Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:07 AM - Re: ADI on android (Frans Veldman)
2. 03:44 AM - Re: ADI on android (richard)
3. 09:25 AM - SB15-v- clamps (danny shepherd)
4. 11:56 AM - Re: SB15-v- clamps (pjeffers@talktalk.net)
5. 12:40 PM - Re: ADI on android (kees de bussy)
6. 12:57 PM - Re: SB15-v- clamps (Alan Carter)
7. 01:29 PM - Re: Re: SB15-v- clamps (danny shepherd)
8. 01:32 PM - Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Europaul383)
9. 02:48 PM - Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight (Groups)
10. 03:29 PM - Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight (Robert Borger)
11. 03:36 PM - Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight (Bob Harrison)
12. 03:50 PM - fuel level sensor under the headrest (William Daniell)
Message 1
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If they have no GPS coupling they probably self correct by assuming that you are
flying straight and level most of the time and average the input. Which may
seem the correct thing to do but in real IMC it may be possible that you very
slowly divert into a bad attitude and the AI adapts to it so it doesn't show you
that things are not going so good.
Some of the Android and iPad implementations are written by non-pilots and are
essentially a bubble level bar but with a AI picture on it.
Anyway I would surely investigate how the AI corrects for the drift. If they claim
the unit has zero drift they are lying.
Frans
Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com> wrote:
>Frans,
>You are probably right, but some manufacturers are marketing pure
>electronic AI's and DI's.I think MGL is one, and RC ALLEN have a
>certified one for a few grand. I don't see any mention of GPS coupling.
>So what makes one a joke and another that works ? I don't like any of
>the EFIS units, but am very interested in replacing my vacuum gyros
>with same size electronic gadgets.
>Karl
>
>
>From: asarangan@gmail.com
>Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 21:16:24 -0400
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: ADI on android
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>
>While I agree with you that most of these devices are unsuitable for
>inflight use, the reason for that lies is the product design, not the
>technology. Solid state technology certainly can deliver accurate
>signals to fly in IMC if they are designed and tested for that purpose.
>The ipad, iphone etc.. were designed for an entirely different purpose,
>so we should not blame the technology for their lack of performance in
>an airplane.
>
>I remember being told the same thing about GPS back in 1997. The old
>ADF was considered far more flight worthy than the GPS.
>
>
>On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl>
>wrote:
>
>
>Most of these things are a joke. They measure the direction of gravity
>so on the ground they appear to work, but while pulling G's they show
>the wrong thing. Even when implemented correctly you have the problem
>that solid state gyros have a very high drift. They work only a few
>minutes if they are not corrected by some external reference, like a
>GPS signal. And that makes them pretty useless.
>
>
>Frans
>
>Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
>Hi Graeme,
>A friend of mine showed me his new Samsung with Android, and an app
>which cost $ 1.87 and it is an attitude indicator. I thought it was
>absolutely amazing, very sharp resolution and instant response. Stick
>it on your instrument panel and away you go.
>
>
>Karl
>
>
>> Subject: Europa-List: ADI on android
>> From: graeme@gdbmk.co.uk
>
>
>> Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 13:23:57 -0700
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>
>
>
>>
>> Ive just installed skydemon on a new nexus7 with the PFLARM, I
>noticed though the tablet incorporates, as well as a high spec GPS; a
>magnetometer, accelerometer, and gyro. It would appear to have the
>essentials for an Attitude indicator and a good deal more, I wondered
>if anyone has been running a attitude good a
>
> pp on a
>similar tablet or phone.
>>
>> --------
>> Graeme Bird
>> G-UMPY
>> Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
>> Newby: 75 hours 18 months
>> g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409954#409954
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>====================
>> _===
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>
>Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
>
>arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>tp://forums.matronics.com
>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>==========
>==========
>==========
>==========
>
>
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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| Subject: | Re: ADI on android |
Hi graeme
I already have Skydemond and use their mobile device in the Europa. I am
considering replacing my "very bashed about Nokia" phone but have been put
off by all the functions now available. Can you explain to me why I would
need the equivalent of blind flying kit to use the phone . I won't boor you
with my suggestions but as you and others, who have replied seemed well
versed, I am eager to learn.
Regards Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: graeme bird
Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2013 9:23 PM
Subject: Europa-List: ADI on android
Ive just installed skydemon on a new nexus7 with the PFLARM, I noticed
though the tablet incorporates, as well as a high spec GPS; a magnetometer,
accelerometer, and gyro. It would appear to have the essentials for an
Attitude indicator and a good deal more, I wondered if anyone has been
running a attitude good app on a similar tablet or phone.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 75 hours 18 months
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409954#409954
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Hi All,
Just like to let all Europa owners know. When I removed the
torque tube for Pat Tunney to take away to be machined ready to fit the
clamps, I was amased how little of the loctite 603 was actually in
between the tube and the TP12 and TP9. The TP12's are a tight fit, the
TP9 not so much. did I carry out SB 15 correctly !! I think so. I know a
few guys have tried using a vacuum hose to pull the loctite in. maybe
they had better luck. to my mind the only way to go is by fitting the
clamps.
