Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:44 AM - Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Alan Carter)
2. 11:53 AM - Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks (houlihan)
3. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Kevin Challis)
4. 12:11 PM - Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Alan Carter)
5. 12:14 PM - =?utf-8?B?UmU6IEV1cm9wYS1MaXN0OiBSZTogU3ViIFBhbmVscy4uLi50aGFua3M=? (=?utf-8?B?cGV0ZUBsYXdsZXNzLmluZm8=?=)
6. 12:24 PM - NDB Let downs (Gerry Holland)
7. 12:31 PM - Re: NDB Let downs (DAVID JOYCE)
8. 12:33 PM - Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks (DAVID JOYCE)
9. 12:38 PM - Re: NDB Let downs (houlihan)
10. 12:40 PM - Re: NDB Let downs (Alan Carter)
11. 12:56 PM - Re: NDB Let downs (Gerry Holland)
12. 02:18 PM - Fan Panel, maybe helpfull to those who are not builders (Alan Carter)
13. 02:34 PM - Re: Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Kevin Challis)
14. 02:43 PM - Re: Fan Panel, maybe helpfull to those who are not builders (Fred Klein)
15. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Kevin Challis)
16. 03:00 PM - Re: {Spam?} Re: Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Pete Lawless)
17. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Bob Hitchcock)
18. 09:55 PM - Re: {Spam?} Re: Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Kevin Challis)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Hi,
Met my Examiner friend today, and he said the IMC rating is a 15 course with a
test and written examine , it must be done on an aircraft with a C of A, with
the appropriate equipment including a VOR and ADF, also you can not even do it
on an American registered aircraft even with the gear, guess he had someone who
wanted to do one on a N reg, and checked it out
He seemed quit confident in his facts, I am just posting his comments not mine
as I have not checked myself.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410429#410429
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Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Hi Alan.
So you can't do it on a current C172 ?
ADF is so last century I doubt if any aircraft made this century has a VOR
and ADF.
BTW Airbus 319;s certainly do not have either a VOR or an ADF.
I could be wrong but.
tim
On 13 October 2013 19:43, Alan Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
> >
>
> Hi,
> Met my Examiner friend today, and he said the IMC rating is a 15 course
> with a test and written examine , it must be done on an aircraft with a C
> of A, with the appropriate equipment including a VOR and ADF, also you can
> not even do it on an American registered aircraft even with the gear, guess
> he had someone who wanted to do one on a N reg, and checked it out
> He seemed quit confident in his facts, I am just posting his comments not
> mine as I have not checked myself.
> Alan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410429#410429
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
I have just completed the IMC on my Europa.
Kev
On 13 Oct 2013, at 20:43, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Met my Examiner friend today, and he said the IMC rating is a 15 course with
a test and written examine , it must be done on an aircraft with a C of A, with
the appropriate equipment including a VOR and ADF, also you can not even do
it on an American registered aircraft even with the gear, guess he had someone
who wanted to do one on a N reg, and checked it out
> He seemed quit confident in his facts, I am just posting his comments not mine
as I have not checked myself.
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410429#410429
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Hi Kevin.
Well congratulations in passing the test, I must say I find it hard to believe
my Examiner is wrong, as he is usually right, I am going back to him with my tail
between my legs.
Many thanks.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410434#410434
Message 5
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bi4
Message 6
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|
A local Ryan Air Captain here tells me that he does NDB letdowns
regularly as some of their destinations are not ILS equipped.
I'm presuming it's probably the same with EasyJet.
The young lad in my Hangar just gone professional and now has his CPL/IR
(self funded!) and the IR certainly involved NDB letdowns.
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
gholland@content-stream.co.uk
+44 (0)7808 402404
White Ox Mead Airstrip, Bath. England
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: NDB Let downs |
NDB usage is certainly part of the UK IMC test and training. VOR is also of
course part of it.=0A-=0AAnd to finalise this discussion it is not legal
to fly in IMC or train on our LAA permit Europa aircraft! which are cleare
d for daylight VFR use only.=0A-=0Argds=0ADavid Joyce=0AThe other one....
