side. After an overnight stay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water from the reserve drain valve which I believe went into the tank through the locking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain . This incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't think it was from their refuel facility but who knows? Best regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total airframe hours in excess of 1000. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: 01 September 2013 19:03 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters Carl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic, I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard warnings!). I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before first flight. Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power during cruise and my Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over mountaineous forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We looked each others and I elected to switch electric pump on AND changed to reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel system - there is always a clean filter waiting!). That was an autonomious reflex only. Rotax fired up immediately. Jyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction or after a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense. He also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had had a habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to somewhere. He had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all succesful and all because of service failure or service mistake. That has happened during his career say 50 years. My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles looking gold but they were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes. My guess was they (those particles) were "glued" to the tank inside surfaces by static forces. That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by flight it seemed to be cleaner and cleaner. Today I check my filters say after every 10 hours - always clean. When refueling I have only two alternatives: 1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield. Systems are aircraft quality, classified and certified, filtered and water-isolated. 2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w as good brand as possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnels debris /water isolator. Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any more fuel problems. I never clean my filters. I change them for new ones once a year (after 50-100 hrs service). I do not use those original puzzle filters w several parts and glass tube. One was broken during towing action and one was broken by itself in the hangar. I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - one piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way - cheap - unbreakable. Sold? How many you want? Cheers, Raimo Toivio FINLAND OH-XRT -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Carl Pattinson Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters Pattinson" Hi All, I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before assuming everything is clean. If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps). In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular issue. Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator setup instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday and they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the setup is that any large lumps of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very little muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron screen). We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of a clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered. For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be dropped down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation. Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage. Carl Pattinson G-LABS -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08 Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters Hi John I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the first few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning every 5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours the filter now need a clean about every 50 hours. My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all that is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. Cleaning is very easy you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the glass. I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect without taking it to bits. Pete Classic #109 Rotax 912UL -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident. But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems, especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa. Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332 controller. Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date these have proven extremely reliable (100%). In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change, the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy Draper about the mod. Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering. If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters. A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version. I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me. John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net John Wighton Chief of Stress Pilatus Aircraft -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:06:16 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Powerflarm From: "graeme bird" I ordered the Powerflarm core Sat at the LAA rally UK from LX avionics (999 inc). Seems its gaining momentum; RAF have ordered it for their aircadet trainers as well and a big take up of FLARM at Dunstable near me. I am not sure whether to get a stand alone display or to rely on Sky demon which means a blue tooth link and a new nexus7 or phone (bluetooth seems a bit excessive for where a few inches of serial cable would do). The stand alone displays look a bit micro to me? Any comments? Is the audio license worth having, I would guess so? BTW great to see so many Europas and club members at the show. Would it be a good idea to have a sign in list at the tent so one could see who has arrived been? For me its always interesting to see the faces of the people from the forum. -------- Graeme Bird G-UMPY Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W Newby: 75 hours 18 months g(at)gdbmk.co.uk Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407870#407870 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:36 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Pitot Static - help needed. From: "Dave Disney" Just after take off from the LAA rally today (Sunday) I noticed that the ASI wasn't working (I know - how come I didn't notice it on the take off run, truth is I'm still new to the aircraft and was concentrating on keeping straight in the cross wind when it leapt off the ground). I flew on home and managed to land the aircraft using GPS ground speed. It seems that I may have broken off the black plastic static head which is now missing. Questions are :- Where can I get a new one from? Is the pitot static head a standard type item? I see that Light Aero Spares have a similar looking unit in their catalog item 15144 shown here http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=V02FX7LLH is this the one fitted? Is it possible to get a new plastic bit or do I need