Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:17 AM - Re: Dummy spars (spcialeffects)
2. 02:56 AM - Re: Re: Battery questions (David Joyce)
3. 03:22 AM - Re: Re: Battery questions (Frans Veldman)
4. 04:02 AM - Re: Re: Battery questions (houlihan)
5. 05:49 AM - Fw: FW: GAR Forms [Protective Marking: RESTRICTED] (David Joyce)
6. 06:39 AM - Re: Battery Questions (crouton)
7. 07:59 AM - Re: Re: Battery Questions (David Joyce)
8. 08:21 AM - Rotax 912uls (Gill & Rod Palmer)
9. 09:08 AM - upholstery backing (graeme bird)
10. 09:34 AM - Re: upholstery backing (David Joyce)
11. 10:56 AM - Re: Rotax 912uls (Sky Mail)
12. 11:56 AM - Re: Rotax 912uls (Robert Borger)
13. 01:02 PM - europa (Gill & Rod Palmer)
14. 01:59 PM - 914 Fuel Flow Indicators (Tony Renshaw)
15. 02:21 PM - Re: europa (Robert Borger)
16. 02:34 PM - Re: 914 Fuel Flow Indicators (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
17. 02:35 PM - Re: 914 Fuel Flow Indicators (Robert Borger)
18. 08:36 PM - Re: MOD 78 (djaflyact)
19. 08:37 PM - Re: MOD 78 (djaflyact)
Message 1
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Ahhh....not the response I was expecting really, however everyone's experience
can't be wrong.......so it's a no then to dummy spars. Didn't take long. Thanks
all
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410908#410908
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
Alan, If your master switch is wired correctly switching
that off has much the same effect as disconnecting the
battery. Regards, David
On Sat, 19 Oct 2013 13:39:09 -0700
"Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
><alancarteresq@onetel.net>
>
> Hi David.
> That all seems reasonable, nothing to gripe there,
>
> But to check the wiring and operation of a working
>serviceable system, and see it is functioning correctly
>as per wiring if correctly done, as there is no testing
>circuit, I guess the only way is to have the engine
>running and remove on of the battery leads, to check the
>engine and pumps will solely running on the power from
>the Alternator. Maybe some one has a better way to check
>this.
> Regards
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410884#410884
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>Admin.
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
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On 10/19/2013 10:39 PM, Alan Carter wrote:
> But to check the wiring and operation of a working serviceable
> system, and see it is functioning correctly as per wiring if
> correctly done, as there is no testing circuit, I guess the only
> way is to have the engine running and remove on of the battery
> leads, to check the engine and pumps will solely running on the
> power from the Alternator. Maybe some one has a better way to check
> this.
Make sure the capacitor is installed if you do that. Without the
capacitor, the system may start surging, destroying all running
avionics in the process.
The capacitor acts as a very tiny battery, just large enough to buffer
some of the charge, damping out oscillations in the voltage feed back
system of the "rectifier".
Frans
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Battery questions |
HI Fran.
Having had a regulator failure recently I agree with your message though in
my case the capacitor then failed within a few minutes and vented its
internals past the windscreen.
Just for information if you have the Schicke regulator installed they say
that the capacitor is no longer required, also over ten years ago I fitted
the overvoltage protection module that was widely mentioned in the Europa
Flyer of the time. This actually worked for me and maybe it saved my radio
and transponder and other stuff from being damaged .
Tim
G-BZTH
On 20 October 2013 11:22, Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl> wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 10/19/2013 10:39 PM, Alan Carter wrote:
>
> > But to check the wiring and operation of a working serviceable
> > system, and see it is functioning correctly as per wiring if
> > correctly done, as there is no testing circuit, I guess the only
> > way is to have the engine running and remove on of the battery
> > leads, to check the engine and pumps will solely running on the
> > power from the Alternator. Maybe some one has a better way to check
> > this.
>
> Make sure the capacitor is installed if you do that. Without the
> capacitor, the system may start surging, destroying all running
> avionics in the process.
>
> The capacitor acts as a very tiny battery, just large enough to buffer
> some of the charge, damping out oscillations in the voltage feed back
> system of the "rectifier".
>
> Frans
>
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Fwd: FW: GAR Forms [Protective Marking: RESTRICTED] |
As you will see from this email below the UK Border Force
have now stated absolutely clearly that a GAR form is
required when flying into the UK regardless of whether you
are flying into a 'Customs' airport, with 4hrs notice from
EU and more from other places. I will update the club
website shortly.
