Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:34 AM - Re: Fuselage weakness, or intentional ?? (Christoph Both)
2. 10:44 AM - Re: Fuselage weakness, or intentional ?? (nigel henry)
3. 01:24 PM - ADI on android (graeme bird)
4. 02:14 PM - Re: ADI on android (Karl Heindl)
5. 03:28 PM - Re: ADI on android (Frans Veldman)
6. 03:50 PM - Re: ADI on android (Pete)
7. 06:17 PM - Re: ADI on android (Andrew Sarangan)
8. 07:31 PM - Re: ADI on android (Karl Heindl)
9. 11:41 PM - Re: Fuselage weakness, or intentional ?? (Nigel Graham)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage weakness, or intentional ?? |
I assume this is an important security feature isolating the cockpit cell from
the remainder of the back fuselage in case of a hard crash. Perhaps Ivan or Nev
or those involved on the first hours have an answer. I would be cautious to
make changes, especially reinforcements as in composite construction these changes
allow forces to migrate to other areas they might not be intended for, with
possibly undesirable consequences. The mandatory root layup Mod of the glider
wing speaks of this very clearly where such migratory consequences of material
stresses under high G were initially not taken into consideration.
Christoph
223 Europa classic
Wolfville Nova Scotia
Sent from my iPhone
On 2013-10-06, at 1:10, "Tony Renshaw" <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gidday,
> Whilst working around in the lower fuse it has concerned me that my fuselage
has what appears to be an intentional absence of core material such that an obvious
weakness exists in the fuselage directly above the penetrations for the
flap drive cross tube. Has anyone externally reinforced this area, by adding core
material and strapping it in place, encapsulating it, and resulting in a conventional
sandwich construction concept?
> Regards
> Tony Renshaw
>
> Using Skitch on Mac for photo work.
>
> <Attachment-1.jpeg>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Fuselage weakness, or intentional ?? |
> Subject: Europa-List: Fuselage weakness=2C or intentional ??
> From: tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com
> Date: Sun=2C 6 Oct 2013 16:07:17 +1100
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>
> Gidday=2C
> Whilst working around in the lower fuse it has concerned me that my fusel
age has what appears to be an intentional absence of core material such tha
t an obvious weakness exists in the fuselage directly above the penetration
s for the flap drive cross tube. Has anyone externally reinforced this area
=2C by adding core material and strapping it in place=2C encapsulating it
=2C and resulting in a conventional sandwich construction concept?
> Regards
> Tony Renshaw
>
> Using Skitch on Mac for photo work.
>
Message 3
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Ive just installed skydemon on a new nexus7 with the PFLARM, I noticed though the
tablet incorporates, as well as a high spec GPS; a magnetometer, accelerometer,
and gyro. It would appear to have the essentials for an Attitude indicator
and a good deal more, I wondered if anyone has been running a attitude good
app on a similar tablet or phone.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 75 hours 18 months
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409954#409954
Message 4
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Hi Graeme=2C
A friend of mine showed me his new Samsung with Android=2C and an app which
cost $ 1.87 and it is an attitude indicator. I thought it was absolutely a
mazing=2C very sharp resolution and instant response. Stick it on your inst
rument panel and away you go.
Karl
> Subject: Europa-List: ADI on android
> From: graeme@gdbmk.co.uk
> Date: Sun=2C 6 Oct 2013 13:23:57 -0700
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Ive just installed skydemon on a new nexus7 with the PFLARM=2C I noticed
though the tablet incorporates=2C as well as a high spec GPS=3B a magnetome
ter=2C accelerometer=2C and gyro. It would appear to have the essentials fo
r an Attitude indicator and a good deal more=2C I wondered if anyone has be
en running a attitude good app on a similar tablet or phone.
>
> --------
> Graeme Bird
> G-UMPY
> Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
> Newby: 75 hours 18 months
> g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409954#409954
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
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===========
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>
>
>
Message 5
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Most of these things are a joke. They measure the direction of gravity so on the
ground they appear to work, but while pulling G's they show the wrong thing.
Even when implemented correctly you have the problem that solid state gyros have
a very high drift. They work only a few minutes if they are not corrected
by some external reference, like a GPS signal. And that makes them pretty useless.