Danny G-c.e.r.i ( feeling a lot safer )
Ps. Thanks Pat, the clamps fit perfectly.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: SB15-v- clamps |
=0AHi Danny,=0AYour observations are quite normal. About 1/2 to
1mm penetration of the 603 is all that is required to do
the job.=0APete=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: danny shep
herd <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>=0ATo: matronics <europa-list@matronics.co
m>=0ASent: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 17:35=0ASubject: Europa-List: SB15-v-
danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> =0A =0AHi All, =0A Just like to le
t all Europa owners know. When I removed the torque tube f
or Pat Tunney to take away to be machined ready to fit t
he clamps, I was amased how little of the loctite 603 was
actually in between the tube and the TP12 and TP9. The TP1
2's are a tight fit, the TP9 not so much. did I carry
out SB 15 correctly !! I think so. I know a few guys h
ave tried using a vacuum hose to pull the loctite in. mayb
e they had better luck. to my mind the only way to go
is by fitting the clamps. =0A =0ADanny G-c.e.r.i ( feeling a
lot safer ) =0A =0APs. Thanks Pat, the clamps fit perfect
===========================
===========================
===========================
===========================
===========================
======================== =0A
=0A =0A=0A
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: ADI on android |
I agree with Frans that smart phones and tablet, using their internal sensors,
are a nogo for flying in IMC circumstances. However I disagree that the technology
of solid state gyro's is by definition not reliable or not suitable for flying.
On the contrary, a lot of AHRS systems rely on it, in commercial as well
in military aircraft/UAV's and since a decade or so in small aircraft as well.
A typical AHRS system, as far as I am aware, relies on 3 gyro's and 3 accelerometers
and often 3 magnetometers as well. One of each at each axis to create
an inertial platform. These systems can be connected to a gps, but not necessarily.
Solid state gyro's have a lot of advantages over conventional (spinning)
gyro's. They are very reliable in high vibration, high g-load circumstances
unlike conventional gyro's. AHRS systems can be very small light weight packages
nowadays, while conventional gyro's are pretty bulky and heavy. I know aviation
is pretty conservative, and that is good. The point is do not not condemn
modern technology as being not suitable while it might be (or should I say
will be) not only the near future but even already pretty common today.
Kees de Bussy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410013#410013
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| Subject: | Re: SB15-v- clamps |
Hi Danny.
You will be well pleased with the clamps, mine are as solid as a weld no movement,
I am pleased you are fitting them, as this is an area which has always bothered
me. I think you have spent you money wisely.
However a friend of mine had the Loctite fail after two or three years, and I am
confident he did a good job of loctiting the tube first time, as he could not
separate the parts due to old Loctite, he cleaned with fluid and re Loctite
the joints, which have been ok over the passed few years.
Fly safe
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410015#410015
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| Subject: | Re: SB15-v- clamps |
Hi Alan,
When I did the SB15 it seemed to be ok for quite a while,
but over the last few months the movement started to increase. possible
still within tolerance, but worrying :-( . Pat came down three weeks ago
and took the tube away to get it machined. he returned this Saturday
morning and fitted it. There is absolutely no movement, a great fit. My
inspector came down this morning and signed it off, very impressed.
Pat's a nice chap, just charged for fuel. highly recommended.
All the best Danny.
On 07/10/2013 20:57, Alan Carter wrote:
>
> Hi Danny.
> You will be well pleased with the clamps, mine are as solid as a weld no movement,
I am pleased you are fitting them, as this is an area which has always bothered
me. I think you have spent you money wisely.
> However a friend of mine had the Loctite fail after two or three years, and I
am confident he did a good job of loctiting the tube first time, as he could
not separate the parts due to old Loctite, he cleaned with fluid and re Loctite
the joints, which have been ok over the passed few years.
>
> Fly safe
> Alan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410015#410015
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
ANO Article 23(5) - Limitations of national permits to fly: "An aircraft flying
in accordance with a permit to fly may only be flown by day and in accordance
with the Visual Flight Rules unless the prior permission of the CAA has been
obtained."
CAP 733 and LAA Leaflet 2.10 "Operating on a Permit to Fly compared with a CofA"
also clearly state the Operating Limitations...