Regards, David Joyce, G- XSDJ
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From: "Vandervord Richard (Border Force)"
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CC: "Gibbs Andrew (Border Force)" <Andrew.Gibbs@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk>,
"O'Donoghue Jenny (Border Force)"
<Jenny.O'Donoghue@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk>,
Windsor Stephen
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Subject: FW: GAR Forms [Protective Marking: RESTRICTED]
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Dear Mr Joyce
In fact there have been no changes to the notification requirements and it
is a misconception (admittedly a quite widely-held one) that arrival at a
Designated location means that advance notice is not required. Requiremen
ts are the same at all locations: 24 hours for flights to & from non-EU lo
cations, 4 hours for flights from EU locations and 12 hours for flights to
& from Channel Islands, Northern Ireland and IOM.
We in the UK are unique in allowing EU flights to arrive at any airfield r
ight down to private strips, but the concept of Designated airports has be
come obsolete as many of these are no longer manned by Border Force staff.
There have been a number of consultations with the GA industry representa
tive bodies recently to discuss the issue of advance reporting times, and
consideration is being given to reducing this at those locations where the
re is a permanent Border Force presence. The outcome of these negotiations
and revision of Designated status will be publicised fully as appropriate
.
Best regards
Richard Vandervord
HIO, GA/DB Teams
Border Force Intelligence Directorate ~ Aviation
-
Border Force
Custom House, London Heathrow Airport, TW6 2LA
Concorde 2000, London Gatwick Airport, RH6 0LX
-
Tel: + 44 (0)20 3014-5677
----- + 44 (0)1293 622016
Mobile:- +44 (0)7920 233481
24 hour: +44 (0)7017 400146
-----Original Message-----
From: ncu@hmrc.gsi.gov.uk [mailto:ncu@hmrc.gsi.gov.uk]
Sent: 20 October 2013 12:56
Subject: FW: GAR Forms [Protective Marking: RESTRICTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: David Joyce [mailto:davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk]
Sent: 20 October 2013 12:55
Subject: GAR Forms
Dear Sirs, I have recently been informed via AOPA that the
long established system of GA aircraft being able to fly
back to the UK from the EU without submitting a GAR form
as long as they land at designated customs airfields such
as Lydd, has been withdrawn by the UK Border Force, and
that large fines are potentially threatening those who
fail to realise this. I would be very grateful if you
could confirm whether this is so and whether this is a
permanent measure. My interest in this is that I 'own' the
website pages for our flying club
(www.theeuropaclub.org/flying) that give guidance to those
flying abroad and if this is the case I clearly need to
alter the current wording. Regards, David Joyce
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Questions |
This is an interesting thread.
But we must all keep in mind that the "nominal" 17 amp hours of the Odyssey battery
(or of any other) is predicated on a 20 hour discharge rate and has an endpoint
of 11volts.
Therefore any discharge rate over one (1) amp will result in a battery capacity
of far under 17ah. At even at a 3 amp discharge rate a fresh Odyssey 17 ah battery
will be perilously close to complete discharge after 3 hours.
Food for thought.
Creighton Smith Classic EFI 912
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 20, 2013, at 3:02 AM, Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list@matronics.com>
wrote:
>
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the
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> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
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>
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>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Europa-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 10/19/13: 10
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 03:42 AM - Re: Re: Battery questions (David Joyce)
> 2. 03:56 AM - Re: Classic Centre Console (spcialeffects)
> 3. 04:21 AM - Dummy spars (spcialeffects)
> 4. 05:09 AM - Re: Re: Classic Centre Console (Carl Pattinson)
> 5. 06:42 AM - KEVV - Evansville Indiana EAA Chapter 21 Wings and Wheels this
weekend (Steve Eberhart)
> 6. 08:16 AM - Re: Dummy spars (Andrew Sarangan)
> 7. 08:43 AM - Re: Dummy spars (David Joyce)
> 8. 08:49 AM - Re: Dummy spars (Richard Wheelwright)
> 9. 10:00 AM - Re: Dummy spars (Rob Housman)
> 10. 01:39 PM - Re: Battery questions (Alan Carter)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:42:23 AM PST US
> From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Battery questions
>
>
>
> Alan, I work on the assumption that if I keep my Odyssey
> battery in good nick and replace it before it dies then I
> should have a significant proportion of the nominal17 amp
> hrs available when/if the rectifier packs up. The Rotax
> maintenance manual gives the current demands of the pump
> as 2 amps at lower pressures rising to 3 at highest
> pressure. With the ammeter fitted to my plane I can
> readily see what usage I have as I switch off inessential
> items. As I remember it when my rectifier packed up over
> the North Sea the fuel pump took something nearer 2 amps
> than 3 with radio on as well.
> I wouldn't rely on being able to fly for lots of
> hours over sea but would be pretty comfortable about
> flying a few hours over land to get home, rather than put
> down somewhere totally inconvenient and get stuck until a
> new rectifier arrived. For glider pilots this is after
> all, the normal modus operandi, and you get to be fairly
> relaxed about popping it into a field if your means of
> staying airborne disappears!
> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>
> On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 15:18:14 -0700
> "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>> <alancarteresq@onetel.net>
>>
>> Hi David.
