Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:24 AM - Re: fuel level sensor under the headrest (richard)
2. 03:58 AM - Re: {Spam?} Re: fuel level sensor under the headrest (Pete Lawless)
3. 10:13 AM - Re: fuel level sensor under the headrest (graeme bird)
4. 10:36 AM - Re: ADI on android (graeme bird)
5. 10:39 AM - Re: Re: fuel level sensor under the headrest (Fred Klein)
6. 10:47 AM - Re: Re: fuel level sensor under the headrest (William Daniell)
7. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: fuel level sensor under the headrest (Fred Klein)
8. 12:33 PM - Re: Re: Battery questions (Raimo Toivio)
9. 01:00 PM - Re: Re: Battery questions (Bob Harrison)
10. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: fuel level sensor under the headrest (William Daniell)
11. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: Battery questions (Robert Borger)
12. 01:56 PM - Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Alan Carter)
13. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Kevin Challis)
14. 02:11 PM - Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Alan Carter)
15. 02:15 PM - Re: SB15-v- clamps (Alan Carter)
16. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: SB15-v- clamps (danny shepherd)
17. 10:25 PM - Re: Re: Battery questions (Raimo Toivio)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: fuel level sensor under the headrest |
Will Hi .
As you have got this far I would suggest you flush out the tank with
fuel as well as you can using the two tank drains and buy yourself a
large bag of replacement filter screens and go with it. Watch the
filters [the standard ones under the seat] like a hawk and change very
regularly for the first 50hrs. Also after you have completed the test
flight program I would make a point when re-fuelling of filling up right
to the top so that the whole of the inside has a good flush.Loose tank
material is translucent when wet with fuel which makes it very difficult
to see so if in doubt just change the filter. If like me you have no
valve between the fuel tank and the filter then buy a brake hose squeeze
tool =C2=A36 or =C2=A37 from Halfords makes the job easy.
Also an after thought, have you got a fuel pressure gauge if not fit one
=C2=A350 peace of mind and practice changing to reserve tank [different
filter].
Good luck regards Richard
From: William Daniell
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 11:44 PM
Subject: Europa-List: fuel level sensor under the headrest
I have been Reading the questions and issues with respect to the fuel
gauge sender unit.
When I put it in I still had faith in the instructions and therefore put
it, like the instructions told me to, under the raised seat/back
headrest thing.
I did not use sealant (cos the instructions didn=99t tell me to)
but from the posts it appears I should have. Also there have been a
number of people suggesting that it would be a good idea to hoover out
the tank before starting the engine.
I assembled the tank and put it into the cockpit module at least 5 years
ago and haven=99t put fuel in yet.
So what does the assembled wisdom advise? Should I do nothing (wait and
see)? Should I cut the headrest off take the fuel sender out, hoover
out, apply sealant and reassemble? Or should I relocate to between the
headrests?
I hate to think of cutting up the cockpit module but I gather
it=99s been done before for example to take you split
tanks.
Will
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| Subject: | Re: fuel level sensor under the headrest |
Hi William
>From personal experience hovering out the tank is not particularly
effective
and certainly not worth doing anything drastic for. Just change the
filter
element regularly ' like every couple of hours at the start.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of richard
Sent: 08 October 2013 11:24
Subject: {Spam?} Re: Europa-List: fuel level sensor under the headrest
Will Hi .
As you have got this far I would suggest you flush out the tank with
fuel as
well as you can using the two tank drains and buy yourself a large bag
of
replacement filter screens and go with it. Watch the filters [the
standard
ones under the seat] like a hawk and change very regularly for the first
50hrs. Also after you have completed the test flight program I would
make a
point when re-fuelling of filling up right to the top so that the whole
of
the inside has a good flush.Loose tank material is translucent when wet
with
fuel which makes it very difficult to see so if in doubt just change the
filter. If like me you have no valve between the fuel tank and the
filter
then buy a brake hose squeeze tool =A36 or =A37 from Halfords makes the
job
easy.
