Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:26 AM - Re: Battery questions (Tim Ward)
2. 12:37 AM - Re: Very First Solo (Max Cointe (Free))
3. 02:25 AM - Re: Battery questions (Frans Veldman)
4. 02:40 AM - Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight (Groups)
5. 04:52 AM - Re: Battery questions (Christoph Both)
6. 04:55 AM - Re: Battery questions (Christoph Both)
7. 04:58 AM - Re: Battery questions (Christoph Both)
8. 06:25 AM - Re: Re: Very First Solo (Raimo Toivio)
9. 06:34 AM - Re: Battery questions (Frans Veldman)
10. 08:10 AM - Battery questions (Fred Klein)
11. 08:16 AM - Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight (Fred Klein)
12. 09:11 AM - Re: Battery questions (Frans Veldman)
13. 09:15 AM - Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight (Frans Veldman)
14. 09:55 AM - Re: Battery questions (Gerry Holland)
15. 10:04 AM - Re: Battery questions (Fred Klein)
16. 11:06 AM - Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight (Groups)
17. 12:29 PM - Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight (James Kelly)
18. 01:19 PM - Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight (Groups)
19. 01:37 PM - Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight (Robert Borger)
20. 01:46 PM - Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight (Groups)
21. 02:20 PM - Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight (Fred Klein)
22. 11:01 PM - Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
23. 11:05 PM - Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
Fred,
Try a Shorai Lithium iron (not ion) battery. Wonderful, powerful, expensive b
ut brilliant for my Rotax 912s with the old original starter. New technology
! Talk about light weight, small and so powerful!
Cheers,
Tim
See;
Enjoy your Shorai LFX battery!
SHORAI INC.
845 STEWART DR., SUITE C SUNNYVALE, CA 94085
See http://shoraipower.com for full product details and much more... Please u
se the on-site CONTACT form to ask us for help with installation, if needed.
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
Ph 64 3 3515166
Mob 0210640221
> On 1/10/2013, at 12:45 pm, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
>
>
> All,
>
> Are there any Europas flying w/ something other than an Odyssey 680, and w
ould there be a good reason to choose another brand or type?
>
> Experience and insights welcomed,
>
> Fred
>
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Message 2
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Congratulations Marke! I=99m sure you got stars in the eyes at
that very special moment (as I had on my first solo) . Wish you will see
them at every flight
As you know in France everything ends with kisses, should it be between
two captains. Raimo I was told it could be the same in Finland J
Max Cointe
<mailto:mcointe@free.fr> mcointe@free.fr
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours
F-PLDJ Dyn=99A=C3=A9ro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1600 heures
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Raimo
Toivio
Envoy=C3=A9 : lundi 30 septembre 2013 21:00
=C3 : europa-list@matronics.com; 'Marke Toivio'
Objet : Europa-List: Very First Solo
All,
I am proud to let you know my wife soloed a few moments ago very first
time.
Location: EFTP Finland
Time: Z 15.20 =93 15.55 (just before a sun set here)
Plane: Eurostar EV-97 UL w a Rotax 912
Ops: Traffic circuit including four perfect landings
This is *very* Europa relative because she is Europa Owner=C2=B4s quite
a known wife, had flown Europa at least 100 hours from the P2 seat and
will solo our Europa (Mono !!!) sooner or later.
So, no excuses!
This has been my target since 1997.
Because of her very fresh markings in her logbook I will spent an
intensive next night with a captain beside me.
That=C2=B4s new for us. Lucky Me, Lucky She...
Cheers, Raimo Toivio
Europa A2A-ala2OK
Europa XS Mono OH-XRT #417
Updated flight hours /landings: 377 /611
(w a 2nd prop BUT a 1st one is still like a new...sorry)
37500 Lempaala
FINLAND
p +358-3-3753 777
f +358-3-3753 100
<mailto:toivio@fly.to> toivio@fly.to
<http://www.rwm.fi/> www.rwm.fi
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
On 10/01/2013 01:45 AM, Fred Klein wrote:
> Are there any Europas flying w/ something other than an Odyssey 680, and would
there be a good reason to choose another brand or type?
My experience and insight:
First you need to establish how many amp hours you really need.
I have two Odyssey 310's. They each have half the capacity of a 680.
