Europa-List Digest Archive

Fri 09/20/13


Total Messages Posted: 6



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:41 AM - toroids for vhf comms aerial cable (Rowland Carson)
     2. 02:23 AM - Re: toroids for vhf comms aerial cable (Frans Veldman)
     3. 02:37 AM - Re: toroids for vhf comms aerial cable (Carl Pattinson)
     4. 02:43 AM - Re: toroids for vhf comms aerial cable (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
     5. 09:20 AM - =?Windows-1252?Q?Re:__Re:_Europa-List:_Re:_Europa-List:_Instr?= 	=?Windows-1252?Q?ument_Panel_Sub_Panel_Setup=85..Runners=3F_? (Bud Yerly)
     6. 10:54 AM - Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Alan Carter)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:41:19 AM PST US
    From: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson@gmail.com>
    Subject: toroids for vhf comms aerial cable
    Annex C of my manual calls out 4-off toroids to fit on the RG-58 coax cable adjacent to the dipole tapes. The part number given is Philips 4330 030 34420, but this now appears to be made of unobtainium. Does anyone know of an equivalent ferric toroid currently available? RS list hundreds; obviously it needs to have a central hole of a suitable size for RG-58 (or probably RG-400 in my case) to pass through, but what about the other dimensions, and the magnetic characteristics? It's not clear whether the toroids are fitted to act as a filter, as tuning, or as a balun. If, as I suspect, the latter, the magnetic characteristics are likely to be more critical. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:23:50 AM PST US
    From: Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl>
    Subject: Re: toroids for vhf comms aerial cable
    On 09/20/2013 10:34 AM, Rowland Carson wrote: > RS list hundreds; obviously it needs to have a central hole of a suitable size for RG-58 (or probably RG-400 in my case) to pass through, but what about the other dimensions, and the magnetic characteristics? It's not clear whether the toroids are fitted to act as a filter, as tuning, or as a balun. If, as I suspect, the latter, the magnetic characteristics are likely to be more critical. The torroids are there do make it clear to the electrons where the border is between the outer surface of the coax and the antenna leg connected to it. Without the torroids it is just one long piece of conductor. It is not that critical though, but without these torroids you will get more radiation from the cable itself and it will pick up more noise from the surroundings of the cable, and since this is an airplane packed with lots of electronic stuff you will want to prevent that. The magnetic properties of the torroids are critical indeed. I don't have a list or manual, part numbers have been disappeared from memory long time ago, but you obviously need to find something suitable for the intended frequency range (100-150 MHz). Some googling is in order here. Or ask a local radio amateur club, the popular 2m-band (144 MHz) is close to the aircraft frequencies and what will work for them will work for you too. Changes are that someone has a box full of these things on his bench and is happy to share a few. As an alternative you can coil up a part of the coax close to the antenna, but this is heavier. Frans


    Message 3


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    Time: 02:37:52 AM PST US
    From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: toroids for vhf comms aerial cable
    As I recall Rowland, any old toroid is suitable. I think we used ones sourced from Maplin or Tandy and they appear to work fine. Being a non-technical type I haven't got an idea if the exact specification was critical. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland Carson Sent: 20 September 2013 09:34 Subject: Europa-List: toroids for vhf comms aerial cable --> <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> Annex C of my manual calls out 4-off toroids to fit on the RG-58 coax cable adjacent to the dipole tapes. The part number given is Philips 4330 030 34420, but this now appears to be made of unobtainium. Does anyone know of an equivalent ferric toroid currently available? RS list hundreds; obviously it needs to have a central hole of a suitable size for RG-58 (or probably RG-400 in my case) to pass through, but what about the other dimensions, and the magnetic characteristics? It's not clear whether the toroids are fitted to act as a filter, as tuning, or as a balun. If, as I suspect, the latter, the magnetic characteristics are likely to be more critical. in friendship Rowland | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... | <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson


