Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:05 AM - Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists (Matt Dralle)
1. 12:37 AM - Re: Europa Classic wing blistering (Richard Lamprey)
2. 02:25 AM - Monowheel Hydraulic Dampers (Carl & Dot Pattinson)
3. 02:38 AM - Paint quantities (fireflier)
4. 03:42 AM - Re: Paint quantities (Richard Wheelwright)
5. 03:47 AM - Re: Paint quantities (Donald Cameron)
6. 04:00 AM - Re: Monowheel Hydraulic Dampers (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk)
7. 08:03 AM - Re: Monowheel Hydraulic Dampers (Carl & Dot Pattinson)
8. 09:28 AM - Re: Re: Monowheel Hydraulic Dampers (Bob Harrison)
9. 10:24 AM - Re: Re: Monowheel Hydraulic Dampers (Michael Davies)
10. 10:29 AM - Fuel tank fluorination (Andrew Sarangan)
11. 02:25 PM - Re: Europa Classic wing blistering (GBWFH2010)
12. 06:10 PM - Re: Fuel tank fluorination (Pete)
13. 08:17 PM - Re: Fuel tank fluorination (Andrew Sarangan)
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Subject: | Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists |
Dear Listers,
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Thank you in advance for your generous support!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Europa Classic wing blistering |
There was a thread about this about 8 months ago. I had blistering on the tail
surfaces of my classic, after fitting covers. I understand that if these get
wet, and stay wet, there is every chance of blistering. Glider people apparently
know about this, if storing wings in damp suspension slings, where the blistering
is in the wing surface matching the suspension areas.
Best
Richard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412088#412088
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Subject: | Monowheel Hydraulic Dampers |
Just been on the phone to the factory for a set of damper units for the undercarriage
(current ones are shot).
Apparently current supplier no longer makes these and they have yet to find a replacement.
Is there a third party company (preferably in the UK) that would be able to supply
a replacement.
The builders manual says that the dampers are an optional item but having flown
with these fitted for the last 10 years we are reluctant to remove them - although
in their present condition one might argue we may as well not have them
anyway.
Any ideas/ opinions ???
Carl & Dot Pattinson
G-LABS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412090#412090
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Subject: | Paint quantities |
Hello
I'm wondering if anyone can help me with an estimate on how much paint they used
to finish their aircraft?
I have been in contact with pexa uk with regards to them supplying me with there
C21-100UVR, however the sales rep that I have been dealing with is not familiar
with the europa, and therefore unsure of the quantities I will require to
finish my aircraft. He has therefore asked if I can find out quantities etc so
he can give me a suitable quotation for supply.
I would appreciate any help you can give me with regards to this.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Kind regards
Donald
--------
Fireflier
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412091#412091
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Subject: | Re: Paint quantities |
Donald,=0A- - -5lts Primer=0A- - -5lts Topcoat=0A- - -5lt
s Hardener=0A- - -5lts Thinners (Do not make the paint too thin)=0A
=0A- - - - If your painter is really good at his job, you should ha
ve some paint left for the hanger rash later in life=0A-=0A====
=================0A=0ARichard Wheelwright
=0A========================
====================
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Subject: | Re: Paint quantities |
Hi Richard
Many thanks for your reply, much appreciated.
Kind regards
Donald
Sent from my iPhone
On 4 Nov 2013, at 11:42, Richard Wheelwright <rpwheelwright@yahoo.co.uk> wro
te:
> Donald,
> 5lts Primer
> 5lts Topcoat
> 5lts Hardener
> 5lts Thinners (Do not make the paint too thin)
>
> If your painter is really good at his job, you should have some pa
int left for the hanger rash later in life
>
> =========================
===================
> Richard Wheelwright
> ===================
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Monowheel Hydraulic Dampers |
Carl,
I have just spoken with the manufacturer who confirms that they stopped
production of these units some time back and have no plans to produce
more. I did inquired about re-commissioning a batch to supply the
existing fleet (all of which are aging and will need these at some
point) but was assured that they have no plans re-start production. The
main reason for getting out of the market was the potential litigation
issues associated with "aviation", something that was not such an issue
twenty years ago when the first batches were produced.
If you succeed in sourcing an alternative shock manufacturer, It might
pay you to take an old unit to them and tell them it came off some
"machinery" as the moment the word "Aviation" is mentioned, the door
will close.
Good luck and keep us posted - I think a lot of owners of aging monos
will be watching this with keen interest.
Nigel
On 04/11/2013 10:24, Carl & Dot Pattinson wrote:
>
> Just been on the phone to the factory for a set of damper units for the undercarriage
(current ones are shot).
>
> Apparently current supplier no longer makes these and they have yet to find a
replacement.
>
> Is there a third party company (preferably in the UK) that would be able to supply
a replacement.
>
> The builders manual says that the dampers are an optional item but having flown
with these fitted for the last 10 years we are reluctant to remove them - although
in their present condition one might argue we may as well not have them
anyway.
>
> Any ideas/ opinions ???