>> You have flown to some wonderful places, Im UK only no
>> longer have that confidence, when i was in my 20s yes I
>> would have.
>> Im no expert on the plane never looked into it, but all
>> the planes I have flown the engine is entirely separate
>> from the aircrafts electrics and you have just confirmed
>> that with Master off and Alternator off and the a pump
>> and spark keeps the engine going, or should do.
>> So the spark is not influenced by either switch,
>> and the pump get it power from either a separate circuit
>> within the Alternator or the battery which will slowly
>> run down.
>> Rotax must say somewhere how long you have on battery
>> and pump only.
>> or maybe not?
>> We know with the Master and Alternator off the engine
>> will run OK.
>> But with a serviceable system how do I check its failure
>> capabilities ??
>>
>> Regards
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410354#410354
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Un/Subscription,
>> Forums!
>> Admin.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:56:44 AM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Classic Centre Console
> From: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects@aol.com>
>
>
> So after much thought I have decided to do mod 24, however I'm abit scared to
make
> the first cut of the centre console as it seems to be quite a drastic mod
> to get extra bum room but I am going to do it. I just wanted to ask, before I
> start it, to anyone here who has done this mod if they could post some pictures,
> give any tips but most of all how far into the tunnel did you go? I.e how much
> extra bum space did you achieve. Now the instruction sheet I have says to
> make sure you miss the rudder cables and flap arm but I am looking at doing this
> mod with the bear module so it is easier to lay up the inside so any measurements
> would be appricated. Failing all of that if you are selling an XS module
> please contact me also. Thanks Frank
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410863#410863
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:21:13 AM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Dummy spars
> From: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects@aol.com>
>
>
> If anyone has a set of dummy spars I could borrow or buy I would be very grateful
> as this will allow me to put my fuselage in many more positions within my workshop
> then rigging the wings. Thank Frank
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410864#410864
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:09:04 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Classic Centre Console
> From: Carl Pattinson <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
>
> I don't have a copy of mod 24 to hand but seem to remember the factory method
was
> a bit of a "bodge" IMHO which is why we opted for a different solution. We
> created our LA inserts on the workbench (in the shape of a half kidney) then
> reduxed them onto the hole we had cut in the cockpit module sides - then 4 layers
> of bid inside and outside at the join edges for added strength.
>
> I would be inclined to leave this as late in the build as possible as you really
> need the swinging arm and tyre in place to get an accurate fit. We got it wrong
> first time around and the tyre jammed in the up position - solved that little
> hitch by fitting a narrower tyre and judicious use of a hot air gun to reform
> the bulge in the LA inserts.
>
> With hindsight I think it would be possible to construct the innermost bid layer
> of the LA bulge once the wheel was in place. It would then be relatively easy
> (once cured) to bond in the thin foam layer and complete the outside layers
> of bid from outside. If you had access to a vacuum pump you could vacuum mould
> the foam and bid layers onto the original inner layers of glass which would give
> a strong air free structure.
>
> I have some pics somewhere - will try and dig them out.
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G-LABS
>
>
> Sent from my ASUS Pad
>
> spcialeffects <spcialeffects@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> So after much thought I have decided to do mod 24, however I'm abit scared to
> make the first cut of the centre console as it seems to be quite a drastic mod
> to get extra bum room but I am going to do it. I just wanted to ask, before I
> start it, to anyone here who has done this mod if they could post some pictures,
> give any tips but most of all how far into the tunnel did you go? I.e how
> much extra bum space did you achieve. Now the instruction sheet I have says to
> make sure you miss the rudder cables and flap arm but I am looking at doing this
> mod with the bear module so it is easier to lay up the inside so any measurements
> would be appricated. Failing all of that if you are selling an XS module
> please contact me also. Thanks Frank
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410863#410863
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:42:43 AM PST US
> From: Steve Eberhart <steve@newtech.com>
> Subject: Europa-List: KEVV - Evansville Indiana EAA Chapter 21 Wings and Wheels
> this weekend
>
>
> Our Third Annual Wings and Wheels event is this Saturday
>
>
> We have had over 200 Cruisers at each of our first two Wings and
> Wheels This year should continue building on our great start.
> Cruise-In or Fly-In and help us set a new attendance record this year
>
>
> 10:00 AM till 3:00 PM Central time.
>
>
> Tri-State Aero (KEVV), Ramp and Parking Lot.
>
>
> Here are some pics of previous Wings and wheels. Our 2013 Wings
> and Wheels event will be at Tri-State Aero October 19th, 2013.
>
>
> http://www.eaa21.org/WingsandWheels.jpg
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka1Sg7tmULc
>
> http://www.eaa21.org/coppermine1/thumbnails.php?album=2
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:16:37 AM PST US
> From: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dummy spars
>
>
> I do have a dummy spar which I have no use for, so I can send it to
> you if needed.
