---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/05/13: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:39 AM - Re: Fuel tank fluorination (Peter Zutrauen) 2. 03:18 PM - Old Fashioned Saturday at the Airport (3EV) Evansville, IN (Steve Eberhart) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:51 AM PST US From: Peter Zutrauen Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel tank fluorination FWIW, just to chime in again, I'd highly recommend that any builders who either have not yet installed their tank, or have a replacement tank going into a repair job should take advantage of this treatment opportunity. It is a pity that the factory did not treat adequately to be compatible with the nasty North American Mogas. Pity that only a small percentage of the North American builders are on this list, as I suspect there are many an off-line builder who would go for the treatment. Cheers and blue skies, Pete A239 - still a pile of parts :-( On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:16 PM, Andrew Sarangan wrote: > Looking through the email archives, there seem to be some > misunderstanding on what the tank is made of. It is polyethylene (PE). > It is definitely not PTFE (Teflon) or nylon as some had suggested. I > don't know why polyethylene was chosen, but my guess is it is the > rotomolding process itself. The majority of rotomolding is done with > polyethylene so that may have been the most cost-effective choice. > > Weather it is LDPE (Low density polyethylene) or HDPE, neither one is > great with gasoline. Assuming it is LDPE, the attached chart lists it > as "Limited Compatibility" at 20C and "Not Satisfactory" at 60C. > Granted, liquids don't heat up quickly, but over a full hot summer > week, 40C may not be unrealistic. It would be interesting to examine > if the tank failures have come mostly from warmer climates. > > There have also been discussions about inadequate support of the tank > that could lead to tank failures. This is true, but polyethylene > should only yield under stress, not crack. Cracking is more indicative > of a brittle material. My tank has been sitting on the shelf for over > 12 years and when I was drilling out the bosses this week, it felt > waxy and ductile, not hard and brittle. So it is not the age of the > tank that makes it brittle. It is the exposure to gasoline. All of > this points to the importance of a good barrier coating, and probably > even more important in hot climates. > > I was also told by Fluoroseal that automotive level coating is > generally not done in Europe. Not knowing the level of coating is the > main reason I am pursuing a second coating on my tank. > > > On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Pete wrote: > > I had used the same company to fluorinate my circa 2001 tank to the > highest "automotive level", and it did indeed come back with a much > different "frosty" finish. So although I cannot attest to its effectiveness > as it still :-( does not have fuel in it, the treatment surely did change > the surface texture, so it must have penetrated more than the reported > factory treatment. This is the same company that treats automotive fuel > tanks to meet evaporative emissions standards, as well as at lower levels > for items such as shampoo bottles etc. I did carefully clean my tank and > cobra with naphtha, and wrapped and sealed them in poly inside a shipping > crate to keep them clean and as a result I did not have any "burning" > issues from the treatment. I followed the company's advise and made *all* > finish cuts to the openings prior to treatment. To not do so (as per the > factory tanks) negates the surface treatment as the fuel migrates into the > material via the untreated cuts and subse! > > quently swells and suffers long term embrittlement. I had gone it > alone at the time as I could not find any other takers - hopefully Andrew > will have better luck. I figured the cost is well worth the high likelihood > that I will avoid the tank swelling and cracking others have had over the > long term, with the resultant hacking in of a replacement down the road. > > > > I am contemplating piggy-backing on this order to treat a small LDPE > motorcycle fuel tank I had purchased, but need to first verify with that > mfg if this tank's "x-linked PE" is compatible. They did not treat their > tanks as they do not need to meet (off road) emissions std's, but > experience has shown me that these tanks do smell up a garage. > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:18:42 PM PST US From: Steve Eberhart Subject: Europa-List: Old Fashioned Saturday at the Airport (3EV) Evansville, IN Everyone from Skylane (3EV), Hepler (43IN), Boonville (I91), Evansville (EVV) and any where else "within the sound of my voice" is invited to come and join us for an *aviator and family friendly Old Fashioned Saturday at the Airport * Where: Skylane 3EV if you are flying Skylane on Allens Lane if you are driving When: Saturday November 9th, 2013 1:00 PM to 9:00 PM Everything is going to be centered around the Club House at Skylane - 3EV. Current plans are to have an "Old Fashioned "Afternoon at the Airport" starting at 1:00 PM. Everyone with airplanes are encouraged to fly-in. If you are flying in from out of town please RSVP tosteve@skyterrier.net We will be eating at 5:00 PM with hotdogs, chips and chili provided by Skylane and EAA Chapter 21. Everyone is encouraged to bring either a snack item for the afternoon or something that goes with hotdogs and chili for the meal. The popular local band "The Dogtown Three"https://www.facebook.com/DogTown3will be playing from 6:00 to 9:00 PM. Hopefully, weather will let us have the band setup outside of the club house. Weather is forecast to be "Saturday...Mostly clear. Highs in the upper 50s. Lows in the upper 30s". We do have somewhat of a logistics problem with planes flying in and our activities, eating and the band going on into the night. We will have tie-down space for planes staying over night and camping space for those wanting to camp out. Greg also mentioned that he might be able to get discount hotel rates for anyone wanting an upgrade on the camping accommodations. 100LL is still $5.00 a gallon on the field. Steve Eberhart 812-422-4525 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.