---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/29/13: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:32 AM - Re: Re: Bliss (Carl Pattinson) 2. 02:21 AM - Re: Re: Bliss (David Joyce) 3. 02:31 AM - Re: Re: Bliss (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 4. 03:11 AM - Re: Re: Bliss (Carl Pattinson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:01 AM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Bliss Hi Goff, Apologies for the delay in responding - your email was lost in the pile of Europa related stuff that was in my mailbox. I have been trying (off and on) to get good in cockpit quality for the last 5 years. It seems that as soon as you mount a camera to the aircraft structure this picks up the vibrations on the airframe. I have used a Sanyo video cam, a VIO POV camera and latterly my Canon EOS 650. Both the Sanyo and the Canon have Image stabilisers and are very effective in reducing the camera shake - the problem is they both have relatively narrow lens angles (so you can't get the whole cockpit in frame). I did buy a wide angle adapter for the Sanyo but it isn't that wide angle and degrades the image quality. In all other respects it makes a decent job of in cockpit video. The VIO (http://vio-pov.com/) has a similar really wide angle to the GoPro and the quality is superb but as soon as you attach the lens to anywhere in the cockpit you get bad camera shake. If mounted on my headset (side of ear cup) the shake goes away but as a pilots head scans the horizon frequently its very difficult footage to watch - also the camera is too far forward and you lose the cockpit panorama. The strange image you get with the rotating prop is a bit annoying but nothing I cant live with. I think VIO have since brought out a software fix for this anyway. If not I will definitely look at mounting a piece of ND filter in front of the lens. I have looked at various ways of isolating the vibrations but as yet nothing worked. It seems that the built in stabiliser systems are the only way forward. I believe the latest GoPro cameras have this built in (it may just be in the processing software). Unfortunately I am (or rather was) a professional photographer and tend to be a little more picky than most - so my fault. Now that I am retired I should have more time to look at the problem - im sure there is a simple way of tackling the problem. Again, congratulations on the video footage at Bembridge - I realised that your original footage would have been better quality but was just curious to see how much better the original was. Thanks for getting back to me. Kind regards, Carl -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of goff Sent: 26 September 2013 13:11 Subject: Europa-List: Re: Bliss Carl, Yes I do have the HD original. It's even better than the YouTube posting, which degrades the original a bit. Bob, I'm not sure what you mean by image shake. Do you mean vibration from the prop and the fuselage? The GroPro is mounted to the cabin roof, just aft of the seats. I don't think it has built in image stabilising software, so it must be my smooth flying!! If you mean the absence of prop strobing, that's down to a little neutral density filter popped inside the GoPro case in front of the lens. I cut a piece the size and shape of a one euro coin from a sheet of theatrical lighting filter acetate. Works wonders. Goff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409259#409259 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:21:32 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Bliss Carl, Does your prop need balancing? Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 09:30:52 +0100 "Carl Pattinson" wrote: > > > Hi Goff, > > Apologies for the delay in responding - your email was >lost in the pile of > Europa related stuff that was in my mailbox. > > I have been trying (off and on) to get good in cockpit >quality for the last > 5 years. > > It seems that as soon as you mount a camera to the >aircraft structure this > picks up the vibrations on the airframe. I have used a >Sanyo video cam, a > VIO POV camera and latterly my Canon EOS 650. > > Both the Sanyo and the Canon have Image stabilisers and >are very effective > in reducing the camera shake - the problem is they both >have relatively > narrow lens angles (so you can't get the whole cockpit >in frame). I did buy > a wide angle adapter for the Sanyo but it isn't that >wide angle and degrades > the image quality. In all other respects it makes a >decent job of in cockpit > video. > > The VIO (http://vio-pov.com/) has a similar really wide >angle to the GoPro > and the quality is superb but as soon as you attach the >lens to anywhere in > the cockpit you get bad camera shake. If mounted on my >headset (side of ear > cup) the shake goes away but as a pilots head scans the >horizon frequently > its very difficult footage to watch - also the camera is >too far forward and > you lose the cockpit panorama. The strange image you get >with the rotating > prop is a bit annoying but nothing I cant live with. I >think VIO have since > brought out a software fix for this anyway. If not I >will definitely look at > mounting a piece of ND filter in front of the lens. > > I have looked at various ways of isolating the >vibrations but as yet nothing > worked. It seems that the built in stabiliser systems >are the only way > forward. I believe the latest GoPro cameras have this >built in (it may just > be in the processing software). > > Unfortunately I am (or rather was) a professional >photographer and tend to > be a little more picky than most - so my fault. Now that >I am retired I > should have more time to look at the problem - im