Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:23 AM - Re: Starter problems (Remi Guerner)
2. 12:52 AM - Re: Pitot Static - help needed. (Peter Jeffers)
3. 01:11 AM - Re: Fuel filters (Raimo Toivio)
4. 01:29 AM - Re: Fuel filters (Frans Veldman)
5. 01:38 AM - Re: Fuel filters (Raimo Toivio)
6. 01:41 AM - Re: Fuel filters (Raimo Toivio)
7. 01:49 AM - Re: Fuel filters (Raimo Toivio)
8. 02:28 AM - Re: Fuel filters (Bob Harrison)
9. 03:14 AM - Re: Pitot Static - help needed. (Dave Disney)
10. 03:42 AM - Re: Pitot Static - help needed. (richard)
11. 05:35 AM - Europas - as far as the eye can see! (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk)
12. 05:39 AM - Re: Fuel funnel for Mogas (Christoph Both)
13. 06:00 AM - Re: Fuel funnel for Mogas (Raimo Toivio)
14. 06:23 AM - Texel coming up this weekend (goff)
15. 06:35 AM - Re: Fuel funnel for Mogas (Carl Pattinson)
16. 06:40 AM - Re: Texel coming up this weekend (Roland)
17. 07:06 AM - Re: Europas - as far as the eye can see! (Fred Klein)
18. 07:06 AM - Re: Fuel funnel for Mogas (Max Cointe (Free))
19. 08:00 AM - Re: Europas - as far as the eye can see! (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk)
20. 08:20 AM - Fuel filters (Gary Leinberger)
21. 10:59 AM - Prop balancing (Frank Mycroft)
22. 02:55 PM - Re: Prop balancing (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
23. 08:38 PM - Spar socket hole enlargement (Andrew Sarangan)
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Subject: | Re: Starter problems |
Hi Paul,
Yes I had a problem with the starter relay on two occasions:
Once I had a click as you described. With another pilot in the cockpit I managed
to short circuit the secondary coil of the relay to activate the starter so
that I can go back home. Afterwards I fitted a new relay. I tested the old one
on the bench and found it to be working properly, so I do not know the real cause
of the problem.
The other issue was just the opposite: the relay became stuck and I had not identified
the problem before take off, so I flew one half hour with the starter
running. Of course I cooked the starter motor. I have since installed a starter
engaged warning light.
Hope that helps
Regards
Remi
F-PGKL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407901#407901
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Subject: | Pitot Static - help needed. |
Hi Dave,
At least in the past I have not had any problem getting these plastic static
port ends from Europa Aviation.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Pattinson
Sent: 02 September 2013 07:25
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitot Static - help needed.
<carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Hi Dave,
If you contact me off list, I may be able to help (ie: make up a new piece).
Worth speaking to Europa first in case they carry spares though in my
experience they dont seem to have much in stock. LAS are pretty good though
and if these are the same will probably be your best bet.
My Europa is one of the very early ones so im not familiar with this
particular pitot static head.
Carl Pattinson - G-LABS
07768 473222
Sent from my ASUS Pad
Dave Disney <davedisney@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Just after take off from the LAA rally today (Sunday) I noticed that the
ASI wasn't working (I know - how come I didn't notice it on the take off
run, truth is I'm still new to the aircraft and was concentrating on keeping
straight in the cross wind when it leapt off the ground). I flew on home and
managed to land the aircraft using GPS ground speed.
>
>It seems that I may have broken off the black plastic static head which is
now missing.
>
>Questions are :-
>
>Where can I get a new one from?
>
>Is the pitot static head a standard type item?
>
>I see that Light Aero Spares have a similar looking unit in their catalog
item 15144 shown here
http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=V02FX7LLH is this the one
fitted?
>
>Is it possible to get a new plastic bit or do I need to get a whole new
unit from Europa?
>
>Does anyone know if there is a metal alternative to the plastic bit
available?
>
>Sorry there are so many questions, please be patient with a newbee.
>
>Dave Disney
>G-RJWX
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407873#407873
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Fuel filters |
Dear Bob /all,
please try to understand that was MY only option!
Otherwise - forced landing to the hard rocky
forest including hungry wolves and beers.
It is better you believe it was good to have two
parallel filters - that is like to have two radios
or two generators...that 2nd filter really made
our day.
Also, I was proud about myself, that my reaction
was one and only correct way to proceed in that
situation!
It was not very risky to get new shit to the 2nd
filter because
- loose shit was obvious already in the 1st filter
and
- I fired up the engine with moderate power only.
More:
- In my pre-flight list there is a task "change
for res/2nd filter for 3 minutes to test it"
and
- Water-drain both sides (never seen water).
and
- when out and raining I always cover a fuel cap
because I do not trust it.
Better to believe there are safe points but also
not-so-safe-points in our Europa as well as any
planes.
Dual fuel systems is great and one of the in-build
safe systems.
Notice:
- Adding one-way-valve to the fuel return line
(idea by Frans Veldman) is a great must (and
mandatory at least for me).
Are you coming to EHTX next weekend?
Cheers, Raimo
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: Bob Harrison
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 11:29 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters
<ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Raimo/all
You make an interesting statement with regards to
switching to the reserve
tank and got a clean filter to start up with ,
however I think you should
remember that on a much used aircraft the filling
system always delivers
"the new shit " into the reserve side of the
saddle tank and with the best
will in the world it is likely to always store
water contamination in a
greater proportion than that on the main delivery
side, so don't expect that
the reserve switch will always be your salvation!
The water drain valves
need to be often tested on both sides . I did away
with the standard glass
Europa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair
gascolator filters one for each
saddle tank side.
After an overnight stay in pouring rain I took
about half a litre of water
from the reserve drain valve which I believe went
into the tank through the
locking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire
filler cap when in rain .
This incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't think
it was from their refuel
facility but who knows?
Best regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total
airframe hours in excess of
1000.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Raimo Toivio
Sent: 01 September 2013 19:03
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters
<raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
Carl and the rest of you who are interested in
this topic,
I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful
several times (I had heard
warnings!). I pumped through the system at least
300 liters of fuel before
first flight.
Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full
power during cruise and my
Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went
down. Over mountaineous
forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous
test pilot (google!). We
looked each others and I elected to switch
electric pump on AND changed to
reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also -
how genious is that fuel
system - there is always a clean filter waiting!).
That was an autonomious
reflex only.
Rotax fired up immediately.
Jyrki said later please never apply full power
with a new construction or
after a major service if you are not above
airfield! That makes sense.
He also said he is alive because after every
service or repair he had had a
habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field
before heading to somewhere.
He had completed 9 forced landings and all over
the runways, all succesful
and all because of service failure or service
mistake.
That has happened during his career say 50 years.
My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally
blocked by small particles
looking gold but they were identified to be shit
from lay-upp processes.
My guess was they (those particles) were "glued"
to the tank inside surfaces by static forces.
That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY
flight. Flight by flight it
seemed to be cleaner and cleaner.
Today I check my filters say after every 10
hours - always clean.
When refueling I have only two alternatives:
1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield.
Systems are aircraft quality, classified and
certified, filtered and
water-isolated.
2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol
stations w as good brand as
possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc
Funnels debris /water
isolator.
Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any
more fuel problems.
I never clean my filters. I change them for new
ones once a year (after
50-100 hrs service).
I do not use those original puzzle filters w
several parts and glass tube.
One was broken during towing action and one was
broken by itself in the
hangar.
I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway
models - transparent - one
piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to
assemble them wrong way -
cheap - unbreakable.
Sold? How many you want?
Cheers,
Raimo Toivio
FINLAND
OH-XRT
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: Carl Pattinson
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters
Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Hi All,
I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked
filters after the initial
shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out
tanks after build but it's
definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel
through the system before
assuming everything is clean.
If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an
issue that should be
addressed first rather instead of relying on the
fuel filters to do their
job. I accept that some of us have less control
over what we put in our
tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel
at the airfield pumps).
In the early days I recall that clogged filters
were an issue for some
builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by
large amounts of crud
which should never have been there in the first
place - I do not believe
that changing the size of the filter mesh would
address this particular
issue.