>
> On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend using the dummy spars for
> aligning the spars to the cockpit module. It only takes a fraction of
> a mm misalignment of the bushings to make the pin insertion and
> retraction very stiff.
>
>
>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 7:20 AM, spcialeffects <spcialeffects@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> If anyone has a set of dummy spars I could borrow or buy I would be very grateful
> as this will allow me to put my fuselage in many more positions within my
> workshop then rigging the wings. Thank Frank
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410864#410864
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:43:49 AM PST US
> From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dummy spars
>
>
>
> Frank, I would advise making your own, lining them up
> precicely on your wing spars and only doing it when you
> are ready to use them. If they are made of wood or most
> anything non metallic there is a danger of change in
> humidity altering their dimensions oherwise. Regards,
> David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>
> On Sat, 19 Oct 2013 11:15:42 -0400
> Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <asarangan@gmail.com>
>>
>> I do have a dummy spar which I have no use for, so I can
>> send it to
>> you if needed.
>>
>> On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend using the dummy
>> spars for
>> aligning the spars to the cockpit module. It only takes
>> a fraction of
>> a mm misalignment of the bushings to make the pin
>> insertion and
>> retraction very stiff.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 7:20 AM, spcialeffects
>> <spcialeffects@aol.com> wrote:
>>> <spcialeffects@aol.com>
>>>
>>> If anyone has a set of dummy spars I could borrow or buy
>>> I would be very grateful as this will allow me to put my
>>> fuselage in many more positions within my workshop then
>>> rigging the wings. Thank Frank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410864#410864
>>
>> Un/Subscription,
>> Forums!
>> Admin.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:49:04 AM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Dummy spars
> From: "Richard Wheelwright" <rpwheelwright@yahoo.co.uk>
>
>
> Frank,
>
> I also recommend using the wings.
>
> I also have a dummy spar you can have (Never Used)
>
> --------
> Richard Wheelwright
> G-IRPW
> First Flight 24th July 2013
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410872#410872
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:00:38 AM PST US
> From: "Rob Housman" <rob@hyperion-ef.com>
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Dummy spars
>
>
> I must take exception to the part about "...make the pin insertion and
> retraction very stiff." In my case the word "impossible" is substituted for
> "stiff." The "dummy" in dummy spar is the builder who uses it.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
> Europa XS A070
> Rotax 914
> Airframe complete
> Avionics a work in progress
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan
> Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 8:16 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dummy spars
>
>
> I do have a dummy spar which I have no use for, so I can send it to you if
> needed.
>
> On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend using the dummy spars for aligning
> the spars to the cockpit module. It only takes a fraction of a mm
> misalignment of the bushings to make the pin insertion and retraction very
> stiff.
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 7:20 AM, spcialeffects <spcialeffects@aol.com>
> wrote:
>> --> <spcialeffects@aol.com>
>>
>> If anyone has a set of dummy spars I could borrow or buy I would be
>> very grateful as this will allow me to put my fuselage in many more
>> positions within my workshop then rigging the wings. Thank Frank
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410864#410864
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:39:46 PM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Battery questions
> From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net>
>
>
> Hi David.
> That all seems reasonable, nothing to gripe there,
>
> But to check the wiring and operation of a working serviceable system, and see
> it is functioning correctly as per wiring if correctly done, as there is no testing
> circuit, I guess the only way is to have the engine running and remove on
> of the battery leads, to check the engine and pumps will solely running on the
> power from the Alternator. Maybe some one has a better way to check this.
>
> Regards
> Alan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410884#410884
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Questions |
Creighton, If you look at the Odyssey technical manual for
the p680 you will find they give 8 hrs for a 2amp
discharge rate and 5hrs for the 3amp discharge. Perhaps
what you say applies to ordinary lead acd batteries but
not to the superior technology of the Odyssey.
Regards, David Joyce, G - XSDJ
On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 09:38:58 -0400
crouton <crouton@well.com> wrote:
><crouton@well.com>
>
> This is an interesting thread.
> But we must all keep in mind that the "nominal" 17 amp
>hours of the Odyssey battery (or of any other) is
>predicated on a 20 hour discharge rate and has an
>endpoint of 11volts.
> Therefore any discharge rate over one (1) amp will
>result in a battery capacity of far under 17ah. At even
>at a 3 amp discharge rate a fresh Odyssey 17 ah battery
>will be perilously close to complete discharge after 3
>hours.
>Food for thought.