=0A=0ASent to you from David Joyce=0Awww.eastmidsspas.com=0A=0A =0A=0A_____
___________________________=0A From: Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream
.co.uk>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 13 October 2013, 2
1:24=0ASubject: Europa-List: NDB Let downs=0A =0A=0A=0AA local Ryan Air Ca
ptain here tells me that he does NDB letdowns regularly as some of their de
stinations are not ILS equipped.=0AI'm presuming it's probably the same wit
h EasyJet.=0AThe young lad in my Hangar just gone professional and now has
his CPL/IR (self funded!) and the IR certainly involved NDB letdowns.=0AReg
ards=0AGerry=0AGerry Holland=0A=0Agholland@content-stream.co.uk=0A+44 (0)78
08 402404=0A=0AWhite Ox Mead Airstrip, Bath. England
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Wouldn't advertise this to the CAA=0A-=0A......=0A=0ASent to you from Dav
id Joyce=0Awww.eastmidsspas.com=0A=0A =0A=0A_______________________________
_=0A From: Kevin Challis <kevinmarie@blueyonder.co.uk>=0ATo: "europa-list@m
atronics.com" <europa-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Sunday, 13 October 2013,
19:55=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....thanks=0A =0A=0A--> E
uropa-List message posted by: Kevin Challis <kevinmarie@blueyonder.co.uk>
=0A=0AI have just completed the IMC on my Europa.=0A=0AKev=0A=0A=0AOn 13 Oc
t 2013, at 20:43, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:=0A=0A> --
=0A> =0A> Hi,=0A> Met my Examiner friend today, and he said the IMC rating
is a 15 course with a test and written examine , it must be done on an airc
raft with a C of A, with the appropriate equipment including a VOR and ADF,
also you can not even do it on an American registered aircraft even with t
he gear, guess he had someone who wanted to do one on a N reg, and checked
it out=0A> He seemed quit confident in his facts, I am just posting his com
ments not mine as I have not checked myself.=0A> Alan=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>
=0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronics.com/view
topic.php?p=410429#410429=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A
==================
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: NDB Let downs |
Hi Gerry.
I bet you will find that his Ryanair bomber has a simulated ADF derived
from INS and GPS systems I doubt they have an ADF receiver fitted.
Knowing Ryanair I bet they charge the crew to use the equipment installed.
Tim
On 13 October 2013 21:24, Gerry Holland <gholland@content-stream.co.uk>wrote:
> A local Ryan Air Captain here tells me that he does NDB letdowns regularly
> as some of their destinations are not ILS equipped.
> I'm presuming it's probably the same with EasyJet.
> The young lad in my Hangar just gone professional and now has his CPL/IR
> (self funded!) and the IR certainly involved NDB letdowns.
> Regards
> Gerry
>
> *Gerry Holland*
> *gholland@content-stream.co.uk
> +44 (0)7808 402404*
>
> *
> White Ox Mead Airstrip, Bath. England*
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: NDB Let downs |
Hi.
No problem with NDB approaches, a higher minima in ALT and Vis are used.
Sometimes it VFR only landing, with an instrument approach with a break off height,
then circle to land, often in mountainous terrain.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410441#410441
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: NDB Let downs |
Tim Hi!
You could be right on all counts!
They seem to be fitted with Honeywell Quantum Line which does have VOR and ADF
in the range somehow.
Regards
Gerry
Message 12
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Subject: | Fan Panel, maybe helpfull to those who are not builders |
Hello All.
I am posting this article mainly for the Europa owner who have not built there
aircraft and have limited tools,
Just a Ruler, Hammer, Hack Saw ,Drill and Files, and about 8 to 16 hours of time.
I also thing it would be nice if others posted and shared little projects and
ideas to do with the Europa.
I have a converted Classic to Tri gear the builder used lock nuts and bolts on
the instrument sub panels, as i work totally on my own with little confidence
i did not want to remove the whole instrument panel.
So cut a hole in the top of the instrument panel big enough to get my hand down,
i practised first by cutting different size panels in a cardboard box , this
end up with me choosing
a panel size of two 92 mm fans as i could then remove my instrument if needed through
the hole, I ended up being able to remove the lock nuts and re make my
main instrument main sub panel
removable, however my little fan panel hole is still very useful.
Two 92 mm Fans, Two Fan grills, Piece of alloy sheet, 6 Allen Bolts and lock nuts,
Araldite, and maybe some little bits of Wood.
You can my parts in Photo,
Mark out and Cut the letter box out, with an opening to take the two fans.
Mark out and Make the Fan plate, mark out and cut out the shapes,
Drill the holes and fit the Fans and grills, to the plate.
Drop into letter box and drill fixing holes for Allen bolts, Allen bolts are used
as you can remove with the windscreen in place.
To anchor these bolts, i used a strip of alloy drilling and filing the shape of
each of the six nuts in the strip and bonding with Araldite.
As the fans are 25 mm in depth i had to raise the fan plate about 1/4 by Aralditing
a strip of wood round the edge to raise the fan clear of an instrument.
Clean up and paint,
Does not look much but it took me about 8 hours so far.
Then.
Mask Windscreen , work carefully use letter box to mark, then cut hole, thought
this was plastic, Stanley Knife did not work, ended up cutting with half an hack
Saw Blade
small file, and sand paper,its actually made of Glass Fibre and a bit tougher than
i thought.
Make the six fixing holes in Glass fibre, then slid Letter Box underside and Araldite
up, hold in place with bull dog clips,
When set screw in Fan plate and wire up.