Frans
Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com> wrote:
>
>Hi Graeme,
>A friend of mine showed me his new Samsung with Android, and an app
>which cost $ 1.87 and it is an attitude indicator. I thought it was
>absolutely amazing, very sharp resolution and instant response. Stick
>it on your instrument panel and away you go.
>Karl
>
>
>> Subject: Europa-List: ADI on android
>> From: graeme@gdbmk.co.uk
>> Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 13:23:57 -0700
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>
>>
>> Ive just installed skydemon on a new nexus7 with the PFLARM, I
>noticed though the tablet incorporates, as well as a high spec GPS; a
>magnetometer, accelerometer, and gyro. It would appear to have the
>essentials for an Attitude indicator and a good deal more, I wondered
>if anyone has been running a attitude good app on a similar tablet or
>phone.
>>
>> --------
>> Graeme Bird
>> G-UMPY
>> Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
>> Newby: 75 hours 18 months
>> g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409954#409954
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>===========
>===========
>===========
>===========
>>
>>
>>
>
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: ADI on android |
I agree fully with Frans. For a real horizon which will remain valid during c
onstant rate turns etc. I would suggest Levil Technology's AHRS-Gmini with a
ir data (which I have tested satisfactorily over about 60 hours), or other A
HRS units now on the market which integrate magnetometers and air data to au
gment and cross check their gyro and accel parameters. Add a tablet wireless
ly and one has a pretty good back-up six pack. Add software like Xavion (fro
m the creator of x-plane), and the capabilities for emergencies situations q
uickly grow.
Fwiw,
Cheers
Pete
A239
> On Oct 6, 2013, at 6:27 PM, Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl> wrote:
>
> Most of these things are a joke. They measure the direction of gravity so o
n the ground they appear to work, but while pulling G's they show the wrong t
hing. Even when implemented correctly you have the problem that solid state g
yros have a very high drift. They work only a few minutes if they are not co
rrected by some external reference, like a GPS signal. And that makes them p
retty useless.
>
> Frans
>
> Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Graeme,
>>
>> A friend of mine showed me his new Samsung with Android, and an app which
cost $ 1.87 and it is an attitude indicator. I thought it was absolutely am
azing, very sharp resolution and instant response. Stick it on your instrume
nt panel and away you go.
>>
>> Karl
>>
>>
>>
>> > Subject: Europa-List: ADI on android
>> > From: graeme@gdbmk.co.uk
>> > Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 13:23:57 -0700
>> > To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> >
>> >
>> > Ive just installed skydemon on a new nexus7 with the PFLARM, I noticed t
hough the tablet incorporates, as well as a high spec GPS; a magnetometer, a
ccelerometer, and gyro. It would appear to have the essentials for an Attitu
de indicator and a good deal more, I wondered if anyone has been running a a
ttitude good a pp on a similar tablet or phone.
>> >
>> > --------
>> > Graeme Bird
>> > G-UMPY
>> > Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
>> > Newby: 75 hours 18 months
>> > g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409954#409954
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >====================
>> > _===
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
> --
> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
>
==========================
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==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: ADI on android |
While I agree with you that most of these devices are unsuitable for
inflight use, the reason for that lies is the product design, not
the technology. Solid state technology certainly can deliver accurate
signals to fly in IMC if they are designed and tested for that purpose. The
ipad, iphone etc.. were designed for an entirely different purpose, so we
should not blame the technology for their lack of performance in an
airplane.
I remember being told the same thing about GPS back in 1997. The old ADF
was considered far more flight worthy than the GPS.
On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl>wrote:
> Most of these things are a joke. They measure the direction of gravity so
> on the ground they appear to work, but while pulling G's they show the
> wrong thing. Even when implemented correctly you have the problem that
> solid state gyros have a very high drift. They work only a few minutes if
> they are not corrected by some external reference, like a GPS signal. And
> that makes them pretty useless.
>
> Frans
>
> Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Graeme,
>>
>> A friend of mine showed me his new Samsung with Android, and an app which
>> cost $ 1.87 and it is an attitude indicator. I thought it was absolutely
>> amazing, very sharp resolution and instant response. Stick it on your
>> instrument panel and away you go.