>
> Carl & Dot Pattinson
> G-LABS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412090#412090
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Monowheel Hydraulic Dampers |
That doesen't look too promising.
I guess things will have to stay as they are for the time being. I was hoping to
replace the dampers when I replaced the oilite bearings this week.
I will take the dimensions when I have the block out and keep a look out for something
suitable.
I did take a quick look on Ebay and found a damper which appeared to have similar
dimensions (from memory).
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suspa-Softline-Hydraulic-Damper-HD28-for-Caravan-Engine-Stearing-/360457096748?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item53eceace2c
I dont suppose anybody has a drawing of the damper with the dimensions ?
I guess it will be a matter of trial and error, not to mention getting LAA approval.
If I have any luck, I will let you know.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412101#412101
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Subject: | Re: Monowheel Hydraulic Dampers |
Hi! Carl,
On the contrary, your comment about the LAA may just be relevant since in my
opinion they should be able to bring pressure on the new owners (Swift
Aviation) of the Europa Company to research and secure suitable replacement
parts.
I have sold my redundant Mono Suspension parts since G-PTAG will now be
permanently fitted out as a trike , otherwise I would have volunteered you
an unused set. But of course you could do a trike conversion on your
aircraft !
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl & Dot
Pattinson
Sent: 04 November 2013 16:03
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Monowheel Hydraulic Dampers
--> <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
That doesen't look too promising.
I guess things will have to stay as they are for the time being. I was
hoping to replace the dampers when I replaced the oilite bearings this week.
I will take the dimensions when I have the block out and keep a look out for
something suitable.
I did take a quick look on Ebay and found a damper which appeared to have
similar dimensions (from memory).
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suspa-Softline-Hydraulic-Damper-HD28-for-Caravan-E
ngine-Stearing-/360457096748?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5
3eceace2c
I dont suppose anybody has a drawing of the damper with the dimensions ?
I guess it will be a matter of trial and error, not to mention getting LAA
approval.
If I have any luck, I will let you know.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412101#412101
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Subject: | Re: Monowheel Hydraulic Dampers |
Hi Carl
I have a unused pair of dampers here in the UK. if you are interested pm me
for any details to check they the correct ones.
Mike Davies G-MLXP (taildragger)
On Nov 4, 2013 4:06 PM, "Carl & Dot Pattinson" <
carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> That doesen't look too promising.
>
> I guess things will have to stay as they are for the time being. I was
> hoping to replace the dampers when I replaced the oilite bearings this week.
>
> I will take the dimensions when I have the block out and keep a look out
> for something suitable.
>
> I did take a quick look on Ebay and found a damper which appeared to have
> similar dimensions (from memory).
>
>
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suspa-Softline-Hydraulic-Damper-HD28-for-Caravan-Engine-Stearing-/360457096748?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item53eceace2c
>
> I dont suppose anybody has a drawing of the damper with the dimensions ?
>
> I guess it will be a matter of trial and error, not to mention getting LAA
> approval.
>
> If I have any luck, I will let you know.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412101#412101
>
>
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Subject: | Fuel tank fluorination |
This is for builders in the U.S or Canada who have not bonded their
tanks yet. I am planning on sending my tank for additional
fluorination treatment prior to install. The cost is a mere $35/tank,
but the minimum charge is $425, so I am looking for anyone interested
in joining in the fun.
Although the newer Europa tanks are supposedly fluorinated, the
consensus seems to be that they are not done to the same level as
automotive tanks. There have been a number of scary stories and
pictures of swelling/splitting tanks and leaks, so the hope is that
one could avoid this catastrophe by spending the extra time and money
before the install.
The company is http://inhanceproducts.com/ (formerly fluoroseal). You
can look it up if you like.
Anyone interested please contact me. The idea is, you would clean and
bag the tank and ship it to me. I will drive them over to the vendor
in Columbus, OH, and then ship them back to you when they are done.
Obviously, I am not providing any guarantees of the process or any
assurances that it will even work. The vendor also says that if the
tank is not spotlessly clean, it can destroy the whole tank., so there
is some risks as well.
On the other hand, I would also appreciate hearing from anyone who has
done fluorination on their tanks, and have any thoughts on this
process.
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Subject: | Re: Europa Classic wing blistering |
Thanks to all for your replies on this topic and it is interesting to know I am
not alone! However, I was really hoping for guidance regarding how to rectify
the problem as I want to be sure any work I do does not effect the structural
integrity of the wing.
Regards
--------
Gordon Grant
G-BWFH
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412117#412117
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Subject: | Re: Fuel tank fluorination |
I had used the same company to fluorinate my circa 2001 tank to the highest "automotive
level", and it did indeed come back with a much different "frosty" finish.
So although I cannot attest to its effectiveness as it still :-( does
not have fuel in it, the treatment surely did change the surface texture, so
it must have penetrated more than the reported factory treatment. This is the
same company that treats automotive fuel tanks to meet evaporative emissions
standards, as well as at lower levels for items such as shampoo bottles etc.
