Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:28 AM - Re: 914 Fuel Flow Indicators (David Joyce)
2. 02:08 AM - Re: 914 Fuel Flow Indicators (DAVID JOYCE)
3. 02:52 AM - Re: Re: Battery Questions (Frans Veldman)
4. 04:23 AM - Re: Re: Battery Questions (David Joyce)
5. 05:27 AM - aileron and flap close outs (William Daniell)
6. 05:43 AM - Re: 914 Fuel Flow Indicators (h&jeuropa)
7. 06:03 AM - Re: aileron and flap close outs (Nigel Graham)
8. 06:36 AM - Re: aileron and flap close outs (Nigel Graham)
9. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Battery Questions (Fred Klein)
10. 01:27 PM - Re: aileron and flap close outs (Robert Borger)
11. 01:46 PM - Re: aileron and flap close outs (Fred Klein)
12. 01:58 PM - Re: aileron and flap close outs (Fred Klein)
13. 02:51 PM - Re: aileron and flap close outs (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
14. 03:18 PM - Rotax TCU software (Greg Fuchs)
15. 03:21 PM - Firewall Forward (Greg Fuchs)
16. 03:23 PM - Re: aileron and flap close outs (Bob Harrison)
17. 03:51 PM - =?windows-1252?Q?MGL_Avionics_Primary_Flight_Display_=85=2Eis_an?= =?windows-1252?Q?yone_using_them? (Tony Renshaw)
18. 06:22 PM - Re: Re: Battery Questions (Kevin Klinefelter)
19. 06:27 PM - Re: MOD 78 (djaflyact)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: 914 Fuel Flow Indicators |
Tony, if it really is just a fuel flow instrument you want
the FS450 with 2 Floscan transducers is or at least was
the best, but I would now go for an engine monitoring
system which includes fuel flow rather than a lot of
seperate instruments. An EIS will tell you as soon as
anything departs from your preset norms, rather than you
having to keep looking at lots of dials and potentially
missing that plane on a converging course. That is to say
that you have the chance of designing your panel so as to
minimize the time you need to spend looking at it
Regards, David Joyce, G - XSDJ
On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 07:39:10 +1100
Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
><tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>
> Gidday,
> Could I please request input of the preferred brands of
>Fuel Flow Indicators currently in favour that cope well
>with a second transducer in calculating the 914 usage? I
>am working on my panel layout and it would be handy to
>tighten up in my thinking what is the best option.
>Thanks.
> Regards
> Tony Renshaw
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>Admin.
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: 914 Fuel Flow Indicators |
Dynon use "Cube"=0A-=0Ahope this helps?=0A-=0Argds=0AThe other one=0A
=0ASent to you from David Joyce=0Awww.eastmidsspas.com=0A=0A =0A=0A________
________________________=0A From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinter
net.com>=0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europa-list@matronics.com> =0AS
ent: Sunday, 20 October 2013, 22:31=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Fuel Fl
ow Indicators=0A =0A=0A=0AHi Tony=0Abest flow transducers are Floscan, you
will need two. Sadly they aint't cheap!=0AIf you can find a marine or auto
motive equivalent they will be cheaper. Dynon use an equivalen but can't re
member what its called, someone will?=0AGraham=0Abtw hope the forest fires
don't bother you.=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Ton
y Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASen
t: Sunday, 20 October 2013, 21:39=0ASubject: Europa-List: 914 Fuel Flow Ind
haw268@gmail.com>=0A=0AGidday,=0ACould I please request input of the prefer
red brands of Fuel Flow Indicators currently in favour that cope well with
a second transducer in calculating the 914 usage? I am working on my panel
layout and it would be handy to tighten up in my thinking what is the best
option. Thanks.=0ARegards=0ATony Renshaw=0A=0A=0ASent from my iPad http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.sp; - - - -
- - List Contribution Web Site -=0A_; - - - - - - - -
- - &nb://www.matronics.com/contribution"=0A========0A=0A
===================
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Battery Questions |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On 10/20/2013 04:59 PM, David Joyce wrote:
> Creighton, If you look at the Odyssey technical manual for the p680
> you will find they give 8 hrs for a 2amp discharge rate and 5hrs
> for the 3amp discharge.
