Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:13 AM - Re: Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Pete Lawless)
2. 02:37 AM - Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Alan Carter)
3. 03:02 AM - Re: Fan Panel, maybe helpfull to those who are not builders (Alan Carter)
4. 03:08 AM - Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Alan Burrill)
5. 03:37 AM - Re: Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Kevin Challis)
6. 03:55 AM - Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Alan Carter)
7. 04:55 AM - Re: {Fraud?} {Disarmed} Re: Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Pete Lawless)
8. 07:04 AM - IMC training in Europa [was: Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks] (Rowland Carson)
9. 08:47 AM - Re: IMC training in Europa [was: Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks] (Brian Davies)
10. 09:23 AM - Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Alan Carter)
11. 09:31 AM - Mine's Pink! (Scudrunner)
12. 09:38 AM - Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Alan Carter)
13. 09:55 AM - FW: IMC training in Europa [was: Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks] (Brian Davies)
14. 10:01 AM - Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Brian Davies)
15. 10:22 AM - IMC training in Europa [was: Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks] (Rowland Carson)
16. 10:25 AM - Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks (David Watts)
17. 10:44 AM - First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic (Manfred Jann)
18. 10:44 AM - Re: IMC training in Europa [was: Re: Re: Sub Panels....thanks] (Alan Burrill)
19. 11:11 AM - Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic (Robert Borger)
20. 11:22 AM - Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic (Pete)
21. 11:30 AM - Re: Mine's Pink! (Pete Lawless)
22. 11:47 AM - Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic (Pete)
23. 11:51 AM - Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic (Fred Klein)
24. 12:13 PM - Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic (Bob Harrison)
25. 12:13 PM - IMC training in Europa [was: Re: Sub Panels....thanks] (Alan Carter)
26. 02:15 PM - Re: IMC training in Europa [was: Re: Sub Panels....thanks] (David Watts)
27. 02:16 PM - Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic (graeme bird)
28. 02:17 PM - Re: Sub Panels....thanks (Alan Carter)
29. 02:52 PM - Re: Mine's Pink! (spcialeffects)
30. 03:03 PM - Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic (Bob Hitchcock)
31. 03:15 PM - Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic (Karl Heindl)
32. 03:23 PM - Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
33. 03:40 PM - Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic (rob zeelenberg)
34. 06:27 PM - Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic (Ivan Shaw)
35. 07:07 PM - Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic (Michel)
36. 10:57 PM - Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic (Richard Wheelwright)
37. 11:54 PM - Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic (gtagr)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Morning Kev
I am amazed all that kit must weigh a ton! Be inclined to sell it and
replace with a couple of GPS. You would probably have money left over
towards a respray.
Regards
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Challis
Sent: 14 October 2013 05:51
Subject: Re: {Spam?} Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub
Panels....thanks
Pete
I am very poor, I didn't build the plane. The previous owner / builder was
very rich and fitted the plane out with ILS, VOR, DME etc. Unfortunately he
didn't seem to spend very much on the paint job but I bought it for a good
price so I can't moan.
Kev
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Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Hello All.
I am get very confused here, but that's not unusually for me.
I have again spoken to my Examiner, he said he is an Instructor/Examiner with over
40 years experience, and he has justs said you can-not do an IMC on a permit
aircraft, and if you have done your 15 hours on a Europa the CAA will throw
it back at you.
You can fly around under the hood in your Europa practising IMC with an instructor
but you can not log it towards an IMC rating.
He said the Aircraft must have a Private C of A or a Public C of A
and you can not even do it on an American Registered Aircraft.
He is absolutely sure of himself. What more can I say.!!!, I am beginning to feel
that I am making all of this up.
So please can anybody out there verify if he is correct or not as I am bewildered
as both are adamant they are right.
Because if he is not correct, in his facts,( but the sod usually always is correct
in his facts)
We can all do IMC ratings using our Europa's.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410478#410478
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Subject: | Re: Fan Panel, maybe helpfull to those who are not builders |
Hi All.
Thanks for your kind words Fred, but I am not doing much flying at the moment
,
INPORTATANT.
I have had a couple of e-mails asking about cutting the hole in the top of the
instrument panel.
I would not like anybody to damage there aircraft so be careful, your hand will
rub again the windscreen when cutting and even a small fragment on your skin
will mark the perspecs of the screen.
So protect the area with a piece of cardboard , and use a good light to see what
you are doing.
use a Tool of you choice, but a simple half hack saw blade will do, rub back and
forth will slowly penetrate the surface, once through its cut easy.
Remember to cut with the saw teeth on the pulling stroke,
Remember to keep the blade very shallow angle, as you don't want to cut anything
that you can not see on the other side of the panel.
Its easy to do ,just a bit slow,
If you wanted and felt confident you could loosen and move the whole instrument
panel forward an inch or two, but I managed without doing this
OK.
Regards.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410480#410480
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Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
I suggest people read AIC W 001/2011 and specifically para 4.4.2 which related
to the subject under discussion.
Cannot post an extract on my phone.
Alan Burrill
Sent from my iPhone
> On 14 Oct 2013, at 10:36, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hello All.
> I am get very confused here, but that's not unusually for me.
> I have again spoken to my Examiner, he said he is an Instructor/Examiner with
over 40 years experience, and he has justs said you can-not do an IMC on a permit
aircraft, and if you have done your 15 hours on a Europa the CAA will throw
it back at you.
> You can fly around under the hood in your Europa practising IMC with an instructor
but you can not log it towards an IMC rating.
> He said the Aircraft must have a Private C of A or a Public C of A
> and you can not even do it on an American Registered Aircraft.
> He is absolutely sure of himself. What more can I say.!!!, I am beginning to
feel that I am making all of this up.