I did carefully clean my tank and cobra with naphtha, and wrapped and sealed them
in poly inside a shipping crate to keep them clean and as a result I did not
have any "burning" issues from the treatment. I followed the company's advise
and made *all* finish cuts to the openings prior to treatment. To not do so
(as per the factory tanks) negates the surface treatment as the fuel migrates
into the material via the untreated cuts and subsequently swells and suffers
long term embrittlement. I had gone it alone at the time as I could not find
any other takers - hopefully Andrew will have better luck. I figured the cost
is well worth the high likelihood that I will avoid the tank swelling and cracking
others have had over the long term, with the resultant hacking in of a replacement
down the road.
I am contemplating piggy-backing on this order to treat a small LDPE motorcycle
fuel tank I had purchased, but need to first verify with that mfg if this tank's
"x-linked PE" is compatible. They did not treat their tanks as they do not
need to meet (off road) emissions std's, but experience has shown me that these
tanks do smell up a garage.
Cheers and blue skies,
Pete
A239 - still a pile of parts.
> On Nov 4, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> This is for builders in the U.S or Canada who have not bonded their
> tanks yet. I am planning on sending my tank for additional
> fluorination treatment prior to install. The cost is a mere $35/tank,
> but the minimum charge is $425, so I am looking for anyone interested
> in joining in the fun.
>
> Although the newer Europa tanks are supposedly fluorinated, the
> consensus seems to be that they are not done to the same level as
> automotive tanks. There have been a number of scary stories and
> pictures of swelling/splitting tanks and leaks, so the hope is that
> one could avoid this catastrophe by spending the extra time and money
> before the install.
>
> The company is http://inhanceproducts.com/ (formerly fluoroseal). You
> can look it up if you like.
>
> Anyone interested please contact me. The idea is, you would clean and
> bag the tank and ship it to me. I will drive them over to the vendor
> in Columbus, OH, and then ship them back to you when they are done.
> Obviously, I am not providing any guarantees of the process or any
> assurances that it will even work. The vendor also says that if the
> tank is not spotlessly clean, it can destroy the whole tank., so there
> is some risks as well.
>
> On the other hand, I would also appreciate hearing from anyone who has
> done fluorination on their tanks, and have any thoughts on this
> process.
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Fuel tank fluorination |
Looking through the email archives, there seem to be some
misunderstanding on what the tank is made of. It is polyethylene (PE).
It is definitely not PTFE (Teflon) or nylon as some had suggested. I
don't know why polyethylene was chosen, but my guess is it is the
rotomolding process itself. The majority of rotomolding is done with
polyethylene so that may have been the most cost-effective choice.
Weather it is LDPE (Low density polyethylene) or HDPE, neither one is
great with gasoline. Assuming it is LDPE, the attached chart lists it
as "Limited Compatibility" at 20C and "Not Satisfactory" at 60C.
Granted, liquids don't heat up quickly, but over a full hot summer
week, 40C may not be unrealistic. It would be interesting to examine
if the tank failures have come mostly from warmer climates.
There have also been discussions about inadequate support of the tank
that could lead to tank failures. This is true, but polyethylene
should only yield under stress, not crack. Cracking is more indicative
of a brittle material. My tank has been sitting on the shelf for over
12 years and when I was drilling out the bosses this week, it felt
waxy and ductile, not hard and brittle. So it is not the age of the
tank that makes it brittle. It is the exposure to gasoline. All of
this points to the importance of a good barrier coating, and probably
even more important in hot climates.
I was also told by Fluoroseal that automotive level coating is
generally not done in Europe. Not knowing the level of coating is the
main reason I am pursuing a second coating on my tank.
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
> I had used the same company to fluorinate my circa 2001 tank to the highe
st "automotive level", and it did indeed come back with a much different "
frosty" finish. So although I cannot attest to its effectiveness as it stil
l :-( does not have fuel in it, the treatment surely did change the surfa
ce texture, so it must have penetrated more than the reported factory treat
ment. This is the same company that treats automotive fuel tanks to meet ev
aporative emissions standards, as well as at lower levels for items such a
s shampoo bottles etc. I did carefully clean my tank and cobra with naphth
a, and wrapped and sealed them in poly inside a shipping crate to keep them
clean and as a result I did not have any "burning" issues from the treatme
nt. I followed the company's advise and made *all* finish cuts to the open
ings prior to treatment. To not do so (as per the factory tanks) negates th
e surface treatment as the fuel migrates into the material via the untreate
d cuts and subse!
> quently swells and suffers long term embrittlement. I had gone it alone
at the time as I could not find any other takers - hopefully Andrew will h
ave better luck. I figured the cost is well worth the high likelihood that
I will avoid the tank swelling and cracking others have had over the long t
erm, with the resultant hacking in of a replacement down the road.
>
> I am contemplating piggy-backing on this order to treat a small LDPE moto
rcycle fuel tank I had purchased, but need to first verify with that mfg if
this tank's "x-linked PE" is compatible. They did not treat their tanks a
s they do not need to meet (off road) emissions std's, but experience has s
hown me that these tanks do smell up a garage.
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