Personally I never liked the factory system and
opted for a gascolator setup
instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the
cheap kit builders one
available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced
one at the LAA yesterday and
they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the
setup is that any large lumps
of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of
the gascolator bowl and
will be drained off when you do your do your daily
fuel checks - very little
muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the
bowl (this is a 120 micron
screen).
We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans
which we insist on
filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have
never found any signs of a
clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel
cans generate their own
debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to
flake off and if not
filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered.
For those who have to rely on airfield based
supplies if it should be
possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon
mesh) which could be dropped
down the fuel filler opening to ensure the
cleanliness of any external
sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent
installation.
Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge
which would give a visual
warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Pete Lawless
Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
<pete@lawless.info>
Hi John
I have the original glass filters and am very
happy with them. In the first
few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and
mine needed cleaning every
5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one
occasion at about 10 hours
caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then
less frequently cleaning
until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At
550 hours the filter now
need a clean about every 50 hours.
My filters are installed under the seats protected
by a Perspex cover, as
per the original Classic layout. I inspect them
BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The
beauty of the glass container is that you can see
what is going on, all that
is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look.
Cleaning is very easy
you just change the filter screen for a new one
and wipe the inside of the
glass.
I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit
I could not inspect
without taking it to bits.
Pete
Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of John Wighton
Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of
father and daughter fatality
<john@wighton.net>
The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft
are shocking and hopefully
not an indicator of the condition she was in at
the time of the accident.
But l have to say that if the level of neglect
extended to the systems,
especially the fuel system, the cause of the
incident may easily have been a
blocked filter. According to a close friend of
David, whom l spoke to
yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at
full power in the climb
out after refuelling. If so the classic case of
power starvation due to a
blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that
the photos show the inline
filter used is the standard glass tube variety.
Blockage of this type of
inline filter has caused many incidents and at
least one written off Europa.
Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron
sized mesh. This is way
smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated
by Rotax. I had a stoppage
due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few
years ago, this led to a
hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed
(thanks for the fire cover
guys). The filter was partially blocked with
translucent material. It ran
on the ground but would not feed fuel to the
goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332
controller.
Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state
of fuel feed anxiety l
changed them for Andair filters which have a 60
micron filter size. To date
these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a
version for 1/4in bore fuel
lines could be made. He said it was quite easy,
just a CNC program change,
the filters would then have a push-on nipple type
end and not require screw
fit unions (as in my installation). Some
discussion occurred with Andy
Draper about the mod.
Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got
around to adapting the CNC
code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA
Engineering.
If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on
GBXS was filter related
(this is speculative but informed on my part) we
should support some action
which will lead to changes in the use of these
standard glass tube filters.
A possibility for Europas could be a new filter,
perhaps the Andair version.
I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the
continued use of the
glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa
flyer, or other aircraft
operator with the same filter type, can supply
information regarding the use
of these filters it may assist in deciding which
way to go. Information
such as frequency of inspection, frequency of
cleaning, stoppage or partial
blockage info, leaks, other issues will br
gratefully received and treated
in confidence. Likewise any info showing
satisfactory in service history is
also welcome. Please post info or email direct to
me.
John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
John Wighton
Chief of Stress
Pilatus Aircraft
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
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Subject: | Re: Fuel filters |
I'm not to fond about the hungry wolves but that beer is included is a big plus!
Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
>
>Otherwise - forced landing to the hard rocky
>forest including hungry wolves and beers.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On
>Behalf Of Pete Lawless
>Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
>
><pete@lawless.info>
>
>Hi John
>
>I have the original glass filters and am very
>happy with them. In the first
>few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and
>mine needed cleaning every
>5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one
>occasion at about 10 hours
>caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then
>less frequently cleaning
>until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At
>550 hours the filter now
>need a clean about every 50 hours.
>
>My filters are installed under the seats protected
>by a Perspex cover, as
>per the original Classic layout. I inspect them
>BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The
>beauty of the glass container is that you can see
>what is going on, all that
>is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look.
>Cleaning is very easy
>you just change the filter screen for a new one
>and wipe the inside of the
>glass.
>
>I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit
>I could not inspect
>without taking it to bits.
>
>Pete
>Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On
>Behalf Of John Wighton
>Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of
>father and daughter fatality
>
><john@wighton.net>
>
>The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft
>are shocking and hopefully
>not an indicator of the condition she was in at
>the time of the accident.
>But l have to say that if the level of neglect
>extended to the systems,
>especially the fuel system, the cause of the
>incident may easily have been a
>blocked filter. According to a close friend of
>David, whom l spoke to
>yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at
>full power in the climb
>out after refuelling. If so the classic case of
>power starvation due to a
>blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that
>the photos show the inline
>filter used is the standard glass tube variety.
>Blockage of this type of
>inline filter has caused many incidents and at
>least one written off Europa.
>
>Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron
>sized mesh. This is way
>smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated
>by Rotax. I had a stoppage
>due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few
>years ago, this led to a
>hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed
>(thanks for the fire cover
>guys). The filter was partially blocked with
>translucent material. It ran
>on the ground but would not feed fuel to the
>goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332
>controller.
>
>Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state
>of fuel feed anxiety l
>changed them for Andair filters which have a 60
>micron filter size. To date
>these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
>
>In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a
>version for 1/4in bore fuel
>lines could be made. He said it was quite easy,
>just a CNC program change,
>the filters would then have a push-on nipple type
>end and not require screw
>fit unions (as in my installation). Some
>discussion occurred with Andy
>Draper about the mod.
>
>Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got
>around to adapting the CNC
>code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA
>Engineering.
>
>If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on
>GBXS was filter related
>(this is speculative but informed on my part) we
>should support some action
>which will lead to changes in the use of these
>standard glass tube filters.
>A possibility for Europas could be a new filter,
>perhaps the Andair version.
>
>
>I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the
>continued use of the
>glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa
>flyer, or other aircraft
>operator with the same filter type, can supply
>information regarding the use
>of these filters it may assist in deciding which
>way to go. Information
>such as frequency of inspection, frequency of
>cleaning, stoppage or partial
>blockage info, leaks, other issues will br
>gratefully received and treated
>in confidence. Likewise any info showing
>satisfactory in service history is
>also welcome. Please post info or email direct to
>me.
>John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
>
>John Wighton
>Chief of Stress
>Pilatus Aircraft
>
>--------
>John Wighton
>Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
>
>
>--
>This message has been scanned for viruses and
>dangerous content by Houxou,
>and is believed to be clean.
>
>
>browse
>Un/Subscription,
>FAQ,
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>Forums!
>List Admin.
>
>
>browse
>Un/Subscription,
>FAQ,
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>Forums!
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>
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Subject: | Re: Fuel filters |
Anrew,
you made a good question:
Yes - that was made through BOTH filters (150
liters /filter) and they remain totally clean.
Main reason they were clean was obviously that I
run fuel only by electric fuel pump ie. engine was
not running.
My purpose was to calibrate fuel gauge (electric
and visual), check the system and to clean it.
As we know, I did not succeeded. But I did during
that flight! After that - filters have been
*almost* clean after every change period one year
(=50-100 hrs).
Notice:
I had flown before that case 5 hours. I had used
more or less full power at least ten times x 5
minutes during every take-off. That main filter
was still clean from flight to flight until that
almost destiny flight. Thats a bit scary, isnt
it?
Why:
As you wrote, vibration, static effects and also
time, fuel itself, temperature changes etc affects
to the tank shit and its releasing time. Maybe
also full moon periods can do that. I am sure
Frans can imagine a lot more reasons for that.
How to avoid:
- clean more carefully.
- use your time.
- use different methods (ionizing could be that).
- check the tank by using boroscope with light.
- before first flight complete a lot full power
engine tests.
- when flying a test period say first 5 hours do
that only over your landing area.
- when using full power during your test phase say
first 10 hours do that only over your landing
area.
BTW - checked that lab report - that gold coloured
"material" which suddenly blocked my filter during
that flight - shit in the filter - was epoxbased.
Maybe it was somehow glued to the tank inside and
finally separated.