This is for optimum conditions:
1) Perfect temperature
2) Perfect charge state
3) Fresh battery
In reality you can't count on the advertised capacity.
1) In cold weather the battery capacity can easily be 50% of the
advertised capacity. Elevated temperatures (like under the cowling)
are detrimental as well.
2) A full charge van only be obtained when charging with at least 14.5
Volts. My experience with the Rotax "rectifier" is that it tapers of
at around 13.7 Volts. This is good for battery life, but it means you
will roughly only get 70% of the capacity.
Furthermore, the startup sequence can consume quit some capacity, and
it takes a while to recharge this loss. If you get the engine failure
soon after the take off, the recharging might not have been completed.
Last but not least quite some capacity can get lost between the time
of the alternator failure and the pilot taking appropriate action. If
a "low voltage" warning is your first sign of trouble, it means you
have trouble indeed because the battery has already given away most of
its precious amp-hours.
3) Batteries age. Some people keep the battery for 4 years or longer.
Much of the capacity is gone by then, but you won't notice a thing
until you really need it. Voltage does not sag due to aging, and
starting will remain as usual. As soon as starting capacity is
noticably going down, you have lost about 90% of the capacity.
It might be a good thing to measure the capacity of the battery once a
year. Put on the fuel pump and a few other necessities, and measure
how much time it takes before you hit 11 Volts.
Note that such a run down test is bad for the battery but if you do
that only once a year it doesn't matter too much.
> Perhaps what you say applies to ordinary lead acd batteries but not
> to the superior technology of the Odyssey.
It is still a lead acid battery and all the physics apply to it
nevertheless.
Anyway, I wouldn't count on an advertised capacity; I would land as
soon as possible if the battery is the only current source to keep the
fuel pump going.
Frans
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Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Battery Questions |
Frans, As always there is much in what you say, but an
Odyssey is a gas recombinant lead acid battery and has
many characteristics quite different from conventional
lead acid batteries, such as the ability to withstand many
cycles of deep discharge, to have a significantly longer
life, to work normally at very cold temperatures and more
specifically to charge to 97% on a voltage of just 13.5v
and to retain 80% of its rated capacity until the end of
its useful life.
None of that of course makes it a good idea to be
in the habit of flying around assuming that it will keep
the pumps going for hours!
Regards, David
On Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:50:31 +0200
Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl> wrote:
><frans@privatepilots.nl>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 10/20/2013 04:59 PM, David Joyce wrote:
>
>> Creighton, If you look at the Odyssey technical manual
>>for the p680
>> you will find they give 8 hrs for a 2amp discharge rate
>>and 5hrs
>> for the 3amp discharge.
>
> This is for optimum conditions:
> 1) Perfect temperature
> 2) Perfect charge state
> 3) Fresh battery
>
> In reality you can't count on the advertised capacity.
> 1) In cold weather the battery capacity can easily be
>50% of the
> advertised capacity. Elevated temperatures (like under
>the cowling)
> are detrimental as well.
> 2) A full charge van only be obtained when charging with
>at least 14.5
> Volts. My experience with the Rotax "rectifier" is that
>it tapers of
> at around 13.7 Volts. This is good for battery life, but
>it means you
> will roughly only get 70% of the capacity.
>Furthermore, the startup sequence can consume quit some
>capacity, and
> it takes a while to recharge this loss. If you get the
>engine failure
> soon after the take off, the recharging might not have
>been completed.
> Last but not least quite some capacity can get lost
>between the time
> of the alternator failure and the pilot taking
>appropriate action. If
> a "low voltage" warning is your first sign of trouble,
>it means you
> have trouble indeed because the battery has already
>given away most of
> its precious amp-hours.
> 3) Batteries age. Some people keep the battery for 4
>years or longer.
> Much of the capacity is gone by then, but you won't
>notice a thing
> until you really need it. Voltage does not sag due to
>aging, and
> starting will remain as usual. As soon as starting
>capacity is
> noticably going down, you have lost about 90% of the
>capacity.
>
> It might be a good thing to measure the capacity of the
>battery once a
> year. Put on the fuel pump and a few other necessities,
>and measure
> how much time it takes before you hit 11 Volts.