to get a whole new unit from Europa? Does anyone know if there is a metal alternative to the plastic bit available? Sorry there are so many questions, please be patient with a newbee. Dave Disney G-RJWX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407873#407873 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:31:31 PM PST US From: David Watts Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Powerflarm I bought a PowerFlarm Core from LX Avionics on Friday at the rally. I have been running SkyDemon on an iPad in the cockpit for over a year and having seen the imprssive traffic system on SkyDemon at AeroExpo earlier this year, a month ago I bought a Butterfly Connect bluetooth (in preparation), so hopefully I will be up and running with the system in the not too distant future. Dave Watts G-BXDY On 1 Sep 2013, at 22:05, "graeme bird" wrote: > > I ordered the Powerflarm core Sat at the LAA rally UK from LX avionics (999 inc). Seems its gaining momentum; RAF have ordered it for their aircadet trainers as well and a big take up of FLARM at Dunstable near me. I am not sure whether to get a stand alone display or to rely on Sky demon which means a blue tooth link and a new nexus7 or phone (bluetooth seems a bit excessive for where a few inches of serial cable would do). > The stand alone displays look a bit micro to me? Any comments? > Is the audio license worth having, I would guess so? > > BTW great to see so many Europas and club members at the show. > > Would it be a good idea to have a sign in list at the tent so one could see who has arrived been? > For me its always interesting to see the faces of the people from the forum. > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W > Newby: 75 hours 18 months > g(at)gdbmk.co.uk > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407870#407870 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:42 PM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters Bob=0Agood to see you at the show. =0AI have seen water leak into the tank from overnight rain.=0Athrough the plastic fuel tank cap that many Europas have. Difficult to adjust when=0Athey get corroded and the hut rusts up. Al so the size of the O ring is imprtant.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________ ___________________=0A From: Bob Harrison =0ATo: eu ropa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 1 September 2013, 21:29=0ASubject: "Bob Harrison" =0A=0AHi! Raimo/all=0AYou make an in teresting statement with regards to switching to the reserve=0Atank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I think you should=0Aremember th at on a much used aircraft the filling system always delivers=0A"the new sh it " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the best=0Awill in t he world it is likely to always store water contamination in a=0Agreater pr oportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect that=0Athe re serve switch will always be your salvation!- The water drain valves=0Anee d to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard glass=0AE uropa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair gascolator filters one for each =0Asaddle tank side.=0AAfter an overnight stay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water=0Afrom the reserve drain valve which I believe went into the tank through the=0Alocking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain .=0AThis incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't t hink it was from their refuel=0Afacility but who knows?=0ABest regards=0ABo b Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total airframe hours in excess of =0A1000.=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-europa-list-server@m atronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio=0ASent: 01 September 2013 19:03=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.c om=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters=0A=0A--> Europa-List message po sted by: "Raimo Toivio" =0A=0ACarl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic,=0A=0AI did it also. I cleaned my tank ve ry careful several times (I had heard=0Awarnings!). I pumped through the sy stem at least 300 liters of fuel before=0Afirst flight.=0A=0ADespite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power during cruise and my=0ARotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over mountaineous=0Aforest. M y co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We=0Alooked each others and I elected to switch electric pump on AND changed to=0Areser ve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel=0Asyste m - there is always a clean filter waiting!). That was an autonomious=0Aref lex only. =0ARotax fired up immediately.=0A=0AJyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction or=0Aafter a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense. =0AHe also said he is alive beca use after every service or repair he had had a=0Ahabit to fly at least 15 m inutes over the field before heading to somewhere.=0AHe had completed 9 for ced landings and all over the runways, all succesful=0Aand all because of s ervice failure or service mistake. =0AThat has happened during his career s ay 50 years.=0A=0AMy fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles=0Alooking gold but they were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes. =0AMy guess was they (those particles) were "glued" =0A to the tank inside surfaces by static forces.=0A=0AThat after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by flight it=0Aseemed to be cleaner and cleaner.=0A=0AToday I check my filters say after every 10 hours - alway s clean.=0A=0AWhen refueling I have only two alternatives:=0A=0A1) Refuel 1 00LL direct to my ac in the airfield. =0ASystems are aircraft quality, clas sified and certified, filtered and=0Awater-isolated.=0A=0A2) Refuel autofue l 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w as good brand as=0Apossible direc t to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnel=B4s debris /water=0Aisolator.=0A=0A Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any more fuel problems.=0A =0AI never clean my filters. I change them for new ones once a year (after =0A50-100 hrs service).=0A=0AI do not use those original puzzle filters w s everal parts and glass tube.=0A=0AOne was broken during towing action and o ne was broken by itself in the=0Ahangar.=0A=0AI use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - one=0Apiece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way -=0Acheap - unbreakable.=0A =0ASold? How many you want?=0A=0ACheers,=0A=0ARaimo Toivio=0AFINLAND=0AOH-X RT=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Alkuper=E4inen viesti-----=0AFrom: Carl P attinson=0ASent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM=0ATo: europa-list@matro nics.com=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters=0A=0A--> Europa-List mess age posted by: "Carl=0APattinson" =0A=0AHi All ,=0A=0AI am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked =0Afilters after the in itial=0Ashakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out =0Atanks after build but it's=0Adefinitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel =0Athrough the s ystem before=0Aassuming everything is clean.=0A=0AIf you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an =0Aissue that should be=0Aaddressed first rather ins tead of relying on the =0Afuel filters to do their=0Ajob. I accept that som e of us have less control =0Aover what we put in our=0Atanks than others (i e: if you are purchasing fuel =0Aat the airfield pumps).