Also an after thought, have you got a fuel pressure gauge if not fit one
=A350 peace of mind and practice changing to reserve tank [different
filter].
Good luck regards Richard
From: William Daniell <mailto:wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2013 11:44 PM
Subject: Europa-List: fuel level sensor under the headrest
I have been Reading the questions and issues with respect to the fuel
gauge
sender unit.
When I put it in I still had faith in the instructions and therefore put
it,
like the instructions told me to, under the raised seat/back headrest
thing.
I did not use sealant (cos the instructions didn=92t tell me to) but
from the
posts it appears I should have. Also there have been a number of people
suggesting that it would be a good idea to hoover out the tank before
starting the engine.
I assembled the tank and put it into the cockpit module at least 5 years
ago
and haven=92t put fuel in yet.
So what does the assembled wisdom advise? Should I do nothing (wait and
see)? Should I cut the headrest off take the fuel sender out, hoover
out,
apply sealant and reassemble? Or should I relocate to between the
headrests?
I hate to think of cutting up the cockpit module but I gather it=92s
been done
before =85for example to take you split tanks.
Will
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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| Subject: | Re: fuel level sensor under the headrest |
if its the airworld one; mine did leak slightly when the tank was up to the filler.
I got in a right pickle when sorting it; forgetting (alter applying gue)
that the five holes have to align, in sender, gasket, tank and nut ring because
although they appear equi-distant they are actually on three different pitches.
I also dropped the ring nut into the tank and a screw (plonker).
If I had to do it again, I would buy 5 longer screws and replace the them one at
a time allowing the sender and gasket to be lifted and a small amount of sealer
to be applied from around the top. When replacing the with the right length
screws I would add a small blob to each to seal the clearance hole and thread.
Sealer is not required in the tank.
Also you should be aware that because of the tank shape the gauge will read non
linearly and half full will be twenty something liters.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 75 hours 18 months
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410073#410073
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| Subject: | Re: ADI on android |
umm I wouldn't be so hasty to rubbish it. Technology used to be driven my military
applications; now the leading edge is driven by commodity consumer products.
No company can afford to develop silicon sensors for a few tens of choppers
but they can sell a few million for a WI etc. The sensitivity/quality mostly
comes free in these parts. The nexus has a 50 channel GPS in it (I read somewhere).
It wouldn't surprise me if a tablet wasn't at least as good as many uncertified
EFIS systems.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 75 hours 18 months
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410076#410076
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| Subject: | Re: fuel level sensor under the headrest |
On Oct 8, 2013, at 10:12 AM, graeme bird wrote:
> if its the airworld one; mine did leak slightly when the tank was up
to the filler. I got in a right pickle when sorting it; forgetting
(alter applying gue) that the five holes have to align, in sender,
gasket, tank and nut ring because although they appear equi-distant they
are actually on three different pitches. I also dropped the ring nut
into the tank and a screw (plonker).
> If I had to do it again, I would buy 5 longer screws and replace the
them one at a time allowing the sender and gasket to be lifted and a
small amount of sealer to be applied from around the top. When replacing
the with the right length screws I would add a small blob to each to
seal the clearance hole and thread.
Excellent suggestions Graeme...thank you...Fred
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: fuel level sensor under the headrest |
Graeme
Thanks
How on earth did you get at the blasted thing? Through the little hole in
the headrest?
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of graeme bird
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 12:12
Subject: Europa-List: Re: fuel level sensor under the headrest
if its the airworld one; mine did leak slightly when the tank was up to the
filler. I got in a right pickle when sorting it; forgetting (alter applying
gue) that the five holes have to align, in sender, gasket, tank and nut
ring because although they appear equi-distant they are actually on three
different pitches. I also dropped the ring nut into the tank and a screw
(plonker).