>
> So please can anybody out there verify if he is correct or not as I am bewildered
as both are adamant they are right.
>
> Because if he is not correct, in his facts,( but the sod usually always is correct
in his facts)
> We can all do IMC ratings using our Europa's.
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410478#410478
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
It's got 2 GPS's as well!
Kev
On 14 Oct 2013, at 11:12, "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
> Morning Kev
>
> I am amazed all that kit must weigh a ton! Be inclined to sell it and rep
lace with a couple of GPS. You would probably have money left over towards a
respray.
>
> Regards
>
> Pete
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser
ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Challis
> Sent: 14 October 2013 05:51
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: {Spam?} Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....t
hanks
>
> Pete
>
> I am very poor, I didn't build the plane. The previous owner / builder was
very rich and fitted the plane out with ILS, VOR, DME etc. Unfortunately he
didn't seem to spend very much on the paint job but I bought it for a good p
rice so I can't moan.
>
> Kev
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
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Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Try reading, Ow Yer,
OOOPs Google Link Broken.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410485#410485
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Well no excuse for getting lost then!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Challis
Sent: 14 October 2013 11:34
Subject: {Fraud?} {Disarmed} Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub
Panels....thanks
It's got 2 GPS's as well!
Kev
On 14 Oct 2013, at 11:12, "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info> wrote:
Morning Kev
I am amazed all that kit must weigh a ton! Be inclined to sell it and
replace with a couple of GPS. You would probably have money left over
towards a respray.
Regards
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Challis
Sent: 14 October 2013 05:51
Subject: Re: {Spam?} Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub
Panels....thanks
Pete
I am very poor, I didn't build the plane. The previous owner / builder
was
very rich and fitted the plane out with ILS, VOR, DME etc. Unfortunately
he
didn't seem to spend very much on the paint job but I bought it for a
good
price so I can't moan.
Kev
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
"3d"http:" claiming to be http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
"3d"http:" claiming to be http://www.matronics.com/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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|
Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks] |
On 14 Oct 2013, at 11:07, Alan Burrill wrote:
> I suggest people read AIC W 001/2011 and specifically para 4.4.2 which related
to the subject under discussion.
>
> Cannot post an extract on my phone.
You can see all the AICs at:
http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=159&Itemid=56.html
and can choose W 001/2011 from the 2011 section.
Here's the bit that Alan refers to pasted in:
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
4.4 Operating under a Permit to Fly
4.4.1 A General Exemption (ORS4 No. 802) and a Permission (ORS4 No. 803) have been
issued to allow owners of a jointly-owned private aircraft operating under
a Permit to Fly to pay for instruction in their aircraft with the following conditions
and limitations:
a. The exemption does not apply to gyroplanes or ex-military aircraft.
b. The person undergoing the training must hold a licence that entitles them to
act as pilot in command of the aircraft or would entitle them except that they
need to fly with an instructor to obtain a Certificate of Test, Experience or
Revalidation and the purpose of the flight is to gain such a certificate.
c. The aircraft must be owned or operated by or under arrangements entered into
with a flying club, of which the person giving the instruction and the person
receiving the instruction are both members.
4.4.2 Therefore, owners of jointly owned non-EASA aircraft operating under a Permit
to Fly can pay for training in their aircraft provided that the conditions
in paragraph 4.4.1 have been met.
Note: Training for the initial issue of an NPPL, PPL, CPL, IMC Rating, Instrument
Rating or other 'ab initio' training is not permitted. The intention is to
allow individuals to pay for training that enables them to regain currency, renew
a licence, learn a new skill (such as short field landings) or become familiar
with a new type etc.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
So, yes, in the UK you can have and pay for instruction in your group-owned Europa,
but NOT for a new licence or rating. Thus IF it was a jointly-owned machine,
the advice to another poster not to tell the CAA that he trained for his IMC
in a Europa would appear to be wise, if he doesn't want the book thrown at
him and probably lose his rating.
However, section 4.4 applies only to jointly-owned permit types. The section for
sole ownership is slightly different and does not exclude training for initial
issue of a licence or rating.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
3 Solely-owned non-EASA Aircraft
3.1 Article 259(2) of the Air Navigation Order (ANO) 2009 states that 'If the only
such valuable consideration consists of remuneration for the services of the
pilot, the flight is deemed to be a private flight for the purposes of Part
3 and Part 4'.
3.2 The result of this is that a person who owns an aircraft outright and does
not have to pay for anything else in relation to the flight is permitted to pay
an instructor for training in their private aircraft. Likewise, a person who
has free use of an aircraft is also permitted to pay an instructor for training
in the aircraft, although this situation usually only arises when a close friend
or member of the owner's family wishes to use the aircraft.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
The difference in the rules between joint and sole ownership is also made clear
in the flowchart at Appendix A of the document, where no conditions are applied
to training in sole-owned permit machines.
I can see that there is some opportunity for confusion, but it appears that everyone
who expressed an opinion on this topic was correct to some degree!
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
| pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson
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|
Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks] |
LAA Technical Leaflet 2.09 says
Initial Licence or Rating
2. An owner may receive remunerated (or un-remunerated) flight training
towards an initial
licence or rating in his own LAA aircraft provided he is a 'sole' owner and
not part of a group
ownership. (Direct family members of the owner's immediate family are also
acceptable).
3. The solo part of the PPL syllabus can be carried out in a single seat LAA
aircraft as long as
the aircraft is similar to that being used for dual instruction, is suitably
equipped, and the
instructor is satisfied that it is compatible with accepted flight training
practices.
4. 'Simulated' instrument training as required by the PPL syllabus, and
training towards the IMC
or IR(R) rating is acceptable in a LAA aircraft provided it is suitably
equipped.