>
> Creighton Smith Classic EFI 912
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Oct 20, 2013, at 3:02 AM, Europa-List Digest Server
>><europa-list@matronics.com> wrote:
>>
>> *
>>
>> =================================================
>> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
>> =================================================
>>
>> Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in
>>either of the
>> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the
>>Digest formatted
>> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
>>Hyperlinked Indexes
>> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the
>>plain ASCII version
>> of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a
>>generic text editor
>> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>>
>> HTML Version:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 13-10-19&Archive=Europa
>>
>> Text Version:
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 13-10-19&Archive=Europa
>>
>>
>> ===============================================
>> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
>> ===============================================
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Europa-List Digest Archive
>> ---
>> Total Messages Posted Sat 10/19/13:
>>10
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Today's Message Index:
>> ----------------------
>>
>> 1. 03:42 AM - Re: Re: Battery questions (David
>>Joyce)
>> 2. 03:56 AM - Re: Classic Centre Console
>> (spcialeffects)
>> 3. 04:21 AM - Dummy spars (spcialeffects)
>> 4. 05:09 AM - Re: Re: Classic Centre Console (Carl
>>Pattinson)
>> 5. 06:42 AM - KEVV - Evansville Indiana EAA Chapter
>>21 Wings and Wheels this weekend (Steve Eberhart)
>> 6. 08:16 AM - Re: Dummy spars (Andrew Sarangan)
>> 7. 08:43 AM - Re: Dummy spars (David Joyce)
>> 8. 08:49 AM - Re: Dummy spars (Richard Wheelwright)
>> 9. 10:00 AM - Re: Dummy spars (Rob Housman)
>> 10. 01:39 PM - Re: Battery questions (Alan Carter)
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 1
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 03:42:23 AM PST US
>> From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Battery questions
>>
>>
>>
>> Alan, I work on the assumption that if I keep my Odyssey
>> battery in good nick and replace it before it dies then
>>I
>> should have a significant proportion of the nominal17
>>amp
>> hrs available when/if the rectifier packs up. The Rotax
>> maintenance manual gives the current demands of the pump
>> as 2 amps at lower pressures rising to 3 at highest
>> pressure. With the ammeter fitted to my plane I can
>> readily see what usage I have as I switch off
>>inessential
>> items. As I remember it when my rectifier packed up over
>> the North Sea the fuel pump took something nearer 2 amps
>> than 3 with radio on as well.
>> I wouldn't rely on being able to fly for lots of
>> hours over sea but would be pretty comfortable about
>> flying a few hours over land to get home, rather than
>>put
>> down somewhere totally inconvenient and get stuck until
>>a
>> new rectifier arrived. For glider pilots this is after
>> all, the normal modus operandi, and you get to be fairly
>> relaxed about popping it into a field if your means of
>> staying airborne disappears!
>> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>>
>> On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 15:18:14 -0700
>> "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
>>> <alancarteresq@onetel.net>
>>>
>>> Hi David.
>>> You have flown to some wonderful places, Im UK only no
>>> longer have that confidence, when i was in my 20s yes I
>>> would have.
>>> Im no expert on the plane never looked into it, but all
>>> the planes I have flown the engine is entirely separate
>>> from the aircrafts electrics and you have just confirmed
>>> that with Master off and Alternator off and the a pump
>>> and spark keeps the engine going, or should do.
>>> So the spark is not influenced by either switch,
>>> and the pump get it power from either a separate circuit
>>> within the Alternator or the battery which will slowly
>>> run down.
>>> Rotax must say somewhere how long you have on battery
>>> and pump only.
>>> or maybe not?
>>> We know with the Master and Alternator off the engine
>>> will run OK.
>>> But with a serviceable system how do I check its failure
>>> capabilities ??
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410354#410354
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Un/Subscription,
>>> Forums!
>>> Admin.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 2
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 03:56:44 AM PST US
>> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Classic Centre Console
>> From: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects@aol.com>
>>
>>
>> So after much thought I have decided to do mod 24,
>>however I'm abit scared to make
>> the first cut of the centre console as it seems to be
>>quite a drastic mod
>> to get extra bum room but I am going to do it. I just
>>wanted to ask, before I
>> start it, to anyone here who has done this mod if they
>>could post some pictures,
>> give any tips but most of all how far into the tunnel
>>did you go? I.e how much
>> extra bum space did you achieve. Now the instruction
>>sheet I have says to
>> make sure you miss the rudder cables and flap arm but I
>>am looking at doing this
>> mod with the bear module so it is easier to lay up the
>>inside so any measurements
>> would be appricated. Failing all of that if you are
>>selling an XS module
>> please contact me also. Thanks Frank
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410863#410863
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 3
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 04:21:13 AM PST US
>> Subject: Europa-List: Dummy spars
>> From: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects@aol.com>
>>
>>
>> If anyone has a set of dummy spars I could borrow or buy
>>I would be very grateful
>> as this will allow me to put my fuselage in many more
>>positions within my workshop
>> then rigging the wings. Thank Frank
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410864#410864
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 4
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 05:09:04 AM PST US
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Classic Centre Console
>> From: Carl Pattinson <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>>
>>
>> I don't have a copy of mod 24 to hand but seem to
>>remember the factory method was
>> a bit of a "bodge" IMHO which is why we opted for a
>>different solution. We
>> created our LA inserts on the workbench (in the shape of
>>a half kidney) then
>> reduxed them onto the hole we had cut in the cockpit
>>module sides - then 4 layers
>> of bid inside and outside at the join edges for added
>>strength.
