---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/02/13: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:23 AM - Re: Starter problems (Remi Guerner) 2. 12:52 AM - Re: Pitot Static - help needed. (Peter Jeffers) 3. 01:11 AM - Re: Fuel filters (Raimo Toivio) 4. 01:29 AM - Re: Fuel filters (Frans Veldman) 5. 01:38 AM - Re: Fuel filters (Raimo Toivio) 6. 01:41 AM - Re: Fuel filters (Raimo Toivio) 7. 01:49 AM - Re: Fuel filters (Raimo Toivio) 8. 02:28 AM - Re: Fuel filters (Bob Harrison) 9. 03:14 AM - Re: Pitot Static - help needed. (Dave Disney) 10. 03:42 AM - Re: Pitot Static - help needed. (richard) 11. 05:35 AM - Europas - as far as the eye can see! (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk) 12. 05:39 AM - Re: Fuel funnel for Mogas (Christoph Both) 13. 06:00 AM - Re: Fuel funnel for Mogas (Raimo Toivio) 14. 06:23 AM - Texel coming up this weekend (goff) 15. 06:35 AM - Re: Fuel funnel for Mogas (Carl Pattinson) 16. 06:40 AM - Re: Texel coming up this weekend (Roland) 17. 07:06 AM - Re: Europas - as far as the eye can see! (Fred Klein) 18. 07:06 AM - Re: Fuel funnel for Mogas (Max Cointe (Free)) 19. 08:00 AM - Re: Europas - as far as the eye can see! (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk) 20. 08:20 AM - Fuel filters (Gary Leinberger) 21. 10:59 AM - Prop balancing (Frank Mycroft) 22. 02:55 PM - Re: Prop balancing (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 23. 08:38 PM - Spar socket hole enlargement (Andrew Sarangan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:03 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Starter problems From: "Remi Guerner" Hi Paul, Yes I had a problem with the starter relay on two occasions: Once I had a click as you described. With another pilot in the cockpit I managed to short circuit the secondary coil of the relay to activate the starter so that I can go back home. Afterwards I fitted a new relay. I tested the old one on the bench and found it to be working properly, so I do not know the real cause of the problem. The other issue was just the opposite: the relay became stuck and I had not identified the problem before take off, so I flew one half hour with the starter running. Of course I cooked the starter motor. I have since installed a starter engaged warning light. Hope that helps Regards Remi F-PGKL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407901#407901 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:46 AM PST US From: " Peter Jeffers" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pitot Static - help needed. Hi Dave, At least in the past I have not had any problem getting these plastic static port ends from Europa Aviation. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Pattinson Sent: 02 September 2013 07:25 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitot Static - help needed. Hi Dave, If you contact me off list, I may be able to help (ie: make up a new piece). Worth speaking to Europa first in case they carry spares though in my experience they dont seem to have much in stock. LAS are pretty good though and if these are the same will probably be your best bet. My Europa is one of the very early ones so im not familiar with this particular pitot static head. Carl Pattinson - G-LABS 07768 473222 Sent from my ASUS Pad Dave Disney wrote: > >Just after take off from the LAA rally today (Sunday) I noticed that the ASI wasn't working (I know - how come I didn't notice it on the take off run, truth is I'm still new to the aircraft and was concentrating on keeping straight in the cross wind when it leapt off the ground). I flew on home and managed to land the aircraft using GPS ground speed. > >It seems that I may have broken off the black plastic static head which is now missing. > >Questions are :- > >Where can I get a new one from? > >Is the pitot static head a standard type item? > >I see that Light Aero Spares have a similar looking unit in their catalog item 15144 shown here http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=V02FX7LLH is this the one fitted? > >Is it possible to get a new plastic bit or do I need to get a whole new unit from Europa? > >Does anyone know if there is a metal alternative to the plastic bit available? > >Sorry there are so many questions, please be patient with a newbee. > >Dave Disney >G-RJWX > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407873#407873 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:09 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters Dear Bob /all, please try to understand that was MY only option! Otherwise - forced landing to the hard rocky forest including hungry wolves and beers. It is better you believe it was good to have two parallel filters - that is like to have two radios or two generators...that 2nd filter really made our day. Also, I was proud about myself, that my reaction was one and only correct way to proceed in that situation! It was not very risky to get new shit to the 2nd filter because - loose shit was obvious already in the 1st filter and - I fired up the engine with moderate power only. More: - In my pre-flight list there is a task "change for res/2nd filter for 3 minutes to test it" and - Water-drain both sides (never seen water). and - when out and raining I always cover a fuel cap because I do not trust it. Better to believe there are safe points but also not-so-safe-points in our Europa as well as any planes. Dual fuel systems is great and one of the in-build safe systems. Notice: - Adding one-way-valve to the fuel return line (idea by Frans Veldman) is a great must (and mandatory at least for me). Are you coming to EHTX next weekend? Cheers, Raimo -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Bob Harrison Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 11:29 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters Hi! Raimo/all You make an interesting statement with regards to switching to the reserve tank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I think you should remember that on a much used aircraft the filling system always delivers "the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the best will in the world it is likely to always store water contamination in a greater proportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect that the reserve switch will always be your salvation! The water drain valves need to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard glass Europa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair gascolator filters one for each saddle tank side. After an overnight stay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water from the reserve drain valve which I believe went into the tank through the locking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain . This incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't think it was from their refuel facility but who knows? Best regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total airframe hours in excess of 1000. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: 01 September 2013 19:03 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters Carl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic, I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard warnings!). I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before first flight. Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power during cruise and my Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over mountaineous forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We looked each others and I elected to switch electric pump on AND changed to reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel system - there is always a clean filter waiting!). That was an autonomious reflex only. Rotax fired up immediately. Jyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction or after a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense. He also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had had a habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to somewhere. He had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all succesful and all because of service failure or service mistake. That has happened during his career say 50 years. My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles looking gold but they were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes. My guess was they (those particles) were "glued" to the tank inside surfaces by static forces. That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by flight it seemed to be cleaner and cleaner. Today I check my filters say after every 10 hours - always clean. When refueling I have only two alternatives: 1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield. Systems are aircraft quality, classified and certified, filtered and water-isolated. 2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w as good brand as possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnels debris /water isolator. Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any more fuel problems. I never clean my filters. I change them for new ones once a year (after 50-100 hrs service). I do not use those original puzzle filters w several parts and glass tube. One was broken during towing action and one was broken by itself in the hangar. I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - one piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way - cheap - unbreakable. Sold? How many you want? Cheers, Raimo Toivio FINLAND OH-XRT -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Carl Pattinson Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters Pattinson" Hi All, I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before assuming everything is clean. If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps). In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular issue. Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator setup instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday and they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the setup is that any large lumps of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very little muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron screen). We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of a clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered. For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be dropped down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation. Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage. Carl Pattinson G-LABS -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08 Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters Hi John I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the first few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning every 5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours the filter now need a clean about every 50 hours. My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all that is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. Cleaning is very easy you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the glass. I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect without taking it to bits. Pete Classic #109 Rotax 912UL -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident. But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems, especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa. Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332 controller. Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date these have proven extremely reliable (100%). In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change, the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy Draper about the mod. Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering. If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters. A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version. I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me. John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net John Wighton Chief of Stress Pilatus Aircraft -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin. browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters From: Frans Veldman I'm not to fond about the hungry wolves but that beer is included is a big plus! Raimo Toivio wrote: > >Otherwise - forced landing to the hard rocky >forest including hungry wolves and beers. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On >Behalf Of Pete Lawless >Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08 >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters > > > >Hi John > >I have the original glass filters and am very >happy with them. In the first >few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and >mine needed cleaning every >5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one >occasion at about 10 hours >caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then >less frequently cleaning >until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At >550 hours the filter now >need a clean about every 50 hours. > >My filters are installed under the seats protected >by a Perspex cover, as >per the original Classic layout. I inspect them >BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The >beauty of the glass container is that you can see >what is going on, all that >is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. >Cleaning is very easy >you just change the filter screen for a new one >and wipe the inside of the >glass. > >I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit >I could not inspect >without taking it to bits. > >Pete >Classic #109 Rotax 912UL > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On >Behalf Of John Wighton >Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23 >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of >father and daughter fatality > > > >The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft >are shocking and hopefully >not an indicator of the condition she was in at >the time of the accident. >But l have to say that if the level of neglect >extended to the systems, >especially the fuel system, the cause of the >incident may easily have been a >blocked filter. According to a close friend of >David, whom l spoke to >yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at >full power in the climb >out after refuelling. If so the classic case of >power starvation due to a >blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that >the photos show the inline >filter used is the standard glass tube variety. >Blockage of this type of >inline filter has caused many incidents and at >least one written off Europa. > >Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron >sized mesh. This is way >smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated >by Rotax. I had a stoppage >due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few >years ago, this led to a >hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed >(thanks for the fire cover >guys). The filter was partially blocked with >translucent material. It ran >on the ground but would not feed fuel to the >goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332 >controller. > >Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state >of fuel feed anxiety l >changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 >micron filter size. To date >these have proven extremely reliable (100%). > >In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a >version for 1/4in bore fuel >lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, >just a CNC program change, >the filters would then have a push-on nipple type >end and not require screw >fit unions (as in my installation). Some >discussion occurred with Andy >Draper about the mod. > >Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got >around to adapting the CNC >code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA >Engineering. > >If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on >GBXS was filter related >(this is speculative but informed on my part) we >should support some action >which will lead to changes in the use of these >standard glass tube filters. >A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, >perhaps the Andair version. > > >I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the >continued use of the >glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa >flyer, or other aircraft >operator with the same filter type, can supply >information regarding the use >of these filters it may assist in deciding which >way to go. Information >such as frequency of inspection, frequency of >cleaning, stoppage or partial >blockage info, leaks, other issues will br >gratefully received and treated >in confidence. Likewise any info showing >satisfactory in service history is >also welcome. Please post info or email direct to >me. >John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net > >John Wighton >Chief of Stress >Pilatus Aircraft > >-------- >John Wighton >Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 > > >-- >This message has been scanned for viruses and >dangerous content by Houxou, >and is believed to be clean. > > >browse >Un/Subscription, >FAQ, >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >Forums! >List Admin. > > >browse >Un/Subscription, >FAQ, >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >Forums! >List Admin. > > -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:38:54 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters Anrew, you made a good question: Yes - that was made through BOTH filters (150 liters /filter) and they remain totally clean. Main reason they were clean was obviously that I run fuel only by electric fuel pump ie. engine was not running. My purpose was to calibrate fuel gauge (electric and visual), check the system and to clean it. As we know, I did not succeeded. But I did during that flight! After that - filters have been *almost* clean after every change period one year (=50-100 hrs). Notice: I had flown before that case 5 hours. I had used more or less full power at least ten times x 5 minutes during every take-off. That main filter was still clean from flight to flight until that almost destiny flight. Thats a bit scary, isnt it? Why: As you wrote, vibration, static effects and also time, fuel itself, temperature changes etc affects to the tank shit and its releasing time. Maybe also full moon periods can do that. I am sure Frans can imagine a lot more reasons for that. How to avoid: - clean more carefully. - use your time. - use different methods (ionizing could be that). - check the tank by using boroscope with light. - before first flight complete a lot full power engine tests. - when flying a test period say first 5 hours do that only over your landing area. - when using full power during your test phase say first 10 hours do that only over your landing area. BTW - checked that lab report - that gold coloured "material" which suddenly blocked my filter during that flight - shit in the filter - was epoxbased. Maybe it was somehow glued to the tank inside and finally separated. Cheers, Raimo OH-XRT -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Andrew Sarangan Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 4:32 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters Raimo When you say "I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before first flight", was that done through the fuel filter? If yes, I am curious why those particles were released during flight and not during the flush. Could ie be vibration, or some other antistatic effect during flight. May be an ionizing airgun can be used to release stuck particles? On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote: > Toivio" > > Carl and the rest of you who are interested in > this topic, > > I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful > several times (I had heard > warnings!). I pumped through the system at least > 300 liters of fuel before > first flight. > > Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed > full power during cruise and my > Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure > went down. Over mountaineous > forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a > famous test pilot (google!). We > looked each others and I elected to switch > electric pump on AND changed to > reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - > how genious is that fuel > system - there is always a clean filter > waiting!). That was an autonomious > reflex only. Rotax fired up immediately. > > Jyrki said later please never apply full power > with a new construction or > after a major service if you are not above > airfield! That makes sense. He > also said he is alive because after every > service or repair he had had a > habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field > before heading to somewhere. > He had completed 9 forced landings and all over > the runways, all succesful > and all because of service failure or service > mistake. That has happened > during his career say 50 years. > > My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was > totally blocked by small particles > looking gold but they were identified to be shit > from lay-upp processes. My > guess was they (those particles) were "glued" to > the tank inside surfaces by > static forces. > > That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY > flight. Flight by flight it > seemed to be cleaner and cleaner. > > Today I check my filters say after every 10 > hours - always clean. > > When refueling I have only two alternatives: > > 1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield. > Systems are aircraft > quality, classified and certified, filtered and > water-isolated. > > 2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol > stations w as good brand as > possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc > Funnels debris /water > isolator. > > Since that scary action 2007, I have had never > any more fuel problems. > > I never clean my filters. I change them for new > ones once a year (after > 50-100 hrs service). > > I do not use those original puzzle filters w > several parts and glass tube. > > One was broken during towing action and one was > broken by itself in the > hangar. > > I use original Rotax filters - they are > throwaway models - transparent - one > piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to > assemble them wrong way - > cheap - unbreakable. > > Sold? How many you want? > > Cheers, > > Raimo Toivio > FINLAND > OH-XRT > > > -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Carl > Pattinson > Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters > > > Pattinson" > > > Hi All, > > I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked > filters after the initial > shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out > tanks after build but it's > definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel > through the system before > assuming everything is clean. > > If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an > issue that should be > addressed first rather instead of relying on the > fuel filters to do their > job. I accept that some of us have less control > over what we put in our > tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing > fuel at the airfield pumps). > > In the early days I recall that clogged filters > were an issue for some > builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed > by large amounts of crud > which should never have been there in the first > place - I do not believe > that changing the size of the filter mesh would > address this particular > issue. > > Personally I never liked the factory system and > opted for a gascolator setup > instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the > cheap kit builders one > available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced > one at the LAA yesterday and > they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the > setup is that any large lumps > of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom > of the gascolator bowl and > will be drained off when you do your do your > daily fuel checks - very little > muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the > bowl (this is a 120 micron > screen). > > We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from > cans which we insist on > filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have > never found any signs of a > clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal > fuel cans generate their own > debris as the internal paint on the cans tends > to flake off and if not > filtered would cause problems if not pre > filtered. > > For those who have to rely on airfield based > supplies if it should be > possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon > mesh) which could be dropped > down the fuel filler opening to ensure the > cleanliness of any external > sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent > installation. > > Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge > which would give a visual > warning of low pressure due to a filter > blockage. > > Carl Pattinson > G-LABS > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of Pete Lawless > Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters > > Lawless" > > Hi John > > I have the original glass filters and am very > happy with them. In the first > few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked > and mine needed cleaning every > 5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one > occasion at about 10 hours > caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then > less frequently cleaning > until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. > At 550 hours the filter now > need a clean about every 50 hours. > > My filters are installed under the seats > protected by a Perspex cover, as > per the original Classic layout. I inspect them > BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The > beauty of the glass container is that you can > see what is going on, all that > is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and > look. Cleaning is very easy > you just change the filter screen for a new one > and wipe the inside of the > glass. > > I would be very reluctant to install a filter > unit I could not inspect > without taking it to bits. > > Pete > Classic #109 Rotax 912UL > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of John Wighton > Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of > father and daughter fatality > > Wighton" > > The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft > are shocking and hopefully > not an indicator of the condition she was in at > the time of the accident. > But l have to say that if the level of neglect > extended to the systems, > especially the fuel system, the cause of the > incident may easily have been a > blocked filter. According to a close friend of > David, whom l spoke to > yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred > at full power in the climb > out after refuelling. If so the classic case of > power starvation due to a > blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that > the photos show the inline > filter used is the standard glass tube variety. > Blockage of this type of > inline filter has caused many incidents and at > least one written off Europa. > > Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron > sized mesh. This is way > smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated > by Rotax. I had a stoppage > due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a > few years ago, this led to a > hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed > (thanks for the fire cover > guys). The filter was partially blocked with > translucent material. It ran > on the ground but would not feed fuel to the > goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332 > controller. > > Having thereafter spent a year in a constant > state of fuel feed anxiety l > changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 > micron filter size. To date > these have proven extremely reliable (100%). > > In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a > version for 1/4in bore fuel > lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, > just a CNC program change, > the filters would then have a push-on nipple > type end and not require screw > fit unions (as in my installation). Some > discussion occurred with Andy > Draper about the mod. > > Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got > around to adapting the CNC > code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA > Engineering. > > If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage > on GBXS was filter related > (this is speculative but informed on my part) we > should support some action > which will lead to changes in the use of these > standard glass tube filters. > A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, > perhaps the Andair version. > > > I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over > the continued use of the > glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa > flyer, or other aircraft > operator with the same filter type, can supply > information regarding the use > of these filters it may assist in deciding which > way to go. Information > such as frequency of inspection, frequency of > cleaning, stoppage or partial > blockage info, leaks, other issues will br > gratefully received and treated > in confidence. Likewise any info showing > satisfactory in service history is > also welcome. Please post info or email direct > to me. > John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net > > John Wighton > Chief of Stress > Pilatus Aircraft > > -------- > John Wighton > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by Houxou, > and is believed to be clean. > > > browse > Un/Subscription, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > Forums! > List Admin. > > browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:54 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters OK Frans, that beer* is still waiting for you here - I will handle those bears then (maybe eat)! * Aviators Beer -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Frans Veldman Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters I'm not to fond about the hungry wolves but that beer is included is a big plus! Raimo Toivio wrote: > > >Otherwise - forced landing to the hard rocky >forest including hungry wolves and beers. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] >On >Behalf Of Pete Lawless >Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08 >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters > > > >Hi John > >I have the original glass filters and am very >happy with them. In the first >few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and >mine needed cleaning every >5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one >occasion at about 10 hours >caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then >less frequently cleaning >until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. >At >550 hours the filter now >need a clean about every 50 hours. > >My filters are installed under the seats >protected >by a Perspex cover, as >per the original Classic layout. I inspect them >BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The >beauty of the glass container is that you can see >what is going on, all that >is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and >look. >Cleaning is very easy >you just change the filter screen for a new one >and wipe the inside of the >glass. > >I would be very reluctant to install a filter >unit >I could not inspect >without taking it to bits. > >Pete >Classic #109 Rotax 912UL > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] >On >Behalf Of John Wighton >Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23 >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of >father and daughter fatality > > > >The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft >are shocking and hopefully >not an indicator of the condition she was in at >the time of the accident. >But l have to say that if the level of neglect >extended to the systems, >especially the fuel system, the cause of the >incident may easily have been a >blocked filter. According to a close friend of >David, whom l spoke to >yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at >full power in the climb >out after refuelling. If so the classic case of >power starvation due to a >blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that >the photos show the inline >filter used is the standard glass tube variety. >Blockage of this type of >inline filter has caused many incidents and at >least one written off Europa. > >Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron >sized mesh. This is way >smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated >by Rotax. I had a stoppage >due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few >years ago, this led to a >hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed >(thanks for the fire cover >guys). The filter was partially blocked with >translucent material. It ran >on the ground but would not feed fuel to the >goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332 >controller. > >Having thereafter spent a year in a constant >state >of fuel feed anxiety l >changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 >micron filter size. To date >these have proven extremely reliable (100%). > >In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a >version for 1/4in bore fuel >lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, >just a CNC program change, >the filters would then have a push-on nipple type >end and not require screw >fit unions (as in my installation). Some >discussion occurred with Andy >Draper about the mod. > >Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got >around to adapting the CNC >code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA >Engineering. > >If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on >GBXS was filter related >(this is speculative but informed on my part) we >should support some action >which will lead to changes in the use of these >standard glass tube filters. >A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, >perhaps the Andair version. > > >I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over >the >continued use of the >glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa >flyer, or other aircraft >operator with the same filter type, can supply >information regarding the use >of these filters it may assist in deciding which >way to go. Information >such as frequency of inspection, frequency of >cleaning, stoppage or partial >blockage info, leaks, other issues will br >gratefully received and treated >in confidence. Likewise any info showing >satisfactory in service history is >also welcome. Please post info or email direct to >me. >John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net > >John Wighton >Chief of Stress >Pilatus Aircraft > >-------- >John Wighton >Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 > > >-- >This message has been scanned for viruses and >dangerous content by Houxou, >and is believed to be clean. > > >browse >Un/Subscription, >FAQ, >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >Forums! >List Admin. > > >browse >Un/Subscription, >FAQ, >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >Forums! >List Admin. > > -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:38 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters It worries me when I hear tales of blocked filters as we have never experienced this. Im tempted to re design our system and introduce a dual system but then with over 10 years of trouble free flying its probably best to leave well alone. One recommendation I would strongly make is to ensure that all fuel going into the tank is filtered. I believe it will eliminate 90% of the problem. Carl, if I were you, I would do same. Your method is proofed after 10 years. Re-designing is always a new risk. Refueling quality is essential anyway as you wrote. You take care of your plane a lot better than me: I have not cleaned my tank after it=C2=B4s completion 2007. I have only trusted my refueling manners and filters (which are always *almost* clean). One more thing: - use only your very own and known canisters. - in the new canister there could be what so ever like mices or gigarrettes (from China). - trust only yourself when refueling. Cheers, Raimo OH-XRT From: Carl Pattinson Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 9:56 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters Hi all, Maybe I am being smug or just plain naive but we have never had a blockage/ stoppage with our fuel system. I believe this is almost entirely due to us opting for a gascolator as opposed to the standard filter system. As per my previous post it is a cheapo homebuild gascolator unit with a very fine mesh filter (unfortunately 140 micron is the only size available). We do get the odd bit of muck (ie: small particles) but these settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and get drained out on the preflight inspection. One one occasion there was about a tablespoon of water after the ac had been left standing in the rain without covering the filler cap. The gascolator is dismantled and filter gauze changed every 6 months though little debris is found at these inspections. Fuel tank is fully drained and flushed once a year with tail raised as high as possible. It worries me when I hear tales of blocked filters as we have never experienced this. Im tempted to re design our system and introduce a dual system but then with over 10 years of trouble free flying its probably best to leave well alone. One recommendation I would strongly make is to ensure that all fuel going into the tank is filtered. I believe it will eliminate 90% of the problem. Carl Pattinson - G-LABS. Sent from my ASUS Pad GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote: Bob good to see you at the show. I have seen water leak into the tank from overnight rain. through the plastic fuel tank cap that many Europas have. Difficult to adjust when they get corroded and the hut rusts up. Also the size of the O ring is imprtant. Graham ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: Bob Harrison Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2013, 21:29 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters Hi! Raimo/all You make an interesting statement with regards to switching to the reserve tank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I think you should remember that on a much used aircraft the filling system always delivers "the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the best will in the world it is likely to always store water contamination in a greater proportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect that the reserve switch will always be your salvation! The water drain valves need to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard glass Europa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair gascolator filters one for each saddle tank side. After an overnight stay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water from the reserve drain valve which I believe went into the tank through the locking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain .. This incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't think it was from their refuel facility but who knows? Best regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total airframe hours in excess of 1000. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: 01 September 2013 19:03 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters Carl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic, I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard warnings!). I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before first flight. Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power during cruise and my Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over mountaineous forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We looked each others and I elected to switch electric pump on AND changed to reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel system - there is always a clean filter waiting!). That was an autonomious reflex only. Rotax fired up immediately. Jyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction or after a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense. He also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had had a habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to somewhere. He had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all succesful and all because of service failure or service mistake. That has happened during his career say 50 years. My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles looking gold but they were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes. My guess was they (those particles) were "glued" to the tank inside surfaces by static forces. That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by flight it seemed to be cleaner and cleaner. Today I check my filters say after every 10 hours - always clean. When refueling I have only two alternatives: 1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield. Systems are aircraft quality, classified and certified, filtered and water-isolated. 2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w as good brand as possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnel=C2=B4s debris /water isolator. Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any more fuel problems. I never clean my filters. I change them for new ones once a year (after 50-100 hrs service). I do not use those original puzzle filters w several parts and glass tube. One was broken during towing action and one was broken by itself in the hangar. I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - one piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way - cheap - unbreakable. Sold? How many you want? Cheers, Raimo Toivio FINLAND OH-XRT -----Alkuper=C3=A4inen viesti----- From: Carl Pattinson Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters Pattinson" Hi All, I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before assuming everything is clean. If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps). In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular issue. Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator setup instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday and they are selling for =C2=A360) . The beauty of the setup is that any large lumps of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very little muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron screen). We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of a clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered. For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be dropped down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation. Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage. Carl Pattinson G-LABS -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08 Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters Hi John I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the first few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning every 5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours the filter now need a clean about every 50 hours. My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all that is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. Cleaning is very easy you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the glass. I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect without taking it to bits. Pete Classic #109 Rotax 912UL -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident. But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems, especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa. Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332 controller. Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date these have proven extremely reliable (100%). In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change, the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy Draper about the mod. Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering. If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters. A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version. I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me. John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net John Wighton Chief of Stress Pilatus Aircraft -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums --> http://forums.matronics.comhttp://ww============= ========= =EF=BD~=EF=BD=03 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:28:07 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters Hi! Raimo/all I hope to be at Texel, except I have bad mag drop readout which I have to "bottom out" and a new Arificial Gyro Horizon since LAA Rally to fit plus I may have "date" with a Heathrow "arrival" which will take priority ! But hope so since it is the last for my season. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: 02 September 2013 09:10 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters Dear Bob /all, please try to understand that was MY only option! Otherwise - forced landing to the hard rocky forest including hungry wolves and beers. It is better you believe it was good to have two parallel filters - that is like to have two radios or two generators...that 2nd filter really made our day. Also, I was proud about myself, that my reaction was one and only correct way to proceed in that situation! It was not very risky to get new shit to the 2nd filter because - loose shit was obvious already in the 1st filter and - I fired up the engine with moderate power only. More: - In my pre-flight list there is a task "change for res/2nd filter for 3 minutes to test it" and - Water-drain both sides (never seen water). and - when out and raining I always cover a fuel cap because I do not trust it. Better to believe there are safe points but also not-so-safe-points in our Europa as well as any planes. Dual fuel systems is great and one of the in-build safe systems. Notice: - Adding one-way-valve to the fuel return line (idea by Frans Veldman) is a great must (and mandatory at least for me). Are you coming to EHTX next weekend? Cheers, Raimo -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Bob Harrison Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 11:29 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters Hi! Raimo/all You make an interesting statement with regards to switching to the reserve tank and got a clean filter to start up with , however I think you should remember that on a much used aircraft the filling system always delivers "the new shit " into the reserve side of the saddle tank and with the best will in the world it is likely to always store water contamination in a greater proportion than that on the main delivery side, so don't expect that the reserve switch will always be your salvation! The water drain valves need to be often tested on both sides . I did away with the standard glass Europa issue filters and use TWO mini Andair gascolator filters one for each saddle tank side. After an overnight stay in pouring rain I took about half a litre of water from the reserve drain valve which I believe went into the tank through the locking fuel cap so I try to tape up the entire filler cap when in rain . This incident was at Zelam See (?and I don't think it was from their refuel facility but who knows? Best regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG kit 337 Now Rotax 914 total airframe hours in excess of 1000. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: 01 September 2013 19:03 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filters Carl and the rest of you who are interested in this topic, I did it also. I cleaned my tank very careful several times (I had heard warnings!). I pumped through the system at least 300 liters of fuel before first flight. Despite that - total hours 5 - I once pushed full power during cruise and my Rotax went silent immediately. Fuel pressure went down. Over mountaineous forest. My co-pilot was Jyrki Laukkanen, a famous test pilot (google!). We looked each others and I elected to switch electric pump on AND changed to reserve tank (and to another fuel filter also - how genious is that fuel system - there is always a clean filter waiting!). That was an autonomious reflex only. Rotax fired up immediately. Jyrki said later please never apply full power with a new construction or after a major service if you are not above airfield! That makes sense. He also said he is alive because after every service or repair he had had a habit to fly at least 15 minutes over the field before heading to somewhere. He had completed 9 forced landings and all over the runways, all succesful and all because of service failure or service mistake. That has happened during his career say 50 years. My fuel filter was checked in lab. It was totally blocked by small particles looking gold but they were identified to be shit from lay-upp processes. My guess was they (those particles) were "glued" to the tank inside surfaces by static forces. That after I checked my fuel filter after EVERY flight. Flight by flight it seemed to be cleaner and cleaner. Today I check my filters say after every 10 hours - always clean. When refueling I have only two alternatives: 1) Refuel 100LL direct to my ac in the airfield. Systems are aircraft quality, classified and certified, filtered and water-isolated. 2) Refuel autofuel 98E 0-5% alcohol from petrol stations w as good brand as possible direct to MY canisters through Mr. Mc Funnels debris /water isolator. Since that scary action 2007, I have had never any more fuel problems. I never clean my filters. I change them for new ones once a year (after 50-100 hrs service). I do not use those original puzzle filters w several parts and glass tube. One was broken during towing action and one was broken by itself in the hangar. I use original Rotax filters - they are throwaway models - transparent - one piece - plastic non glass - you are not able to assemble them wrong way - cheap - unbreakable. Sold? How many you want? Cheers, Raimo Toivio FINLAND OH-XRT -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Carl Pattinson Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 2:21 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel filters Pattinson" Hi All, I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before assuming everything is clean. If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps). In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular issue. Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator setup instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday and they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the setup is that any large lumps of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very little muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron screen). We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of a clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered. For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be dropped down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation. Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage. Carl Pattinson G-LABS -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08 Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters Hi John I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the first few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning every 5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours the filter now need a clean about every 50 hours. My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all that is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. Cleaning is very easy you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the glass. I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect without taking it to bits. Pete Classic #109 Rotax 912UL -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident. But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems, especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa. Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332 controller. Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date these have proven extremely reliable (100%). In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change, the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy Draper about the mod. Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering. If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters. A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version. I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me. John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net John Wighton Chief of Stress Pilatus Aircraft -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, and is believed to be clean. browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin. browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:14:00 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Pitot Static - help needed. From: "Dave Disney" Thank you all for your useful help and suggestions. I called the factory this morning and this is something that they carry as spares in stock. The lovely Karen is putting a couple in a jiffy bag first class post so hopefully I shouldn't be grounded for too long. I've ordered two, one to fit and one to make a copy of in something a little more robust. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407909#407909 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:23 AM PST US From: "richard" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitot Static - help needed. Hi Dave I had the same problem last year whilst test flying with Andy Draper, we over came the problem with a spare static plastic end piece given me by Ian Rickard [Very pleased to see Ian and Irene at the Rally] anyway I have made a jig and can run off an aluminium replacement for you if you want one. Do they work? yes I broke the replacement that Ian gave me so I am flying with my aluminium replacement . Contact me on 01327 260045 or at rcollings@talktalk.net Regards Richard Europa XS Tri-gear G-CGZV 60 hrs -----Original Message----- From: Dave Disney Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2013 10:25 PM Subject: Europa-List: Pitot Static - help needed. Just after take off from the LAA rally today (Sunday) I noticed that the ASI wasn't working (I know - how come I didn't notice it on the take off run, truth is I'm still new to the aircraft and was concentrating on keeping straight in the cross wind when it leapt off the ground). I flew on home and managed to land the aircraft using GPS ground speed. It seems that I may have broken off the black plastic static head which is now missing. Questions are :- Where can I get a new one from? Is the pitot static head a standard type item? I see that Light Aero Spares have a similar looking unit in their catalog item 15144 shown here http://www.lasaero.com/site/products/article?id=V02FX7LLH is this the one fitted? Is it possible to get a new plastic bit or do I need to get a whole new unit from Europa? Does anyone know if there is a metal alternative to the plastic bit available? Sorry there are so many questions, please be patient with a newbee. Dave Disney G-RJWX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407873#407873 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:46 AM PST US From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" Subject: Europa-List: Europas - as far as the eye can see! We had a fantastic turnout for the LAA rally held over this past weekend at Sywell (UK). The flightline was reminiscent of Cranfield 10 or so years back. We seemed to dominate the show, with at least three on various stands. At one point there were 38 Europas marshaled in two rows - as far as the eye could see. With constant arrivals and departures the true total has yet to be announced. For those of you unable to attend, here is a picture. Nigel ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:30 AM PST US From: Christoph Both Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel funnel for Mogas Hello, I wonder what kind of practical size for a FUEL FILETR FUNNEL have proven to be most suitable for the Europa? From your comments it appears more practical to rather pre-filter mogas at the filling station into the clean fuel containers rather than sticking a filter into the fuel fill opening on the EUROPA SX style on the side. More specifically, Aircraft Spruce has 3 models, small, middle and large with 2.5,3.5 and 5 rpm throughput, but significant size differences. Which one would you recommend? I am filling up my AC first time this week Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada On 13-09-01 8:21 AM, "Carl Pattinson" wrote: > > >Hi All, > >I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial >shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but it's >definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system before >assuming everything is clean. > >If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be >addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do their >job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put in our >tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps). > >In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some >builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of crud >which should never have been there in the first place - I do not believe >that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this particular >issue. > >Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator >setup >instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit builders one >available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the LAA yesterday >and >they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the setup is that any large >lumps >of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom of the gascolator bowl and >will be drained off when you do your do your daily fuel checks - very >little >muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the bowl (this is a 120 micron >screen). > >We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on >filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs of >a >clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate their own >debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off and if not >filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered. > >For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be >possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be >dropped >down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any external >sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation. > >Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a visual >warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage. > >Carl Pattinson >G-LABS > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Lawless >Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08 >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters > > >Hi John > >I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the >first >few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed cleaning >every >5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 hours >caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently cleaning >until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours the filter >now >need a clean about every 50 hours. > >My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, as >per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The >beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is going on, all >that >is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. Cleaning is very easy >you just change the filter screen for a new one and wipe the inside of the >glass. > >I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect >without taking it to bits. > >Pete >Classic #109 Rotax 912UL > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Wighton >Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23 >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter >fatality > > >The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and >hopefully >not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident. >But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems, >especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have >been a >blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to >yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb >out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a >blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline >filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of >inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off >Europa. > >Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way >smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a >stoppage >due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a >hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire >cover >guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It >ran >on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my >AP332 >controller. > >Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l >changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To >date >these have proven extremely reliable (100%). > >In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel >lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program >change, >the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require >screw >fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy >Draper about the mod. > >Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC >code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering. > >If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related >(this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some >action >which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube >filters. >A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair >version. > > >I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the >glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft >operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the >use >of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information >such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or >partial >blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated >in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history >is >also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me. >John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net > >John Wighton >Chief of Stress >Pilatus Aircraft > >-------- >John Wighton >Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 > > >-- >This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Houxou, >and is believed to be clean. > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:14 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel funnel for Mogas Christoph, what bigger that better in this action. If small, you will loose your nerves - it is so slow. Refueling speed is also safety issue - less time to get debris from there and there! There is also a model with double outport. I have one large w 2 ports when using home and carry small one w 1 port in the ac when flying far. Yes - It is very unpractical to use it when filling XS. Use it when filling your canister. In that way you can filter it 2nd time if necessary. When filling direct to your ac its too late and one time operation. Good luck, Raimo -----Alkuperinen viesti----- From: Christoph Both Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 3:39 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel funnel for Mogas Hello, I wonder what kind of practical size for a FUEL FILETR FUNNEL have proven to be most suitable for the Europa? From your comments it appears more practical to rather pre-filter mogas at the filling station into the clean fuel containers rather than sticking a filter into the fuel fill opening on the EUROPA SX style on the side. More specifically, Aircraft Spruce has 3 models, small, middle and large with 2.5,3.5 and 5 rpm throughput, but significant size differences. Which one would you recommend? I am filling up my AC first time this week Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada On 13-09-01 8:21 AM, "Carl Pattinson" wrote: >Pattinson" > > >Hi All, > >I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked >filters after the initial >shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out >tanks after build but it's >definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel >through the system before >assuming everything is clean. > >If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an >issue that should be >addressed first rather instead of relying on the >fuel filters to do their >job. I accept that some of us have less control >over what we put in our >tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel >at the airfield pumps). > >In the early days I recall that clogged filters >were an issue for some >builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed >by large amounts of crud >which should never have been there in the first >place - I do not believe >that changing the size of the filter mesh would >address this particular >issue. > >Personally I never liked the factory system and >opted for a gascolator >setup >instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the >cheap kit builders one >available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced >one at the LAA yesterday >and >they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the >setup is that any large >lumps >of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom >of the gascolator bowl and >will be drained off when you do your do your >daily fuel checks - very >little >muck reaches the filter mesh at the top of the >bowl (this is a 120 micron >screen). > >We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from >cans which we insist on >filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have >never found any signs of >a >clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal >fuel cans generate their own >debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to >flake off and if not >filtered would cause problems if not pre >filtered. > >For those who have to rely on airfield based >supplies if it should be >possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon >mesh) which could be >dropped >down the fuel filler opening to ensure the >cleanliness of any external >sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent >installation. > >Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge >which would give a visual >warning of low pressure due to a filter >blockage. > >Carl Pattinson >G-LABS > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] >On Behalf Of Pete Lawless >Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08 >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters > > > >Hi John > >I have the original glass filters and am very >happy with them. In the >first >few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and >mine needed cleaning >every >5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one >occasion at about 10 hours >caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then >less frequently cleaning >until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. >At 550 hours the filter >now >need a clean about every 50 hours. > >My filters are installed under the seats >protected by a Perspex cover, as >per the original Classic layout. I inspect them >BEFORE EVERY FLIGHT. The >beauty of the glass container is that you can see >what is going on, all >that >is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and >look. Cleaning is very easy >you just change the filter screen for a new one >and wipe the inside of the >glass. > >I would be very reluctant to install a filter >unit I could not inspect >without taking it to bits. > >Pete >Classic #109 Rotax 912UL > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] >On Behalf Of John Wighton >Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23 >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of >father and daughter >fatality > > > >The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft >are shocking and >hopefully >not an indicator of the condition she was in at >the time of the accident. >But l have to say that if the level of neglect >extended to the systems, >especially the fuel system, the cause of the >incident may easily have >been a >blocked filter. According to a close friend of >David, whom l spoke to >yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at >full power in the climb >out after refuelling. If so the classic case of >power starvation due to a >blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that >the photos show the inline >filter used is the standard glass tube variety. >Blockage of this type of >inline filter has caused many incidents and at >least one written off >Europa. > >Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron >sized mesh. This is way >smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated >by Rotax. I had a >stoppage >due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few >years ago, this led to a >hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed >(thanks for the fire >cover >guys). The filter was partially blocked with >translucent material. It >ran >on the ground but would not feed fuel to the >goverened 5000 rpm of my >AP332 >controller. > >Having thereafter spent a year in a constant >state of fuel feed anxiety l >changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 >micron filter size. To >date >these have proven extremely reliable (100%). > >In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a >version for 1/4in bore fuel >lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, >just a CNC program >change, >the filters would then have a push-on nipple type >end and not require >screw >fit unions (as in my installation). Some >discussion occurred with Andy >Draper about the mod. > >Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got >around to adapting the CNC >code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA >Engineering. > >If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on >GBXS was filter related >(this is speculative but informed on my part) we >should support some >action >which will lead to changes in the use of these >standard glass tube >filters. >A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, >perhaps the Andair >version. > > >I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over >the continued use of the >glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa >flyer, or other aircraft >operator with the same filter type, can supply >information regarding the >use >of these filters it may assist in deciding which >way to go. Information >such as frequency of inspection, frequency of >cleaning, stoppage or >partial >blockage info, leaks, other issues will br >gratefully received and treated >in confidence. Likewise any info showing >satisfactory in service history >is >also welcome. Please post info or email direct to >me. >John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net > >John Wighton >Chief of Stress >Pilatus Aircraft > >-------- >John Wighton >Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 > > >-- >This message has been scanned for viruses and >dangerous content by Houxou, >and is believed to be clean. > > browse Un/Subscription, FAQ, http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List Forums! List Admin. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:00 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Texel coming up this weekend From: "goff" The weather is looking pretty good so G-CHOX is planning to go Friday and return Sunday. Last time I looked there were only a handful of Europas preregisterd. Any more planning on going? It's a wonderful weekend when the weather plays ball. Goff Goff Moore Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407915#407915 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:06 AM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel funnel for Mogas I agree with Ramio - the bigger, the better. We have the largest size available (about 8" in diameter at a guess) and we still have to pour slowly to avoid an overspill. IMHO it is pointless filtering the fuel going into your fuel cans as the internal paint (metal cans) has a tendency to flake off. It should be filtered from the refuelling can or pump when going into the aircraft. Easy for me to say as we have the old style filling system (located on top). Not sure how this works if you have the newer side filling system - thinks you may need to rig a sling to support the funnel on the side of the fuselage with a length of poly tubing extending into the filler. I'm sure other Europa owners have cracked this problem. It is worth mentioning that the fuel cans need to be earthed wherever possible - not so much of a problem with metal cans. I believe one Europa was lost to fire when a spark from can to filler ignited the fuel. I think if you buy an aviation specific funnel (ie: Mr Funnel) it will be made from conductive material but you would lose this benefit if you extend the pipe with poly tubing. However it is relatively easy to earth the filler opening with your finger and then ensure you do the same with fuel can before commencing the fill. I think the problem with static is generally associated with plastic cans - perhaps someone with better knowledge on this issue could comment. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christoph Both Sent: 02 September 2013 13:39 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel funnel for Mogas --> Hello, I wonder what kind of practical size for a FUEL FILETR FUNNEL have proven to be most suitable for the Europa? From your comments it appears more practical to rather pre-filter mogas at the filling station into the clean fuel containers rather than sticking a filter into the fuel fill opening on the EUROPA SX style on the side. More specifically, Aircraft Spruce has 3 models, small, middle and large with 2.5,3.5 and 5 rpm throughput, but significant size differences. Which one would you recommend? I am filling up my AC first time this week=D0 Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada On 13-09-01 8:21 AM, "Carl Pattinson" wrote: > > >Hi All, > >I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial >shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but >it's definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system >before assuming everything is clean. > >If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be >addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do >their job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put >in our tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps). > >In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some >builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of >crud which should never have been there in the first place - I do not >believe that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this >particular issue. > >Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator >setup instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit >builders one available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the >LAA yesterday and they are selling for =A360) . The beauty of the setup >is that any large lumps of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom >of the gascolator bowl and will be drained off when you do your do your >daily fuel checks - very little muck reaches the filter mesh at the top >of the bowl (this is a 120 micron screen). > >We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on >filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs >of a clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate >their own debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off >and if not filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered. > >For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be >possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be >dropped down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any >external sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation. > >Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a >visual warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage. > >Carl Pattinson >G-LABS > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete >Lawless >Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08 >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters > > >Hi John > >I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the >first few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed >cleaning every >5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 >hours caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently >cleaning until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours >the filter now need a clean about every 50 hours. > >My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, >as per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY >FLIGHT. The beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is >going on, all that is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. >Cleaning is very easy you just change the filter screen for a new one >and wipe the inside of the glass. > >I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect >without taking it to bits. > >Pete >Classic #109 Rotax 912UL > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John >Wighton >Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23 >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter >fatality > > >The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and >hopefully not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of >the accident. >But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems, >especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have >been a blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l >spoke to yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power >in the climb out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power >starvation due to a blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the >photos show the inline filter used is the standard glass tube variety. >Blockage of this type of inline filter has caused many incidents and at >least one written off Europa. > >Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is >way smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a >stoppage due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, >this led to a hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks >for the fire cover guys). The filter was partially blocked with >translucent material. It ran on the ground but would not feed fuel to >the goverened 5000 rpm of my >AP332 >controller. > >Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety >l changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. >To date these have proven extremely reliable (100%). > >In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore >fuel lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC >program change, the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end >and not require screw fit unions (as in my installation). Some >discussion occurred with Andy Draper about the mod. > >Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the >CNC code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering. > >If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter >related (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support >some action which will lead to changes in the use of these standard >glass tube filters. >A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair >version. > > >I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the >glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft >operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding >the use of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. >Information such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, >stoppage or partial blockage info, leaks, other issues will br >gratefully received and treated in confidence. Likewise any info >showing satisfactory in service history is also welcome. Please post >info or email direct to me. >John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net > >John Wighton >Chief of Stress >Pilatus Aircraft > >-------- >John Wighton >Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 > > >-- >This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by >Houxou, and is believed to be clean. > > List 7-Day ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:51 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Texel coming up this weekend From: "Roland" I'll be there - weather permitting. But coming from the opposite direction. See you there! Roland PH-ZTI XS Trigear 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407916#407916 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europas - as far as the eye can see! From: Fred Klein Nigel...thanks for posting the photo...fantastic turnout indeed...makes me want to hop in a great silver bird and attend next year...I trust you can guarantee the excellent weather...?...Fred On Sep 2, 2013, at 5:34 AM, nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk wrote: > We had a fantastic turnout for the LAA rally held over this past weekend at Sywell (UK). The flightline was reminiscent of Cranfield 10 or so years back. > We seemed to dominate the show, with at least three on various stands. At one point there were 38 Europas marshaled in two rows - as far as the eye could see. With constant arrivals and departures the true total has yet to be announced. > For those of you unable to attend, here is a picture. > > Nigel > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:57 AM PST US From: "Max Cointe (Free)" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel funnel for Mogas Hi There All, I'm a bit puzzled with this topic or maybe I miss something: never had for the last 42 years any trouble of debris in filters on my (numerous) cars nor with my motor bikes (namely BMW using Bing 64 carbs). Why should have I using the same SP98 carried from the fuel pumps via clean cans (assuming the tank of F-LH is clean after 10 years of service and the pipes are Mogas compatible) ? Max Cointe mcointe@free.fr F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 450 hours F-PLDJ DynAro MCR 4S Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1550 heures -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Christoph Both Envoy : lundi 