If I had to do it again, I would buy 5 longer screws and replace the them
one at a time allowing the sender and gasket to be lifted and a small amount
of sealer to be applied from around the top. When replacing the with the
right length screws I would add a small blob to each to seal the clearance
hole and thread. Sealer is not required in the tank.
Also you should be aware that because of the tank shape the gauge will read
non linearly and half full will be twenty something liters.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 75 hours 18 months
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410073#410073
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: fuel level sensor under the headrest |
On Oct 8, 2013, at 10:47 AM, William Daniell wrote:
> How on earth did you get at the blasted thing? Through the little
hole in
> the headrest?
Will...my hunch is that w/ a short Phillips head it would indeed be
possible, but I won't be trying unless it proves to be a source of fuel
fumes.
I've also concluded that given a proper guideline, my trusty little
hacksaw w/ its free end would make short work of slicing off the back
rest with a straight and tidy cut, and a 4 layer BID flange w/ a few
nutplates would restore order promptly.
I'll save my agonizing for other occasions,
Fred
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
I have a little Odyssey story:
once I forgot my IBBS (Integrated Battery Backup
System) on for several weeks, which gives juice to
my Gemini ADI (Tru Trak). It went empty and so
went finally my lovely Odyssey. Normally there is
like fixed 12,58 V but now hardly 4 V (four). I
had a must to fly so I elected to fire upp engine
w an external battery. I run the engine say 20
minutes and after that session it was fireable by
Odyssey only. I never noticed any failures in that
brave battery but just in case I ordered a new one
(Odyssey retail shop is just 10 km from here). Now
I have a reserve battery, which is year modell
2006, has been in use 6 years, went totally empty
and still a new like. So far I will carry those
extra kilos happily - want to hear more reports
before updating more modern batt techs.
Cheers, Raimo
OH-XRT
My wife was licensed on Monday with w top ratings.
Now I know how is it to try to sleep w a captain.
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: David Joyce
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2013 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Battery questions
<davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Jim, I have replaced my Odyssey every 5 + years so
you may
not be getting value for money! Regards, David
Joyce,
G-XSDJ
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013 06:03:28 -0700
"h&jeuropa" <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
> "h&jeuropa" <butcher43@att.net>
>
>Fred,
>
> We've used Panasonic LC-RD1217P batteries in our
> Europa since first flight. They are a little
> less expensive than the Oddessy batteries.
> We once purchased a "look alike" battery which
> failed in a few hours!
>
> We do load check the battery every year and find
> we replace it about every two years.
>
> Jim & Heather
> N241BW Mono 914
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409663#409663
>
>
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>Admin.
>
>
browse
Un/Subscription,
FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
Forums!
List Admin.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
Hi!Raimo,
I had two Odyssey 13 amp hour batteries in parallel for starting my 6 pot
Jabiru. For in the region of 9 years and they never faltered . I replaced
them about 3 years ago just because I got "cold feet " with the 914 Rotax
being all electric fuel pumps and replaced them like for like. The old ones
are still used for slave purposes around the workshop and my caravan and
still hold a charge for a long while .
Congrats to Marke on doing her solo flight .
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio
Sent: 08 October 2013 20:33
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Battery questions
I have a little Odyssey story:
once I forgot my IBBS (Integrated Battery Backup
System) on for several weeks, which gives juice to my Gemini ADI (Tru Trak).
It went empty and so went finally my lovely Odyssey. Normally there is like
fixed 12,58 V but now hardly 4 V (four). I had a must to fly so I elected to
fire upp engine w an external battery. I run the engine say 20 minutes and
after that session it was fireable by Odyssey only. I never noticed any
failures in that brave battery but just in case I ordered a new one (Odyssey
retail shop is just 10 km from here). Now I have a reserve battery, which is
year modell 2006, has been in use 6 years, went totally empty and still a
new like. So far I will carry those extra kilos happily - want to hear more
reports before updating more modern batt techs.
Cheers, Raimo
OH-XRT
My wife was licensed on Monday with w top ratings.
