Europa-List Digest Archive

Wed 10/02/13


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:11 AM - Re: Battery questions (kees de bussy)
     2. 02:14 AM - Re: Re: Battery questions (David Joyce)
     3. 02:26 AM - Re: Re: Battery questions (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
     4. 06:04 AM - Re: Battery questions (h&jeuropa)
     5. 06:33 AM - Re: Re: Battery questions (David Joyce)
     6. 08:01 AM - Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight (Vince)
     7. 08:25 AM - Shows great promise for a FWF (Peter Zutrauen)
     8. 08:52 AM - Battery questions - and answers (Fred Klein)
     9. 09:48 AM - Re: Battery questions - and answers (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
    10. 01:04 PM - Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight (jonathanmilbank)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:11:47 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Battery questions
    From: "kees de bussy" <keesdebussy@hotmail.com>
    Fred, I have an Odyssey 545 mounted on the rightside footwell. The 545 is a little smaller than the 680, has somewhat less cranking power and saves about 1.3 kg over a 680. Although its smaller capacity it cranks and cranks and cranks my 912s for years, even in freezing cold wheather. For what it is worth. Kees de Bussy Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409646#409646


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:14:32 AM PST US
    From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
    Subject: Re: Battery questions
    Fred, I would go along with the notion hat a single Odyssey battery ( or any modern equivalent - but not a conventional lead acid battery) is sufficient. It Has worked well for me for 12 years. Never needs charging. Starts first time in mid winter after being ignored for 3 months. I do not see the need for doubling up. Once had a rectifier failure in the North Sea with perhaps 50 nm to go to land, but it was not an issue. Got all the way back to Gloucester without any drama! The engine carries on (even my 914 which has its electric fuel pump driven directly from the alternator and carries on in spite of rectifier failure or indeed if you switch off both master and alternator switches) and you don't absolutely need any other form of electricity, although the battery has ample reserves to run a radio and a GPS (if it doesn't have it's own internal battery) for several hours. It is possible to imagine some really complex form of failure that could bring another battery into use, but I have never heard of anyone having such a failure, and the weight of an extra battery + wiring is a heavy penalty to pay. Build light & fly further! Regards, David Joyce, G- XSDJ On Wed, 2 Oct 2013 01:11:19 -0700 "kees de bussy" <keesdebussy@hotmail.com> wrote: ><keesdebussy@hotmail.com> > >Fred, > > I have an Odyssey 545 mounted on the rightside footwell. >The 545 is a little smaller than the 680, has somewhat >less cranking power and saves about 1.3 kg over a 680. >Although its smaller capacity it cranks and cranks and >cranks my 912s for years, even in freezing cold wheather. > >For what it is worth. > > Kees de Bussy > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409646#409646 > > > > > > > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 02:26:15 AM PST US
    From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Battery questions
    Sounds reasonable David, the only caveat I can think of is a short on the m ain buss=0Awhich would flatten the battery.=0AThis is the reason for Bob Nu ckolds emergency buss which I think is a good idea=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_ _______________________________=0A From: David Joyce <davidjoyce@doctors.or g.uk>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesday, 2 October 2013, 1 0:13=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Battery questions=0A =0A=0A--> Europa- List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>=0A=0A=0AF red, I would go along with the notion hat a single Odyssey battery ( or any modern equivalent - but not a conventional lead acid battery) is sufficien t. It Has worked well for me for 12 years. Never needs charging. Starts fir st time in mid winter after being ignored for 3 months. I do not see the ne ed for doubling up. Once had a rectifier failure in the North Sea with perh aps 50 nm to go to land, but it was not an issue. Got all the way back to G loucester without any drama! The engine carries on (even my 914 which has i ts electric fuel pump driven directly from the alternator and carries on in spite of rectifier failure or indeed if you switch off both master and alt ernator switches) and- you don't absolutely need any other form of electr icity, although the battery has ample reserves to run a radio and a GPS (if it doesn't have it's own internal battery) for several hours. It is possib le to imagine some really complex form of failure that could bring another battery into use,- but I have never heard of anyone having such a failure, and the weight of an extra battery + wiring is a heavy penalty t o pay. Build light & fly further!=0ARegards, David Joyce, G- XSDJ=0A=0AOn W ed,- 2 Oct 2013 01:11:19 -0700=0A"kees de bussy" <keesdebussy@hotmail.com y@hotmail.com>=0A> =0A> Fred,=0A> =0A> I have an Odyssey 545 mounted on the rightside footwell. The 545 is a little smaller than the 680, has- somew hat less cranking power and saves about 1.3 kg over a 680. Although its sma ller capacity it cranks and cranks and cranks my 912s for years, even in fr eezing cold wheather. =0A> For what it is worth.=0A> =0A> Kees de Bussy=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.ma tronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409646#409646=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =============