Although I have a switch to put both batteries in parallel, the truth is
that so far I have never needed it. My 914 has started fast and reliable
on just one battery (250 flight hours), and this includes the occasions
where I had to crank excessively due to the hot start problem (which I
have now solved by closing the fuel pump prematurely to empty the carb
bowl before the engine shuts down). I can't believe how much cranking
power there is in a 310.
So, for starting you don't need any larger battery than this.
The 914 is dependant on electrical power (and I believe your engine is
dependant as well). So, you may need to have electrical power when your
alternator dies. If this is the case then you need to do the math and
calculate how long you want to be able to fly with a dead alternator and
how much amp hours are needed for that (and multiply that with two
because of battery aging and other reasons).
Another way to solve this problem is to install two alternators in your
ship. Assuming that you don't want to go beyond this reduncancy, now you
only need your battery to start the engine. It might be that a second
alternator is lighter than a larger battery, so you will save some
weight and it gives some piece of mind that in case of an alternator
failure you don't have to worry about the remaining capacity and charge
state of the battery.
I decided to go that route and have a second alternator installed.
The reason to use two small batteries:
With two alternators and two batteries I could make two totally
independant electrical systems. I have two fuel pumps, each on a
different system. I have two GPS's, both on a different system. I have
CHT gauges and a coolant gauge, both are wired to a different system.
And so forth. In reality it means that one of the electrical systems may
give up the ghost completely, but I will still get home safely.
(I don't want to become stuck at the North Cape or to run out of options
above the Alps or over sea).
Another reason is that I wanted to be able to use the glider wings in
the future. While soaring I would just use one electrical bus (and not
worry about depleting the battery), and save the other battery for
starting up the engine again.
To safe some weight I decided to use only very small batteries. With my
system setup I only need the batteries to start the engine, and to prime
the alternator. I made a provision to connect both systems together in
case of starting problems, but I never needed it so far. (In flight it
is forbidden to interconnect both systems because it defeats the whole
redundancy).
Once in two years I take out the battery of bus B, put the battery of
bus A into bus B, and put a new battery in bus A. (Bus A is used for
starting up the engine). This means that I always have a relatively new
battery for starting, and the "old" battery will get an easy time for
the remainder of its usefull life and will only be used for powering up
the fuel pump before start. It is a cost effective strategy.
About the Lithium things: I have decided against it for various reasons.
Although I have not researched the subject once my ship was ready, there
are a few things I remember:
1) The cell voltage of lithium batteries is different thant that of lead
acid batteries. It means that you will get a somewhat different voltage
than all your avionics was designed for.
2) Lithium batteries have special charging requirements. It means in
reality that you can't connect the alternator and battery in parallel,
but there needs to be some piece of electronics in between. This will
become a weak spot in your ship with no redundancy.
3) Field maintenance will be more difficult. Batteries sometimes die. A
lead acid battery is easier to replace, a motorcycle battery can be
sourced everywhere and will get you home. Also field charging is easier.
4) The technology has not matured yet. Some batteries explode, others
have only few charge/discharge cycles, others require complicate
management systems, and others have a weird discharge curve (with either
too much voltage sag during discharge, or just too little so the end
will come as a sudden surprise).
So, in short:
1) If I want to build a light weight ship with a non electrical power
depenant engine, I would install just a Odyssey 310.
2) If I want to build a light weight ship with an electrical power
dependant engine, I would use two alternators and still a small Odyssey 310.
3) If redundancy is important, I would use two alternators and two small
Odyssey 310's.
In my scenario's there is no place for anything heavier than an Odyssey
310, unless of course I need to have some ballast in the rear of the
ship. Then I would favor a bigger battery over just a piece of dead lead.
Frans
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight |
Sent from my phone
> On 1 Oct 2013, at 00:11, Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>
>
> Congrats! Pictures please! :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Pete
>
>> On Sep 30, 2013, at 6:02 PM, Groups <groups@thegoddards.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Today BWUP the first UL260iS powered Europa was cleared for flight testin
g by the LAA. Hopefully if the weather is favourable BWUP should take to the
air on Sunday. Thanks goes to the following for all their help, support and
guidance:
>> Mark Jones, Galaxy UL engines for the UL260iS
>> Ian Rickard, for all those cad drawings and his support getting the proje
ct going
>> ULPower, for the engine mount using Ian's drawings
>> Neville Eyre, for all his help with the cowls
>> Kevin Dilks for Woodcomp propellor
>> Mark Burton for propellor controller
>> Mike Rudd, LAA inspector who helped get the project going
>> Westgate composites, who created a set of cowls from my hybrid of classic
and Eyre cowls
>> LAA, for allowing the project
>> Phil Hall, inspector and test pilot to be
>>
>>
>>
>> Vince Goddard
>> G-BWUP
>> Europa UL260iS Swiss tailwheel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
Fred,
I have a Classic mount not allowing the heavy duty starter for the 912ULS.