Now I know how is it to try to sleep w a captain.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: fuel level sensor under the headrest |
The verdict is "wait and see" and keep a close watch on the filters
Thanks everyone
will
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 12:40
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: fuel level sensor under the headrest
On Oct 8, 2013, at 10:12 AM, graeme bird wrote:
if its the airworld one; mine did leak slightly when the tank was up to the
filler. I got in a right pickle when sorting it; forgetting (alter applying
gue) that the five holes have to align, in sender, gasket, tank and nut
ring because although they appear equi-distant they are actually on three
different pitches. I also dropped the ring nut into the tank and a screw
(plonker).
If I had to do it again, I would buy 5 longer screws and replace the them
one at a time allowing the sender and gasket to be lifted and a small amount
of sealer to be applied from around the top. When replacing the with the
right length screws I would add a small blob to each to seal the clearance
hole and thread.
Excellent suggestions Graeme...thank you...Fred
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
Raimo,
I too have been known, on a rare occasion, to leave the master on. I think I've
done that three times in the last 5 years. First two times it was with an Odyssey
680. First time it happened I put a charger on it and it came back like
new. About 18 months later I did it again. Put the charger on it and it came
back. But this time I was concerned so I replaced it with a new Odyssey and
put the old Odyssey in an old Jeep we use at the hunting lease. It worked in
that Jeep for about 4 years till my hunting bud left the key on for about 6
months. That pretty much killed it. Meanwhile, this spring, I replaced the Odyssey
in the Europa with a tiny little, very light (and very expensive) LiFePo
battery. The Odyssey I took out went into the Jeep. The new LiFePo battery
seemed to work quite well for starting and running. Eventually, I did a run-down
test to see how long it would operate the EFIS, EIS, Radio & Xponder. Turned
out, not very long. After about 10 minutes things started dropping off.
I recharged & balanced the LiFePo battery overnight and it was fine the next
day. BTW, I kept the charger/balancer on whenever the aircraft was in the hanger.
Flew a couple times over the next week and parked it to do more testing.
This time I went off leaving the master on (with the charger attached, btw).
Next day, the battery was DEAD. And I mean DEAD. Would not accept a charge.
I put a new Odyssey back in the aircraft and plan to stick with them from now
on.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Oct 8, 2013, at 2:32 PM, Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
I have a little Odyssey story:
once I forgot my IBBS (Integrated Battery Backup System) on for several weeks,
which gives juice to my Gemini ADI (Tru Trak). It went empty and so went finally
my lovely Odyssey. Normally there is like fixed 12,58 V but now hardly 4 V
(four). I had a must to fly so I elected to fire upp engine w an external battery.
I run the engine say 20 minutes and after that session it was fireable by
Odyssey only. I never noticed any failures in that brave battery but just in
case I ordered a new one (Odyssey retail shop is just 10 km from here). Now I
have a reserve battery, which is year modell 2006, has been in use 6 years, went
totally empty and still a new like. So far I will carry those extra kilos happily
- want to hear more reports before updating more modern batt techs.
Cheers, Raimo
OH-XRT
My wife was licensed on Monday with w top ratings. Now I know how is it to try
to sleep w a captain.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Hi Paul.
This is getting a bit confusing, I have thousands of hours on instruments, and
at my age I only fly in good weather, and have no intension of flying in IMC in
a Europa, and I do have the Placard in the aircraft.
Its is not me doing the IMC Rating, its another pilot, or other pilots.
I was only trying to be helpful in pointing out that the hours towards an IMC rating
carried out on a Europa may not count towards the rating.
So better check it out. I see no reason why you cannot practice instrument flying
with a check pilot or instructor, but I don,t think ? the hours will count
towards the rating, ??? Its not for me to find out.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410096#410096
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
They do count.
Kevin Challis
On 8 Oct 2013, at 21:55, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul.
> This is getting a bit confusing, I have thousands of hours on instruments, and
at my age I only fly in good weather, and have no intension of flying in IMC
in a Europa, and I do have the Placard in the aircraft.