5. Examination, as required by the PPL syllabus, may be carried out in a LAA
aircraft, but only
if un-remunerated. The aircraft must also be suitably equipped.
In order to get a further interpretation of this situation I have asked Jon
Cooke the Chairman of the LAA Pilot Coaching scheme to comment further. I
will post his reply as soon as it arrives.
Brian Davies
LAA board member
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland Carson
Sent: 14 October 2013 15:02
Subject: IMC training in Europa [was: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub
Panels....thanks]
--> <rowlandcarson@gmail.com>
On 14 Oct 2013, at 11:07, Alan Burrill wrote:
> I suggest people read AIC W 001/2011 and specifically para 4.4.2 which
related to the subject under discussion.
>
> Cannot post an extract on my phone.
You can see all the AICs at:
http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blo
gcategory&id=159&Itemid=56.html
and can choose W 001/2011 from the 2011 section.
Here's the bit that Alan refers to pasted in:
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
4.4 Operating under a Permit to Fly
4.4.1 A General Exemption (ORS4 No. 802) and a Permission (ORS4 No. 803)
have been issued to allow owners of a jointly-owned private aircraft
operating under a Permit to Fly to pay for instruction in their aircraft
with the following conditions and limitations:
a. The exemption does not apply to gyroplanes or ex-military aircraft.
b. The person undergoing the training must hold a licence that entitles them
to act as pilot in command of the aircraft or would entitle them except that
they need to fly with an instructor to obtain a Certificate of Test,
Experience or Revalidation and the purpose of the flight is to gain such a
certificate.
c. The aircraft must be owned or operated by or under arrangements entered
into with a flying club, of which the person giving the instruction and the
person receiving the instruction are both members.
4.4.2 Therefore, owners of jointly owned non-EASA aircraft operating under a
Permit to Fly can pay for training in their aircraft provided that the
conditions in paragraph 4.4.1 have been met.
Note: Training for the initial issue of an NPPL, PPL, CPL, IMC Rating,
Instrument Rating or other 'ab initio' training is not permitted. The
intention is to allow individuals to pay for training that enables them to
regain currency, renew a licence, learn a new skill (such as short field
landings) or become familiar with a new type etc.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
So, yes, in the UK you can have and pay for instruction in your group-owned
Europa, but NOT for a new licence or rating. Thus IF it was a jointly-owned
machine, the advice to another poster not to tell the CAA that he trained
for his IMC in a Europa would appear to be wise, if he doesn't want the book
thrown at him and probably lose his rating.
However, section 4.4 applies only to jointly-owned permit types. The section
for sole ownership is slightly different and does not exclude training for
initial issue of a licence or rating.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
3 Solely-owned non-EASA Aircraft
3.1 Article 259(2) of the Air Navigation Order (ANO) 2009 states that 'If
the only such valuable consideration consists of remuneration for the
services of the pilot, the flight is deemed to be a private flight for the
purposes of Part 3 and Part 4'.
3.2 The result of this is that a person who owns an aircraft outright and
does not have to pay for anything else in relation to the flight is
permitted to pay an instructor for training in their private aircraft.
Likewise, a person who has free use of an aircraft is also permitted to pay
an instructor for training in the aircraft, although this situation usually
only arises when a close friend or member of the owner's family wishes to
use the aircraft.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
The difference in the rules between joint and sole ownership is also made
clear in the flowchart at Appendix A of the document, where no conditions
are applied to training in sole-owned permit machines.
I can see that there is some opportunity for confusion, but it appears that
everyone who expressed an opinion on this topic was correct to some degree!
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
| pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson
-----
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Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Hi.
Is this it.
I am still not sure, never been good at wording.
Under Note.
It appears to say to me you can't do any initial rating.
Anyone is that correct, just a simple yes or No then I can forget about it.
.4.1 A General Exemption (ORS4 No. 802) and a Permission (ORS4 No. 803) have been
issued to allow owners of a jointly-owned private
aircraft operating under a Permit to Fly to pay for instruction in their aircraft
with the following conditions and limitations:
a. The exemption does not apply to gyroplanes or ex-military aircraft.
b. The person undergoing the training must hold a licence that entitles them to
act as pilot in command of the aircraft or would entitle
them except that they need to fly with an instructor to obtain a Certificate of
Test, Experience or Revalidation and the purpose
of the flight is to gain such a certificate.
c. The aircraft must be owned or operated by or under arrangements entered into
with a flying club, of which the person giving the
instruction and the person receiving the instruction are both members.
4.4.2 Therefore, owners of jointly owned non-EASA aircraft operating under a Permit
to Fly can pay for training in their aircraft provided
that the conditions in paragraph 4.4.1 have been met.
Note: Training for the initial issue of an NPPL, PPL, CPL, IMC Rating, Instrument
Rating or other 'ab initio' training is not permitted. The
intention is to allow individuals to pay for training that enables them to regain
currency, renew a licence, learn a new skill (such as
short field landings) or become familiar with a new type etc.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410511#410511
Message 11
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|
..The monowheel rubber suspension block that is! But I hear black is this season's
colour?
Can anyone remember the history here - I have an early classic (84) and am rebuilding
the monowheel suspension [Embarassed]
I do have dampers and the pink block looks to be in good condition (and is supplemented
by a 8mm plywood sheet!).
Any offers of parts from trigear convertees welcome (based Sussex)
Howard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410512#410512
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Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Hi, Found it.
1.1 It is often thought that flying training is not permitted in private aircraft,
or at least that only a limited amount of training is allowed. In
fact, there is no restriction on training in private aircraft, but as with any
activity in an aircraft that is normally only used for private recreational
purposes there are restrictions on what can be paid1 for in relation to the flight.