Cheers, Raimo
OH-XRT
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: Andrew Sarangan
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 4:32 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters
<asarangan@gmail.com>
Raimo
When you say "I pumped through the system at least
300 liters of fuel
before first flight", was that done through the
fuel filter? If yes, I
am curious why those particles were released
during flight and not
during the flush. Could ie be vibration, or some
other antistatic
effect during flight. May be an ionizing airgun
can be used to release
stuck particles?
On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Raimo Toivio
<raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
> Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
>
> Carl and the rest of you who are interested in
> this topic,
>
> I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful
> several times (I had heard
> warnings!). I pumped through the system at least
> 300 liters of fuel before
> first flight.
>
> Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed
> full power during cruise and my
> Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure
> went down. Over mountaineous
> forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a
> famous test pilot (google!). We
> looked each others and I elected to switch
> electric pump on AND changed to
> reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also -
> how genious is that fuel
> system - there is always a clean filter
> waiting!). That was an autonomious
> reflex only. Rotax fired up immediately.
>
> Jyrki said later please never apply full power
> with a new construction or
> after a major service if you are not above
> airfield! That makes sense. He
> also said he is alive because after every
> service or repair he had had a
> habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field
> before heading to somewhere.
> He had completed 9 forced landings and all over
> the runways, all succesful
> and all because of service failure or service
> mistake. That has happened
> during his career say 50 years.
>
> My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was
> totally blocked by small particles
> looking gold but they were identified to be shit
> from lay-upp processes. My
> guess was they (those particles) were "glued" to
> the tank inside surfaces by
> static forces.
>
> That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY
> flight. Flight by flight it
> seemed to be cleaner and cleaner.
>
> Today I check my filters say after every 10
> hours - always clean.
>
> When refueling I have only two alternatives:
>
> 1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield.
> Systems are aircraft
> quality, classified and certified, filtered and
> water-isolated.
>
> 2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol
> stations w as good brand as
> possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc
> Funnels debris /water
> isolator.
>
> Since that scary action 2007, I have had never
> any more fuel problems.
>
> I never clean my filters. I change them for new
> ones once a year (after
> 50-100 hrs service).
>
> I do not use those original puzzle filters w
> several parts and glass tube.
>
> One was broken during towing action and one was
> broken by itself in the
> hangar.
>
> I use original Rotax filters - they are
> throwaway models - transparent - one
> piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to
> assemble them wrong way -
> cheap - unbreakable.
>
> Sold? How many you want?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Raimo Toivio
> FINLAND
> OH-XRT
>
>
> -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Carl
> Pattinson
> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters
>
>
> Pattinson"
> <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked
> filters after the initial
> shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out
> tanks after build but it's
> definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel
> through the system before
> assuming everything is clean.
>
> If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an
> issue that should be
> addressed first rather instead of relying on the
> fuel filters to do their
> job. I accept that some of us have less control
> over what we put in our
> tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing
> fuel at the airfield pumps).
>
> In the early days I recall that clogged filters
> were an issue for some
> builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed
> by large amounts of crud
> which should never have been there in the first
> place - I do not believe
> that changing the size of the filter mesh would
> address this particular
> issue.
>
> Personally I never liked the factory system and
> opted for a gascolator setup
> instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the
> cheap kit builders one
> available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced
> one at the LAA yesterday and
> they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the
> setup is that any large lumps
> of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom
> of the gascolator bowl and
> will be drained off when you do your do your
> daily fuel checks - very little
> muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the
> bowl (this is a 120 micron
> screen).
>
> We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from
> cans which we insist on
> filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have
> never found any signs of a
> clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal
> fuel cans generate their own
> debris as the internal paint on the cans tends
> to flake off and if not
> filtered would cause problems if not pre
> filtered.
>
> For those who have to rely on airfield based
> supplies if it should be
> possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon
> mesh) which could be dropped
> down the fuel filler opening to ensure the
> cleanliness of any external
> sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent
> installation.
>
> Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge
> which would give a visual
> warning of low pressure due to a filter
> blockage.
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G-LABS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
> Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
>
> Lawless" <pete@lawless.info>
>
> Hi John
>
> I have the original glass filters and am very
> happy with them. In the first
> few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked
> and mine needed cleaning every
> 5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one
> occasion at about 10 hours
> caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then
> less frequently cleaning
> until the tank settled down at about 100 hours.
> At 550 hours the filter now
> need a clean about every 50 hours.
>
> My filters are installed under the seats
> protected by a Perspex cover, as
> per the original Classic layout. I inspect them
> BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The
> beauty of the glass container is that you can
> see what is going on, all that
> is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and
> look. Cleaning is very easy
> you just change the filter screen for a new one
> and wipe the inside of the
> glass.
>
> I would be very reluctant to install a filter
> unit I could not inspect
> without taking it to bits.
>
> Pete
> Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of John Wighton
> Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of
> father and daughter fatality
>
> Wighton" <john@wighton.net>
>
> The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft
> are shocking and hopefully
> not an indicator of the condition she was in at
> the time of the accident.
> But l have to say that if the level of neglect
> extended to the systems,
> especially the fuel system, the cause of the
> incident may easily have been a
> blocked filter. According to a close friend of
> David, whom l spoke to
> yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred
> at full power in the climb
> out after refuelling. If so the classic case of
> power starvation due to a
> blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that
> the photos show the inline
> filter used is the standard glass tube variety.
> Blockage of this type of
> inline filter has caused many incidents and at
> least one written off Europa.
>
> Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron
> sized mesh. This is way
> smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated
> by Rotax. I had a stoppage
> due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a
> few years ago, this led to a
> hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed
> (thanks for the fire cover
> guys). The filter was partially blocked with
> translucent material. It ran
> on the ground but would not feed fuel to the
> goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332
> controller.
>
> Having thereafter spent a year in a constant
> state of fuel feed anxiety l
> changed them for Andair filters which have a 60
> micron filter size. To date
> these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
>
> In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a
> version for 1/4in bore fuel
> lines could be made. He said it was quite easy,
> just a CNC program change,
> the filters would then have a push-on nipple
> type end and not require screw
> fit unions (as in my installation). Some
> discussion occurred with Andy
> Draper about the mod.
>
> Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got
> around to adapting the CNC
> code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA
> Engineering.
>
> If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage
> on GBXS was filter related
> (this is speculative but informed on my part) we
> should support some action
> which will lead to changes in the use of these
> standard glass tube filters.
> A possibility for Europas could be a new filter,
> perhaps the Andair version.
>
>
> I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over
> the continued use of the
> glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa
> flyer, or other aircraft
> operator with the same filter type, can supply
> information regarding the use
> of these filters it may assist in deciding which
> way to go. Information
> such as frequency of inspection, frequency of
> cleaning, stoppage or partial
> blockage info, leaks, other issues will br
> gratefully received and treated
> in confidence. Likewise any info showing
> satisfactory in service history is
> also welcome. Please post info or email direct
> to me.
> John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
>
> John Wighton
> Chief of Stress
> Pilatus Aircraft
>
> --------
> John Wighton
> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by Houxou,
> and is believed to be clean.
>
>
> browse
> Un/Subscription,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> Forums!
> List Admin.
>
>
browse
Un/Subscription,
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|
Subject: | Re: Fuel filters |
OK Frans, that beer* is still waiting for you
here - I will handle those bears then (maybe eat)!
* Aviators Beer
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: Frans Veldman
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters
<frans@privatepilots.nl>
I'm not to fond about the hungry wolves but that
beer is included is a big plus!
Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
><raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
>
>Otherwise - forced landing to the hard rocky
>forest including hungry wolves and beers.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]
>On
>Behalf Of Pete Lawless
>Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
>
><pete@lawless.info>
>
>Hi John
>
>I have the original glass filters and am very
>happy with them. In the first
>few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and
>mine needed cleaning every
>5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one
>occasion at about 10 hours
>caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then
>less frequently cleaning
>until the tank settled down at about 100 hours.
>At
>550 hours the filter now
>need a clean about every 50 hours.