    Message 4


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    Time: 02:43:07 AM PST US
    From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: toroids for vhf comms aerial cable
    Rowland=0Athey are to form a balun, Fergus Kyle will probably know the answ ers you want,=0Ahe won't be up yet (Ontario)=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______ _________________________=0A From: Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl> =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Friday, 20 September 2013, 10:23 =0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: toroids for vhf comms aerial cable=0A =0A=0A-- =0AOn 09/20/2013 10:34 AM, Rowland Carson wrote:=0A> --> Europa-List messag e posted by: Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson@gmail.com>=0A=0A> RS list hundre ds; obviously it needs to have a central hole of a suitable size for RG-58 (or probably RG-400 in my case) to pass through, but what about the other d imensions, and the magnetic characteristics? It's not clear whether the tor oids are fitted to act as a filter, as tuning, or as a balun. If, as I susp ect, the latter, the magnetic characteristics are likely to be more critica l.=0A=0AThe torroids are there do make it clear to the electrons where the =0Aborder is between the outer surface of the coax and the antenna leg=0Aco nnected to it. Without the torroids it is just one long piece of=0Aconducto r.=0AIt is not that critical though, but without these torroids you will ge t=0Amore radiation from the cable itself and it will pick up more noise fro m=0Athe surroundings of the cable, and since this is an airplane packed wit h=0Alots of electronic stuff you will want to prevent that.=0AThe magnetic properties of the torroids are critical indeed. I don't=0Ahave a list or ma nual, part numbers have been disappeared from memory=0Along time ago, but y ou obviously need to find something suitable for the=0Aintended frequency r ange (100-150 MHz). Some googling is in order here.=0AOr ask a local radio amateur club, the popular 2m-band (144 MHz) is=0Aclose to the aircraft freq uencies and what will work for them will work=0Afor you too. Changes are th at someone has a box full of these things on=0Ahis bench and is happy to sh are a few.=0A=0AAs an alternative you can coil up a part of the coax close ===========