1.2 The basic position is that if someone pays for something in relation to a flight,
the flight is no longer private, but either aerial work,
public transport or commercial air transport. Aircraft that operate under a Certificate
of Airworthiness (CofA) and are only maintained to a
standard appropriate for private use or aircraft that operate under a Permit to
Fly (hereafter jointly referred to as 'private aircraft') can only
be used for private flights.
Then it goes on further down to this.
Note: Training for the initial issue of an NPPL, PPL, CPL, IMC Rating, Instrument
Rating or other 'ab initio' training is not permitted. The
intention is to allow individuals to pay for training that enables them to regain
currency, renew a licence, learn a new skill (such as
short field landings) or become familiar with a new type etc.
I never understand the wording of these things, But to me it looks like you can't,,
I think I will go along with that, unless someone tells me different..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410513#410513
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|
Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks] |
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Davies [mailto:brian.davies@clara.co.uk]
Sent: 14 October 2013 16:33
Subject: RE: IMC training in Europa [was: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub
Panels....thanks]
LAA Technical Leaflet 2.09 says
Initial Licence or Rating
2. An owner may receive remunerated (or un-remunerated) flight training
towards an initial licence or rating in his own LAA aircraft provided he is
a 'sole' owner and not part of a group ownership. (Direct family members of
the owner's immediate family are also acceptable).
3. The solo part of the PPL syllabus can be carried out in a single seat LAA
aircraft as long as the aircraft is similar to that being used for dual
instruction, is suitably equipped, and the instructor is satisfied that it
is compatible with accepted flight training practices.
4. 'Simulated' instrument training as required by the PPL syllabus, and
training towards the IMC or IR(R) rating is acceptable in a LAA aircraft
provided it is suitably equipped.
5. Examination, as required by the PPL syllabus, may be carried out in a LAA
aircraft, but only if un-remunerated. The aircraft must also be suitably
equipped.
In order to get a further interpretation of this situation I have asked Jon
Cooke the Chairman of the LAA Pilot Coaching scheme to comment further. I
will post his reply as soon as it arrives.
Brian Davies
LAA board member
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland Carson
Sent: 14 October 2013 15:02
Subject: IMC training in Europa [was: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sub
Panels....thanks]
--> <rowlandcarson@gmail.com>
On 14 Oct 2013, at 11:07, Alan Burrill wrote:
> I suggest people read AIC W 001/2011 and specifically para 4.4.2 which
related to the subject under discussion.
>
> Cannot post an extract on my phone.
You can see all the AICs at:
http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blo
gcategory&id=159&Itemid=56.html
and can choose W 001/2011 from the 2011 section.
Here's the bit that Alan refers to pasted in:
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
4.4 Operating under a Permit to Fly
4.4.1 A General Exemption (ORS4 No. 802) and a Permission (ORS4 No. 803)
have been issued to allow owners of a jointly-owned private aircraft
operating under a Permit to Fly to pay for instruction in their aircraft
with the following conditions and limitations:
a. The exemption does not apply to gyroplanes or ex-military aircraft.
b. The person undergoing the training must hold a licence that entitles them
to act as pilot in command of the aircraft or would entitle them except that
they need to fly with an instructor to obtain a Certificate of Test,
Experience or Revalidation and the purpose of the flight is to gain such a
certificate.
c. The aircraft must be owned or operated by or under arrangements entered
into with a flying club, of which the person giving the instruction and the
person receiving the instruction are both members.
4.4.2 Therefore, owners of jointly owned non-EASA aircraft operating under a
Permit to Fly can pay for training in their aircraft provided that the
conditions in paragraph 4.4.1 have been met.
Note: Training for the initial issue of an NPPL, PPL, CPL, IMC Rating,
Instrument Rating or other 'ab initio' training is not permitted. The
intention is to allow individuals to pay for training that enables them to
regain currency, renew a licence, learn a new skill (such as short field
landings) or become familiar with a new type etc.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
So, yes, in the UK you can have and pay for instruction in your group-owned
Europa, but NOT for a new licence or rating. Thus IF it was a jointly-owned
machine, the advice to another poster not to tell the CAA that he trained
for his IMC in a Europa would appear to be wise, if he doesn't want the book
thrown at him and probably lose his rating.
However, section 4.4 applies only to jointly-owned permit types. The section
for sole ownership is slightly different and does not exclude training for
initial issue of a licence or rating.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
3 Solely-owned non-EASA Aircraft
3.1 Article 259(2) of the Air Navigation Order (ANO) 2009 states that 'If
the only such valuable consideration consists of remuneration for the
services of the pilot, the flight is deemed to be a private flight for the
purposes of Part 3 and Part 4'.
3.2 The result of this is that a person who owns an aircraft outright and
does not have to pay for anything else in relation to the flight is
permitted to pay an instructor for training in their private aircraft.
Likewise, a person who has free use of an aircraft is also permitted to pay
an instructor for training in the aircraft, although this situation usually
only arises when a close friend or member of the owner's family wishes to
use the aircraft.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
The difference in the rules between joint and sole ownership is also made
clear in the flowchart at Appendix A of the document, where no conditions
are applied to training in sole-owned permit machines.
I can see that there is some opportunity for confusion, but it appears that
everyone who expressed an opinion on this topic was correct to some degree!
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
| pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson
-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
-----
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Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Alan,
This refers to the rules for paid training in jointly owned aircraft. The
use of a permit aircraft for training for an IMCR is permitted. See LAA
leaflet TL 2.09.
Regards
Brian Davies
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Carter
Sent: 14 October 2013 17:14
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Sub Panels....thanks
--> <alancarteresq@onetel.net>
Hi.
Is this it.
I am still not sure, never been good at wording.
Under Note.