...but surely you have a placard in your aircraft to comply with the ANO, as per
LAA TL 2.11, which states, inter alia, "Daytime VFR only"?
www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/operating_aircraft.html
www.caa.co.uk/cap733
Of course, the ANO only applies in the UK, but then so does an IMC rating...
HTH
Paul M
383 XS Mono 912S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410017#410017
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight |
After some environmental issues on Saturday, BWUP was moved today to Lydeway
field (thanks goes to Nigel Charles & LAA for giving permission) and took t
o the air for the first time in 7 years. Reborn with a ULPower UL260iS engi
ne and Woodcomp variable pitch propellor BWUP had 2 flights totalling 45 min
utes. Both flights saw temperatures and pressures within normal limits with n
o undue vibrations or problems arising. Phil the test pilot commented on how
smooth the engine was and removal of the cowls after each flight revealed n
o issues either. More flights hopefully this week if weather and work commit
ments allow.
Vince Goddard
G-BWUP
Europa UL260iS Swiss tailwheel
>> Today BWUP the first UL260iS powered Europa was cleared for flight testin
g by the LAA. Hopefully if the weather is favourable BWUP should take to the
air on Sunday. Thanks goes to the following for all their help, support and
guidance:
>> Mark Jones, Galaxy UL engines for the UL260iS
>> Ian Rickard, for all those cad drawings and his support getting the proje
ct going
>> ULPower, for the engine mount using Ian's drawings
>> Neville Eyre, for all his help with the cowls
>> Kevin Dilks for Woodcomp propellor
>> Mark Burton for propellor controller
>> Mike Rudd, LAA inspector who helped get the project going
>> Westgate composites, who created a set of cowls from my hybrid of classic
and Eyre cowls
>> LAA, for allowing the project
>> Phil Hall, inspector and test pilot to be
>>
>>
>>
>> Vince Goddard
>> G-BWUP
>> Europa UL260iS Swiss tailwheel
>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight |
Vince,
Congratulations to all the good folks involved in the effort. Looks like you have
a winner there.
Please keep us posted on the continued testing. We'd like to hear about t/o distance,
rate of climb, cruise speeds and fuel flow.
I'd also like to hear how the Swiss tail wheel configuration works out for ground/takeoff/landing
handling.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Oct 7, 2013, at 4:46 PM, Groups <groups@thegoddards.com> wrote:
After some environmental issues on Saturday, BWUP was moved today to Lydeway field
(thanks goes to Nigel Charles & LAA for giving permission) and took to the
air for the first time in 7 years. Reborn with a ULPower UL260iS engine and
Woodcomp variable pitch propellor BWUP had 2 flights totalling 45 minutes. Both
flights saw temperatures and pressures within normal limits with no undue vibrations
or problems arising. Phil the test pilot commented on how smooth the
engine was and removal of the cowls after each flight revealed no issues either.
More flights hopefully this week if weather and work commitments allow.
<image.jpeg>
Vince Goddard
G-BWUP
Europa UL260iS Swiss tailwheel
Message 11
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| Subject: | ULPowered Europa cleared for flight |
Well done ...now the fun ...! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Kit 337 914 .
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Groups
Sent: 07 October 2013 22:47
Subject: Re: Europa-List: ULPowered Europa cleared for flight
After some environmental issues on Saturday, BWUP was moved today to Lydeway
field (thanks goes to Nigel Charles & LAA for giving permission) and took to
the air for the first time in 7 years. Reborn with a ULPower UL260iS engine
and Woodcomp variable pitch propellor BWUP had 2 flights totalling 45
minutes. Both flights saw temperatures and pressures within normal limits
with no undue vibrations or problems arising. Phil the test pilot commented
on how smooth the engine was and removal of the cowls after each flight
revealed no issues either. More flights hopefully this week if weather and
work commitments allow.
Message 12
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| Subject: | fuel level sensor under the headrest |
I have been Reading the questions and issues with respect to the fuel
gauge sender unit.
When I put it in I still had faith in the instructions and therefore put
it, like the instructions told me to, under the raised seat/back
headrest thing.
I did not use sealant (cos the instructions didn=99t tell me to)
but from the posts it appears I should have. Also there have been a
number of people suggesting that it would be a good idea to hoover out
the tank before starting the engine.
I assembled the tank and put it into the cockpit module at least 5 years
ago and haven=99t put fuel in yet.
So what does the assembled wisdom advise? Should I do nothing (wait and
see)? Should I cut the headrest off take the fuel sender out, hoover
out, apply sealant and reassemble? Or should I relocate to between the
headrests?
I hate to think of cutting up the cockpit module but I gather
it=99s been done before for example to take you split
tanks.
Will
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