sure >there is a simple way > of tackling the problem. > > Again, congratulations on the video footage at Bembridge >- I realised that > your original footage would have been better quality but >was just curious to > see how much better the original was. > > Thanks for getting back to me. > > Kind regards, > Carl > > -----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On >Behalf Of goff > Sent: 26 September 2013 13:11 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Bliss > > > > Carl, > > Yes I do have the HD original. It's even better than the >YouTube posting, > which degrades the original a bit. > > Bob, > > I'm not sure what you mean by image shake. Do you mean >vibration from the > prop and the fuselage? The GroPro is mounted to the >cabin roof, just aft of > the seats. I don't think it has built in image >stabilising software, so it > must be my smooth flying!! > > If you mean the absence of prop strobing, that's down to >a little neutral > density filter popped inside the GoPro case in front of >the lens. I cut a > piece the size and shape of a one euro coin from a sheet >of theatrical > lighting filter acetate. Works wonders. > > Goff > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409259#409259 > > > > > > > > > > > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:31:33 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Bliss Good question David!=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________________ _=0A From: David Joyce =0ATo: europa-list@matron ics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 29 September 2013, 10:20=0ASubject: Re: Europa-Lis idjoyce@doctors.org.uk>=0A=0ACarl, Does your prop need balancing? Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ=0A=0A=0AOn Sun, 29 Sep 2013 09:30:52 +0100=0A"Carl Patt inson" wrote:=0A> --> Europa-List message pos ted by: "Carl Pattinson" =0A> =0A> Hi Goff,=0A > =0A> Apologies for the delay in responding - your email was lost in the p ile of=0A> Europa related stuff that was in my mailbox.=0A> =0A> I have bee n trying (off and on) to get good in cockpit quality for the last=0A> 5 yea rs.=0A> =0A> It seems that as soon as you mount a camera to the aircraft st ructure this=0A> picks up the vibrations on the airframe.- I have used a Sanyo video cam, a=0A> VIO POV camera and latterly my Canon EOS 650.=0A> =0A> Both the Sanyo and the Canon have Image stabilisers and are very effec tive=0A> in reducing the camera shake - the problem is they both have relat ively=0A> narrow lens angles (so you can't get the whole cockpit in frame). I did buy=0A> a wide angle adapter for the Sanyo but it isn't that wide an gle and degrades=0A> the image quality. In all other respects it makes a de cent job of in cockpit=0A> video.=0A> =0A> The VIO (http://vio-pov.com/) ha s a similar really wide angle to the GoPro=0A> and the quality is superb bu t as soon as you attach the lens to anywhere in=0A> the cockpit you get bad camera shake. If mounted on my headset (side of ear=0A> cup) the shake goe s away but as a pilots head scans the horizon frequently=0A> its very diffi cult footage to watch - also the camera is too far forward and=0A> you lose the cockpit panorama. The strange image you get with the rotating=0A> prop is a bit annoying but nothing I cant live with. I think VIO have since=0A> brought out a software fix for this anyway. If not I will definitely look at=0A> mounting a piece of ND filter in front of the lens.=0A> =0A> I have looked at various ways of isolating the vibrations but as yet nothing=0A> w orked. It seems that the built in stabiliser systems are the only way=0A> f orward. I believe the latest GoPro cameras have this built in (it may just =0A> be in the processing software).=0A> =0A> Unfortunately I am (or rather was) a professional photographer and tend to=0A> be a little more picky th an most - so my fault. Now that I am retired I=0A> should have more time to look at the problem - im sure there is a simple way=0A> of tackling the pr oblem.=0A> =0A> Again, congratulations on the video footage at Bembridge - I realised that=0A> your original footage would have been better quality bu t was just curious to=0A> see how much better the original was.=0A> =0A> Th anks for getting back to me.=0A> =0A> Kind regards,=0A> Carl=0A> =0A> ----- Original Message-----=0A> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com=0A> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of goff=0A> Sent: 26 September 2013 13:11=0A> To: europa-list@matronics.com=0A> Subject: Eur fmoore@aviators.net>=0A> =0A> Carl,=0A> =0A> Yes I do have the HD original. It's even better than the YouTube posting,=0A> which degrades the original a bit.=0A> =0A> Bob,=0A> =0A> I'm not sure what you mean by image shake. D o you mean vibration from the=0A> prop and the fuselage? The GroPro is moun ted to the cabin roof, just aft of=0A> the seats. I don't think it has buil t in image stabilising software, so it=0A> must be my smooth flying!!=0A> =0A> If you mean the absence of prop strobing, that's down to a little neut ral=0A> density filter popped inside the GoPro case in front of the lens. I cut a=0A> piece the size and shape of a one euro coin from a sheet of thea trical=0A> lighting filter acetate. Works wonders.=0A> =0A> Goff=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronic s.com/viewtopic.php?p=409259#409259=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A > =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Un/Subscription,=0A> Forums!=0A> Admin.