It appears to say to me you can't do any initial rating.
Anyone is that correct, just a simple yes or No then I can forget about it.
.4.1 A General Exemption (ORS4 No. 802) and a Permission (ORS4 No. 803) have
been issued to allow owners of a jointly-owned private aircraft operating
under a Permit to Fly to pay for instruction in their aircraft with the
following conditions and limitations:
a. The exemption does not apply to gyroplanes or ex-military aircraft.
b. The person undergoing the training must hold a licence that entitles them
to act as pilot in command of the aircraft or would entitle them except that
they need to fly with an instructor to obtain a Certificate of Test,
Experience or Revalidation and the purpose of the flight is to gain such a
certificate.
c. The aircraft must be owned or operated by or under arrangements entered
into with a flying club, of which the person giving the instruction and the
person receiving the instruction are both members.
4.4.2 Therefore, owners of jointly owned non-EASA aircraft operating under a
Permit to Fly can pay for training in their aircraft provided that the
conditions in paragraph 4.4.1 have been met.
Note: Training for the initial issue of an NPPL, PPL, CPL, IMC Rating,
Instrument Rating or other 'ab initio' training is not permitted. The
intention is to allow individuals to pay for training that enables them to
regain currency, renew a licence, learn a new skill (such as short field
landings) or become familiar with a new type etc.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410511#410511
-----
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|
Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks] |
On 14 Oct 2013, at 17:35, Alan Carter wrote:
>
> Hi, Found it.
> 1.1 It is often thought that flying training is not permitted in private aircraft,
or at least that only a limited amount of training is allowed. In
> fact, there is no restriction on training in private aircraft, but as with any
activity in an aircraft that is normally only used for private recreational
> purposes there are restrictions on what can be paid1 for in relation to the flight.
> 1.2 The basic position is that if someone pays for something in relation to a
flight, the flight is no longer private, but either aerial work,
> public transport or commercial air transport. Aircraft that operate under a Certificate
of Airworthiness (CofA) and are only maintained to a
> standard appropriate for private use or aircraft that operate under a Permit
to Fly (hereafter jointly referred to as 'private aircraft') can only
> be used for private flights.
>
> Then it goes on further down to this.
>
> Note: Training for the initial issue of an NPPL, PPL, CPL, IMC Rating, Instrument
Rating or other 'ab initio' training is not permitted. The
> intention is to allow individuals to pay for training that enables them to regain
currency, renew a licence, learn a new skill (such as
> short field landings) or become familiar with a new type etc.
>
> I never understand the wording of these things, But to me it looks like you can't,,
I think I will go along with that, unless someone tells me different..
Alan - the note "further down" refers only to the joint ownership paragraphs (the
same note appears twice, first in section 4.3 and then in section 4.4); there
is no such note in Section 3. I agree that it's easy to get confused, but careful
reading is rewarded by a measure of understanding.
Have another look at Annex A (the flowchart). If you are a sole owner you finish
up in the central box where NO conditions are stipulated. If the aircraft is
in joint ownership you finish up in one of the other boxes which includes Condition
A - "Training must not be towards the grant of a licence or a rating in
a licence".
I'm not sure why this difference is made - perhaps it's to prevent a group-ownership
scheme setting up as an unregulated flying school.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
| pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson
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Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
Alan
The exclusion to training for initial issue etc applies to jointly owned aircraft
as detailed in para 4 and all it's sub paragraphs.
The earlier paragraphs (ie para 3) refer to solely owned aircraft, which does allow
such training for the owner, close friends and family who do not pay for
the aircraft hire.
David Watts
> On 14 Oct 2013, at 17:35, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, Found it.
> 1.1 It is often thought that flying training is not permitted in private aircraft,
or at least that only a limited amount of training is allowed. In
> fact, there is no restriction on training in private aircraft, but as with any
activity in an aircraft that is normally only used for private recreational
> purposes there are restrictions on what can be paid1 for in relation to the flight.
> 1.2 The basic position is that if someone pays for something in relation to a
flight, the flight is no longer private, but either aerial work,
> public transport or commercial air transport. Aircraft that operate under a Certificate
of Airworthiness (CofA) and are only maintained to a
> standard appropriate for private use or aircraft that operate under a Permit
to Fly (hereafter jointly referred to as 'private aircraft') can only
> be used for private flights.
>
> Then it goes on further down to this.
>
> Note: Training for the initial issue of an NPPL, PPL, CPL, IMC Rating, Instrument
Rating or other 'ab initio' training is not permitted. The
> intention is to allow individuals to pay for training that enables them to regain
currency, renew a licence, learn a new skill (such as
> short field landings) or become familiar with a new type etc.
>
> I never understand the wording of these things, But to me it looks like you can't,,
I think I will go along with that, unless someone tells me different..
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410513#410513
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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|
Subject: | First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic |
Hallo, to the group of all EUROPA enthusiasts on this forum .
I'm happy to announce that my EUROPA No. 242 - Classic has successfully
reached the sky few days ago, on 08. Oct., at 12:02 a'clock local time, at
the airport of Luebeck in North GERMANY- after 17 years building on it. My
instructor and test pilot, C. Peter Vajen, was very happy about the
workmanship, the performance and flight characteristics.
I have prepared a detailed report of this first flight and the whole story
about my time consuming building process and the many modifications I did.
But I don't know whether somebody is interested on this? So let me know
whether I should put the whole story on this forum, or somebody wants it
separately by E-Mail directly from me?? My E-Mail is as follows:
wemjot.das@kabelmail.de
Manfred Jann, Germany
Message 18
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|
Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks] |
Thanks Rowland.
I was a bit constrained on an iPhone but looking on a bigger machine I obviously
missed the flow diagram and previous section 3 on sole owners.