Voltage stability during cranking is essential. So I decided to have
firewall forward a "Ballistic" 16 cell Lithium-Iron Battery cleared for
ATV's, large displacement motorcycles obtainable at any of those stores.
While the capacity for the largest obtainable model (16 cell) is only 9AH,
many comments online point to the fact that it holds cranking voltage
close to open cell voltage (13.4 Volts) while many OPB batteries drop as
much as to 10 Volts. Short term cranking amps are rated at 500A, the Rotax
starter takes only 60-70 amps.
I also saved 12 lbs weight, so the battery could be installed on the
firewall forward footwell Port side, effectively balancing out the extra
12 lbs extra weight for the Woodcomp SR3000/2 blade. The 2 blade saved me
another 10 lbs up front. B&W settles at 59.95 at 875lbs with a GRT Sport
plus conventional gauges. The 2-blade also has much less inertia when
starting, staying well below 3 bladed props, lowering kick back tendencies.
Because of the small starter and higher reported probability of kickback I
switched to the new fly wheel and new start retarding E-Modules.
Having logged 20+ test flying hours last week I noticed that the engine
cranks well. I compared the old modules with the new, the old being not
bad worth the new flywheel, but noticeable rougher. With the new modules
there is absolutely no kickback tendency and when shutting down I let her
settle on Right Magneto setting (one Module) for 10 seconds and she shuts
down without kicking. It is essential to do both mechanical and pneumatic
carb balancing. It needs to be done at different RPM. Smallest changes in
the linkages disturb a smooth operation. The Woodcomp came with custom
made Classic spinner and was already balanced at the factory. One less
thing to worry. Just bolts on.
The Ballistic battery comes with a special charging unit, quickly
recognized coming from the Radio Control market, weights very little and
also has cell balancing capacity which they say to apply once in a while
to lengthen the life of the battery. Otherwise they say it works well with
all existing charging /regulator units for cars, motorcycles, etc. It
recharges fast at 5 Amps and can even be operated in the field directly
from a car battery as it pushed the voltage up to where it is needed, up
to 10 cells (20 Volts). Max operating temps for the battery is 60 degree
celsius. I have an in cowling air temp sensor which indicates, with
classic installation, only a 10 degree celsius elevated air temperature (I
have no cold air inlet installed to save further 5 lbs weight - the
conical carbs such air right inside the cowling. After shut down it is
essential to open the 2 top cowling hatches to keep the under cowling air
temps at app. 40-45 degrees max. The battery was also wrapped in heat
shield material obtainable from race car stores.
So far it works. But you might notice I did put it in from of the
firewall, 787 permitting
Cheers,
Christoph Both
#223 912ULS, Flying since SEPT 19, 20 hrs
Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada
On 13-09-30 8:45 PM, "Fred Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
>
>All,
>
>Are there any Europas flying w/ something other than an Odyssey 680, and
>would there be a good reason to choose another brand or type?
>
>Experience and insights welcomed,
>
>Fred
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
Lots of extra weight in the footwell, though. 29lb more than with a
lithium having the same cranking capacity
Christoph
On 13-10-01 3:54 AM, "Bob Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Hi! Fred, Answer .......two Odyssey 680's on the passenger footwell in
>parallel. (initially prompted to get the Jabiru 3300 six cylinder to
>crank)
>now in use with the 914 and a heavy duty starter is totally an instant
>start. Stop fiddling on the edge and just go for it .
>Regards
>Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein
>Sent: 01 October 2013 00:46
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Battery questions
>
>
>All,
>
>Are there any Europas flying w/ something other than an Odyssey 680, and
>would there be a good reason to choose another brand or type?
>
>Experience and insights welcomed,
>
>Fred
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
Tim,
See my comments to Fred ' You were actually the Europa builder inspiring
me to go for the iron-lithium, having your combination of engine/starter.
So far an absolute delight. The Odyssee 680 is now in my friends BMW RT 115
0.