> Its is not me doing the IMC Rating, its another pilot, or other pilots.
> I was only trying to be helpful in pointing out that the hours towards an IMC
rating carried out on a Europa may not count towards the rating.
> So better check it out. I see no reason why you cannot practice instrument flying
with a check pilot or instructor, but I don,t think ? the hours will count
towards the rating, ??? Its not for me to find out.
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410096#410096
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Hello Kevin
Well that's the Answer,
So my Examiner was wrong, I will tell him.
Regards.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410098#410098
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| Subject: | Re: SB15-v- clamps |
Hi Danny,
Sounds like you had an easy fit, mine was a sod of a job maybe Pat told you.
Yes he is a very nice Chap.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410099#410099
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| Subject: | Re: SB15-v- clamps |
Yep, everything went smoothly:-) .
Danny.
On 08/10/2013 22:15, Alan Carter wrote:
>
> Hi Danny,
> Sounds like you had an easy fit, mine was a sod of a job maybe Pat told you.
> Yes he is a very nice Chap.
> Alan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410099#410099
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
WoW Bob,
that was a story which was expected.
If somebody has an obsession to update for a
LiFePo style battery, I would carry always omboard
a spare one (or have a dual system and not forget
a 2nd master on).
10 minutes is an awful short time to have
electricitet in the case alt/chg failure - that is
an another reason to have a dual system (if you
are a LiFePo - user boy).
Cheers, Raimo
-----Alkuperinen viesti-----
From: Robert Borger
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Battery questions
<rlborger@mac.com>
Raimo,
I too have been known, on a rare occasion, to
leave the master on. I think I've done that three
times in the last 5 years. First two times it was
with an Odyssey 680. First time it happened I put
a charger on it and it came back like new. About
18 months later I did it again. Put the charger
on it and it came back. But this time I was
concerned so I replaced it with a new Odyssey and
put the old Odyssey in an old Jeep we use at the
hunting lease. It worked in that Jeep for about 4
years till my hunting bud left the key on for
about 6 months. That pretty much killed it.
Meanwhile, this spring, I replaced the Odyssey in
the Europa with a tiny little, very light (and
very expensive) LiFePo battery. The Odyssey I
took out went into the Jeep. The new LiFePo
battery seemed to work quite well for starting and
running. Eventually, I did a run-down test to see
how long it would operate the EFIS, EIS, Radio &
Xponder. Turned out, not very long. After about
10 minutes thi!
ngs started dropping off. I recharged & balanced
the LiFePo battery overnight and it was fine the
next day. BTW, I kept the charger/balancer on
whenever the aircraft was in the hanger. Flew a
couple times over the next week and parked it to
do more testing. This time I went off leaving the
master on (with the charger attached, btw). Next
day, the battery was DEAD. And I mean DEAD.
Would not accept a charge. I put a new Odyssey
back in the aircraft and plan to stick with them
from now on.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt
AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Oct 8, 2013, at 2:32 PM, Raimo Toivio
<raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
<raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
I have a little Odyssey story:
once I forgot my IBBS (Integrated Battery Backup
System) on for several weeks, which gives juice to
my Gemini ADI (Tru Trak). It went empty and so
went finally my lovely Odyssey. Normally there is
like fixed 12,58 V but now hardly 4 V (four). I
had a must to fly so I elected to fire upp engine
w an external battery. I run the engine say 20
minutes and after that session it was fireable by
Odyssey only. I never noticed any failures in that
brave battery but just in case I ordered a new one
(Odyssey retail shop is just 10 km from here). Now
I have a reserve battery, which is year modell
2006, has been in use 6 years, went totally empty
and still a new like. So far I will carry those
extra kilos happily - want to hear more reports
before updating more modern batt techs.
Cheers, Raimo
OH-XRT
My wife was licensed on Monday with w top ratings.
Now I know how is it to try to sleep w a captain.
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