Seems to have cleared up the matter though.
Alan
On 14 Oct 2013, at 18:21, Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 14 Oct 2013, at 17:35, Alan Carter wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi, Found it.
>> 1.1 It is often thought that flying training is not permitted in private aircraft,
or at least that only a limited amount of training is allowed. In
>> fact, there is no restriction on training in private aircraft, but as with any
activity in an aircraft that is normally only used for private recreational
>> purposes there are restrictions on what can be paid1 for in relation to the
flight.
>> 1.2 The basic position is that if someone pays for something in relation to
a flight, the flight is no longer private, but either aerial work,
>> public transport or commercial air transport. Aircraft that operate under a
Certificate of Airworthiness (CofA) and are only maintained to a
>> standard appropriate for private use or aircraft that operate under a Permit
to Fly (hereafter jointly referred to as 'private aircraft') can only
>> be used for private flights.
>>
>> Then it goes on further down to this.
>>
>> Note: Training for the initial issue of an NPPL, PPL, CPL, IMC Rating, Instrument
Rating or other 'ab initio' training is not permitted. The
>> intention is to allow individuals to pay for training that enables them to regain
currency, renew a licence, learn a new skill (such as
>> short field landings) or become familiar with a new type etc.
>>
>> I never understand the wording of these things, But to me it looks like you
can't,, I think I will go along with that, unless someone tells me different..
>
> Alan - the note "further down" refers only to the joint ownership paragraphs
(the same note appears twice, first in section 4.3 and then in section 4.4); there
is no such note in Section 3. I agree that it's easy to get confused, but
careful reading is rewarded by a measure of understanding.
>
> Have another look at Annex A (the flowchart). If you are a sole owner you finish
up in the central box where NO conditions are stipulated. If the aircraft
is in joint ownership you finish up in one of the other boxes which includes Condition
A - "Training must not be towards the grant of a licence or a rating
in a licence".
>
> I'm not sure why this difference is made - perhaps it's to prevent a group-ownership
scheme setting up as an unregulated flying school.
>
> in friendship
>
> Rowland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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|
Subject: | Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic |
Manfred,
First - CONGRATULATIONS!!
Next, We would love to hear your build story. Please consider posting
your story with pictures on EuropaOwners.org.
Or, consider presenting it as a series of articles for the Europa Flyer,
the official magazine of the Europa Club.
I'm sure there are folks who could assist you in posting to Europa
Owners if you wish to do that.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Oct 14, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Manfred Jann <wemjot.das@kabelmail.de>
wrote:
Hallo, to the group of all EUROPA enthusiasts on this forum =85
I=92m happy to announce that my EUROPA No. 242 ' Classic has
successfully reached the sky few days ago, on 08. Oct., at 12:02 a=92clock
local time, at the airport of Luebeck in North GERMANY- after 17 years
building on it. My instructor and test pilot, C. Peter Vajen, was very
happy about the workmanship, the performance and flight characteristics.
I have prepared a detailed report of this first flight and the whole
story about my time consuming building process and the many
modifications I did.
But I don=92t know whether somebody is interested on this? So let me
know whether I should put the whole story on this forum, or somebody
wants it separately by E-Mail directly from me?? My E-Mail is as
follows: wemjot.das@kabelmail.de
Manfred Jann, Germany
Message 20
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|
Subject: | Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic |
Oops, and congrats!!!
Pete :)
> On Oct 14, 2013, at 1:41 PM, "Manfred Jann" <wemjot.das@kabelmail.de> wrot
e:
>
> Hallo, to the group of all EUROPA enthusiasts on this forum
>
> I=99m happy to announce that my EUROPA No. 242 =93 Classic has
successfully reached the sky few days ago, on 08. Oct., at 12:02 a=99
clock local time, at the airport of Luebeck in North GERMANY- after 17 years
building on it. My instructor and test pilot, C. Peter Vajen, was very hap
py about the workmanship, the performance and flight characteristics.
> I have prepared a detailed report of this first flight and the whole story
about my time consuming building process and the many modifications I did.
> But I don=99t know whether somebody is interested on this? So let me
know whether I should put the whole story on this forum, or somebody wants i
t separately by E-Mail directly from me?? My E-Mail is as follows: wemjot.
das@kabelmail.de
> Manfred Jann, Germany
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 21
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|
Hi Howard
Red was replaced with black while I was building #109. Can't exactly
remember why but I think the red had the wrong sort of elasticity or
something.
I also think it was a free upgrade.
My red one got cut in 2 on a diagonal and made a fine pair of chocks with a
rope though the holes.
Regards
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scudrunner
Sent: 14 October 2013 17:30
Subject: Europa-List: Mine's Pink!
..The monowheel rubber suspension block that is! But I hear black is this
season's colour?
Can anyone remember the history here - I have an early classic (84) and am
rebuilding the monowheel suspension [Embarassed]
I do have dampers and the pink block looks to be in good condition (and is
supplemented by a 8mm plywood sheet!).
Any offers of parts from trigear convertees welcome (based Sussex)
Howard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410512#410512
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Subject: | Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic |
I'd love to see the whole story! Pics and all!
Cheers,
Pete :-)
> On Oct 14, 2013, at 1:41 PM, "Manfred Jann" <wemjot.das@kabelmail.de> wrot
e:
>
> Hallo, to the group of all EUROPA enthusiasts on this forum
>
> I=99m happy to announce that my EUROPA No. 242 =93 Classic has
successfully reached the sky few days ago, on 08. Oct., at 12:02 a=99
clock local time, at the airport of Luebeck in North GERMANY- after 17 years
building on it. My instructor and test pilot, C. Peter Vajen, was very hap
py about the workmanship, the performance and flight characteristics.