>>
>> Karl
>>
>>
>>
>> > Subject: Europa-List: ADI on android
>> > From: graeme@gdbmk.co.uk
>> > Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 13:23:57 -0700
>> > To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> >
>> >
>> > Ive just installed skydemon on a new nexus7 with the PFLARM, I noticed
>> though the tablet incorporates, as well as a high spec GPS; a magnetometer,
>> accelerometer, and gyro. It would appear to have the essentials for an
>> Attitude indicator and a good deal more, I wondered if anyone has been
>> running a attitude good a pp on a similar tablet or phone.
>>
>> >
>> > --------
>> > Graeme Bird
>> > G-UMPY
>> > Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
>> > Newby: 75 hours 18 months
>> > g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409954#409954
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >====================
>> > _===
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
> --
> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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Frans=2C
You are probably right=2C but some manufacturers are marketing pure electro
nic AI's and DI's.I think MGL is one=2C and RC ALLEN have a certified one f
or a few grand. I don't see any mention of GPS coupling. So what makes one
a joke and another that works ? I don't like any of the EFIS units=2C but a
m very interested in replacing my vacuum gyros with same size electronic ga
dgets.
Karl
From: asarangan@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: ADI on android
While I agree with you that most of these devices are unsuitable for infli
ght use=2C the reason for that lies is the product design=2C not the techno
logy. Solid state technology certainly can deliver accurate signals to fly
in IMC if they are designed and tested for that purpose. The ipad=2C iphon
e etc.. were designed for an entirely different purpose=2C so we should not
blame the technology for their lack of performance in an airplane.=0A
=0A
I remember being told the same thing about GPS back in 1997. The old ADF w
as considered far more flight worthy than the GPS. =0A
=0A
On Sun=2C Oct 6=2C 2013 at 6:27 PM=2C Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl
> wrote:
=0A
=0A
Most of these things are a joke. They measure the direction of gravity so o
n the ground they appear to work=2C but while pulling G's they show the wro
ng thing. Even when implemented correctly you have the problem that solid s
tate gyros have a very high drift. They work only a few minutes if they are
not corrected by some external reference=2C like a GPS signal. And that ma
kes them pretty useless.
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Frans
Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com> wrote:=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Hi Graeme=2C
A friend of mine showed me his new Samsung with Android=2C and an app which
cost $ 1.87 and it is an attitude indicator. I thought it was absolutely a
mazing=2C very sharp resolution and instant response. Stick it on your inst
rument panel and away you go.=0A
=0A
Karl
> Subject: Europa-List: ADI on android
> From: graeme@gdbmk.co.uk
=0A
=0A
> Date: Sun=2C 6 Oct 2013 13:23:57 -0700
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>
=0A
=0A
>
> Ive just installed skydemon on a new nexus7 with the PFLARM=2C I noticed
though the tablet incorporates=2C as well as a high spec GPS=3B a magnetome
ter=2C accelerometer=2C and gyro. It would appear to have the essentials fo
r an Attitude indicator and a good deal more=2C I wondered if anyone has be
en running a attitude good a=0A
=0A
pp on a=0A
similar tablet or phone.
>
> --------
> Graeme Bird
> G-UMPY
> Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
> Newby: 75 hours 18 months
> g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
=0A
=0A
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409954#409954
=0A
=0A
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>====================
> _===
>
>
>
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
--
=0A
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List=0A
tp://forums.matronics.com=0A
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A
=0A
=0A
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage weakness, or intentional ?? |
Tony,
I suspect that this an obsolete design feature from the old "classic"
Europa, that had the bagage bay bulkhead at that position. When bonding
component together, you don't want a foam core at the bond-site - hence
the triangle (compare the angle of the foam with the angle of the
bulkhead). When the classic was developed into the XS and the bulkhead
moved back, this was never changed.
It does not constitute a weak point and I would not worry about it.
Adding more material will only add more weight.
Nigel
On 06/10/2013 06:07, Tony Renshaw wrote:
> Gidday,
> Whilst working around in the lower fuse it has concerned me that my fuselage
has what appears to be an intentional absence of core material such that an obvious
weakness exists in the fuselage directly above the penetrations for the
flap drive cross tube. Has anyone externally reinforced this area, by adding core
material and strapping it in place, encapsulating it, and resulting in a conventional
sandwich construction concept?
> Regards
> Tony Renshaw
>
> Using Skitch on Mac for photo work.
>
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