=0A=0AIn the early days I recall that clogged filters =0Awere an issue for some=0Abuilders. Th e filters were becoming overwhelmed by =0Alarge amounts of crud=0Awhich sho uld never have been there in the first =0Aplace - I do not believe=0Athat c hanging the size of the filter mesh would =0Aaddress this particular=0Aissu e.=0A=0APersonally I never liked the factory system and =0Aopted for a gasc olator setup=0Ainstead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the =0Acheap ki t builders one=0Aavailable from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced =0Aone at the LAA yesterday and=0Athey are selling for =A360) . The beauty of the =0A setup is that any large lumps=0Aof crud (or water) tend to settle in the bo ttom of =0Athe gascolator bowl and=0Awill be drained off when you do your d o your daily =0Afuel checks - very little=0Amuck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the =0Abowl (this is a 120 micron=0Ascreen).=0A=0AWe are fortun ate in that all our fuel is from cans =0Awhich we insist on=0Afiltering thr ough a fine mesh funnel and we have =0Anever found any signs of a=0Aclogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel =0Acans generate their own=0Ade bris as the internal paint on the cans tends to =0Aflake off and if not=0Af iltered would cause problems if not pre filtered.=0A=0AFor those who have t o rely on airfield based =0Asupplies if it should be=0Apossible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon =0Amesh) which could be dropped=0Adown the fuel filler opening to ensure the =0Acleanliness of any external=0Asources of fu el. This could even be a permanent =0Ainstallation.=0A=0AAdditionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge =0Awhich would give a visual=0Awarning- of low pressure due to a filter blockage.=0A=0ACarl Pattinson=0AG-LABS=0A=0A-- ---Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com=0A[ mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On =0ABehalf Of Pete Lawless =0ASent: 01 September 2013 11:08=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: wless" =0A=0A=0AHi John=0A=0AI have the original glass f ilters and am very =0Ahappy with them.- In the first=0Afew hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and =0Amine needed cleaning every=0A5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one =0Aoccasion at about 10 hours=0Acaused fuel starvation on the climb out.- Then =0Aless frequently cleaning=0Aun til the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At =0A550 hours the filter no w=0Aneed a clean about every 50 hours.=0A=0AMy filters are installed under the seats protected =0Aby a Perspex cover, as=0Aper the original Classic la yout.- I inspect them =0ABEFORE EVERY FLIGHT.- The=0Abeauty of the glas s container is that you can see =0Awhat is going on, all that=0Ais needed i s to pull up the seat cushion and look. =0ACleaning is very easy=0Ayou just change the filter screen for a new one =0Aand wipe the inside of the=0Agla ss.=0A=0AI would be very reluctant to install a filter unit =0AI could not inspect=0Awithout taking it to bits.=0A=0APete=0AClassic #109 Rotax 912UL =0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-europa-list-server@mat ronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On =0ABehalf O f John Wighton=0ASent: 01 September 2013 09:23=0ATo: europa-list@matronics. com=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of =0Afather and daughter ighton.net>=0A=0AThe photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft =0Aare sh ocking and hopefully=0Anot an indicator of the condition she was in at =0At he time of the accident.=0ABut l have to say that if the level of neglect =0Aextended to the systems,=0Aespecially the fuel system, the cause of the =0Aincident may easily have been a=0Ablocked filter.- According to a clos e friend of =0ADavid, whom l spoke to=0Ayesterday at the Rally,- the acci dent occurred at =0Afull power in the climb=0Aout after refuelling.- If s o the classic case of =0Apower starvation due to a=0Ablocked filer is a pos sible cause.- I note that =0Athe photos show the inline=0Afilter used is the standard glass tube variety. =0ABlockage of this type of=0Ainline filte r has caused many incidents and at =0Aleast one written off Europa.=0A=0AAn alysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron =0Asized mesh.- This is way =0Asmaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated =0Aby Rotax.- I had a stoppage=0Adue to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few =0Ayears ago, this led to a=0Ahasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed =0A(thank s for the fire cover=0Aguys).- The filter was partially blocked with =0At ranslucent material.- It ran=0Aon the ground but would not feed fuel to t he =0Agoverened 5000 rpm of my AP332=0Acontroller.=0A=0AHaving thereafter s pent a year in a constant state =0Aof fuel feed anxiety l=0Achanged them fo r Andair filters which have a 60 =0Amicron filter size.- To date=0Athese have proven extremely reliable (100%).=0A=0AIn 2012 l contacted Andy at And air to ask if a =0Aversion for 1/4in bore fuel=0Alines could be made.- He said it was quite easy, =0Ajust a CNC program change,=0Athe filters would then have a push-on nipple type =0Aend and not require screw=0Afit unions ( as in my installation).- Some =0Adiscussion occurred with Andy=0ADraper a bout the mod.=0A=0AYesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got =0Aaroun d to adapting the CNC=0Acode and hence nothing had occurred at LAA =0AEngin eering.=0A=0AIf it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on =0AGBXS was filter related=0A(this is speculative but informed on my part) we =0Ashould support some action=0Awhich will lead to changes in the use of these =0Ast andard glass tube filters.=0AA possibility for Europas could be a new filte r, =0Aperhaps the Andair version.=0A=0A=0AI shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the =0Acontinued use of the=0Aglass tube, 22. Micron filters. - If any Europa =0Aflyer, or other aircraft=0Aoperator with the same filt er type, can supply =0Ainformation regarding the use=0Aof these filters it may assist in deciding which =0Away to go.- Information=0Asuch as frequen cy of inspection, frequency of =0Acleaning, stoppage or partial=0Ablockage info, leaks, other issues will br =0Agratefully received and treated=0Ain c onfidence. Likewise any info showing =0Asatisfactory in service history is =0Aalso welcome. Please post info or email direct to =0Ame.=0AJohn(dot)wigh ton(at)ultraflight.net=0A=0AJohn Wighton=0AChief of Stress=0APilatus Aircra ft=0A=0A--------=0AJohn Wighton=0AEuropa XS trigear G-IPOD=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARe ad this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p =407837#407837=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A--=0AThis message has b een scanned for viruses and =0Adangerous content by Houxou,=0Aand is believ ed to be clean.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Abrowse=0AUn/Subscription,=0AFAQ, =0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0AForums!=0AList Admin. = ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:50 PM PST US From: K BURNS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters Bob,=0AYou are correct a saddle tank type reserve will build up water in th e bottom if you take no preventative actions, as you suggest water drain va lves,(with the aircraft levelled to remove more water,-but I would sugges t that the only way to know if the engine will run on that tank (filter / p ipe/ valve position /pump combination) is to 1 ground run it (if new build or restoration fuel flow tests on both sides of tank) then 2 at safe height over a suitable airfield-change to reserve and run on reserve as a regul ar check /flushing run on that side of the tank.