> I have prepared a detailed report of this first flight and the whole story
about my time consuming building process and the many modifications I did.
> But I don=99t know whether somebody is interested on this? So let me
know whether I should put the whole story on this forum, or somebody wants i
t separately by E-Mail directly from me?? My E-Mail is as follows: wemjot.
das@kabelmail.de
> Manfred Jann, Germany
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
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Subject: | Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic |
Manfred...I second everything which Robert writes below...and if your
> detailed report of this first flight and the whole story about my time
consuming building process and the many modifications
...is available in email format, by all means send me a copy directly.
Is yours the DE Europa I've heard about with the wing tanks?
Congratulations,
Fred
On Oct 14, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Robert Borger wrote:
> Manfred,
>
> First - CONGRATULATIONS!!
>
> Next, We would love to hear your build story. Please consider posting
your story with pictures on EuropaOwners.org.
>
> Or, consider presenting it as a series of articles for the Europa
Flyer, the official magazine of the Europa Club.
>
> I'm sure there are folks who could assist you in posting to Europa
Owners if you wish to do that.
>
Message 24
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Subject: | First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic |
WELL DONE MANFRED < Congratulations ......now you will find it is real.
Best regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Kit 337 ....1000 hours plus.
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Manfred Jann
Sent: 14 October 2013 18:41
Subject: Europa-List: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic
Hallo, to the group of all EUROPA enthusiasts on this forum .
I'm happy to announce that my EUROPA No. 242 - Classic has successfully
reached the sky few days ago, on 08. Oct., at 12:02 a'clock local time, at
the airport of Luebeck in North GERMANY- after 17 years building on it. My
instructor and test pilot, C. Peter Vajen, was very happy about the
workmanship, the performance and flight characteristics.
I have prepared a detailed report of this first flight and the whole story
about my time consuming building process and the many modifications I did.
But I don't know whether somebody is interested on this? So let me know
whether I should put the whole story on this forum, or somebody wants it
separately by E-Mail directly from me?? My E-Mail is as follows:
wemjot.das@kabelmail.de
Manfred Jann, Germany
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: IMC training in Europa [was: Re: Sub Panels....thanks] |
Hi Roland ,Brian and al.
Well I think I've got it.
All a bit crazy, but as I understand it you can do an IMC rating on a Europa a
Permit Aircraft, Provided you are the solo owner.
And ????? it has all the appropriate radio gear, not a GPS-vor ete,.
But if Me and my mate own the plane we can not do the IMC rating on our permit
Europa.
Is that Right,
Im going to have fun with my examiner,
Regards.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410534#410534
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: IMC training in Europa [was: Re: Sub Panels....thanks] |
Alan
It's not rocket science, even my grandchildren understood it when I ran it past
them.
If you are the sole owner you can train.
If you own as a group you can't, thus avoiding the possibility of forming a sham
group around a permit aircraft to all be able to learn to fly on the cheap.
If all else fails, read the AIC slowly and methodically, including the paragraph
numbers, and all will become clear.
David Watts
> On 14 Oct 2013, at 20:06, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Roland ,Brian and al.
> Well I think I've got it.
> All a bit crazy, but as I understand it you can do an IMC rating on a Europa
a Permit Aircraft, Provided you are the solo owner.
> And ????? it has all the appropriate radio gear, not a GPS-vor ete,.
> But if Me and my mate own the plane we can not do the IMC rating on our permit
Europa.
>
> Is that Right,
>
> Im going to have fun with my examiner,
> Regards.
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410534#410534
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic |
Brilliant, congratulations, please post photos.
I am in the second year with mine now (#178 I think) and its been great, still
messing with it though.
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 75 hours 18 months
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410541#410541
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: Sub Panels....thanks |
David.
I have got it,
Including owner , and family ete.
I will relay this information, many thanks Alan.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410543#410543
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: Mine's Pink! |
In 84?? When was the first kit delivered? I have kit 165 and my block is red but
the centre holes were pre damper mod so the holes are too small. I just bought
a new block and they sent a black one.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410551#410551
Message 30
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Subject: | Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic |
Well done!
On 14 Oct 2013, at 18:41, "Manfred Jann" <wemjot.das@kabelmail.de> wrote:
> Hallo, to the group of all EUROPA enthusiasts on this forum
>
> I=99m happy to announce that my EUROPA No. 242 =93 Classic has
successfully reached the sky few days ago, on 08. Oct., at 12:02 a=99
clock local time, at the airport of Luebeck in North GERMANY- after 17 years
building on it. My instructor and test pilot, C. Peter Vajen, was very hap
py about the workmanship, the performance and flight characteristics.
> I have prepared a detailed report of this first flight and the whole story
about my time consuming building process and the many modifications I did.
> But I don=99t know whether somebody is interested on this? So let me
know whether I should put the whole story on this forum, or somebody wants i
t separately by E-Mail directly from me?? My E-Mail is as follows: wemjot.
das@kabelmail.de
> Manfred Jann, Germany
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 31
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Subject: | First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic |
Manfred=2C
Many congratulations. Is 17 years a record ?The best place to publish your
story is in the 'Europa Flyer'.