Christoph
From: Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz<mailto:ward.t@xtra.co.nz>>
ropa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>>
ist@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Battery questions
Fred,
Try a Shorai Lithium iron (not ion) battery. Wonderful, powerful, expensive
but brilliant for my Rotax 912s with the old original starter. New technol
ogy! Talk about light weight, small and so powerful!
Cheers,
Tim
See;
Enjoy your Shorai LFX battery!
SHORAI INC.
845 STEWART DR., SUITE C SUNNYVALE, CA 94085
See http://shoraipower.comfor full product details and much more... Please
use the on-site CONTACT form to ask us for help with installation, if neede
d.
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t@xtra.co.nz<mailto:ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
Ph 64 3 3515166
Mob 0210640221
On 1/10/2013, at 12:45 pm, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com<mailto:fklein
@orcasonline.com>> wrote:
o:fklein@orcasonline.com>>
All,
Are there any Europas flying w/ something other than an Odyssey 680, and wo
uld there be a good reason to choose another brand or type?
Experience and insights welcomed,
==
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Very First Solo |
I passed my skills test 20 years ago and later
several of them.
Still I only remember my first solo.
That was a moment when the skies opened.
Later, it has been more or less replaying with
more tunes.
Wonderful of course but not so orgasmic any more.
Raimo
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: spcialeffects
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 11:43 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Very First Solo
<spcialeffects@aol.com>
Congratulations, now multiply that feeling by
1,000,000 and that's how it feels when you pass
your skill's test
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409501#409501
browse
Un/Subscription,
FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
Forums!
List Admin.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
On 10/01/2013 01:54 PM, Christoph Both wrote:
> Lots of extra weight in the footwell, though. 29lb more than with a
> lithium having the same cranking capacity
This lithium iron battery may be a good battery indeed. (I just visited
the website) However, the pitfall here is that the manufacturer
specifies cranking power. In the FAQ of their website they explain that
the actual amp/hr rating is only one third. So, while a 18A/hr
lithium-iron battery may have more cranking power than an 18A/hr lead
acid battery, it has only 1/3 of the slow discharge capability. This
means that if your alternator dies, and you need 6 Amps to keep your
ship flying, you can't do this for three hours (as you would with a lead
acid battery of 18A/hr) but only for one hour.
It isn't bad, but certainly something you will want to know before the
unthinkable happens. If you want to have the same real amp/hours as with
your lead acid battery, I wonder how much the saving in weight would be.
Futhermore, I get the impression that they are not really that
enthousiastic about using standard alternators in parallel with the
battery. I see a lot of talking about recharging afterwards rather than
while driving. This may be because they market towards racers of course.
And Lithium batteries are not self balancing like lead acid batteries.
You will have to use balancing equipment to keep the battery in good shape.
Frans
Message 10
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| Subject: | Battery questions |
Bob, Tim, Christoph, and Frans...thank you for your thoughtful and detailed responses
to my question.
I should have given more detail w/ my question...my engine is a 140 hp MPEFI engine
by RAM Performance which is based on the Subaru...I have been using Fig.
Z-19 from Bob Nuckolls' AeroElectric Connection, an electrical layout intended
for a "Dual Battery, Single Alternator, Electronic Controlled Fuel Injection
Engine", as a guide. Following it will build in the redundancy which Frans speaks
of except for the single alternator...a shortcoming to be compensated for
by using higher Amp/hr batteries which will be swapped out annually or bi-annually
as Frans suggests.
Additional built-in redundancy derives from dual fuel pumps, back up battery for
my EFIS, back up, independent GPS, and duplicate circuitry in the ECU.
In my case, for weight and balance considerations, my batteries will be aft, and
at this stage of the game, it appears that lightweight batteries would not necessarily
be beneficial.
...onward...
Fred
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight |
On Oct 1, 2013, at 2:39 AM, Groups wrote:
> <image.jpeg>
>
> <image.jpeg>
> Sent from my phone
>
>> On 1 Oct 2013, at 00:11, Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Congrats! Pictures please! :-)
Wow...what a sweet, straightforward, and seemingly SIMPLE engine installation...Fred
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
On 10/01/2013 05:10 PM, Fred Klein wrote:
> I should have given more detail w/ my question...my engine is a 140
> hp MPEFI engine by RAM Performance which is based on the Subaru...I
> have been using Fig. Z-19 from Bob Nuckolls' AeroElectric Connection,
> an electrical layout intended for a "Dual Battery, Single Alternator,
> Electronic Controlled Fuel Injection Engine", as a guide. Following
> it will build in the redundancy which Frans speaks of except for the
> single alternator...a shortcoming to be compensated for by using
> higher Amp/hr batteries which will be swapped out annually or
> bi-annually as Frans suggests.