> Note that such a run down test is bad for the battery
>but if you do
> that only once a year it doesn't matter too much.
>
>> Perhaps what you say applies to ordinary lead acd
>>batteries but not
>> to the superior technology of the Odyssey.
>
> It is still a lead acid battery and all the physics
>apply to it
> nevertheless.
>
> Anyway, I wouldn't count on an advertised capacity; I
>would land as
> soon as possible if the battery is the only current
>source to keep the
> fuel pump going.
>
>Frans
>
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>Admin.
>
>
>
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Subject: | aileron and flap close outs |
Has anyone filled these? Is this the general practice?
I am thinking that the =9Chollow=9D area of the close out
should be filled with something light like blue foam.
Will
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Subject: | Re: 914 Fuel Flow Indicators |
The "cube" is made by EI. All the EFIS and engine monitor manufacturers use it
now instead of FloScan transducers.
As suggested above, since you're just starting on your panel, consider a EFIS with
full engine monitoring. We have two GRT Sport EFIS and a GRT EIS which really
is the interface to the EFIS. Works great!
Jim & Heather
N241BW
Mono 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410992#410992
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: aileron and flap close outs |
I'm not sure if its general practice but I did it (and the ailerons).
Make for a neat end with a very clean gap and eliminates the eddies. I
just tapped the flap end-on to the prepared foam to print the exact
profile before cutting - easy.
Nigel
On 21/10/2013 13:26, William Daniell wrote:
>
> Has anyone filled these? Is this the general practice?
>
> I am thinking that the hollow area of the close out should be filled
> with something light like blue foam.
>
> Will
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: aileron and flap close outs |
I'm not sure if its general practice but I did it to both the flaps and
ailerons. Makes for a neat end with a very clean gap and eliminates the
eddies. I just tapped the flap end-on to the prepared foam to print the
exact profile before cutting - easy.
Nigel
On 21/10/2013 13:26, William Daniell wrote:
>
> Has anyone filled these? Is this the general practice?
>
> I am thinking that the hollow area of the close out should be filled
> with something light like blue foam.
>
> Will
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Battery Questions |
This is an issue I've spent a lot of time on recently as I endeavor to ensure safe
flight following an alternator failure in my totally electrically dependent
MPEFI engine. Much of that time has been spent on the AeroElectric-list @ matronics
which I've found to be an excellent source of information...particularly
for one who is an electrical neophyte.
One of the things I've learned is that a battery's (available) cranking power says
nothing about it's ability to provide sustained power when there's a significant
load. Don't assume that just because it could start the engine it has an
ample reserve of amps to be drawn upon.
In my case, the total draw of fuel pump, ECU, fuel injectors, and coils is between
10 and 11 amps...add to that the draw for minimal components on an endurance
bus (intercom, xpndr, some minimal cockpit lighting, etc.).
At this point as I continue to refine a basic circuitry diagram, among other things,
I will have 2 Odyssey 680s wired as one, and will replace one at some interval
(either annually, bi-annually, or at some interval as experience dictates)
in order to raise the level of probability that alternator failure will be
a low pucker factor event.
...on this misty morning, a pair of bald eagles taunt me over the sea beyond my
kitchen window,
Fred
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: aileron and flap close outs |
Will,
FWIW, I did as Graham and filled the ends of the flaps, ailerons and
closeouts with foam, lightweight filler & a layer of glass. Don't know
that it does much aerodynamically, but I think it looks better.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Oct 21, 2013, at 7:26 AM, William Daniell
<wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone filled these? Is this the general practice?
I am thinking that the =93hollow=94 area of the close out should be
filled with something light like blue foam.
Will
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: aileron and flap close outs |
Will...Ditto...Fred
On Oct 21, 2013, at 12:58 PM, Robert Borger wrote:
> FWIW, I did as Graham and filled the ends of the flaps, ailerons and
closeouts with foam, lightweight filler & a layer of glass. Don't know
that it does much aerodynamically, but I think it looks better.
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: aileron and flap close outs |
On Oct 21, 2013, at 5:26 AM, William Daniell wrote:
> Has anyone filled these?