>
>My filters are installed under the seats
>protected
>by a Perspex cover, as
>per the original Classic layout. I inspect them
>BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The
>beauty of the glass container is that you can see
>what is going on, all that
>is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and
>look.
>Cleaning is very easy
>you just change the filter screen for a new one
>and wipe the inside of the
>glass.
>
>I would be very reluctant to install a filter
>unit
>I could not inspect
>without taking it to bits.
>
>Pete
>Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]
>On
>Behalf Of John Wighton
>Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of
>father and daughter fatality
>
><john@wighton.net>
>
>The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft
>are shocking and hopefully
>not an indicator of the condition she was in at
>the time of the accident.
>But l have to say that if the level of neglect
>extended to the systems,
>especially the fuel system, the cause of the
>incident may easily have been a
>blocked filter. According to a close friend of
>David, whom l spoke to
>yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at
>full power in the climb
>out after refuelling. If so the classic case of
>power starvation due to a
>blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that
>the photos show the inline
>filter used is the standard glass tube variety.
>Blockage of this type of
>inline filter has caused many incidents and at
>least one written off Europa.
>
>Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron
>sized mesh. This is way
>smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated
>by Rotax. I had a stoppage
>due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few
>years ago, this led to a
>hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed
>(thanks for the fire cover
>guys). The filter was partially blocked with
>translucent material. It ran
>on the ground but would not feed fuel to the
>goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332
>controller.
>
>Having thereafter spent a year in a constant
>state
>of fuel feed anxiety l
>changed them for Andair filters which have a 60
>micron filter size. To date
>these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
>
>In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a
>version for 1/4in bore fuel
>lines could be made. He said it was quite easy,
>just a CNC program change,
>the filters would then have a push-on nipple type
>end and not require screw
>fit unions (as in my installation). Some
>discussion occurred with Andy
>Draper about the mod.
>
>Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got
>around to adapting the CNC
>code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA
>Engineering.
>
>If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on
>GBXS was filter related
>(this is speculative but informed on my part) we
>should support some action
>which will lead to changes in the use of these
>standard glass tube filters.
>A possibility for Europas could be a new filter,
>perhaps the Andair version.
>
>
>I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over
>the
>continued use of the
>glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa
>flyer, or other aircraft
>operator with the same filter type, can supply
>information regarding the use
>of these filters it may assist in deciding which
>way to go. Information
>such as frequency of inspection, frequency of
>cleaning, stoppage or partial
>blockage info, leaks, other issues will br
>gratefully received and treated
>in confidence. Likewise any info showing
>satisfactory in service history is
>also welcome. Please post info or email direct to
>me.
>John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
>
>John Wighton
>Chief of Stress
>Pilatus Aircraft
>
>--------
>John Wighton
>Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
>
>
>--
>This message has been scanned for viruses and
>dangerous content by Houxou,
>and is believed to be clean.
>
>
>browse
>Un/Subscription,
>FAQ,
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>Forums!
>List Admin.
>
>
>browse
>Un/Subscription,
>FAQ,
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>Forums!
>List Admin.
>
>
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please
excuse my brevity.
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Message 7
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|
Subject: | Re: Fuel filters |
It worries me when I hear tales of blocked filters as we have never
experienced this. Im tempted to re design our system and introduce a
dual system but then with over 10 years of trouble free flying its
probably best to leave well alone.
One recommendation I would strongly make is to ensure that all fuel
going into the tank is filtered. I believe it will eliminate 90% of the
problem.
Carl, if I were you, I would do same. Your method is proofed after 10
years. Re-designing is always a new risk.
Refueling quality is essential anyway as you wrote.
You take care of your plane a lot better than me: I have not cleaned my
tank after it=C2=B4s completion 2007. I have only trusted my refueling
manners and filters (which are always *almost* clean).
One more thing:
- use only your very own and known canisters.
- in the new canister there could be what so ever like mices or
gigarrettes (from China).
- trust only yourself when refueling.
Cheers, Raimo
OH-XRT
From: Carl Pattinson
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters
Hi all,
Maybe I am being smug or just plain naive but we have never had a
blockage/ stoppage with our fuel system. I believe this is almost
entirely due to us opting for a gascolator as opposed to the standard
filter system.
As per my previous post it is a cheapo homebuild gascolator unit with a
very fine mesh filter (unfortunately 140 micron is the only size
available).
We do get the odd bit of muck (ie: small particles) but these settle in
the bottom of the gascolator bowl and get drained out on the preflight
inspection. One one occasion there was about a tablespoon of water after
the ac had been left standing in the rain without covering the filler
cap.
The gascolator is dismantled and filter gauze changed every 6 months
though little debris is found at these inspections. Fuel tank is fully
drained and flushed once a year with tail raised as high as possible.
It worries me when I hear tales of blocked filters as we have never
experienced this. Im tempted to re design our system and introduce a
dual system but then with over 10 years of trouble free flying its
probably best to leave well alone.
One recommendation I would strongly make is to ensure that all fuel
going into the tank is filtered. I believe it will eliminate 90% of the
problem.
Carl Pattinson - G-LABS.
Sent from my ASUS Pad
GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:
Bob
good to see you at the show.
I have seen water leak into the tank from overnight rain.
through the plastic fuel tank cap that many Europas have. Difficult to
adjust when
they get corroded and the hut rusts up. Also the size of the O ring is
imprtant.
Graham
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
From: Bob Harrison <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2013, 21:29
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters
<ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Raimo/all
You make an interesting statement with regards to switching to the
reserve
tank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I think you
should
remember that on a much used aircraft the filling system always delivers
"the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the
best
will in the world it is likely to always store water contamination in a
greater proportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect
that
the reserve switch will always be your salvation! The water drain
valves
need to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard
glass
Europa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair gascolator filters one for
each
saddle tank side.
After an overnight stay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of
water
from the reserve drain valve which I believe went into the tank through
the
locking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain
.
This incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't think it was from their
refuel
facility but who knows?
Best regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total airframe hours in excess
of
1000.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo
Toivio
Sent: 01 September 2013 19:03
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters
Carl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic,
I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard
warnings!). I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel
before
first flight.
Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power during cruise
and my
Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over
mountaineous
forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!).
We
looked each others and I elected to switch electric pump on AND changed
to
reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel
system - there is always a clean filter waiting!). That was an
autonomious
reflex only.
Rotax fired up immediately.
Jyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction
or
after a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense.
He also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had
had a
habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to
somewhere.
He had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all
succesful
and all because of service failure or service mistake.
That has happened during his career say 50 years.
My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally blocked by small
particles
looking gold but they were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes.
My guess was they (those particles) were "glued"
to the tank inside surfaces by static forces.
That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by flight
it
seemed to be cleaner and cleaner.
Today I check my filters say after every 10 hours - always clean.
When refueling I have only two alternatives:
1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield.
Systems are aircraft quality, classified and certified, filtered and
water-isolated.
2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w as good brand
as
possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnel=C2=B4s debris
/water
isolator.
Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any more fuel problems.
I never clean my filters. I change them for new ones once a year (after
50-100 hrs service).
I do not use those original puzzle filters w several parts and glass
tube.
One was broken during towing action and one was broken by itself in the
hangar.
I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent -
one
piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way
-
cheap - unbreakable.
Sold? How many you want?
Cheers,
Raimo Toivio
FINLAND
OH-XRT
-----Alkuper=C3=A4inen viesti-----
From: Carl Pattinson
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters
Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Hi All,
I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked
filters after the initial
shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out
tanks after build but it's
definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel
through the system before
assuming everything is clean.
If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an
issue that should be
addressed first rather instead of relying on the
fuel filters to do their
job. I accept that some of us have less control
over what we put in our
tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel
at the airfield pumps).
In the early days I recall that clogged filters
were an issue for some
builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by
large amounts of crud
which should never have been there in the first
place - I do not believe
that changing the size of the filter mesh would
address this particular
issue.