=0AIf you find it difficult to change-tanks with the standard fuel valve position, then consider the benefits of-removing the valve and putting it where you can do it easily .=0AAlso I would consider a Gascilator -valuable even if its primary purp ose is as a water trap as you can not be sure to drain all the water all th e time.=0AAlso we take pump samples at our airfield, on a daily basis which are left to settle out water and contaminants (in glass Jam Jars) so fuel quality is controlled (Look for globules in bottom of jar. =0ARather loose some interior trim or other non essentials...=0A-=0AI hope these consider ations will help, they are not original thinking , or rocket science, I hav e also discussed with more than a few guys at the LAA show the need for tra ined /automatic response to power loss (push instantly-forward on stick t o an attitude that speed is maintained, and also plan for that eventuality during cockpit checks, plan to land ahead until you have the height to turn (Know what height you need to complete a turn),--the glider pilots amo ngst you will recognise the BGA-training and pilot review-methods-- ...used to reduce stall spin accidents on winch launching -found only poor examples on u tube but helps to see results ...the second failure is a bit low for comfort to do a 360..=0A-=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFT1 K1rQvHA=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqKrQ5uAbRg=0A-=0AKevin=0A- =0A-=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Bob Harrison =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 1 Sep tember 2013, 21:29=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters=0A =0A=0A--> E uropa-List message posted by: "Bob Harrison" =0A=0A Hi! Raimo/all=0AYou make an interesting statement with regards to switching to the reserve=0Atank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I think you should=0Aremember that on a much used aircraft the filling system always delivers=0A"the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the best=0Awill in the world it is likely to always store water c ontamination in a=0Agreater proportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect that=0Athe reserve switch will always be your salvation! - The water drain valves=0Aneed to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard glass=0AEuropa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair gascolator filters one for each=0Asaddle tank side.=0AAfter an overnight s tay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water=0Afrom the reserve d rain valve which I believe went into the tank through the=0Alocking fuel ca p so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain .=0AThis incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't think it was from their refuel=0Afacility bu t who knows?=0ABest regards=0ABob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 tot al airframe hours in excess of=0A1000.=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFr om: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio=0ASent: 01 September 2013 19:03 =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters i>=0A=0ACarl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic,=0A=0AI d id it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard=0Awar nings!). I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before=0Af irst flight.=0A=0ADespite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power d uring cruise and my=0ARotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went dow n. Over mountaineous=0Aforest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous te st pilot (google!). We=0Alooked each others and I elected to switch electri c pump on AND changed to=0Areserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel=0Asystem - there is always a clean filter waiting! ). That was an autonomious=0Areflex only. =0ARotax fired up immediately.=0A =0AJyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction o r=0Aafter a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense. =0AHe also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had ha d a=0Ahabit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to som ewhere.=0AHe had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all succesful=0Aand all because of service failure or service mistake. =0AThat has happened during his career say 50 years.=0A=0AMy fuel filter was checke d in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles=0Alooking gold but they were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes. =0AMy guess was they (t hose particles) were "glued" =0Ato the tank inside surfaces by static force s.=0A=0AThat after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by f light it=0Aseemed to be cleaner and cleaner.=0A=0AToday I check my filters say after every 10 hours - always clean.=0A=0AWhen refueling I have only tw o alternatives:=0A=0A1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield. =0ASy stems are aircraft quality, classified and certified, filtered and=0Awater- isolated.=0A=0A2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w a s good brand as=0Apossible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnel=B4s debris /water=0Aisolator.=0A=0ASince that scary action 2007, I have had ne ver any more fuel problems.=0A=0AI never clean my filters. I change them fo r new ones once a year (after=0A50-100 hrs service).=0A=0AI do not use thos e original puzzle filters w several parts and glass tube.=0A=0AOne was brok en during towing action and one was broken by itself in the=0Ahangar.=0A=0A I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - on e=0Apiece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way -=0Acheap - unbreakable.=0A=0ASold? How many you want?=0A=0ACheers,=0A=0AR aimo Toivio=0AFINLAND=0AOH-XRT=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Alkuper=E4ine n viesti-----=0AFrom: Carl Pattinson=0ASent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:2 1 PM=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filte freeserve.co.uk>=0A=0AHi All,=0A=0AI am surprised that anyone ever gets blo cked =0Afilters after the initial=0Ashakedown. I know it is difficult to cl ean out =0Atanks after build but it's=0Adefinitely worth pumping a few gall ons of fuel =0Athrough the system before=0Aassuming everything is clean.=0A =0AIf you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an =0Aissue that should be =0Aaddressed first rather instead of relying on the =0Afuel filters to do t heir=0Ajob. I accept that some of us have less control =0Aover what we put in our=0Atanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel =0Aat the airfie ld pumps).=0A=0AIn the early days I recall that clogged filters =0Awere an issue for some=0Abuilders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by =0Alarg e amounts of crud=0Awhich should never have been there in the first =0Aplac e - I do not believe=0Athat changing the size of the filter mesh would =0Aa ddress this particular=0Aissue.