Serves two purposes, maintenance panel and demister,
I hope this is useful and of help to some none builders.
The other bit is my FFM Panel goes in where the gear lever was,
Cardboard denotes skin.
Regards.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410443#410443
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cimg1086_477.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cimg1089_204.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cimg1089_194.jpg
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Still NDB, SRA, DME ARC, ILS using ADF, VOR, DME. But NOT GPS. Even though I
understand they are switching These aids are off in the future.
Kev
On 13 Oct 2013, at 21:14, "pete@lawless.info" <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
> Congratulations Kev
>
> What sort of IFR approaches do you have to fly these days? presumably you
were not required to fly an ndb - the vintage nonsence we used to have to p
erform.
>
> Pete
>
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Kevin Challis" <kevinmarie@blueyonder.co.uk>
> To: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....thanks
> Date: Sun, Oct 13, 2013 19:55
>
.uk>
>
> I have just completed the IMC on my Europa.
>
> Kev
>
>
> On 13 Oct 2013, at 20:43, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>
et>
> >
> > Hi,
> > Met my Examiner friend today, and he said the IMC rating is a 15 course w
ith a test and written examine , it must be done on an aircraft with a C of A
, with the appropriate equipment including a VOR and ADF, also you can not e
ven do it on an American registered aircraft even with the gear, guess he ha
d someone who wanted to do one on a N reg, and checked it out
> > He seemed quit confident in his facts, I am just posting his comments no
t mine as I have not checked myself.
> > Alan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410429#410429
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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=A2{=7F=C2=C2=B7=C2n=A1r=C3=BE=1Bf
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Fan Panel, maybe helpfull to those who are not builders |
Alan,
Impeccable work...makes me wonder what a whole plane under your hand would be like...
Envious that you're flying,
Fred
On Oct 13, 2013, at 2:17 PM, Alan Carter wrote:
>
> Hello All.
> I am posting this article mainly for the Europa owner who have not built there
aircraft and have limited tools,
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
You don't have to be in IMC to train, you use a Sight limiting device I used
plastic glasses that only allow you to see the panel.
It would be illegal to fly in cloud in a Europa but if I get stuck I would p
refer to break the law and land than crash! The IMC is a get out of trouble r
ating anyway.
Kev
On 13 Oct 2013, at 23:34, Kevin Challis <kevinmarie@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Still NDB, SRA, DME ARC, ILS using ADF, VOR, DME. But NOT GPS. Even though
I understand they are switching These aids are off in the future.
>
> Kev
>
>
> On 13 Oct 2013, at 21:14, "pete@lawless.info" <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
>
>> Congratulations Kev
>>
>> What sort of IFR approaches do you have to fly these days? presumably yo
u were not required to fly an ndb - the vintage nonsence we used to have to p
erform.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
>> ----- Reply message -----
>> From: "Kevin Challis" <kevinmarie@blueyonder.co.uk>
>> To: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....thanks
>> Date: Sun, Oct 13, 2013 19:55
>>
o.uk>
>>
>> I have just completed the IMC on my Europa.
>>
>> Kev
>>
>>
>> On 13 Oct 2013, at 20:43, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>>
net>
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> > Met my Examiner friend today, and he said the IMC rating is a 15 course
with a test and written examine , it must be done on an aircraft with a C o
f A, with the appropriate equipment including a VOR and ADF, also you can no
t even do it on an American registered aircraft even with the gear, guess he
had someone who wanted to do one on a N reg, and checked it out
>> > He seemed quit confident in his facts, I am just posting his comments n
ot mine as I have not checked myself.
>> > Alan
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410429#410429
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> =========================
=========
>> tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>> =========================
=========
>> cs.com
>> =========================
=========
>> matronics.com/contribution
>> =========================
=========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>> dangerous content by Houxou, and is
>> believed to be clean.
>>
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>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Kev
What have you got installed by way of avionics in the aeroplane? Sounds
like you have a full fit.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Challis
Sent: 13 October 2013 22:34
Subject: {Spam?} Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub
Panels....thanks
Still NDB, SRA, DME ARC, ILS using ADF, VOR, DME. But NOT GPS. Even
though I understand they are switching These aids are off in the future.
Kev
On 13 Oct 2013, at 21:14, "pete@lawless.info" <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
Congratulations Kev
What sort of IFR approaches do you have to fly these days? presumably
you were not required to fly an ndb - the vintage nonsence we used to
have to perform.
Pete
----- Reply message -----
From: "Kevin Challis" <kevinmarie@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....thanks
<kevinmarie@blueyonder.co.uk>
I have just completed the IMC on my Europa.