Personally I never liked the factory system and
opted for a gascolator setup
instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the
cheap kit builders one
available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced
one at the LAA yesterday and
they are selling for =C2=A360) . The beauty of the
setup is that any large lumps
of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of
the gascolator bowl and
will be drained off when you do your do your daily
fuel checks - very little
muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the
bowl (this is a 120 micron
screen).
We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans
which we insist on
filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have
never found any signs of a
clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel
cans generate their own
debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to
flake off and if not
filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered.
For those who have to rely on airfield based
supplies if it should be
possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon
mesh) which could be dropped
down the fuel filler opening to ensure the
cleanliness of any external
sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent
installation.
Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge
which would give a visual
warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Pete Lawless
Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
<pete@lawless.info>
Hi John
I have the original glass filters and am very
happy with them. In the first
few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and
mine needed cleaning every
5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one
occasion at about 10 hours
caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then
less frequently cleaning
until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At
550 hours the filter now
need a clean about every 50 hours.
My filters are installed under the seats protected
by a Perspex cover, as
per the original Classic layout. I inspect them
BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The
beauty of the glass container is that you can see
what is going on, all that
is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look.
Cleaning is very easy
you just change the filter screen for a new one
and wipe the inside of the
glass.
I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit
I could not inspect
without taking it to bits.
Pete
Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of John Wighton
Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of
father and daughter fatality
<john@wighton.net>
The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft
are shocking and hopefully
not an indicator of the condition she was in at
the time of the accident.
But l have to say that if the level of neglect
extended to the systems,
especially the fuel system, the cause of the
incident may easily have been a
blocked filter. According to a close friend of
David, whom l spoke to
yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at
full power in the climb
out after refuelling. If so the classic case of
power starvation due to a
blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that
the photos show the inline
filter used is the standard glass tube variety.
Blockage of this type of
inline filter has caused many incidents and at
least one written off Europa.
Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron
sized mesh. This is way
smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated
by Rotax. I had a stoppage
due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few
years ago, this led to a
hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed
(thanks for the fire cover
guys). The filter was partially blocked with
translucent material. It ran
on the ground but would not feed fuel to the
goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332
controller.
Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state
of fuel feed anxiety l
changed them for Andair filters which have a 60
micron filter size. To date
these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a
version for 1/4in bore fuel
lines could be made. He said it was quite easy,
just a CNC program change,
the filters would then have a push-on nipple type
end and not require screw
fit unions (as in my installation). Some
discussion occurred with Andy
Draper about the mod.
Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got
around to adapting the CNC
code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA
Engineering.
If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on
GBXS was filter related
(this is speculative but informed on my part) we
should support some action
which will lead to changes in the use of these
standard glass tube filters.
A possibility for Europas could be a new filter,
perhaps the Andair version.
I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the
continued use of the
glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa
flyer, or other aircraft
operator with the same filter type, can supply
information regarding the use
of these filters it may assist in deciding which
way to go. Information
such as frequency of inspection, frequency of
cleaning, stoppage or partial
blockage info, leaks, other issues will br
gratefully received and treated
in confidence. Likewise any info showing
satisfactory in service history is
also welcome. Please post info or email direct to
me.
John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
John Wighton
Chief of Stress
Pilatus Aircraft
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
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Hi! Raimo/all
I hope to be at Texel, except I have bad mag drop readout which I have to
"bottom out" and a new Arificial Gyro Horizon since LAA Rally to fit plus I
may have "date" with a Heathrow "arrival" which will take priority !
But hope so since it is the last for my season.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio
Sent: 02 September 2013 09:10
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters
Dear Bob /all,
please try to understand that was MY only option!
Otherwise - forced landing to the hard rocky forest including hungry wolves
and beers.
It is better you believe it was good to have two parallel filters - that is
like to have two radios or two generators...that 2nd filter really made our
day.
Also, I was proud about myself, that my reaction was one and only correct
way to proceed in that situation!
It was not very risky to get new shit to the 2nd filter because
- loose shit was obvious already in the 1st filter
and
- I fired up the engine with moderate power only.
More:
- In my pre-flight list there is a task "change for res/2nd filter for 3
minutes to test it"
and
- Water-drain both sides (never seen water).
and
- when out and raining I always cover a fuel cap because I do not trust it.
Better to believe there are safe points but also not-so-safe-points in our
Europa as well as any planes.
Dual fuel systems is great and one of the in-build safe systems.
Notice:
- Adding one-way-valve to the fuel return line (idea by Frans Veldman) is a
great must (and mandatory at least for me).
Are you coming to EHTX next weekend?
Cheers, Raimo
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: Bob Harrison
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 11:29 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters
<ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Raimo/all
You make an interesting statement with regards to switching to the reserve
tank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I think you should
remember that on a much used aircraft the filling system always delivers
"the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the best
will in the world it is likely to always store water contamination in a
greater proportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect that
the reserve switch will always be your salvation!
The water drain valves
need to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard glass
Europa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair gascolator filters one for each
saddle tank side.
After an overnight stay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water
from the reserve drain valve which I believe went into the tank through the
locking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain .
This incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't think it was from their refuel
facility but who knows?
Best regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total airframe hours in excess of
1000.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio
Sent: 01 September 2013 19:03
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters
<raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
Carl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic,
I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard
warnings!). I pumped through the system at least
300 liters of fuel before
first flight.
Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power during cruise and my
Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over mountaineous
forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We
looked each others and I elected to switch electric pump on AND changed to
reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel
system - there is always a clean filter waiting!).
That was an autonomious
reflex only.
Rotax fired up immediately.
Jyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction or
after a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense.
He also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had had a
habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to somewhere.
He had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all succesful
and all because of service failure or service mistake.
That has happened during his career say 50 years.
My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles
looking gold but they were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes.
My guess was they (those particles) were "glued"
to the tank inside surfaces by static forces.
That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by flight it
seemed to be cleaner and cleaner.
Today I check my filters say after every 10 hours - always clean.
When refueling I have only two alternatives:
1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield.
Systems are aircraft quality, classified and certified, filtered and
water-isolated.
2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w as good brand as
possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnels debris /water
isolator.
Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any more fuel problems.
I never clean my filters. I change them for new ones once a year (after
50-100 hrs service).
I do not use those original puzzle filters w several parts and glass tube.
One was broken during towing action and one was broken by itself in the
hangar.
I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - one
piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way -
cheap - unbreakable.
Sold? How many you want?
Cheers,
Raimo Toivio
FINLAND
OH-XRT
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: Carl Pattinson
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters
Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Hi All,
I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial
shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's
definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before
assuming everything is clean.
If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be
addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their
job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our
tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps).
In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some
builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud
which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe
that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular
issue.
Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator setup
instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one
available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday and
they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the setup is that any large lumps
of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and
will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very little
muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron
screen).
We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on
filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of a
clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own
debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not
filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered.
For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be
possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon
mesh) which could be dropped
down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external
sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation.
Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual
warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
<pete@lawless.info>
Hi John
I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the first
few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning every
5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours
caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning
until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At
550 hours the filter now
need a clean about every 50 hours.
My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as
per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The
beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all that
is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look.
Cleaning is very easy
you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the
glass.
I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect
without taking it to bits.
Pete
Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton
Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality
<john@wighton.net>
The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully
not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident.
But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems,
especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a
blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to
yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb
out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a
blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline
filter used is the standard glass tube variety.
Blockage of this type of
inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa.
Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way
smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage
due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a
hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover
guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran
on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332
controller.
Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l
changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date
these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel
lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change,
the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw
fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy
Draper about the mod.
Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC
code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering.
If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related
(this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action
which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters.
A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version.
I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the
glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft
operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use
of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information
such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial
blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated
in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is
also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me.
John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
John Wighton
Chief of Stress
Pilatus Aircraft
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Static - help needed. |
Thank you all for your useful help and suggestions.
I called the factory this morning and this is something that they carry as spares
in stock. The lovely Karen is putting a couple in a jiffy bag first class post
so hopefully I shouldn't be grounded for too long.
I've ordered two, one to fit and one to make a copy of in something a little more
robust.