=0A=0APersonally I never liked the factory s ystem and =0Aopted for a gascolator setup=0Ainstead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the =0Acheap kit builders one=0Aavailable from LAS or Aircraf t Spruce (I priced =0Aone at the LAA yesterday and=0Athey are selling for =A360) . The beauty of the =0Asetup is that any large lumps=0Aof crud (or w ater) tend to settle in the bottom of =0Athe gascolator bowl and=0Awill be drained off when you do your do your daily =0Afuel checks - very little=0Am uck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the =0Abowl (this is a 120 micron =0Ascreen).=0A=0AWe are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans =0Awhic h we insist on=0Afiltering through a fine mesh funnel and we have =0Anever found any signs of a=0Aclogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel =0Acans generate their own=0Adebris as the internal paint on the cans tends to =0Aflake off and if not=0Afiltered would cause problems if not pre filt ered.=0A=0AFor those who have to rely on airfield based =0Asupplies if it s hould be=0Apossible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon =0Amesh) which co uld be dropped=0Adown the fuel filler opening to ensure the =0Acleanliness of any external=0Asources of fuel. This could even be a permanent =0Ainstal lation.=0A=0AAdditionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge =0Awhich would give a visual=0Awarning- of low pressure due to a filter blockage.=0A=0A Carl Pattinson=0AG-LABS=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-europ a-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.co m] On =0ABehalf Of Pete Lawless=0ASent: 01 September 2013 11:08=0ATo: europ a-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Europa-List: Fuel filters=0A=0A--> Europa-L ist message posted by: "Pete Lawless" =0A=0A=0AHi John =0A=0AI have the original glass filters and am very =0Ahappy with them.- In the first=0Afew hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and =0Amine ne eded cleaning every=0A5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one =0Aoc casion at about 10 hours=0Acaused fuel starvation on the climb out.- Then =0Aless frequently cleaning=0Auntil the tank settled down at about 100 hou rs. At =0A550 hours the filter now=0Aneed a clean about every 50 hours.=0A =0AMy filters are installed under the seats protected =0Aby a Perspex cover , as=0Aper the original Classic layout.- I inspect them =0ABEFORE EVERY F LIGHT.- The=0Abeauty of the glass container is that you can see =0Awhat i s going on, all that=0Ais needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. =0ACleaning is very easy=0Ayou just change the filter screen for a new one =0Aand wipe the inside of the=0Aglass.=0A=0AI would be very reluctant to in stall a filter unit =0AI could not inspect=0Awithout taking it to bits.=0A =0APete=0AClassic #109 Rotax 912UL=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0A From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-europa-list-se rver@matronics.com] On =0ABehalf Of John Wighton=0ASent: 01 September 2013 09:23=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mai l report of =0Afather and daughter fatality=0A=0A--> Europa-List message po sted by: "John Wighton" =0A=0A=0AThe photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft =0Aare shocking and hopefully=0Anot an indicator o f the condition she was in at =0Athe time of the accident.=0ABut l have to say that if the level of neglect =0Aextended to the systems,=0Aespecially t he fuel system, the cause of the =0Aincident may easily have been a=0Ablock ed filter.- According to a close friend of =0ADavid, whom l spoke to=0Aye sterday at the Rally,- the accident occurred at =0Afull power in the clim b=0Aout after refuelling.- If so the classic case of =0Apower starvation due to a=0Ablocked filer is a possible cause.- I note that =0Athe photos show the inline=0Afilter used is the standard glass tube variety. =0ABlocka ge of this type of=0Ainline filter has caused many incidents and at =0Aleas t one written off Europa.=0A=0AAnalysing this filter shows it uses a 22 mic ron =0Asized mesh.- This is way=0Asmaller than the 100 micron (largest) s tipulated =0Aby Rotax.- I had a stoppage=0Adue to a blocked primary filte r (same type) a few =0Ayears ago, this led to a=0Ahasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed =0A(thanks for the fire cover=0Aguys).- The filte r was partially blocked with =0Atranslucent material.- It ran=0Aon the gr ound but would not feed fuel to the =0Agoverened 5000 rpm of my AP332=0Acon troller.=0A=0AHaving thereafter spent a year in a constant state =0Aof fuel feed anxiety l=0Achanged them for Andair filters which have a 60 =0Amicron filter size.- To date=0Athese have proven extremely reliable (100%).=0A =0AIn 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a =0Aversion for 1/4in bore fuel=0Alines could be made.- He said it was quite easy, =0Ajust a CNC pr ogram change,=0Athe filters would then have a push-on nipple type =0Aend an d not require screw=0Afit unions (as in my installation).- Some =0Adiscus sion occurred with Andy=0ADraper about the mod.=0A=0AYesterday l checked wi th Andair, he had not got =0Aaround to adapting the CNC=0Acode and hence no thing had occurred at LAA =0AEngineering.=0A=0AIf it turns out that the cau se of the stoppage on =0AGBXS was filter related=0A(this is speculative but informed on my part) we =0Ashould support some action=0Awhich will lead to changes in the use of these =0Astandard glass tube filters.=0AA possibilit y for Europas could be a new filter, =0Aperhaps the Andair version.=0A=0A =0AI shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the =0Acontinued use of t he=0Aglass tube, 22. Micron filters.- If any Europa =0Aflyer, or other ai rcraft=0Aoperator with the same filter type, can supply =0Ainformation rega rding the use=0Aof these filters it may assist in deciding which =0Away to go.- Information=0Asuch as frequency of inspection, frequency of =0Aclean ing, stoppage or partial=0Ablockage info, leaks, other issues will br =0Agr atefully received and treated=0Ain confidence. Likewise any info showing =0Asatisfactory in service history is=0Aalso welcome. Please post info or e mail direct to =0Ame.=0AJohn(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net=0A=0AJohn Wight on=0AChief of Stress=0APilatus Aircraft=0A=0A--------=0AJohn Wighton=0AEuro pa XS trigear G-IPOD=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp:/ /forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A--=0AThis message has been scanned for viruses and =0Adanger ous content by Houxou,=0Aand is believed to be clean.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0Abrowse=0AUn/Subscription,=0AFAQ,=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator ============= ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:20 PM PST US From: Andrew Sarangan Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters Raimo When you say "I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before first flight", was that done through the fuel filter? If yes, I am curious why those particles were released during flight and not during the flush. Could ie be vibration, or some other antistatic effect during flight. May be an ionizing airgun can be used to release stuck particles? On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote: > > Carl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic, > > I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard > warnings!). I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before > first flight. > > Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power during cruise and my > Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over mountaineous > forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We > looked each