Will...when I filled mine, I formed a guide for the flap drive pin...Fred
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Subject: | Re: aileron and flap close outs |
That's what you need for one man rigging. Works too.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0A From: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline
.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Monday, 21 October 2013, 21:
57=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: aileron and flap close outs=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A
=0AOn Oct 21, 2013, at 5:26 AM, William Daniell wrote:=0A=0AHas anyone fill
ed these? -=0A=0AWill...when I filled mine, I -formed a guide for the f
lap drive pin...Fred
Message 14
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Subject: | Rotax TCU software |
To Forum,
I have searched, but so far have not been able to find the software for the
Rotax914 TCU part# 966 470.
Could someone please forward it to me in email?
It also requires a dongle, and I have heard of someone having success with a
straight-thru cable, so I will start there unless redirected..
Thanks,
Greg A050
Do Not Archive
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Subject: | Firewall Forward |
I forgot to mention, If anyone is parting out a kit and has a Firewall
forward for the XS model and 914 engine, please let me know.
Thankyou,
GregA050
Do Not Archive
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Subject: | aileron and flap close outs |
Hi! Will.
I actually included a tapered guide tube to receive the flap drive shaft
so it engages on the drive pin when doing self assembly rigging
And I recall that I included some backing foam within the construction
and arranged for the close out to fit close to the fuselage but it needs
fairing into match the wing to fuselage radius when the flaps are in
retracted position.
There is photo on the site which John Cliff runs.:-
http://www.users.waitrose.com/~jcliff/BobH/FlapCov/Flapcovs.htm
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Daniell
Sent: 21 October 2013 13:27
Subject: Europa-List: aileron and flap close outs
Has anyone filled these? Is this the general practice?
I am thinking that the =9Chollow=9D area of the close out
should be filled with something light like blue foam.
Will
Message 17
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Subject: | =?windows-1252?Q?MGL_Avionics_Primary_Flight_Display_=85=2Eis_an?= |
=?windows-1252?Q?yone_using_them?
Gidday,
MGL Avionics have been around a while now, and I am wondering if anyone has chosen
them over Dynon or GRT, or another EFIS manufacturer of favour who's name
escapes me? They have a new 8.5 and 10.4" touchscreen, high resolution display,
but I believe brightness is probably the most important thing. I do know that
their operating system allows a significant amount of presentation modifying
which might suit some builders whilst it can also lead to potential instability
problems when compared with a tried and locked down operating system. Any input
much appreciated.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Battery Questions |
Atta Boy Fred,
I went with a second alternator on the 914 and one PC680. I have our Subaru Legacy
fitted with a PC680, so when I pull the battery every two years out of the
Europa, it goes in the car for two years. Just about the time the car seems to
crank a little slower in cold weather, it's two years are up.
Kevin
On Oct 21, 2013, at 8:32 AM, Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
>
> This is an issue I've spent a lot of time on recently as I endeavor to ensure
safe flight following an alternator failure in my totally electrically dependent
MPEFI engine. Much of that time has been spent on the AeroElectric-list @
matronics which I've found to be an excellent source of information...particularly
for one who is an electrical neophyte.
>
> One of the things I've learned is that a battery's (available) cranking power
says nothing about it's ability to provide sustained power when there's a significant
load. Don't assume that just because it could start the engine it has
an ample reserve of amps to be drawn upon.
>
> In my case, the total draw of fuel pump, ECU, fuel injectors, and coils is between
10 and 11 amps...add to that the draw for minimal components on an endurance
bus (intercom, xpndr, some minimal cockpit lighting, etc.).
>
> At this point as I continue to refine a basic circuitry diagram, among other
things, I will have 2 Odyssey 680s wired as one, and will replace one at some
interval (either annually, bi-annually, or at some interval as experience dictates)
in order to raise the level of probability that alternator failure will
be a low pucker factor event.
>
> ...on this misty morning, a pair of bald eagles taunt me over the sea beyond
my kitchen window,
>
> Fred
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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Update on Mod 78.
Taking my time and being careful makes this go smoothly so far. I did not intend
to grind today, but ended up completing about 1/8th of the dirty stinkings job.
So far, so good.
Dave
A227
Motorglider
550 Hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411045#411045
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http://forums.matronics.com//files/grinding_setup_982.jpg
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