=0A> =0A> =0A> =============== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:11:03 AM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Bliss Ouch ! It depends on which prop you are referring to ' in the last year my Europa has flown with four (yes four!) different props. Someone (who shall remain nameless) keeps ground looping the plane and has trashed 2 Woodcomp props. Its confusing but we put the original Warp prop on for a while so that=92s how I end up with a total of four. Just waiting for the insurance renewal in October ' can=92t imagine what 2 claims for =A33,500 each will do. We have just fitted the most recent replacement Woodcomp SR3000 prop (the third one) which Kevin Dilks picked up at the factory in The Checz Republic last week and it was balanced by them after assembly. Regarding the balance I have one of Mark Burtons dynamic PB3 balancers ' whenever we fit a new prop it is checked for balance and we always manage to get the target into the inner ring ' bullseye (which is classed as very good). So sadly it aint the balance ' wish it was as simple as that. The fact of the matter is that most modern video cameras have stabilisation included as standard and this deals with most vibration associated issues. As it=92s the norm many manufacturers don=92t mention it as a selling point. Im pretty sure the GoPro Hero 3 has an image stabiliser built in. For some reason VIO didn=92t include it in their camera but I am hoping that a simple anti vibration mount will deal with the worst of the vibration and the rest can be processed out when I edit the original footage. I have Sonys Vegas Movie studio to edit my clips and this has camera shake software ' this helps but doesn=92t cure the problem entirely (and degrades the quality). It=92s something I would like to sort out in the future but not top of my list of priorities. From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: 29 September 2013 10:31 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Bliss Good question David! Graham _____ From: David Joyce Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2013, 10:20 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Bliss Carl, Does your prop need balancing? Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 09:30:52 +0100 "Carl Pattinson" wrote: > > Hi Goff, > > Apologies for the delay in responding - your email was lost in the pile of > Europa related stuff that was in my mailbox. > > I have been trying (off and on) to get good in cockpit quality for the last > 5 years. > > It seems that as soon as you mount a camera to the aircraft structure this > picks up the vibrations on the airframe. I have used a Sanyo video cam, a > VIO POV camera and latterly my Canon EOS 650. > > Both the Sanyo and the Canon have Image stabilisers and are very effective > in reducing the camera shake - the problem is they both have relatively > narrow lens angles (so you can't get the whole cockpit in frame). I did buy > a wide angle adapter for the Sanyo but it isn't that wide angle and degrades > the image quality. In all other respects it makes a decent job of in cockpit > video. > > The VIO (http://vio-pov.com/) has a similar really wide angle to the GoPro > and the quality is superb but as soon as you attach the lens to anywhere in > the cockpit you get bad camera shake. If mounted on my headset (side of ear > cup) the shake goes away but as a pilots head scans the horizon frequently > its very difficult footage to watch - also the camera is too far forward and > you lose the cockpit panorama. The strange image you get with the rotating > prop is a bit annoying but nothing I cant live with. I think VIO have since > brought out a software fix for this anyway. If not I will definitely look at > mounting a piece of ND filter in front of the lens. > > I have looked at various ways of isolating the vibrations but as yet nothing > worked. It seems that the built in stabiliser systems are the only way > forward. I believe the latest GoPro cameras have this built in (it may just > be in the processing software). > > Unfortunately I am (or rather was) a professional photographer and tend to > be a little more picky than most - so my fault. Now that I am retired I > should have more time to look at the problem - im sure there is a simple way > of tackling the problem. > > Again, congratulations on the video footage at Bembridge - I realised that > your original footage would have been better quality but was just curious to > see how much better the original was. > > Thanks for getting back to me. > > Kind regards, > Carl > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of goff > Sent: 26 September 2013 13:11 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Bliss > > > Carl, > > Yes I do have the HD original. It's even better than the YouTube posting, > which degrades the original a bit. > > Bob, > > I'm not sure what you mean by image shake. Do you mean vibration from the > prop and the fuselage? The GroPro is mounted to the cabin roof, just aft of > the seats. I don't think it has built in image stabilising software, so it > must be my smooth flying!! > > If you mean the absence of prop strobing, that's down to a little neutral > density filter popped inside the GoPro case in front of the lens. I cut a > piece the size and shape of a one euro coin from a sheet of theatrical > lighting filter acetate. Works wonders. > > Goff > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409259#409259 > > > > > > > > > > > > Un/Subscription, > Forums! > Admin. > > http://forums.matronics  tronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contri======== ======= Europa-List Email Forum - Matronics List Features Navigator to browse utilities such as List Un/Subscription, Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, much much more: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.