---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/28/13: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:38 AM - =?windows-1252?Q?Wing_to_Fuse_Fairings=85=85=2E=2EAlternative_Me?= =?windows-1252?Q?thods=85=2Emaybe? (Tony Renshaw) 2. 04:07 AM - =?utf-8?B?UmU6IEV1cm9wYS1MaXN0OiBXaW5nIHRvIEZ1c2UgRmFpcmluZ3PigKbigKYu?= =?utf-8?B?LkFsdGVybmF0aXZlIE1ldGhvZHPigKYubWF5YmU=? (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 3. 04:50 AM - access door hinges (Jan de Jong) 4. 04:51 AM - Oil and collant radiators (William Daniell) 5. 04:59 AM - more instruments (Jan de Jong) 6. 06:02 AM - Re: Oil and collant radiators (Bob Harrison) 7. 06:22 AM - Tony Wickens......... Editor Europa Flyer (Bob Harrison) 8. 06:52 AM - Re: Oil and collant radiators (William Daniell) 9. 06:52 AM - Re: Tony Wickens......... Editor Europa Flyer (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk) 10. 06:56 AM - Re: Tony Wickens......... Editor Europa Flyer (pjeffers@talktalk.net) 11. 07:09 AM - Re: more instruments (Max Cointe (Free)) 12. 07:24 AM - Re: access door hinges (Robert Borger) 13. 07:33 AM - Re: more instruments (Robert Borger) 14. 07:49 AM - Re: more instruments (Karl Heindl) 15. 08:07 AM - Re: more instruments (Bob Harrison) 16. 08:31 AM - Re: Some nice NZ scenery (duanefamly@aol.com) 17. 09:42 AM - Tyres for tri gear (Kevin Challis) 18. 11:20 AM - Re: Tyres for tri gear (Jeff B) 19. 11:40 AM - Re: Tyres for tri gear (Kevin Challis) 20. 02:59 PM - =?windows-1252?Q?AN3_Nut_Torque_Values=85=85=2Eor_any_Torque_Val?= =?windows-1252?Q?ues_depending_on_type_of_Nuts? (Tony Renshaw) 21. 03:39 PM - =?utf-8?B?UmU6IEV1cm9wYS1MaXN0OiBBTjMgTnV0IFRvcnF1ZSBWYWx1ZXPigKbigKYu?= =?utf-8?B?b3IgYW55IFRvcnF1ZSBWYWx1ZXMgZGVwZW5kaW5nIG9uIHR5cGUgb2YgTnV0?= =?utf-8?B?cw==? (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 22. 05:17 PM - Re: Some nice NZ scenery (Rob Waters) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:13 AM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: =?windows-1252?Q?Wing_to_Fuse_Fairings=85=85=2E=2EAlternative_Me?= =?windows-1252?Q?thods=85=2Emaybe? Gidday, I'm after advice regarding the wing to fuse fairings, whether an alternative method was attempted by anyone else, as I'm a little bit motivated in that regard. I'm using Fred Kleins P51 trailing edge to fuse mouldings, and it suits that setup that I know where the extension of the wing meets the fuse, so, I've used thin foam glued ontop of the wing, shaped to the fuse as a "shelf" which I've built up on the closeout side, and then lay-up BID ontop to reinforce it. So, once the original foam on the top of the wing has been removed I now have the wing extended all the way to the fuse. I can now more accurately shape foam to the fuse, which especially on the underside requires the foam to be shaped to be well over 90 degrees, to mate with the face. If I wasn't working upside down I'd bog it up with car bog, and then shape it, which would create a perfect layup substrate. Still, I can't, but since I have the wing skin extended all the way to the fuse i am wondering if anyone has any suggestions. I hear that it is a good idea to make the fairings flexible, because under aerodynamic load they need to be able to flex. My first question is, had anyone made rigid fairings, and do they pop against the fuse under G, or are there any negatives? My setup if I persist will result in a triangular cross section which won't flex easily, vs what the book wants, and also there is the issue of the number of plies i need to use. It didn't make sense to me to follow the book on the top, and bottom of the Leading edge where I have on average 10-15 mm max of gap, and with a 25 mm radius, it just didn't gel with me as the best way. Maybe I should clarify where the gap on the trailing edge is far more, so it seemed I needed to extend the wing anyway. Any help with alternative suggestions would be appreciated. I know what the book says, but my question is more pertinent to those that might have chosen an alternative method. Thanks. regards Tony Renshaw Sydney Aussie. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:07:29 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Europa-List: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IEV1cm9wYS1MaXN0OiBXaW5nIHRvIEZ1c2UgRmFpcmluZ3PigKbigKYu?= =?utf-8?B?LkFsdGVybmF0aXZlIE1ldGhvZHPigKYubWF5YmU=? Tony=0AJustin Kennedy has wing root fairings that are very similar to Fred' s and he's been flying for years.=0AYou could ask him if there are any down sides to the way he did it (with Ted Gladstone)=0AJustin@systemwise.co.uk T he upside is a marked performance improvement I understand.=0ASorry can't f ind any pix=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: T ony Renshaw =0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Monday, 28 October 2013, 7:37=0ASubject: Europa-List: Wing to Fuse Fairings..Alternative Methods onyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0A=0AGidday,=0AI'm after advice regarding the wing to fuse fairings, whether an alternative method was attempted by anyone el se, as I'm a little bit motivated in that regard. I'm using Fred Kleins P51 trailing edge to fuse mouldings, and it suits that setup that I know where the extension of the wing meets the fuse, so, I've used thin foam glued on top of the wing, shaped to the fuse as a "shelf" which I've built up on the closeout side, and then lay-up BID ontop to reinforce it. So, once the ori ginal foam on the top of the wing has been removed I now have the wing exte nded all the way to the fuse. I can now more accurately shape foam to the f use, which especially on the underside requires the foam to be shaped to be well over 90 degrees, to mate with the face. If I wasn't working upside do wn I'd bog it up with car bog, and then shape it, which would create a perf ect layup substrate. Still, I can't, but since I have the wing skin extende d all the way to the fuse i am wondering if anyone has!