Best regards=2C
Karl
From: wemjot.das@kabelmail.de
Subject: Europa-List: First flight of my EUROPA 242=2C Classic
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Hallo=2C to the group of all EUROPA enthusiasts on this=0A
forum =85=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
I=92m happy to announce that my EUROPA No. 242 ' Classic=0A
has successfully reached the sky few days ago=2C on 08. Oct.=2C at 12:02=0A
a=92clock local time=2C at the airport of Luebeck in North GERMANY- after 1
7=0A
years building on it. My instructor and test pilot=2C C. Peter Vajen=2C wa
s=0A
very happy about the workmanship=2C the performance and flight characterist
ics. =0A
=0A
I have prepared a detailed report of this first=0A
flight and the whole story about my time consuming building process and the
=0A
many modifications I did. =0A
=0A
But I don=92t know whether somebody is interested=0A
on this? So let me know whether I should put the whole story on this forum
=2C or=0A
somebody wants it separately by E-Mail directly from me?? My E-Mail is as
=0A
follows: wemjot.das@kabelmail.de =0A
=0A
Manfred Jann=2C Germany=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
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============0A
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Message 32
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Subject: | Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic |
Manfred=0AIs this the Europa I saw under construction many years ago with t
he outriggers =0Aretracting into the oputer wing panels? You will remember
Norbert Hoffmann I'm sure.=0AGlad to hear you have flown at last. I hope yo
u still have enough years left to enjoy it=0A=0A=C2-Always interesting to
hear stories like this.=0AFly safe and vielen dank!=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0A From: Manfred Jann <wemjot.das@kabel
mail.de>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 14 October 2013,
18:41=0ASubject: Europa-List: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic=0A =0A
=0A=0A =0AHallo, to the group of all EUROPA enthusiasts on this=0Aforum=C2
- =0A=C2-=0AI=99m happy to announce that my EUROPA No. 2
42 =93 Classic has successfully reached the sky few days ago, on 08.
Oct., at 12:02=0Aa=99clock local time, at the airport of Luebeck in N
orth GERMANY- after 17=0Ayears building on it.=C2- My instructor and test
pilot, C. Peter Vajen, was=0Avery happy about the workmanship, the perform
ance and flight characteristics. =0AI have prepared a detailed report of th
is first=0Aflight and the whole story about my time consuming building proc
ess and the=0Amany modifications I did. =0ABut I don=99t know whether
somebody is interested=0Aon this? So let me know whether I should put the
whole story on this forum, or=0Asomebody wants it separately by E-Mail dire
ctly from me?? My E-Mail is as=0Afollows:=C2-=C2- wemjot.das@kabelmail.
====
Message 33
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Subject: | Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic |
Gefeliciteerd . Gratuliere . Congratulations great job Well done we all kno
w the effort it takes to finish THE project .. have fun and a lot off flying
.. Regards #157 classic PH-POP
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone
> Op 14 okt. 2013 om 19:41 heeft "Manfred Jann" <wemjot.das@kabelmail.de> he
t volgende geschreven:
>
> Hallo, to the group of all EUROPA enthusiasts on this forum
>
> I=99m happy to announce that my EUROPA No. 242 =93 Classic has
successfully reached the sky few days ago, on 08. Oct., at 12:02 a=99
clock local time, at the airport of Luebeck in North GERMANY- after 17 years
building on it. My instructor and test pilot, C. Peter Vajen, was very hap
py about the workmanship, the performance and flight characteristics.
> I have prepared a detailed report of this first flight and the whole story
about my time consuming building process and the many modifications I did.
> But I don=99t know whether somebody is interested on this? So let me
know whether I should put the whole story on this forum, or somebody wants i
t separately by E-Mail directly from me?? My E-Mail is as follows: wemjot.
das@kabelmail.de
> Manfred Jann, Germany
>
>
>
>
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 34
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Subject: | First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic |
Manfred,
Congratulations on your first flight, I'm sure we would all like to hear
your story.
Regards Ivan
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Manfred Jann
Sent: 14 October 2013 18:41
Subject: Europa-List: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic
Hallo, to the group of all EUROPA enthusiasts on this forum .
I'm happy to announce that my EUROPA No. 242 - Classic has successfully
reached the sky few days ago, on 08. Oct., at 12:02 a'clock local time, at
the airport of Luebeck in North GERMANY- after 17 years building on it. My
instructor and test pilot, C. Peter Vajen, was very happy about the
workmanship, the performance and flight characteristics.
I have prepared a detailed report of this first flight and the whole story
about my time consuming building process and the many modifications I did.
But I don't know whether somebody is interested on this? So let me know
whether I should put the whole story on this forum, or somebody wants it
separately by E-Mail directly from me?? My E-Mail is as follows:
wemjot.das@kabelmail.de
Manfred Jann, Germany
Message 35
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Subject: | Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic |
Hello Manfred
Congratulations and welcome in the Europa birds community
Michel AUVRAY
Builder 145
On 14/10/2013 19:41, Manfred Jann wrote:
>
> Hallo, to the group of all EUROPA enthusiasts on this forum ...
>
> I'm happy to announce that my */EUROPA No. 242 -- Classic/* has
> successfully reached the sky few days ago, on 08. Oct., at 12:02
> a'clock local time, at the airport of Luebeck in North GERMANY- after
> 17 years building on it. My instructor and test pilot, C. Peter
> Vajen, was very happy about the workmanship, the performance and
> flight characteristics.
>
> I have prepared a detailed report of this first flight and the whole
> story about my time consuming building process and the many
> modifications I did.
>
> But I don't know whether somebody is interested on this? So let me
> know whether I should put the whole story on this forum, or somebody
> wants it separately by E-Mail directly from me?? My E-Mail is as
> follows: wemjot.das@kabelmail.de <mailto:wemjot.das@kabelmail.de>
>
> Manfred Jann, Germany
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 36
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Subject: | Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic |
Congratulation and well done!!! I also would love tor reed about you project.
Have fun
--------
Richard Wheelwright
G-IRPW
First Flight 24th July 2013
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410583#410583
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Subject: | Re: First flight of my EUROPA 242, Classic |
Congratulations Manfred! A great achievement, I look forward to reading about
it sometime.
Clive Sutton, kit 317
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410585#410585
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