others and I elected to switch electric pump on AND changed to > reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel > system - there is always a clean filter waiting!). That was an autonomious > reflex only. Rotax fired up immediately. > > Jyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction or > after a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense. He > also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had had a > habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to somewhere. > He had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all succesful > and all because of service failure or service mistake. That has happened > during his career say 50 years. > > My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles > looking gold but they were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes. My > guess was they (those particles) were "glued" to the tank inside surfaces by > static forces. > > That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by flight it > seemed to be cleaner and cleaner. > > Today I check my filters say after every 10 hours - always clean. > > When refueling I have only two alternatives: > > 1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield. Systems are aircraft > quality, classified and certified, filtered and water-isolated. > > 2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w as good brand as > possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnels debris /water > isolator. > > Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any more fuel problems. > > I never clean my filters. I change them for new ones once a year (after > 50-100 hrs service). > > I do not use those original puzzle filters w several parts and glass tube. > > One was broken during towing action and one was broken by itself in the > hangar. > > I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - one > piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way - > cheap - unbreakable. > > Sold? How many you want? > > Cheers, > > Raimo Toivio > FINLAND > OH-XRT > > > -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Carl Pattinson > Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters > > > > > Hi All, > > I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial > shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's > definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before > assuming everything is clean. > > If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be > addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their > job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our > tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps). > > In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some > builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud > which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe > that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular > issue. > > Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator setup > instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one > available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday and > they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the setup is that any large lumps > of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and > will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very little > muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron > screen). > > We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on > filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of a > clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own > debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not > filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered. > > For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be > possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be dropped > down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external > sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation. > > Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual > warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage. > > Carl Pattinson > G-LABS > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless > Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters > > > Hi John > > I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the first > few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning every > 5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours > caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning > until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours the filter now > need a clean about every 50 hours. > > My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as > per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The > beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all that > is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. Cleaning is very easy > you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the > glass. > > I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect > without taking it to bits. > > Pete > Classic #109 Rotax 912UL > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton > Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality > > > The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully > not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident. > But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems, > especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a > blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to > yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb > out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a > blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline > filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of > inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa. > > Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way > smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage > due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a > hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover > guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran > on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332 > controller. > > Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l > changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date > these have proven extremely reliable (100%). > > In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel > lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change, > the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw > fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy > Draper about the mod. > > Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC > code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering. > > If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related > (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action > which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters. > A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version. > > > I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the > glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft > operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use > of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information > such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial > blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated > in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is > also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me. > John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net > > John Wighton > Chief of Stress > Pilatus Aircraft > > -------- > John Wighton > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, > and is believed to be clean. > > > browse > Un/Subscription, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > Forums! > List Admin. > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:07 PM PST US From: Steve Eberhart Subject: Europa-List: EAA 21 Club First Saturday Fly-Ins at KEHR, Henderson, KY We will be preparing Hamburgers, Brats and NATHANS FAMOUS Hot Dogs for all that fly in. Just as New York's 21 Club has become known as the HAPPENING PLACE to be and be seen, EAA 21 Club is the place to be on the first Saturday of each month. When: September 7, October 5 10:00 AM till 2:00 PM Central time. Where: Henderson Kentucky City-County Airport (KEHR) If KEHR is VFR then we will be cooking the best Gourmet Burgers, Brats and Dogs this side of Sporty's. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:46 PM PST US From: bill Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitot Static - help needed. Dave, I lost mine also. Just turned up a new tip out of aluminium, drilled the holes copying the size from another Europa , locktited it in and it is working well. Cheers ZK CHV 914 mono Airmaster 1100 hrs Sue and Bill Sisley On 2/09/2013 9:25 a.m., Dave Disney wrote: > > Just after take off from the LAA rally today (Sunday) I noticed that the ASI wasn't working (I know - how come I didn't notice it on the take off run, truth is I'm still new to the aircraft and was concentrating on keeping straight in the cross wind when it leapt off the ground). I flew on home and managed to land the aircraft using GPS ground speed. > > It seems that I may have broken off the black plastic static head which is now missing. > > Questions are :- > > Where can I get a new one from? > > Is the pitot static head a standard type item? > > I see that Light Aero Spares have a similar looking unit in their catalog item 15144 shown here http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=V02FX7LLH is this the one fitted? > > Is it possible to get a new plastic bit or do I need to get a whole new unit from Europa? > > Does anyone know if there is a metal alternative to the plastic bit available? > > Sorry there are so many questions, please be patient with a newbee. > > Dave Disney > G-RJWX > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407873#407873 > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:35 PM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: FW: Europa-List: Fuel filters.............( FURTHER SUGGEST>>>>>>>>> Hi! Guys, Further to my message below I should also tell you that I also do an annual wipe out through the large oval hole in the middle of the tank top which contains the fuel level sender where I can get my arm through to wipe both sides of the tank bottoms. Sorry I omitted this basic detail. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG --> Hi! Raimo/all You make an interesting statement with regards to switching to the reserve tank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I think you should remember that on a much used aircraft the filling system always delivers "the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the best will in the world it is likely to always store water contamination in a greater proportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect that the reserve switch will always be your salvation! The water drain valves need to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard glass Europa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair gascolator filters one for each saddle tank side. After an overnight stay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water from the reserve drain valve which I believe went into the tank through the locking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain . This incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't think it was from their refuel facility but who knows? Best regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total airframe hours in excess of 1000. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: 01 September 2013 19:03 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters Carl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic, I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard warnings!). I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before first flight. Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power during cruise and my Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over mountaineous forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We looked each others and I elected to switch electric pump on AND changed to reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel system - there is always a clean filter waiting!). That was an autonomious reflex only. Rotax fired up immediately. Jyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction or after a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense. He also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had had a habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to somewhere. He had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all succesful and all because of service failure or service mistake. That has happened during his career say 50 years. My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles looking gold but they were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes. My guess was they (those particles) were "glued" to the tank inside surfaces by static forces. That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by flight it seemed to be cleaner and cleaner. Today I check my filters say after every 10 hours - always clean. When refueling I have only two alternatives: 1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield. Systems are aircraft quality, classified and certified, filtered and water-isolated. 2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w as good brand as possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnels debris /water isolator. Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any more fuel problems. I never clean my filters. I change them for new ones once a year (after 50-100 hrs service). I do not use those original puzzle filters w several parts and glass tube. One was broken during towing action and one was broken by itself in the hangar. I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - one piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way - cheap - unbreakable. Sold? How many you want? Cheers, Raimo Toivio FINLAND OH-XRT -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Carl Pattinson Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters Pattinson" Hi All, I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before assuming everything is clean. If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps). In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular issue. Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator setup instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday and they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the setup is that any large lumps of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very little muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron screen). We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of a clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered. For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be dropped down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation. Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage. Carl Pattinson G-LABS -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08 Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters Hi John I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the first few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning every 5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours the filter now need a clean about every 50 hours. My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all that is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. Cleaning is very easy you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the glass. I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect without taking it to bits. Pete Classic #109 Rotax 912UL -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident. But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems, especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa. Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332 controller. Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date these have proven extremely reliable (100%). In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change, the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy Draper about the mod. Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering. If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters. A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version. I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me. John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net John Wighton Chief of Stress Pilatus Aircraft -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:15 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Europa-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Europa-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Europa-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Europa-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Europa-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information. The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed. You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request. The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post until you receive the second conformation email message. ***************************** *** How to Post a Message *** ***************************** Send an email message to: europa-list@matronics.com Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed to the List. ***************************************************** *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post *** ***************************************************** When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor. If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that gets posted to the Lists. Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: smith@machine.domain.com smith@domain.com Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to the List. ************************************** *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** ************************************** Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the content of enclosures. These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "europa-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Europa-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Europa-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/europa-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Europa-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Europa-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Europa-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Europa-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Europa-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Europa-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Europa-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Europa-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Europa-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Europa-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Europa ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Europa-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Europa-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:24 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Europa-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Europa-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Europa-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Europa-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitot Static - help needed. From: Carl Pattinson Hi Dave, If you contact me off list, I may be able to help (ie: make up a new piece). Worth speaking to Europa first in case they carry spares though in my experience they dont seem to have much in stock. LAS are pretty good though and if these are the same will probably be your best bet. My Europa is one of the very early ones so im not familiar with this particular pitot static head. Carl Pattinson - G-LABS 07768 473222 Sent from my ASUS Pad Dave Disney wrote: > >Just after take off from the LAA rally today (Sunday) I noticed that the ASI wasn't working (I know - how come I didn't notice it on the take off run, truth is I'm still new to the aircraft and was concentrating on keeping straight in the cross wind when it leapt off the ground). I flew on home and managed to land the aircraft using GPS ground speed. > >It seems that I may have broken off the black plastic static head which is now missing. > >Questions are :- > >Where can I get a new one from? > >Is the pitot static head a standard type item? > >I see that Light Aero Spares have a similar looking unit in their catalog item 15144 shown here http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=V02FX7LLH is this the one fitted? > >Is it possible to get a new plastic bit or do I need to get a whole new unit from Europa? > >Does anyone know if there is a metal alternative to the plastic bit available? > >Sorry there are so many questions, please be patient with a newbee. > >Dave Disney >G-RJWX > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407873#407873 > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Powerflarm From: PITT STEVEN Graeme, thanks for the feedback and as I was rushing around between several stands I did not know who had turned up or not, so good idea for the future .. Steve Pitt Chairman, Europa Club On Sunday, 1 September 2013, graeme bird wrote: script:;> > > > > I ordered the Powerflarm core Sat at the LAA rally UK from LX avionics > (=A3999 inc). Seems its gaining momentum; RAF have ordered it for their > aircadet trainers as well and a big take up of FLARM at Dunstable near me .. > I am not sure whether to get a stand alone display or to rely on Sky demo n > which means a blue tooth link and a new nexus7 or phone (bluetooth seems a > bit excessive for where a few inches of serial cable would do). > The stand alone displays look a bit micro to me? Any comments? > Is the audio license worth having, I would guess so? > > BTW great to see so many Europas and club members at the show. > > Would it be a good idea to have a sign in list at the tent so one could > see who has arrived been? > For me its always interesting to see the faces of the people from the > forum. > > -------- > Graeme Bird > G-UMPY > Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W > Newby: 75 hours 18 months > g(at)gdbmk.co.uk > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407870#407870 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.