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:04:07 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Battery questions
    From: "h&amp;jeuropa" <butcher43@att.net>
    Fred, We've used Panasonic LC-RD1217P batteries in our Europa since first flight. They are a little less expensive than the Oddessy batteries. We once purchased a "look alike" battery which failed in a few hours! We do load check the battery every year and find we replace it about every two years. Jim & Heather N241BW Mono 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409663#409663


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:33:13 AM PST US
    From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
    Subject: Re: Battery questions
    Jim, I have replaced my Odyssey every 5 + years so you may not be getting value for money! Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Wed, 2 Oct 2013 06:03:28 -0700 "h&amp;jeuropa" <butcher43@att.net> wrote: ><butcher43@att.net> > >Fred, > > We've used Panasonic LC-RD1217P batteries in our Europa >since first flight. They are a little less expensive >than the Oddessy batteries. > > We once purchased a "look alike" battery which failed in >a few hours! > > We do load check the battery every year and find we >replace it about every two years. > > Jim & Heather > N241BW > Mono 914 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409663#409663 > > > > > > > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:01:04 AM PST US
    From: "Vince" <groups@thegoddards.com>
    Subject: Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight
    Fred, The UL260iS comes in at an installed weight of approx 73kg (including all accessories, oil and exhaust). I have the 2x pumps, 2x course filters and 2x fine filters plus the ECU mounted in the mono wheel tunnel, the 2 x ignition, regulator and Oil/Air Separator mounted on the fire wall so leaves about 65kg of engine and 12kg of Woodcomp SR 3000/3J hung on the engine mount. Not sure how this compares with a rotax but looking at the rotax specs and adding the liquids etc I believe the ULPower is lighter. I did have to hang the Odyssey 680 battery of the pax footwell to get the best CofG. ta Vince -----Original Message----- Vince...what information can you share regarding your engine's installed weight?...Fred


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:25:11 AM PST US
    From: Peter Zutrauen <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
    Subject: Shows great promise for a FWF
    http://www.d-motor.eu/nl/expected-specifications-64.htm I wish them luck! Much simpler than a rotax, and still water-cooled. http://www.d-motor.eu/nl/expected-specifications-64.htm


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:52:22 AM PST US
    From: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
    Subject: Battery questions - and answers
    David J., Graham, Kees, Jim & Heather...thank you all for your comments... Bear in mind that my engine has no magnetos and is totally dependent upon a source of electricity to keep the prop turning...hence my consideration for flying around with an extra battery...highly recommended by Bob Nuckolls. Fred


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:48:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Battery questions - and answers
    From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
    Hi Fred My 914 is electrically dependent. When soaring with long wings if my primary battery gives up the ghost upon start-up, I have a total loss battery to come to the rescue. I perhaps could even start off this NiMh battery but it would severely limit it&#39;s useful life. Thus air-start (I have a Airmaster). There are a few other reasons I like having it such as I can plumb direct to a fuel pump in seconds if need be: See Starboard Headrest: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=86878 See NiMh total loss battery: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=30710 Side note: I am using Erics CCA #4 equivalent wire. IMHO you best keep in the front of your mind if using CCA that the fatigue resistance is awful compared to Tefzel and really awful compared to many strand welding cable. Test fatigue before install and route to accommodate. It&#39;s also stiffer and requires a larger bend radius. Besides that, it crimps and solders (in that order) just fine. Very usable, just accommodate it&#39;s inherentcharacteristics. Ron Parigoris


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:04:13 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight
    From: "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
    Vince, please PM me at jdmilbank@hotmail.com. You might recall that I 'phoned you many moons ago on the advice of Ian Rickard, but I've lost your 'phone number. At the time I told you that I spent many hours and days working on and inside the fuselage of your aircraft, on behalf of the previous owner. He in his turn wasn't aware of several matters which he inherited from someone else; now deceased I believe. I built my own Europa between 1994 and 1997 and it's still going strong. Luckily I'm not so large that I can't crawl inside the rear fuselage, so I'm intimately acquainted with your machine. It looks marvellous now and I'm very pleased that I never reached the stage of doing it's permit renewal test flight while the Subaru engine was still installed. I even drove from Aberdeenshire to Doncaster to fetch a donor Subaru on behalf of the owner, before he decided to sell it. You've got a bargain, with that undercarriage which can only be an improvement on my old monowheel. Differential brakes are the answer! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409710#409710




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