>>
>> I would be inclined to leave this as late in the build
>>as possible as you really
>> need the swinging arm and tyre in place to get an
>>accurate fit. We got it wrong
>> first time around and the tyre jammed in the up position
>>- solved that little
>> hitch by fitting a narrower tyre and judicious use of a
>>hot air gun to reform
>> the bulge in the LA inserts.
>>
>> With hindsight I think it would be possible to construct
>>the innermost bid layer
>> of the LA bulge once the wheel was in place. It would
>>then be relatively easy
>> (once cured) to bond in the thin foam layer and complete
>>the outside layers
>> of bid from outside. If you had access to a vacuum pump
>>you could vacuum mould
>> the foam and bid layers onto the original inner layers
>>of glass which would give
>> a strong air free structure.
>>
>> I have some pics somewhere - will try and dig them out.
>>
>> Carl Pattinson
>> G-LABS
>>
>>
>> Sent from my ASUS Pad
>>
>> spcialeffects <spcialeffects@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> So after much thought I have decided to do mod 24,
>>>however I'm abit scared to
>> make the first cut of the centre console as it seems to
>>be quite a drastic mod
>> to get extra bum room but I am going to do it. I just
>>wanted to ask, before I
>> start it, to anyone here who has done this mod if they
>>could post some pictures,
>> give any tips but most of all how far into the tunnel
>>did you go? I.e how
>> much extra bum space did you achieve. Now the
>>instruction sheet I have says to
>> make sure you miss the rudder cables and flap arm but I
>>am looking at doing this
>> mod with the bear module so it is easier to lay up the
>>inside so any measurements
>> would be appricated. Failing all of that if you are
>>selling an XS module
>> please contact me also. Thanks Frank
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410863#410863
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 5
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 06:42:43 AM PST US
>> From: Steve Eberhart <steve@newtech.com>
>> Subject: Europa-List: KEVV - Evansville Indiana EAA
>>Chapter 21 Wings and Wheels
>> this weekend
>>
>>
>> Our Third Annual Wings and Wheels event is this
>>Saturday
>>
>>
>> We have had over 200 Cruisers at each of our first
>>two Wings and
>> Wheels This year should continue building on our
>>great start.
>> Cruise-In or Fly-In and help us set a new
>>attendance record this year
>>
>>
>> 10:00 AM till 3:00 PM Central time.
>>
>>
>> Tri-State Aero (KEVV), Ramp and Parking Lot.
>>
>>
>> Here are some pics of previous Wings and wheels.
>> Our 2013 Wings
>> and Wheels event will be at Tri-State Aero October
>>19th, 2013.
>>
>>
>> http://www.eaa21.org/WingsandWheels.jpg
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka1Sg7tmULc
>>
>> http://www.eaa21.org/coppermine1/thumbnails.php?album=2
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 6
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 08:16:37 AM PST US
>> From: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dummy spars
>>
>>
>> I do have a dummy spar which I have no use for, so I can
>>send it to
>> you if needed.
>>
>> On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend using the dummy
>>spars for
>> aligning the spars to the cockpit module. It only takes
>>a fraction of
>> a mm misalignment of the bushings to make the pin
>>insertion and
>> retraction very stiff.
>>
>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 7:20 AM, spcialeffects
>>><spcialeffects@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> If anyone has a set of dummy spars I could borrow or buy
>>>I would be very grateful
>> as this will allow me to put my fuselage in many more
>>positions within my
>> workshop then rigging the wings. Thank Frank
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410864#410864
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 7
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 08:43:49 AM PST US
>> From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dummy spars
>>
>>
>>
>> Frank, I would advise making your own, lining them up
>> precicely on your wing spars and only doing it when you
>> are ready to use them. If they are made of wood or most
>> anything non metallic there is a danger of change in
>> humidity altering their dimensions oherwise. Regards,
>> David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>>
>> On Sat, 19 Oct 2013 11:15:42 -0400
>> Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <asarangan@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> I do have a dummy spar which I have no use for, so I can
>>> send it to
>>> you if needed.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend using the dummy
>>> spars for
>>> aligning the spars to the cockpit module. It only takes
>>> a fraction of
>>> a mm misalignment of the bushings to make the pin
>>> insertion and
>>> retraction very stiff.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 7:20 AM, spcialeffects
>>> <spcialeffects@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> <spcialeffects@aol.com>
>>>>
>>>> If anyone has a set of dummy spars I could borrow or buy
>>>> I would be very grateful as this will allow me to put my
>>>> fuselage in many more positions within my workshop then
>>>> rigging the wings. Thank Frank
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410864#410864
>>>
>>> Un/Subscription,
>>> Forums!