Kev
On 13 Oct 2013, at 20:43, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net>
wrote:
<alancarteresq@onetel.net>
>
> Hi,
> Met my Examiner friend today, and he said the IMC rating is a 15
course with a test and written examine , it must be done on an aircraft
with a C of A, with the appropriate equipment including a VOR and ADF,
also you can not even do it on an American registered aircraft even with
the gear, guess he had someone who wanted to do one on a N reg, and
checked it out
> He seemed quit confident in his facts, I am just posting his comments
not mine as I have not checked myself.
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410429#410429
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
=========
tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
=========
cs.com
=========
matronics.com/contribution
=========
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by Houxou, and is
believed to be clean.
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Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/2012/Magazine/July/instruments%20q
ualifications.pdf
On 13 Oct 2013, at 22:48, Kevin Challis <kevinmarie@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> You don't have to be in IMC to train, you use a Sight limiting device I us
ed plastic glasses that only allow you to see the panel.
>
> It would be illegal to fly in cloud in a Europa but if I get stuck I would
prefer to break the law and land than crash! The IMC is a get out of troubl
e rating anyway.
>
> Kev
>
>
> On 13 Oct 2013, at 23:34, Kevin Challis <kevinmarie@blueyonder.co.uk> wrot
e:
>
>> Still NDB, SRA, DME ARC, ILS using ADF, VOR, DME. But NOT GPS. Even thoug
h I understand they are switching These aids are off in the future.
>>
>> Kev
>>
>>
>> On 13 Oct 2013, at 21:14, "pete@lawless.info" <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
>>
>>> Congratulations Kev
>>>
>>> What sort of IFR approaches do you have to fly these days? presumably y
ou were not required to fly an ndb - the vintage nonsence we used to have to
perform.
>>>
>>> Pete
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>> From: "Kevin Challis" <kevinmarie@blueyonder.co.uk>
>>> To: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europa-list@matronics.com>
>>> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....thanks
>>> Date: Sun, Oct 13, 2013 19:55
>>>
co.uk>
>>>
>>> I have just completed the IMC on my Europa.
>>>
>>> Kev
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13 Oct 2013, at 20:43, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote
:
>>>
.net>
>>> >
>>> > Hi,
>>> > Met my Examiner friend today, and he said the IMC rating is a 15 cours
e with a test and written examine , it must be done on an aircraft with a C o
f A, with the appropriate equipment including a VOR and ADF, also you can no
t even do it on an American registered aircraft even with the gear, guess he
had someone who wanted to do one on a N reg, and checked it out
>>> > He seemed quit confident in his facts, I am just posting his comments n
ot mine as I have not checked myself.
>>> > Alan
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Read this topic online here:
>>> >
>>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410429#410429
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> ========================
>>> tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>>> ========================
>>> cs.com
>>> ========================
>>> matronics.com/contribution
>>> ========================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>>> dangerous content by Houxou, and is
>>> believed to be clean.
>>>
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Subject: | Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Pete
I am very poor, I didn't build the plane. The previous owner / builder was v
ery rich and fitted the plane out with ILS, VOR, DME etc. Unfortunately he d
idn't seem to spend very much on the paint job but I bought it for a good pr
ice so I can't moan.
Kev
On 13 Oct 2013, at 23:59, "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
> Kev
>
> What have you got installed by way of avionics in the aeroplane? =C3=82 So
unds like you have a full fit.
>
> Pete
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser
ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Challis
> Sent: 13 October 2013 22:34
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: {Spam?} Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....thank
s
>
> =C3=82 Still NDB, SRA, DME ARC, ILS using ADF, VOR, DME. But NOT GPS. Even
though I understand they are switching These aids are off in the future.
>
> Kev
>
>
> On 13 Oct 2013, at 21:14, "pete@lawless.info" <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
>
>> Congratulations Kev
>>
>> What sort of IFR approaches do you have to fly these days? presumably yo
u were not required to fly an ndb - the vintage nonsence we used to have to p
erform.
>>
>> Pete
>>
>>
>> ----- Reply message -----
>> From: "Kevin Challis" <kevinmarie@blueyonder.co.uk>
>> To: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....thanks
>> Date: Sun, Oct 13, 2013 19:55
>>
>>
o.uk>
>>
>> I have just completed the IMC on my Europa.
>>
>> Kev
>>
>>
>> On 13 Oct 2013, at 20:43, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>>
net>
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> > Met my Examiner friend today, and he said the IMC rating is a 15 course
with a test and written examine , it must be done on an aircraft with a C o
f A, with the appropriate equipment including a VOR and ADF, also you can no
t even do it on an American registered aircraft even with the gear, guess he
had someone who wanted to do one on a N reg, and checked it out
>> > He seemed quit confident in his facts, I am just posting his comments n
ot mine as I have not checked myself.
>> > Alan
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410429#410429
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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=========
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>> =========================
=========
>> cs.com
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
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>>
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>
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