Is it really not possible to get an additional alternator in it? EFI
tends to use quite some electrical power, and with batteries alone the
flight won't last very long.
> In my case, for weight and balance considerations, my batteries will
> be aft, and at this stage of the game, it appears that lightweight
> batteries would not necessarily be beneficial.
Don't worry about constructing weight aft. I have both batteries aft,
but also have the strobe unit behind the D-panel, the ELT-unit, the
Flarm/ADS-B/Wifi antenna's and transreceivers, I could also have put the
transponder in the tail (except for the control head), you can put a HID
landing light in the fin, etc. If you need to get more weight aft, there
are plenty of opportunities without having to resort to dead lead or
even lead acid batteries. ;-) And yes I like to have the CofG near the
aft limit. ;-)
Thinking about it, there is another possibility for having reserve
electrical power for single alternator setups. A non-rechargable battery
for just the EFI is also an option. Non-rechargable batteries are able
to hold much more power per weight unit than their rechargable cousins.
There exist alkaline power packs for remote electrical fences which hold
quite some amp/hours in a small package, but of course they lack
cranking power and rechargability. But they have a lot of power in the
package, just what you need if you need to keep the EFI going. It is
just a thought that this might be more weight efficient than lead acid
batteries.
Frans
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight |
On 10/01/2013 05:15 PM, Fred Klein wrote:
> Wow...what a sweet, straightforward, and seemingly SIMPLE engine installation...Fred
Except that it is upside down. Luckily I have a laptop and I can easily
turn the laptop upside down. With my iPad or cell phone I tried it too,
but it doesn't help as it turns the picture upside down again by itself.
The only solution then is to stand on my head to look at the picture but
I guess I'm becoming too old for this.
Frans
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
I have a small Ballistic battery in an vintage aircraft to power radio.
No electrics and hand swung.
It's performance is excellent. Several top things about it.
Small
Dimensions : 61mm (L) x 61mm (W) x 112mm (H)
Dimensions : 2.5" (L) x 2.5" (W) x 4.25" (H)
Lightweight.
10% loss of charge over 1 year when stored.
Mine is the 4 Cell version of the EVO 2 and has following
characteristics:
Weight: 444 grams (.979 lbs.)
Voltage (Charged): 13.6V
Amperage: 2.3 Amp/Hour
Lead Acid Equivalent Amperage: 8 Pb-eq/Ah
Burst Cranking Amps: 135amps
Operating Environment: -18=B0C (0=B0=B0F) to 60=B0C (140=B0F)
Ordered mine via US EBay and imported to UK. The delivery costs were OK
for the benefit.
Take a look:
http://www.ballisticparts.com/products/batteries/batteries.php
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
gholland@content-stream.co.uk
+44 (0)7808 402404
White Ox Mead Airstrip, Bath. England
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
On Oct 1, 2013, at 9:11 AM, Frans Veldman wrote:
> Is it really not possible to get an additional alternator in it? EFI
> tends to use quite some electrical power, and with batteries alone the
> flight won't last very long.
> Thinking about it, there is another possibility for having reserve
> electrical power for single alternator setups. A non-rechargable
battery
> for just the EFI is also an option. Non-rechargable batteries are able
> to hold much more power per weight unit than their rechargable
cousins.
Frans..as usual, you raise excellent questions along with innovative
answers.
As one who has gone far afield from the standard build, I nonetheless
have a "comfort zone" and endeavor to stay within it...for me to add a
second alternator seems like a daunting task with potential unintended
consequences. I seem to recall reading about or having a conversation w/
an A & P about differences between automotive and aircraft
alternators...the salient point being that (for some reason) the
automotive alternators are more reliable...but I speculate.
My EFIS (Dynon Skyview) has a back up battery module...and, for
simplicity's sake, along with accepting that electronics is NOT my
strong suit...I'll rely upon my mantra about "managing the degree of
novelty", an arguably absurd claim given my decisions on my firewall
forward set up.