>>> Admin.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 8
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 08:49:04 AM PST US
>> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Dummy spars
>> From: "Richard Wheelwright" <rpwheelwright@yahoo.co.uk>
>>
>>
>> Frank,
>>
>> I also recommend using the wings.
>>
>> I also have a dummy spar you can have (Never Used)
>>
>> --------
>> Richard Wheelwright
>> G-IRPW
>> First Flight 24th July 2013
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410872#410872
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 9
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 10:00:38 AM PST US
>> From: "Rob Housman" <rob@hyperion-ef.com>
>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Dummy spars
>>
>>
>> I must take exception to the part about "...make the pin
>>insertion and
>> retraction very stiff." In my case the word
>>"impossible" is substituted for
>> "stiff." The "dummy" in dummy spar is the builder who
>>uses it.
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Rob Housman
>> Europa XS A070
>> Rotax 914
>> Airframe complete
>> Avionics a work in progress
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On
>>Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan
>> Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 8:16 AM
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Dummy spars
>>
>>
>> I do have a dummy spar which I have no use for, so I can
>>send it to you if
>> needed.
>>
>> On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend using the dummy
>>spars for aligning
>> the spars to the cockpit module. It only takes a
>>fraction of a mm
>> misalignment of the bushings to make the pin insertion
>>and retraction very
>> stiff.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 7:20 AM, spcialeffects
>><spcialeffects@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>> --> <spcialeffects@aol.com>
>>>
>>> If anyone has a set of dummy spars I could borrow or buy
>>>I would be
>>> very grateful as this will allow me to put my fuselage
>>>in many more
>>> positions within my workshop then rigging the wings.
>>>Thank Frank
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410864#410864
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ Message 10
>> ____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 01:39:46 PM PST US
>> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Battery questions
>> From: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net>
>>
>>
>> Hi David.
>> That all seems reasonable, nothing to gripe there,
>>
>> But to check the wiring and operation of a working
>>serviceable system, and see
>> it is functioning correctly as per wiring if correctly
>>done, as there is no testing
>> circuit, I guess the only way is to have the engine
>>running and remove on
>> of the battery leads, to check the engine and pumps will
>>solely running on the
>> power from the Alternator. Maybe some one has a better
>>way to check this.
>>
>> Regards
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410884#410884
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>Admin.
>
>
>
Message 8
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|
Gents, Does anybody have a cooling air duct for a 912uls,( new or in
good condition )that they are prepared to sell me?
Thanks Rod.
Message 9
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| Subject: | upholstery backing |
What have builders done in regard to attachment of upholstery: just stray glued
material/leatherette to side walls etc? used a backing foam?
or used some form of sub panel. I am thinking mostly about the side walls.
I have found a decent fire retardant fabric and made some patterns.
I am concerned that if I just glue it it wont conform well to the shapes in the
side wall.
I have considered card as a sub panel but am concerned about moisture absorption
and flammability. Maybe very thin aluminium ? I cant think what would be suitable.
I don't want to eat into the seat width a lot but it would be nice to be
able to put your hand down the side for that camera or lost pen with scraping
on the glass fiber.
I don't suppose anyone has a set of patterns kicking around?
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY
Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
Newby: 75 hours 18 months
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410922#410922
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Re: upholstery backing |
Graeme, for the front side walls a 2mm foam covered by
Alcantara worked well for me, both fixed with Evostick
rubber glue. For the walls behind the seats I just used
spray paint in a compatible colour. But much to be said
for going to the Rally and looking inside. Lot of planes
to see wht you like the look of.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 09:08:21 -0700
"graeme bird" <graeme@gdbmk.co.uk> wrote:
><graeme@gdbmk.co.uk>
>
> What have builders done in regard to attachment of
>upholstery: just stray glued material/leatherette to side
>walls etc? used a backing foam?
> or used some form of sub panel. I am thinking mostly
>about the side walls.
> I have found a decent fire retardant fabric and made
>some patterns.
> I am concerned that if I just glue it it wont conform
>well to the shapes in the side wall.
> I have considered card as a sub panel but am concerned
>about moisture absorption and flammability. Maybe very
>thin aluminium ? I cant think what would be suitable. I
>don't want to eat into the seat width a lot but it would
>be nice to be able to put your hand down the side for
>that camera or lost pen with scraping on the glass fiber.
>
> I don't suppose anyone has a set of patterns kicking
>around?
>
> --------
> Graeme Bird
> G-UMPY
> Mono Classic/XS 912S/Woodcomp 3000/3W
> Newby: 75 hours 18 months
> g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410922#410922
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>Admin.