2 septembre 2013 14:39 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : Re: Europa-List: Fuel funnel for Mogas --> Hello, I wonder what kind of practical size for a FUEL FILETR FUNNEL have proven to be most suitable for the Europa? From your comments it appears more practical to rather pre-filter mogas at the filling station into the clean fuel containers rather than sticking a filter into the fuel fill opening on the EUROPA SX style on the side. More specifically, Aircraft Spruce has 3 models, small, middle and large with 2.5,3.5 and 5 rpm throughput, but significant size differences. Which one would you recommend? I am filling up my AC first time this week Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada On 13-09-01 8:21 AM, "Carl Pattinson" wrote: > > >Hi All, > >I am surprised that anyone ever gets blocked filters after the initial >shakedown. I know it is difficult to clean out tanks after build but >it's definitely worth pumping a few gallons of fuel through the system >before assuming everything is clean. > >If you have dirty fuel in your tanks this is an issue that should be >addressed first rather instead of relying on the fuel filters to do >their job. I accept that some of us have less control over what we put >in our tanks than others (ie: if you are purchasing fuel at the airfield pumps). > >In the early days I recall that clogged filters were an issue for some >builders. The filters were becoming overwhelmed by large amounts of >crud which should never have been there in the first place - I do not >believe that changing the size of the filter mesh would address this >particular issue. > >Personally I never liked the factory system and opted for a gascolator >setup instead - nothing fancy like an Andair, just the cheap kit >builders one available from LAS or Aircraft Spruce (I priced one at the >LAA yesterday and they are selling for 60) . The beauty of the setup >is that any large lumps of crud (or water) tend to settle in the bottom >of the gascolator bowl and will be drained off when you do your do your >daily fuel checks - very little muck reaches the filter mesh at the top >of the bowl (this is a 120 micron screen). > >We are fortunate in that all our fuel is from cans which we insist on >filtering through a fine mesh funnel and we have never found any signs >of a clogged filter. It is worth noting that metal fuel cans generate >their own debris as the internal paint on the cans tends to flake off >and if not filtered would cause problems if not pre filtered. > >For those who have to rely on airfield based supplies if it should be >possible to carry a filter sock (wire or nylon mesh) which could be >dropped down the fuel filler opening to ensure the cleanliness of any >external sources of fuel. This could even be a permanent installation. > >Additionally as a backup, a fuel pressure gauge which would give a >visual warning of low pressure due to a filter blockage. > >Carl Pattinson >G-LABS > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete >Lawless >Sent: 01 September 2013 11:08 >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters > > >Hi John > >I have the original glass filters and am very happy with them. In the >first few hours of a new Europa they do get blocked and mine needed >cleaning every >5 hours or so for the first 25 hours and on one occasion at about 10 >hours caused fuel starvation on the climb out. Then less frequently >cleaning until the tank settled down at about 100 hours. At 550 hours >the filter now need a clean about every 50 hours. > >My filters are installed under the seats protected by a Perspex cover, >as per the original Classic layout. I inspect them BEFORE EVERY >FLIGHT. The beauty of the glass container is that you can see what is >going on, all that is needed is to pull up the seat cushion and look. >Cleaning is very easy you just change the filter screen for a new one >and wipe the inside of the glass. > >I would be very reluctant to install a filter unit I could not inspect >without taking it to bits. > >Pete >Classic #109 Rotax 912UL > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John >Wighton >Sent: 01 September 2013 09:23 >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Europa-List: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter >fatality > > >The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and >hopefully not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of >the accident. >But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems, >especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have >been a blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l >spoke to yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power >in the climb out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power >starvation due to a blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the >photos show the inline filter used is the standard glass tube variety. >Blockage of this type of inline filter has caused many incidents and at >least one written off Europa. > >Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is >way smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a >stoppage due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, >this led to a hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks >for the fire cover guys). The filter was partially blocked with >translucent material. It ran on the ground but would not feed fuel to >the goverened 5000 rpm of my >AP332 >controller. > >Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety >l changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. >To date these have proven extremely reliable (100%). > >In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore >fuel lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC >program change, the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end >and not require screw fit unions (as in my installation). Some >discussion occurred with Andy Draper about the mod. > >Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the >CNC code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering. > >If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter >related (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support >some action which will lead to changes in the use of these standard >glass tube filters. >A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair >version. > > >I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the >glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft >operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding >the use of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. >Information such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, >stoppage or partial blockage info, leaks, other issues will br >gratefully received and treated in confidence. Likewise any info >showing satisfactory in service history is also welcome. Please post >info or email direct to me. >John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net > >John Wighton >Chief of Stress >Pilatus Aircraft > >-------- >John Wighton >Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407837#407837 > > >-- >This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by >Houxou, and is believed to be clean. > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:30 AM PST US From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europas - as far as the eye can see! Of course Fred .......I'll have a word with the "big man" ;-) Nigel On 02/09/2013 15:04, Fred Klein wrote: > Snip .....makes me want to hop in a great silver bird and attend next year...I trust you can guarantee the excellent weather...?...Fred > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:43 AM PST US From: Gary Leinberger Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filters I am using automotive gas inline filters with automotive plastic inserts. I too check them very regularly. The problem of not being able to see if the bottom of the fuel filter is clogged, or if there is transparent material is a real problem. I use a small metal camping mirror that just fits beneath my filters under the pilot seat. Then if you shine a flashlight on the glass it becomes very obvious if there is foreign material underneath. Without the mirror you can't see if there is gunk under the filter. The light helps you see the transparent material. I guess I could permanently put the mirror there, but I also use the mirror to see my fuel gauge that is just to the right of my right arm. I have put a lighted strip behind the gas line, and with the lights and the mirror can easily see the level of fuel. While I have an inline fuel totalizier which has proved extremely accurate, I still like to see the actual level in flight since it only measures flow used. If there is a leak between the gas tank and the totalizier, you could be empty and still show fuel in the tank based only on usage. Particularly when the fuel is low, it is hard for me to see the level of fuel in the gas gauge line. (I also have a neck problem that makes it hard to twist to see the fuel gauge when the level is low.) I have cut my flight planning range to 2 hour flights, since I generally fly IFR and want an extra reserve if I get caught in a headwind and decreasing ceilings which then requires some hunting (and extra gas) for a good airport to tuck into. This also means my safe fuel capacity equals my bladder capacity. (If I wanted to go fast I would have built a 200 mph speedster.) Gary Leinberger N388SG Lancaster, Pa. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:00 AM PST US From: "Frank Mycroft" Subject: Europa-List: Prop balancing Does anyone know of someone in the UK who can statically balance an Arplast PV50 3-bladed propellor. I bought some re-conditioned blades when I damaged my own, but they came with an obsolete hub so I fitted them to my old, and much newer hub, but the result is more out of balance then dynamic balancing can cope with, so I need to start with static balancing. There is no point in trying Arplast as they don't seem to like English speakers and ignore them. Please reply to me direct. Frank Mycroft ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:28 PM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Prop balancing Frank=0AYou can check the balance of each blade with an accurate (to 1/10th gram) balance.=0AMake a jig to carry the blade pivoted about the centre o f the prop, then weigh each blade moment=0Aat a point somewhere around 60% radius. Should be equal of course.=0ASimplest knife edge pivot would be a p air of nails through the wooden jig.=0AJerry Davis printed a better descrip tion and diagram but I lost it years ago {{:-(=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____ ___________________________=0A From: Frank Mycroft =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 2 September 2013, 18:58=0ASubje ct: Europa-List: Prop balancing=0A =0A=0A=0A =0ADoes anyone know of someone in the UK who can =0Astatically balance an Arplast PV50 3-bladed propellor .- I bought some =0Are-conditioned blades when I damaged my own, but they came with an obsolete hub =0Aso I fitted them to my old, and much newer hu b, but the result is more out of =0Abalance then dynamic balancing can cope with, so I need to start with static =0Abalancing.- There is no point in trying Arplast as they don't seem to like =0AEnglish speakers and ignore t ======= ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:48 PM PST US From: Andrew Sarangan Subject: Europa-List: Spar socket hole enlargement The manual says to open up the port spar socket hole to 1" on one side only, presumably the side facing the seatback. So why not the other side? If the sockets are non structural, it would seem odd to sandwich its plate between the bolt head and the spar bushing. What am I missing here? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.