Dave
Read this topic online here:
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Static - help needed. |
Hi Dave
I had the same problem last year whilst test flying with Andy Draper, we
over came the problem with a spare static plastic end piece given me by Ian
Rickard [Very pleased to see Ian and Irene at the Rally] anyway I have made
a jig and can run off an aluminium replacement for you if you want one. Do
they work? yes I broke the replacement that Ian gave me so I am flying with
my aluminium replacement .
Contact me on 01327 260045 or at rcollings@talktalk.net
Regards Richard
Europa XS Tri-gear G-CGZV
60 hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Disney
Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2013 10:25 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Pitot Static - help needed.
Just after take off from the LAA rally today (Sunday) I noticed that the ASI
wasn't working (I know - how come I didn't notice it on the take off run,
truth is I'm still new to the aircraft and was concentrating on keeping
straight in the cross wind when it leapt off the ground). I flew on home and
managed to land the aircraft using GPS ground speed.
It seems that I may have broken off the black plastic static head which is
now missing.
Questions are :-
Where can I get a new one from?
Is the pitot static head a standard type item?
I see that Light Aero Spares have a similar looking unit in their catalog
item 15144 shown here
http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=V02FX7LLH is this the one
fitted?
Is it possible to get a new plastic bit or do I need to get a whole new unit
from Europa?
Does anyone know if there is a metal alternative to the plastic bit
available?
Sorry there are so many questions, please be patient with a newbee.
Dave Disney
G-RJWX
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Subject: | Europas - as far as the eye can see! |
We had a fantastic turnout for the LAA rally held over this past weekend
at Sywell (UK). The flightline was reminiscent of Cranfield 10 or so
years back.
We seemed to dominate the show, with at least three on various stands.
At one point there were 38 Europas marshaled in two rows - as far as
the eye could see. With constant arrivals and departures the true total
has yet to be announced.
For those of you unable to attend, here is a picture.
Nigel
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Subject: | Re: Fuel funnel for Mogas |
Hello,
I wonder what kind of practical size for a FUEL FILETR FUNNEL have proven
to be most suitable for the Europa? From your comments it appears more
practical to rather pre-filter mogas at the filling station into the clean
fuel containers rather than sticking a filter into the fuel fill opening
on the EUROPA SX style on the side.
More specifically, Aircraft Spruce has 3 models, small, middle and large
with 2.5,3.5 and 5 rpm throughput, but significant size differences. Which
one would you recommend? I am filling up my AC first time this week
Christoph Both
#223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada
On 13-09-01 8:21 AM, "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
><carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
>Hi All,
>
>I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial
>shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's
>definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before
>assuming everything is clean.
>
>If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be
>addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their
>job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our
>tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps).
>
>In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some
>builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud
>which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe
>that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular
>issue.
>
>Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator
>setup
>instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one
>available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday
>and
>they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the setup is that any large
>lumps
>of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and
>will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very
>little
>muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron
>screen).
>
>We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on
>filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of
>a
>clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own
>debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not
>filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered.
>
>For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be
>possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be
>dropped
>down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external
>sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation.
>
>Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual
>warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage.
>
>Carl Pattinson
>G-LABS
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
>Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
>
>
>Hi John
>
>I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the
>first
>few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning
>every
>5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours
>caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning
>until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours the filter
>now
>need a clean about every 50 hours.
>
>My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as
>per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The
>beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all
>that
>is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. Cleaning is very easy
>you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the
>glass.
>
>I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect
>without taking it to bits.
>
>Pete
>Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton
>Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter
>fatality
>
>
>The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and
>hopefully
>not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident.
>But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems,
>especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have
>been a
>blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to
>yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb
>out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a
>blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline
>filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of
>inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off
>Europa.
>
>Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way
>smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a
>stoppage
>due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a
>hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire
>cover
>guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It
>ran
>on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my
>AP332
>controller.
>
>Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l
>changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To
>date
>these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
>
>In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel
>lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program
>change,
>the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require
>screw
>fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy
>Draper about the mod.
>
>Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC
>code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering.
>
>If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related
>(this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some
>action
>which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube
>filters.
>A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair
>version.
>
>
>I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the
>glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft
>operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the
>use
>of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information
>such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or
>partial
>blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated
>in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history
>is
>also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me.
>John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
>
>John Wighton
>Chief of Stress
>Pilatus Aircraft
>
>--------
>John Wighton
>Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
>
>
>--
>This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou,
>and is believed to be clean.
>
>
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|
Subject: | Re: Fuel funnel for Mogas |
Christoph,
what bigger that better in this action.
If small, you will loose your nerves - it is so
slow. Refueling speed is also safety issue - less
time to get debris from there and there!
There is also a model with double outport.
I have one large w 2 ports when using home and
carry small one w 1 port in the ac when flying
far.
Yes - It is very unpractical to use it when
filling XS. Use it when filling your canister. In
that way you can filter it 2nd time if necessary.
When filling direct to your ac its too late and
one time operation.
Good luck,
Raimo
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: Christoph Both
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel funnel for Mogas
<christoph.both@acadiau.ca>
Hello,
I wonder what kind of practical size for a FUEL
FILETR FUNNEL have proven
to be most suitable for the Europa? From your
comments it appears more
practical to rather pre-filter mogas at the
filling station into the clean
fuel containers rather than sticking a filter into
the fuel fill opening
on the EUROPA SX style on the side.
More specifically, Aircraft Spruce has 3 models,
small, middle and large
with 2.5,3.5 and 5 rpm throughput, but significant
size differences. Which
one would you recommend? I am filling up my AC
first time this week
Christoph Both
#223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada
On 13-09-01 8:21 AM, "Carl Pattinson"
<carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Pattinson"
><carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
>Hi All,
>
>I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked
>filters after the initial
>shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out
>tanks after build but it's
>definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel
>through the system before
>assuming everything is clean.
>
>If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an
>issue that should be
>addressed first rather instead of relying on the
>fuel filters to do their
>job. I accept that some of us have less control
>over what we put in our
>tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel
>at the airfield pumps).
>
>In the early days I recall that clogged filters
>were an issue for some
>builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed
>by large amounts of crud
>which should never have been there in the first
>place - I do not believe
>that changing the size of the filter mesh would
>address this particular
>issue.
>
>Personally I never liked the factory system and
>opted for a gascolator
>setup
>instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the
>cheap kit builders one
>available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced
>one at the LAA yesterday
>and
>they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the
>setup is that any large
>lumps
>of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom
>of the gascolator bowl and
>will be drained off when you do your do your
>daily fuel checks - very
>little
>muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the
>bowl (this is a 120 micron
>screen).
>
>We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from
>cans which we insist on
>filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have
>never found any signs of
>a
>clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal
>fuel cans generate their own
>debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to
>flake off and if not
>filtered would cause problems if not pre
>filtered.
>
>For those who have to rely on airfield based
>supplies if it should be
>possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon
>mesh) which could be
>dropped
>down the fuel filler opening to ensure the
>cleanliness of any external
>sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent
>installation.
>
>Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge
>which would give a visual
>warning of low pressure due to a filter
>blockage.
>
>Carl Pattinson
>G-LABS
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]
>On Behalf Of Pete Lawless
>Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
>
><pete@lawless.info>
>
>Hi John
>
>I have the original glass filters and am very
>happy with them. In the
>first
>few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and
>mine needed cleaning
>every
>5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one
>occasion at about 10 hours
>caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then
>less frequently cleaning
>until the tank settled down at about 100 hours.
>At 550 hours the filter
>now
>need a clean about every 50 hours.
>
>My filters are installed under the seats
>protected by a Perspex cover, as
>per the original Classic layout. I inspect them
>BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The
>beauty of the glass container is that you can see
>what is going on, all
>that
>is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and
>look. Cleaning is very easy
>you just change the filter screen for a new one
>and wipe the inside of the
>glass.
>
>I would be very reluctant to install a filter
>unit I could not inspect
>without taking it to bits.