=0A=C2- any suggestions. I hear that it is a goo d idea to make the fairings flexible, because under aerodynamic load they n eed to be able to flex. =0AMy first question is, had anyone made rigid fair ings, and do they pop against the fuse under G, or are there any negatives? My setup if I persist will result in a triangular cross section which won' t flex easily, vs what the book wants, and also there is the issue of the n umber of plies i need to use. It didn't make sense to me to follow the book on the top, and bottom of the Leading edge where I have on average 10-15 m m max of gap, and with a 25 mm radius, it just didn't gel with me as the be st way. Maybe I should clarify where the gap on the trailing edge is far mo re, so it seemed I needed to extend the wing anyway. =0AAny help with alter native suggestions would be appreciated. I know what the book says, but my question is more pertinent to those that might have chosen an alternative m - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -=0A_ =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 ======================== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:52 AM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Europa-List: access door hinges Hi all, This may be an old trick but I newly discovered it. A small access door hinge of 2 x 0.5" one side, 0.25" + 0.5" + 0.25" the other, can be made to come apart easily by putting in a 4 x 0.5" pin instead of a 1 x 2" pin. Moving it 0.25" does it. The abutting hinge pin sections are contained by a split pin or a piece of safety wire through a 1mm hole at each end. The advantage is that only very little room at one end of the hinge is needed. Jan de Jong ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:51 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: Europa-List: Oil and collant radiators The manual shows an arrangement with the oil rad behind the coolant rad. I seem to recall that the optimum cooling was an arrangement with the coolant rad above the oil rad such that the oil rad dint receive already heated air. Is this correct and if so where do I find the pics. Will ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:21 AM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Europa-List: more instruments Hi all, Further to recent discussion two European instrument producers for a change. An Italian company: http://www.flyboxavionics.it/en/index.html A Slovenian company: http://www.kanardia.eu/ Any experiences anybody? Jan de Jong ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:25 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Oil and collant radiators Hi! Will, Since my oil never gets to a reasonable temperature anyway ....... ! The general plan is to have the oil cooler set slightly (about 1.5 inches lower that the water cooling Rad. Also have plans to plug the gap below both radiators and the bottom of the cowl. When I have time a friend gave me a thermostat oil controller to elevate the oil temperature but I need to prove the oil temperature sensor before I =9Cmonkey=9D with the system. I have a much modified cooling air intake and also an intake air flap to direct more cold air to the radiator on a delayed departure situation. Frans has a wealth of info. on this subject and he may share some of it with you but we all need to know what Europa and what engine have you ? Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 28 October 2013 11:51 Subject: Europa-List: Oil and collant radiators The manual shows an arrangement with the oil rad behind the coolant rad. I seem to recall that the optimum cooling was an arrangement with the coolant rad above the oil rad such that the oil rad dint receive already heated air. Is this correct and if so where do I find the pics. Will ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:15 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: Europa-List: Tony Wickens......... Editor Europa Flyer Does Anyone know if the whereabouts of Tony Wickens ? I have for two weeks tried to connect with him but to no avail . Regards Bob Harrison. G-PTAG ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:03 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Oil and collant radiators Graham Thanks that pretty much answers my question for now as I am in the process of building the ducting However further information would be gratefully received especially with respect to ducting and airflow. I figure that once it=99s all set up it=99s much easier to deal with a cool running engine than a hot running engine. I have a tri. The engine part is a little more complex. My engine is a turbo 912 - a Colombian adaptation which originated before the 914 came out to cope with the high