Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:12 AM - Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published in December! (Matt Dralle)
1. 06:34 AM - Re: Belleville Washer (h&jeuropa)
2. 12:48 PM - Re: XS Fuel Tank (bill)
Message 0
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published |
in December!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post a
list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation
for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
USA
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Belleville Washer |
Dave,
We think you may not need a hard washer. When we got our glider wings there was
no washer in the kit. We asked Andy Draper about it. As we recall (sorry we
can't seem to locate the message), Andy said the washer was necessary if there
was a Spar Cup (SO3) used since the cup is not hardened and the pip pin balls
need to seat against a hardened surface.
The short wing setup uses a spar cup bonded to the port spar that the tip of the
stbd spar goes into. In this case a hardened washer must be bonded to the spar
cup for the port pip pin.
The MG wings uses spar bushings that the builder installs and the tip bushings
that are installed at the factory are the same type. These bushings have a larger
diameter shoulder and do not fit the spar cup. It is not an issue at all
now since Mod 78 will not allow the use of SO3 spar cups. So the port pip pin
balls will contact the bushing at the tip of the stbd spar. The bushing is
hardened so no washer is required.
We cut the shoulder off two of our original bushings that we had removed from the
spars and used them to use to fill the tip hole in the spar when attaching
the Mod 78 mold. Cutting the bushings used up a couple of Dremel cut off wheels.
They are hard!!
Hope this helps.
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413145#413145
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: XS Fuel Tank |
Thank you for all of this info Steve, it will be a big help as I
reconstruct mine. My current plan is pretty much in line with what you
have done so far. At the end I should come out of this with a more
robust tank with a greater volume and a better CofG that I get now using
the Europa long rage axillary tank that sits in the baggage bay. Will
let you know how I get on.
Regards
Sue and Bill Sisley
On 14/11/2013 5:19 p.m., hagargs wrote:
>
> --
>
> Bill:
>
> I had been in the same tank situation as you. However the issue
> occurred at about 20 hours just as all the flight testing had been
> completed. The plane was down for maintenance and I drained the
> gas out of the tank as it was getting stale. Upon filling some
> time later gasoline started coming out of the plane almost as fast
> as it was being put in. Having the tank dry caused it to shrink
> back from its fuel expanded shape . The tank pulled away from one
> of the fiberglass mounts causing a good sized tear.
>
> I was pretty soured at the situation as the tank is really the
> first thing put into the cockpit . After doing some research I had
> found out there are kit car companies out there that offer
> rotationally molded polyethelyne tanks. The sell them with one
> caveat. They will absolutely not warrantee them if they are
> fiberglassed into the car as instructed to in the Europa. My
> soured disposition turned to one of disgust. That along with
> changed priorities and financial situation has led to the plane
> being grounded for I dont know how many years. The serial # is
> 143 so count from there. She gets pushed out in the driveway about
> every 10 weeks or so and the 914 is run for an hour cycling up and
> down at different RPM levels to prevent engine atrophy.
>
> However I did spend some time at getting a new tank designed for
> aluminum construction and have a few thoughts, suggestions and
> many photos to provide. I am a mechanical engineer in an
> industrial facility and am presented with the opportunity to
> perform many design and repair/rework efforts that are similar to
> this .
>
> The first issue is the fact that the tank does not come out whole
> if you want to leave the joggles that form your door window sills
> in place. I did not want to mess with these as they perform a
> major stiffening function in the fuselage top. The tank was cut up
> to get it out after taking the backrest top off. I do have a
> replacement polyethylene tank and attempted to place it in after
> making some spreader bars to perhaps push the fuselage out to
> allow the tank to drop back in. This was not successful as the it
> was putting too much stress on the structure for my liking. So it
> was on with designing an aluminum tank as was my original plan.
>
> Now if you have some time to spend and are willing to look at
> things in a different way I believe you can come up with something
> much better than the original design. I had seen the aluminum tank
> design and how it closely approximates the original. I was going
> to approach it the same way. I faced some trepidation seeing all
> the welding and pockets and curves in the front section of the
> tank to clear the aileron mechanism spar etc and still keep an
> acceptable volume in the tank.
>
> The original tank is 41 wide, the replacement unit would have to
> be about 2.5 narrower in order to make it an easy
> re-installation. This is conservative .When ever I design one
> thing to fit in another and one of the pieces is a big project as
> far as time an money goes I have never been sorry in 20 years by
> making it fit loose instead of tight. Its a lot easier to take up
> space than it is to make new space. However I would be losing
> volume . I thought the tank was too small to begin with. (I did
> have the extended range tank, that has a new home in Erich
> Trombleys bird). However with the top of the back rest off and
> looking at the stock tank , it became readily apparent that there
> was an opportunity to be had. The largest horizontal cross section
> of the tank is at the top. This will give the greatest incremental
> increase in fuel capacity for each incremental increase in height.