>
>Pete
>Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]
>On Behalf Of John Wighton
>Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of
>father and daughter
>fatality
>
><john@wighton.net>
>
>The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft
>are shocking and
>hopefully
>not an indicator of the condition she was in at
>the time of the accident.
>But l have to say that if the level of neglect
>extended to the systems,
>especially the fuel system, the cause of the
>incident may easily have
>been a
>blocked filter. According to a close friend of
>David, whom l spoke to
>yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at
>full power in the climb
>out after refuelling. If so the classic case of
>power starvation due to a
>blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that
>the photos show the inline
>filter used is the standard glass tube variety.
>Blockage of this type of
>inline filter has caused many incidents and at
>least one written off
>Europa.
>
>Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron
>sized mesh. This is way
>smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated
>by Rotax. I had a
>stoppage
>due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few
>years ago, this led to a
>hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed
>(thanks for the fire
>cover
>guys). The filter was partially blocked with
>translucent material. It
>ran
>on the ground but would not feed fuel to the
>goverened 5000 rpm of my
>AP332
>controller.
>
>Having thereafter spent a year in a constant
>state of fuel feed anxiety l
>changed them for Andair filters which have a 60
>micron filter size. To
>date
>these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
>
>In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a
>version for 1/4in bore fuel
>lines could be made. He said it was quite easy,
>just a CNC program
>change,
>the filters would then have a push-on nipple type
>end and not require
>screw
>fit unions (as in my installation). Some
>discussion occurred with Andy
>Draper about the mod.
>
>Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got
>around to adapting the CNC
>code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA
>Engineering.
>
>If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on
>GBXS was filter related
>(this is speculative but informed on my part) we
>should support some
>action
>which will lead to changes in the use of these
>standard glass tube
>filters.
>A possibility for Europas could be a new filter,
>perhaps the Andair
>version.
>
>
>I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over
>the continued use of the
>glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa
>flyer, or other aircraft
>operator with the same filter type, can supply
>information regarding the
>use
>of these filters it may assist in deciding which
>way to go. Information
>such as frequency of inspection, frequency of
>cleaning, stoppage or
>partial
>blockage info, leaks, other issues will br
>gratefully received and treated
>in confidence. Likewise any info showing
>satisfactory in service history
>is
>also welcome. Please post info or email direct to
>me.
>John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
>
>John Wighton
>Chief of Stress
>Pilatus Aircraft
>
>--------
>John Wighton
>Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
>
>
>--
>This message has been scanned for viruses and
>dangerous content by Houxou,
>and is believed to be clean.
>
>
browse
Un/Subscription,
FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
Forums!
List Admin.
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Subject: | Texel coming up this weekend |
The weather is looking pretty good so G-CHOX is planning to go Friday and return
Sunday. Last time I looked there were only a handful of Europas preregisterd.
Any more planning on going?
It's a wonderful weekend when the weather plays ball.
Goff
Goff Moore
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407915#407915
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Subject: | Fuel funnel for Mogas |
I agree with Ramio - the bigger, the better. We have the largest size
available (about 8" in diameter at a guess) and we still have to pour
slowly
to avoid an overspill.
IMHO it is pointless filtering the fuel going into your fuel cans as the
internal paint (metal cans) has a tendency to flake off. It should be
filtered from the refuelling can or pump when going into the aircraft.
Easy
for me to say as we have the old style filling system (located on top).
Not sure how this works if you have the newer side filling system -
thinks
you may need to rig a sling to support the funnel on the side of the
fuselage with a length of poly tubing extending into the filler. I'm
sure
other Europa owners have cracked this problem.
It is worth mentioning that the fuel cans need to be earthed wherever
possible - not so much of a problem with metal cans.
I believe one Europa was lost to fire when a spark from can to filler
ignited the fuel. I think if you buy an aviation specific funnel (ie: Mr
Funnel) it will be made from conductive material but you would lose this
benefit if you extend the pipe with poly tubing. However it is
relatively
easy to earth the filler opening with your finger and then ensure you do
the
same with fuel can before commencing the fill.
I think the problem with static is generally associated with plastic
cans -
perhaps someone with better knowledge on this issue could comment.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christoph
Both
Sent: 02 September 2013 13:39
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel funnel for Mogas
--> <christoph.both@acadiau.ca>
Hello,
I wonder what kind of practical size for a FUEL FILETR FUNNEL have
proven to
be most suitable for the Europa? From your comments it appears more
practical to rather pre-filter mogas at the filling station into the
clean
fuel containers rather than sticking a filter into the fuel fill opening
on
the EUROPA SX style on the side.
More specifically, Aircraft Spruce has 3 models, small, middle and large
with 2.5,3.5 and 5 rpm throughput, but significant size differences.
Which
one would you recommend? I am filling up my AC first time this week=D0
Christoph Both
#223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada
On 13-09-01 8:21 AM, "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:
><carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
>Hi All,
>
>I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial
>shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but
>it's definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system
>before assuming everything is clean.
>
>If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be
>addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do
>their job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put
>in our tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the
airfield
pumps).
>
>In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some
>builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of
>crud which should never have been there in the first place - I do not
>believe that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this
>particular issue.
>
>Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator
>setup instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit
>builders one available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the
>LAA yesterday and they are selling for =A360) . The beauty of the setup
>is that any large lumps of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom
>of the gascolator bowl and will be drained off when you do your do your
>daily fuel checks - very little muck reaches the filter mesh at the top
>of the bowl (this is a 120 micron screen).
>
>We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on
>filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs
>of a clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate
>their own debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off
>and if not filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered.
>
>For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be
>possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be
>dropped down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any
>external sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation.
>
>Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a
>visual warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage.
>
>Carl Pattinson
>G-LABS
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
>Lawless
>Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
>
>
>Hi John
>
>I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the
>first few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed
>cleaning every
>5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10
>hours caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently
>cleaning until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours
>the filter now need a clean about every 50 hours.
>
>My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover,
>as per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY
>FLIGHT. The beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is
>going on, all that is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look.
>Cleaning is very easy you just change the filter screen for a new one
>and wipe the inside of the glass.
>
>I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect
>without taking it to bits.
>
>Pete
>Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
>Wighton
>Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter
>fatality
>
>
>The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and
>hopefully not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of
>the accident.
>But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems,
>especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have
>been a blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l
>spoke to yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power
>in the climb out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power
>starvation due to a blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the
>photos show the inline filter used is the standard glass tube variety.
>Blockage of this type of inline filter has caused many incidents and at
>least one written off Europa.
>
>Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is
>way smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a
>stoppage due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago,
>this led to a hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks
>for the fire cover guys). The filter was partially blocked with
>translucent material. It ran on the ground but would not feed fuel to
>the goverened 5000 rpm of my
>AP332
>controller.
>
>Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety
>l changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size.
>To date these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
>
>In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore
>fuel lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC
>program change, the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end
>and not require screw fit unions (as in my installation). Some
>discussion occurred with Andy Draper about the mod.
>
>Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the
>CNC code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering.
>
>If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter
>related (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support
>some action which will lead to changes in the use of these standard
>glass tube filters.
>A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair
>version.
>
>
>I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the
>glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft
>operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding
>the use of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go.
>Information such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning,
>stoppage or partial blockage info, leaks, other issues will br
>gratefully received and treated in confidence. Likewise any info
>showing satisfactory in service history is also welcome. Please post
>info or email direct to me.
>John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
>
>John Wighton
>Chief of Stress
>Pilatus Aircraft
>
>--------
>John Wighton
>Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
>
>
>--
>This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
>Houxou, and is believed to be clean.
>
>
List
7-Day
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Subject: | Re: Texel coming up this weekend |
I'll be there - weather permitting. But coming from the opposite direction.
See you there!
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS Trigear 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407916#407916
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Subject: | Re: Europas - as far as the eye can see! |
Nigel...thanks for posting the photo...fantastic turnout indeed...makes me want
to hop in a great silver bird and attend next year...I trust you can guarantee
the excellent weather...?...Fred
On Sep 2, 2013, at 5:34 AM, nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk wrote:
> We had a fantastic turnout for the LAA rally held over this past weekend at Sywell
(UK). The flightline was reminiscent of Cranfield 10 or so years back.