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:20:47 AM PST US
    From: "Bud Yerly" <budyerly@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: ndows-1252?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_Re:_Europa-List:_Re:_Europa-List:_Instr?=
    =?Windows-1252?Q?ument_Panel_Sub_Panel_Setup=85..Runners=3F_? Jeremy, Tony and all, I have tried the pivot out panels in RVs and Europas and frankly the system works, however the length of todays instruments always seem to prevent the tilt out from being satisfactory. A slide out panel or whole panel is much more convenient. I prefer to build the panel so that when the outer support screws on the panel edge are unscrewed, the entire panel shell is free to detach as a unit. Of course I have a through the firewall access panel that I learned from Pete and Bob at Flight Crafters and further refined the screw pattern, metal selection, attachments, and sealing technique to assure a fire resistant and fully sealed panel. I fully understand those who prefer not to put an access hole in the panel for fear of fire/smoke incursion and the sealing that is necessary to prevent such a problem. If you don't want to learn to do it, I understand. .060 aluminum and .016 stainless, and some high temp sealant is what is needed form material, and a good steady hand with a diamond wheel on a dremel to cut the hole so the phenolic panel has minimum gap. Rivet the stainless to the cut panel after fit and it is a door ready to go. The back of the panel is equipped with CPC screw type plugs and D subs as appropriate. The cowl and access cover take longer to detach than the instrument panel. Typically the panel is ten screws, 4 D subs and three CPC circular connectors, and the quick disconnect pitot and static. The whole panel comes out and on to the bench for upgrades and testing. I have never found a reason to open my panel and just look. If it's broke, you built it so fix it. During an annual inspection, I routinely pull my panel and check my busses, through panel mounts and wire bundles for any upgrades I would like. It makes experimenting and maintenance of components a breeze. The trick is making sure the brakes, throttle etc. do not need to be removed. The high top fuselage has just enough height that the panel can be lifted over the brakes, throttle etc. in a trigear or mono. In a low top, I can unscrew six screws and drop my throttle and brake handles down to easily clear the panel. We have it down pat when removing, just pull aft an inch to check you didn't accidently leave a plug attached, then pull the panel back four inches, rotate the panel left side back and down to clear the canopy bow and remove. Carry to the bench and work. Make some extension plugs and put the panel on the bench next to the plane and troubleshoot away. Should one component fail such as the prop controller or autopilot, I can see the desire to pull out the front and then reach around and try to disconnect the D sub connector from the front, but in practice, I just found it not worth the time. Pull the firewall access panel and unplug and pull the whole thing out. Less of a chance of breaking wires and more convenience for me. I also don' t have to deal with excessively long and tediously folded service loops to work the panel. In the RV series I have found that the pull out on drawer slides to be quite nice as the bottom of the panel is open to allow you to work the service loops. I still hate to crawl into the RV8 and lay upside down to work on something. I am too stiff for that sort of thing, so I make the whole panel to pull. I have done it in two RVs, a Zenith and all the Europas I have built. Regards, Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeremy Fisher<mailto:jffisher@gmail.com> To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 9:54 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Instrument Panel Sub Panel Setup=85..Runners? Graham, Do you mean like this? Photo is of my instrument panel ready for installations. Both sides are hinged, with 2 Camloc fasteners for each side; both are hinged, with one shown closed and the other open. Opening one takes 10 seconds. Jerry Fisher On Sep 17, 2013, at 5:00 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote: Tony excellent idea to think about this. I've been working on an old Classic and several times wanted to check things behind the panel. Accessibility on a standard plans built Europa is a long way from being good. Factory was so stressed at design time that they laft all that to we builders and there were a few good ideas tried. One I haven't seen is a hinge at the bootom of the panel. Most important is to keep it light, early panel installations with a lot of steam age stuff in them weighed anything up to 40lbs! Digital stuff has made it a lot easier and engine management systems ease the workload of single crew VFR. Graham ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com<mailto:tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>> To: "europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>" <europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>> Sent: Tuesday, 17 September 2013, 1:23 Subject: Europa-List: Instrument Panel Sub Panel Setup=85..Runners? <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com<mailto:tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>> Gidday, I am interested in advice on what might be considered the best setup for the instrument panel, in terms of ease of maintenance, removal etc. I am wondering if the main sub panel could be removable forward on runners, like drawer sliders? Big aircraft have these, as was my misfortune one day to realise when I grabbed the two foot rests D rings either side of the panel and pulled to give my shoulders a stretch, but little did I know that during maintenance the locking screws had not been actuated, and the whole panel came forward up to the back of the control column! I looked at the other guy with shock, and just gently eased it back in place, hoping nothing had, or would disconnect in the process. Yes, we were airborne! It left an indelible memory, but has inspired me as to whether such a setup could work on the Europa. This idea is borne out of imagining how unwieldy it might be with all the weight aft of the sub panel, to remove it forward easily, especially with plumbing a! ttached. Runners would make it a lot easier. If there is other options for these sub panels I'd appreciate knowing, or whether my anxieties are unfounded. Thanks in anticipation. Regards Tony Renshaw Sydney =======ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Lis t<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>" target="_blank">htronics.com/" = --> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> face="courier new,courier"><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:54:41 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Sub Panels....thanks
    From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net>
    Hi Tony. My panel which I did not build has the six main instruments in a sub panel secured by six screws, the chap who built it did not use anchor bolts, when I try to remove the panel, the screws just went round and round, a nice sub panel that you can't remove, just my luck. However if I ever get it off there is always the opportunity of hinging it from the bottom, provided they is the clearance for the instruments as they rotate through the 90 degrees,? I see some postings of all electric panels on the forum, but I can not see any room to mount the stand by vacuum driven instrument, the minimum would be a Turn and Slip, Altimeter and Compass to maintain control if you are very very good ,just the last two but only in calm air. You could have Main Electric instruments and battery electric standby, say an ipad horizon, but in flight some strange things can happen, so I would not rely on this and use vacuum for stand by. VFR is the rule , but there could be a time when circumstances put you in cloud or on top of cloud, and without instruments in cloud or over the sea in poor visibilty I know you would be out of control within less than 3 minutes. I would have thought the LAA would have something laid out on just what you must have,??? Regards. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408902#408902




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