> Using a conservative measurement of 38 span wise and 11 wide you
> get about 1.75 gallons for each inch in height. There are also
> other opportunities to be had.
>
> Now with this thought in mind I saw that the complications with
> forming the aluminum and shaping the replacement like the original
> with tight clearances down low are slowly fading away. Design for
> excess clearance in order to make mounting and access for
> maintenance easier and make up the lost volume up high. The CG
> will also favor the front (the good direction). Without the
> complicated shapes the whole tank may be able to be made with 5 to
> 7 larger pieces with less welding required (see photos with
> patterns). My tank pattern has much more clearance around the spar
> and aileron bell cranks. The central tunnel is much larger. You
> can get your hands inside from the access panels. I had thought
> about having all the fuel fittings come out in the tunnel pointing
> in to the center instead of coming out the front of the tank to
> make re plumbing it easier.
>
> The tank comes up in height several inches, but also it is built
> up to form the mounting surface for the back rest pads as shown.
> The space between the 2 rests has been omitted and it is one
> continuous cross section from left to right. With this tank I
> would also get rid of the fuel filler cobra. Note the cap on the
> aluminum fuel cell in the photos. A cap like this would go on the
> right side of the right head rest area just inside the door. You
> open the door to refuel. This is what is done when the extended
> range tank is filled anyway. The large opening makes filling easy
> and does not present the venting issues with the cobra. My rough
> calculations give the tank about 3~4 gals greater fuel capacity
> than original.
>
> You will also be able to customize your reserve side to your
> liking as you will need to put a baffle in for stiffening. A
> suggestion would be to make the baffle all the way to the top and
> add perforations on the top side to dampen fuel sloshing from left
> to right when banking. When re-plumbing the line to the reserve
> side adding a T to it and going back to the primary side will
> allow you to use the fuel left in the main when you switched to
> the reserve. You will have to put a check valve in to keep from
> drawing on the reserve during normal operation.
>
> Of course you need to design in all the fittings. vents, return ,
> fuel gauge etc. Put in a ball valve for draining and an extra
> fitting for aux fuel hook up.
>
> Caveats:
>
> I have not built up the tank , but use these thoughts and photos
> as a guide of sorts to start the effort. This is how I would do
> it. Kim Prout inspected my original build and had no qualms with
> my workmanship and techniques. The plane flew hands off and was
> very stable. At this time there are no plans to ever fly it again.
> I may decide to part it out when I get tired of pushing it in and
> out of the garage.
>
> It looks like I can only attach 3 photos at a time so I will send
> additional reply submissions
>
> Steve Hagar
>
> A143
>
> Mesa, AZ
>
> ---Original Message-----
> From: bill
> Sent: Nov 11, 2013 3:43 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS Fuel Tank
>
> Thank you Nigel,
>
> Having got the top off now I can see that the leak is at the shelf on
> the front of the tank where it sits on the mount. It appears that the
> fibreglass had bonded to the tank and with movement caused a fracture
> due to the stress. Having looked at the tank now which is very
> deformed
> and reducing capacity, I am sure a "metal" one will be much superior.
> Fortunately there are some very good craftsman around here so
> fabrication will not be a problem. Not sure we will get to the same
> volume as you have but will certainly look for more than I have now.
> Will send some pic,s when all done.
>
> Regards
>
> Sue and Bill Sisley
> On 12/11/2013 8:55 a.m., nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk wrote:
> > Hello Bill,
> >
> > I'm a bit late getting back on this one but as others have said, I
> > built a tank out of 5251 quarter-hard magnesium alloy.
> > It weighs 7850 grams and has a capacity of 110 litres.
> > I incorporated internal baffles, and breathers with proper AN
> fittings
> > to accommodate alloy pipework. It is also fitted with a full length
> > capacitive probe and four solid-state optical fuel level sensors.
> > http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=28719
> >
> > The only advice I would offer is: allow yourself a long time to
> make and perfect your cardboard templates - the fuselage is partly
> conical in section so the development will be an interesting
> shape. Choose a welder based on his ability to weld alloy and
> don't fall into the trap I did of restricting yourself to a CAA
> approved welder whose self-belief exceeded his ability!
> >
> > Nigel
> >
> >
> > On 08/11/2013 21:37, bill wrote:
> >>
> >> After 1100hrs I have suffered a failed fuel tank on my XS Mono.
> Not
> >> sure exactly where the fault is other than it is high up on the
> tank.
> >> Will know more when I get it out.
> >>
> >> My question to the forum is, has anyone tried fabricating a metal
> >> (aluminium) tank rather than using the Polyethylene plastic one as
> >> supplied with the kit. If so, were you able to obtain the same
> volume
> >> and any other advice you may be able to offer.
> >>
> >> Many thanks
> >> XS Mono
> >> Kit 456
> >> 914 and Airmaster
> >> 1100hrs
> >>
> >>
> >> Sue and Bill Sisley
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > *
> >
> > *
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|