Fred
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight |
Try this one
Vince
G-BWUP
Sent from my iPad
> On 1 Oct 2013, at 17:15, Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl> wrote:
>
>
>> On 10/01/2013 05:15 PM, Fred Klein wrote:
>>
>> Wow...what a sweet, straightforward, and seemingly SIMPLE engine installa
tion...Fred
>
> Except that it is upside down. Luckily I have a laptop and I can easily
> turn the laptop upside down. With my iPad or cell phone I tried it too,
> but it doesn't help as it turns the picture upside down again by itself.
> The only solution then is to stand on my head to look at the picture but
> I guess I'm becoming too old for this.
>
> Frans
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight |
Hi Vince,
I've just bought G-BWEG she's a taildragger the same as
your's. I haven't flown her yet although I've flown in her do you have any
tips on ground handling ?
Keep in touch Vince.
Best wishes
Jim
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 7:03 PM, Groups <groups@thegoddards.com> wrote:
> Try this one
>
>
> Vince
> G-BWUP
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 1 Oct 2013, at 17:15, Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 10/01/2013 05:15 PM, Fred Klein wrote:
> >>
> >> Wow...what a sweet, straightforward, and seemingly SIMPLE engine
> installation...Fred
> >
> > Except that it is upside down. Luckily I have a laptop and I can easily
> > turn the laptop upside down. With my iPad or cell phone I tried it too,
> > but it doesn't help as it turns the picture upside down again by itself.
> > The only solution then is to stand on my head to look at the picture but
> > I guess I'm becoming too old for this.
> >
> > Frans
> >
> >
> ===================================
> ===================================
> ===================================
> ===================================
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color"#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List</a>
> http://forums.matronics.com</a>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
>
> </b></font></pre>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight |
Hello Jim,
I have not flown an Europa yet so can not give you any tips. I do have over a hundred
hours on Auster, Cub and Thruster tailwheel and the ground handling does
not seem too difficult. The test pilot Phil Hall did comment that BWUP handled
very nicely on the ground and the proof will be now on Saturday when she flies
for the first time in over 5 years.
Weight wise BWUP has also gone on a huge diet losing nearly 70 pounds and not comes
in at 870 pounds 59.77 inches. Not sure how this compares to other europa's?
Vince
Sent from my iPad
> On 1 Oct 2013, at 20:29, James Kelly <europajimkelly@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Vince,
> I've just bought G-BWEG she's a taildragger the same as your's.
I haven't flown her yet although I've flown in her do you have any tips on
ground handling ?
>
> Keep in touch Vince.
> Best wishes
> Jim
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight |
Vince,
Very good looking aircraft. The engine installation looks quite simple and professional.
Can't wait to hear how she flies!
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:39 AM, Groups <groups@thegoddards.com> wrote:
<image.jpeg>
<image.jpeg>
Sent from my phone
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight |
Hello Fred,
Yes a simple air cooled fuel injected 107 bhp engine which takes an hour or so
to remove and about the same to refit. Originally I had the engine mounted on
the Europa using a 912 compatible mount, this was a little clunky so ULPower produced
a dedicated mount which took only half a day to swap over.
Ta
Vince
Sent from my iPad
> On 1 Oct 2013, at 16:15, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
>
> Wow...what a sweet, straightforward, and seemingly SIMPLE engine installation...Fred
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight |
Vince...what information can you share regarding your engine's installed weight?...Fred
On Oct 1, 2013, at 1:44 PM, Groups wrote:
> Yes a simple air cooled fuel injected 107 bhp engine which takes an hour or so
to remove and about the same to refit. Originally I had the engine mounted on
the Europa using a 912 compatible mount, this was a little clunky so ULPower
produced a dedicated mount which took only half a day to swap over.
>
> Ta
>
> Vince
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 1 Oct 2013, at 16:15, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
>>
>> Wow...what a sweet, straightforward, and seemingly SIMPLE engine installation...Fred
Message 22
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| Subject: | Official Europa-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Europa-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Europa-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
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Download Via FTP
----------------
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Download Via Web
----------------
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******************************************************************************
Europa-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List.
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Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result
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Europa-List Policy Statement
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polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
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Message 23
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| Subject: | Official Europa-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Europa-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Europa-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Europa-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Europa-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Europa-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Europa-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Europa-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Europa-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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