altitudes. This has a very similar footprint to a 914. I normally limit the MAP to 33=9D. I have one in my ICP Savannah and it works extremely well and it has never overheated but this aircraft has a HUGE radiator and lots of space under the cowl. As far as the heat generation is concerned I suspect it is somewhere between a 912S and a 914. I have the standard Europa 914 kit components inc oil and coolant rad. Thanks Will From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Harrison Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 08:00 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Oil and collant radiators Hi! Will, Since my oil never gets to a reasonable temperature anyway ....... ! The general plan is to have the oil cooler set slightly (about 1.5 inches lower that the water cooling Rad. Also have plans to plug the gap below both radiators and the bottom of the cowl. When I have time a friend gave me a thermostat oil controller to elevate the oil temperature but I need to prove the oil temperature sensor before I =9Cmonkey=9D with the system. I have a much modified cooling air intake and also an intake air flap to direct more cold air to the radiator on a delayed departure situation. Frans has a wealth of info. on this subject and he may share some of it with you but we all need to know what Europa and what engine have you ? Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Sent: 28 October 2013 11:51 Subject: Europa-List: Oil and collant radiators The manual shows an arrangement with the oil rad behind the coolant rad. I seem to recall that the optimum cooling was an arrangement with the coolant rad above the oil rad such that the oil rad dint receive already heated air. Is this correct and if so where do I find the pics. Will http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:17 AM PST US From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tony Wickens......... Editor Europa Flyer He's enjoying a well earned break in sunny Florida Bob. If your business is "Europa Flyer" or club related you can contact me on "treasurer@theeuropaclub" and I will make sure Tony gets it. Cheers Nigel On 28/10/2013 13:21, Bob Harrison wrote: > > Does Anyone know if the whereabouts of Tony Wickens ? > > I have for two weeks tried to connect with him but to no avail . > > Regards > > Bob Harrison. G-PTAG > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tony Wickens......... Editor Europa Flyer From: pjeffers@talktalk.net =0AHi Bob,=0AHe is on holiday in Florida. If you leave yo ur message on matronics I am sure he will reply in due c ourse. If it is urgent I can contact him directly as I am not far from where he is staying at this time.=0A=0APete=0A =0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Bob Harrison =0ATo: Europa Matronic Circuit =0ASen t: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 13:35=0ASubject: Europa-List: Tony Wickens.. ....... Editor Europa Flyer =0A=0A=0A=0ADoes Anyone know if the whereabouts of Tony Wickens ?=0AI have for two weeks tried t o connect with him but to no avail .=0ARegards=0ABob Harrison. =========================== =============-= - The Europa-List Email Forum --= Use the Matronics List Fe atures Navigator to browse-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,-= Photoshare, and much much more:-= -= -- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List-=-== =========================== =========================== ====-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS --= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!-=-= -- http://forums.matronics.com-=-= =========================== =========================== =====-= - List Contribu tion Web Site --= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.-= -- http://www.ma tronics.com/contribution-================== =========================== ================0A=0A ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:37 AM PST US From: "Max Cointe (Free)" Subject: RE: Europa-List: more instruments Hi There All As an happy guy I fly part time on a Dyn'aero MCR 4Seats where the flaps are directed by a 4 position switch (0-10-17-35) and part time on our gentle Europa XS where the switch is full analog (wherever you want between 0 to 35). I won't enter in a contest between both option but I'm curious to see (pics and explanation) if any of the members of the community installed a servo allowing to have pre-set flaps position (0-10-full). Have Good Flights, Max Cointe mcointe@free.fr F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours F-PLDJ DynAro MCR 4S Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1600 heures ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: access door hinges From: Robert Borger Jan, Im sorry, but Im a visual person. Do you have a picture you could post? Blue Skies & Tailwinds, Bob Borger On Oct 28, 2013, at 6:49 AM, Jan de Jong wrote: Hi all, This may be an old trick but I newly discovered it. A small access door hinge of 2 x 0.5" one side, 0.25" + 0.5" + 0.25" the other, can be made to come apart easily by putting in a 4 x 0.5" pin instead of a 1 x 2" pin. Moving it 0.25" does it. The abutting hinge pin sections are contained by a split pin or a piece of safety wire through a 1mm hole at each end. The advantage is that only very little room at one end of the hinge is needed. Jan de Jong ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: more instruments From: Robert Borger Max, I can see the distinct advantage of what you describe. Electric version of the manual flap with stops at 10, 20, 30, etc. I used to fly an old C-150 with manual flaps like that and it was really handy. Pull click 1 on downwind, click 2 on base, click 3 on final. Nothing to watch or distract from flying the aircraft. That could be a mod that would be worth the effort to install. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Oct 28, 2013, at 9:08 AM, Max Cointe (Free) wrote: Hi There All As an happy guy I fly part time on a Dyn'aero MCR 4Seats where the flaps are directed by a 4 position switch (0-10-17-35) and part time on our gentle Europa XS where the switch is full analog (wherever you want between 0 to 35). I won't enter in a contest between both option but I'm curious to see (pics and explanation) if any of the members of the community installed a servo allowing to have pre-set flaps position (0-10-full). Have Good Flights, Max Cointe mcointe@free.fr F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours F-PLDJ DynAro MCR 4S Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1600 heures ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:17 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: more instruments I too am interested in a flap switch which works just like we have on most car windows=2C on the driver's side: push once and the window opens fully o r closes from any position=2C i.e. full flap or full retract flaps. Especi ally in an emergency or when workload is high it is irritating having my ri ght hand tied up holding the current toggle switch for quite a long time=2C when it should really be on the throttle. Karl > From: mcointe@free.fr > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Europa-List: more instruments > Date: Mon=2C 28 Oct 2013 15:08:22 +0100 > > > Hi There All > > As an happy guy I fly part time on a Dyn'aero MCR 4Seats where the flaps are > directed by a 4 position switch (0-10=B0-17=B0-35=B0) and part time on ou r gentle > Europa XS where the switch is full analog (wherever you want between 0 to > 35=B0). I won't enter in a contest between both option but I'm curious to see > (pics and explanation) if any of the members of the community installed a > servo allowing to have pre-set flaps position (0-10=B0-full). > Have Good Flights=2C > > Max Cointe > mcointe@free.fr > F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear > Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours > > F-PLDJ Dyn=92A=E9ro MCR 4S > Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1600 heures > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:00 AM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: more instruments Max.......Further to what Bob has said I recall my last solo circuit before my Skill test at Ormond Beach Aviation when I was allocated a Cesna Aerobat and hadn't noticed the flaps were by a switch needing it centred to "off" by hand, when on late final over the student accommodation I became aware I was basically only descending and likely into the accommodation roof. By chance I happened to see the 40deg flap by my left ear in my peripheral view. Prompting me to slam the switch up then causing a flapless landing since I still hadn't grasped there was no detent positions. ! I since prefer to use my own selection by observation of the Europa supplied stick on indicators on the flap visible over my left shoulder. Never have liked bloody Cesna's ever since ! Regards to all..... Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Borger Sent: 28 October 2013 14:33 Subject: Re: Europa-List: more instruments Max, I can see the distinct advantage of what you describe. Electric version of the manual flap with stops at 10, 20, 30, etc. I used to fly an old C-150 with manual flaps like that and it was really handy. Pull click 1 on downwind, click 2 on base, click 3 on final. Nothing to watch or distract from flying the aircraft. That could be a mod that would be worth the effort to install. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Oct 28, 2013, at 9:08 AM, Max Cointe (Free) wrote: Hi There All As an happy guy I fly part time on a Dyn'aero MCR 4Seats where the flaps are directed by a 4 position switch (0-10-17-35) and part time on our gentle Europa XS where the switch is full analog (wherever you want between 0 to 35). I won't enter in a contest between both option but I'm curious to see (pics and explanation) if any of the members of the community installed a servo allowing to have pre-set flaps position (0-10-full). Have Good Flights, Max Cointe mcointe@free.fr F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours F-PLDJ DynAro MCR 4S Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1600 heures ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:50 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Some nice NZ scenery From: duanefamly@aol.com Rob, Great video! Glad you knew where you were going....especially dropping into the clouds while landing. Mike Duane Do Not Archive. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:23 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Tyres for tri gear From: Kevin Challis Hi Does anyone know the best tyres to use on the tri gear. The tyres I put on last time haven't lasted very well. I think they are Condors. Thanks Kevin Challis G ODJG ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:19 AM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tyres for tri gear Kevin. I've used everything from the "el cheapo" to the most expensive Michelins. They all last about the same, as far as tread wear is concerned. I have the 6 ply Air Tracs on, now and they are doing fine... Jeff - Baby Blue On 10/28/2013 11:39 AM, Kevin Challis wrote: > > Hi > > Does anyone know the best tyres to use on the tri gear. The tyres I put on last time haven't lasted very well. I think they are Condors. > > Thanks > > Kevin Challis > G ODJG > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tyres for tri gear From: Kevin Challis Jeff Thank you for the information. Kevin > On 28 Oct 2013, at 18:19, Jeff B wrote: > > > Kevin. I've used everything from the "el cheapo" to the most expensive Michelins. They all last about the same, as far as tread wear is concerned. I have the 6 ply Air Tracs on, now and they are doing fine... > > Jeff - Baby Blue > >> On 10/28/2013 11:39 AM, Kevin Challis wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> Does anyone know the best tyres to use on the tri gear. The tyres I put on last time haven't lasted very well. I think they are Condors. >> >> Thanks >> >> Kevin Challis >> G ODJG > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:03 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: =?windows-1252?Q?AN3_Nut_Torque_Values=85=85=2Eor_any_Torque_Val?= =?windows-1252?Q?ues_depending_on_type_of_Nuts? Gidday, Yesterday I was tightening by hand one of the two AN3 bolts that clamp the flap cross tube to the articulating/hinge arms that are attached in the floor. So, in case there is the slightest movement and this would exacerbate in my flaps I decided to do them up "tight". Guess what, I snapped one, yep snapped. It broke at the top of the shank where the thread started, and did NOT strip the thread as many might have presumed. This got me thinking that normally most bolts are designed to effect a shear load, and not normally a clamping load. Anyway, I know there is counter arguments to all of this, but what matters is the applicable torque loads we use if we torque them using a wrench, and I just stumbled upon a reference I think is important. I found this on an VansForce website, and why it matters is the torque values are NOT for locknuts, which have an inherent friction drag torque value of 14 in-lbs. So, referring to the attached table an AN3 needs 20-25 in-lbw, but in actuality would be more like 34-39 in-lbs. I think this could be easily overlooked, and if the friction drag torque of locknuts is not taken into account, people are under torquing their bolts. Regards Tony Renshaw Sydney Aussie. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:11 PM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Europa-List: =?utf-8?B?UmU6IEV1cm9wYS1MaXN0OiBBTjMgTnV0IFRvcnF1ZSBWYWx1ZXPigKbigKYu?= =?utf-8?B?b3IgYW55IFRvcnF1ZSBWYWx1ZXMgZGVwZW5kaW5nIG9uIHR5cGUgb2YgTnV0?= =?utf-8?B?cw==? Tony=0Ado you still have the bolt? If so put it in a vice and bend it, it s hould bend significantly without=0Asnapping. Hi tensile steel bolts normall y won't bend, that's why we don't use them in aircraft.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Tony Renshaw =0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: Monday, 28 October 2013, 21:58=0ASubject: Europa-List: AN3 Nut Tor que Values.or any Torque Values depending on type of Nuts =0A =0A=0A=0AGidday,=0AYesterday I was tightening by hand one of the two AN 3 bolts that clamp the flap cross tube to the articulating/hinge arms that are attached in the floor. So, in case there is the slightest movement and this would exacerbate in my flaps I decided to do them up "tight". Guess wh at, I snapped one, yep snapped. It broke at the top of the shank where the thread started, and did NOT strip the thread as many might have presumed. T his got me thinking that normally most bolts are designed to effect a shear load, and not normally a clamping load. Anyway, I know there is counter ar guments to all of this, but what matters is the applicable torque loads we use if we torque them using a wrench, and I just stumbled upon a reference I think is important. I found this on an VansForce website, and why it matt ers is the torque values are NOT for locknuts, which have an inherent frict ion drag torque value of 14 in-lbs. So, referring to the attached table an AN3 needs 20-25 in-lbw, but in actuality would be more like 34-39 in-lbs.=C2-=0AI think this could be easily overlooked, and if the friction drag torque of locknut s is not taken into account, people are under torquing their bolts.=C2- =0ARegards=0ATony Renshaw=0ASydney Aussie.=C2- ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Some nice NZ scenery From: Rob Waters Hi Mike, I should clarify that I wasn't flying this plane. It's a commercial Air NZ flight into Queenstown ZQN I think the aircraft is a 737 300 but Tim may know better me if he's around Rob On Tuesday, October 29, 2013, wrote: > Rob, > > Great video! Glad you knew where you were going....especially dropping > into the clouds while landing. > Mike Duane > > Do Not Archive. > > * > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.