> We seemed to dominate the show, with at least three on various stands. At one
point there were 38 Europas marshaled in two rows - as far as the eye could
see. With constant arrivals and departures the true total has yet to be announced.
> For those of you unable to attend, here is a picture.
>
> Nigel
> <DSCF6108.JPG>
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Subject: | Fuel funnel for Mogas |
Hi There All,
I'm a bit puzzled with this topic or maybe I miss something: never had for the
last 42 years any trouble of debris in filters on my (numerous) cars nor with
my motor bikes (namely BMW using Bing 64 carbs). Why should have I using the same
SP98 carried from the fuel pumps via clean cans (assuming the tank of F-LH
is clean after 10 years of service and the pipes are Mogas compatible) ?
Max Cointe
mcointe@free.fr
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 450 hours
F-PLDJ DynAro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1550 heures
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Christoph Both
Envoy : lundi 2 septembre 2013 14:39
: europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : Re: Europa-List: Fuel funnel for Mogas
--> <christoph.both@acadiau.ca>
Hello,
I wonder what kind of practical size for a FUEL FILETR FUNNEL have proven to be
most suitable for the Europa? From your comments it appears more practical to
rather pre-filter mogas at the filling station into the clean fuel containers
rather than sticking a filter into the fuel fill opening on the EUROPA SX style
on the side.
More specifically, Aircraft Spruce has 3 models, small, middle and large with 2.5,3.5
and 5 rpm throughput, but significant size differences. Which one would
you recommend? I am filling up my AC first time this week Christoph Both
#223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada
On 13-09-01 8:21 AM, "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
><carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
>Hi All,
>
>I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial
>shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but
>it's definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system
>before assuming everything is clean.
>
>If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be
>addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do
>their job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put
>in our tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps).
>
>In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some
>builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of
>crud which should never have been there in the first place - I do not
>believe that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this
>particular issue.
>
>Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator
>setup instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit
>builders one available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the
>LAA yesterday and they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the setup
>is that any large lumps of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom
>of the gascolator bowl and will be drained off when you do your do your
>daily fuel checks - very little muck reaches the filter mesh at the top
>of the bowl (this is a 120 micron screen).
>
>We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on
>filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs
>of a clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate
>their own debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off
>and if not filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered.
>
>For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be
>possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be
>dropped down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any
>external sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation.
>
>Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a
>visual warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage.
>
>Carl Pattinson
>G-LABS
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
>Lawless
>Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters
>
>
>Hi John
>
>I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the
>first few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed
>cleaning every
>5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10
>hours caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently
>cleaning until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours
>the filter now need a clean about every 50 hours.
>
>My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover,
>as per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY
>FLIGHT. The beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is
>going on, all that is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look.
>Cleaning is very easy you just change the filter screen for a new one
>and wipe the inside of the glass.
>
>I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect
>without taking it to bits.
>
>Pete
>Classic #109 Rotax 912UL
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
>Wighton
>Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter
>fatality
>
>
>The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and
>hopefully not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of
>the accident.
>But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems,
>especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have
>been a blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l
>spoke to yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power
>in the climb out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power
>starvation due to a blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the
>photos show the inline filter used is the standard glass tube variety.
>Blockage of this type of inline filter has caused many incidents and at
>least one written off Europa.
>
>Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is
>way smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a
>stoppage due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago,
>this led to a hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks
>for the fire cover guys). The filter was partially blocked with
>translucent material. It ran on the ground but would not feed fuel to
>the goverened 5000 rpm of my
>AP332
>controller.
>
>Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety
>l changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size.
>To date these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
>
>In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore
>fuel lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC
>program change, the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end
>and not require screw fit unions (as in my installation). Some
>discussion occurred with Andy Draper about the mod.
>
>Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the
>CNC code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering.
>
>If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter
>related (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support
>some action which will lead to changes in the use of these standard
>glass tube filters.
>A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair
>version.
>
>
>I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the
>glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft
>operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding
>the use of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go.
>Information such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning,
>stoppage or partial blockage info, leaks, other issues will br
>gratefully received and treated in confidence. Likewise any info
>showing satisfactory in service history is also welcome. Please post
>info or email direct to me.
>John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
>
>John Wighton
>Chief of Stress
>Pilatus Aircraft
>
>--------
>John Wighton
>Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837
>
>
>--
>This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by
>Houxou, and is believed to be clean.
>
>
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Europas - as far as the eye can see! |
Of course Fred .......I'll have a word with the "big man" ;-)
Nigel
On 02/09/2013 15:04, Fred Klein wrote:
> Snip .....makes me want to hop in a great silver bird and attend next year...I
trust you can guarantee the excellent weather...?...Fred
>
>
Message 20
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I am using automotive gas inline filters with automotive plastic inserts. I too
check them very regularly. The problem of not being able to see if the bottom
of the fuel filter is clogged, or if there is transparent material is a real
problem. I use a small metal camping mirror that just fits beneath my filters
under the pilot seat. Then if you shine a flashlight on the glass it becomes
very obvious if there is foreign material underneath. Without the mirror you
can't see if there is gunk under the filter. The light helps you see the transparent
material. I guess I could permanently put the mirror there, but I also
use the mirror to see my fuel gauge that is just to the right of my right arm.
I have put a lighted strip behind the gas line, and with the lights and the
mirror can easily see the level of fuel. While I have an inline fuel totalizier
which has proved extremely accurate, I still like to see the actual level in
flight since it only measures flow used. If there is a leak between the gas tank
and the totalizier, you could be empty and still show fuel in the tank based
only on usage. Particularly when the fuel is low, it is hard for me to see
the level of fuel in the gas gauge line. (I also have a neck problem that makes
it hard to twist to see the fuel gauge when the level is low.) I have cut my
flight planning range to 2 hour flights, since I generally fly IFR and want
an extra reserve if I get caught in a headwind and decreasing ceilings which then
requires some hunting (and extra gas) for a good airport to tuck into. This
also means my safe fuel capacity equals my bladder capacity. (If I wanted to
go fast I would have built a 200 mph speedster.)
Gary Leinberger
N388SG
Lancaster, Pa.
Message 21
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Does anyone know of someone in the UK who can statically balance an
Arplast PV50 3-bladed propellor. I bought some re-conditioned blades
when I damaged my own, but they came with an obsolete hub so I fitted
them to my old, and much newer hub, but the result is more out of
balance then dynamic balancing can cope with, so I need to start with
static balancing. There is no point in trying Arplast as they don't
seem to like English speakers and ignore them. Please reply to me
direct.
Frank Mycroft
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Prop balancing |
Frank=0AYou can check the balance of each blade with an accurate (to 1/10th
gram) balance.=0AMake a jig to carry the blade pivoted about the centre o
f the prop, then weigh each blade moment=0Aat a point somewhere around 60%
radius. Should be equal of course.=0ASimplest knife edge pivot would be a p
air of nails through the wooden jig.=0AJerry Davis printed a better descrip
tion and diagram but I lost it years ago {{:-(=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____
___________________________=0A From: Frank Mycroft <frankm@clara.net>=0ATo:
europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 2 September 2013, 18:58=0ASubje
ct: Europa-List: Prop balancing=0A =0A=0A=0A =0ADoes anyone know of someone
in the UK who can =0Astatically balance an Arplast PV50 3-bladed propellor
.- I bought some =0Are-conditioned blades when I damaged my own, but they
came with an obsolete hub =0Aso I fitted them to my old, and much newer hu
b, but the result is more out of =0Abalance then dynamic balancing can cope
with, so I need to start with static =0Abalancing.- There is no point in
trying Arplast as they don't seem to like =0AEnglish speakers and ignore t
=======
Message 23
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Subject: | Spar socket hole enlargement |
The manual says to open up the port spar socket hole to 1" on one side
only, presumably the side facing the seatback. So why not the other
side? If the sockets are non structural, it would seem odd to sandwich
its plate between the bolt head and the spar bushing. What am I
missing here?
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