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912uls |
Rod
Do you mean the fibreglass shroud around the engine block or the cold air pl
enum chamber that attaches to the upper cowling? I have both available unuse
d and generally ask half of the entail price plus post and packing. Contact m
e off list if the interested.
Kind regards
Richard CC
Sent from my iPad
> On 20 Oct 2013, at 19:21, "Gill & Rod Palmer" <gilrod@tiscali.co.uk> wrote
:
>
> Gents, Does anybody have a cooling air duct for a 912uls,( new or in good
condition )that they are prepared to sell me?
> Thanks Rod.
>
>
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912uls |
Richard,
I would be interested in the cooling shroud that goes over the top of
the block and directs cooling air down through the cylinders if that is
one of the pieces you have. If that's the piece that Rod is interested
in, then he gets first dibs on it. If it's not the piece he's
interested in, I'll provide your asking price and pay for any shipping.
Let me know how it goes.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Oct 20, 2013, at 12:54 PM, Sky Mail
<richard.churchill-coleman@sky.com> wrote:
Rod
Do you mean the fibreglass shroud around the engine block or the cold
air plenum chamber that attaches to the upper cowling? I have both
available unused and generally ask half of the entail price plus post
and packing. Contact me off list if the interested.
Kind regards
Richard CC
Message 13
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Sorry mate, I don't understand your reply! How can I ask the question on
the Europa Aircraft forum section.
Rod.
Message 14
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| Subject: | 914 Fuel Flow Indicators |
Gidday,
Could I please request input of the preferred brands of Fuel Flow Indicators currently
in favour that cope well with a second transducer in calculating the 914
usage? I am working on my panel layout and it would be handy to tighten up
in my thinking what is the best option. Thanks.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
Sent from my iPad
Message 15
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Rod,
Not sure where this thread started, but you just send an e-mail with
your question(s) to this address: europa-list@matronics.com
The question will be delivered to the Europa-List forum members and,
with any luck, you'll receive an answer or maybe a couple dozen
different answers.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Oct 20, 2013, at 2:54 PM, Gill & Rod Palmer <gilrod@tiscali.co.uk>
wrote:
Sorry mate, I don't understand your reply! How can I ask the question on
the Europa Aircraft forum section.
Rod.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Fuel Flow Indicators |
Hi Tony=0Abest flow transducers are Floscan, you will need two. Sadly they
aint't cheap!=0AIf you can find a marine or automotive equivalent they will
be cheaper. Dynon use an equivalen but can't remember what its called, som
eone will?=0AGraham=0Abtw hope the forest fires don't bother you.=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw26
8@gmail.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 20 October 20
13, 21:39=0ASubject: Europa-List: 914 Fuel Flow Indicators=0A =0A=0A--> Eur
opa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0A=0AGi
dday,=0ACould I please request input of the preferred brands of Fuel Flow I
ndicators currently in favour that cope well with a second transducer in ca
lculating the 914 usage? I am working on my panel layout and it would be ha
ndy to tighten up in my thinking what is the best option. Thanks.=0ARegards
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admi
=====
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Fuel Flow Indicators |
Gidday Tony,
I have a Grand Rapids EIS 4000 with fuel return option on my 914. ( http://www.grtavionics.com/eis4000.html )
I don't know what other engine instrumentation you already have so this may be
serious overkill for your needs, but it has worked well as a total Engine Information
System for me.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Oct 20, 2013, at 3:39 PM, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
Gidday,
Could I please request input of the preferred brands of Fuel Flow Indicators currently
in favour that cope well with a second transducer in calculating the 914
usage? I am working on my panel layout and it would be handy to tighten up
in my thinking what is the best option. Thanks.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
Message 18
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Thanks Nev! I am copying your notes and taking them to the hangar. I am getting
a bit lost in the terms "tows". "rovings". I'm a bit confused about the packing
of the carbon fibre in the mold. Does it wedge into the narrow end and stop,
or does it loop and come back out? I am guessing it wedges in, but I am not
sure what the significance of the 17 foot length is. It would be great if Europa
had a video of the installation of the carbon into the mold.
I am committed to the project now. I've been thinking for month about how hard
it would be to remove the bushings from the spar tang. It went very well with
heat and it looks like I will be actually grinding tomorrow or the next day on
the first victim. I bought a 6 inch pneumatic grinder and hope that will work,
but I might be able to fit a 4 inch head on it if necessary.
I did a test fit of the intensifier board and it looks like I have plenty of clearance
from the tank and the items below.
Is it necessary to remove the fibre glass layers from the root rib, or could I
sand and glass over them - making it thicker and heavier, but avoids grinding
at the root rib - along with the glass used to secure the wing root fairing.
Thanks! Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410964#410964
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_2502_104.jpg
Message 19
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Sorry - didn't mean to post such a big picture file. Oops!
Dave
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410965#410965
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