---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/21/13: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:58 AM - Re: long wing spin test results? (alan.twigg775@gmail.com) 2. 01:15 AM - Re: long wing spin test results? (Alan Twigg) 3. 02:06 AM - Re: long wing spin test results? (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 4. 04:09 AM - Re: XS Fuel Tank (Frans Veldman) 5. 07:27 AM - unusable fuel () 6. 07:38 AM - If it ain't broke, don't fix it (djaflyact) 7. 07:54 AM - Re: If it ain't broke, don't fix it (Christoph Both) 8. 09:47 AM - If is broke, so just fix it (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 9. 02:27 PM - Re: Wing leveller (richard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:58:57 AM PST US From: alan.twigg775@gmail.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: long wing spin test results? I think I got the fuselage a bit wrong. Glueing bushes into modified motor glider wing spars in a cold Bicester hang ar. Regards Alan Twigg Sent from my iPhone > On 20 Nov 2013, at 16:21, Iancook wrote: > > LAA confirmed with me today they are now satisfied with results and are do ing the necessary paperwork to issue the PERMIT TO FLY . > > Ian > G-CBHI > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 20 Nov 2013, at 16:15, Peter Zutrauen wrote: >> >> Has anyone heard of any updates since: >> >> "Europa Motor Glider wing awaiting approval >> We have submitted the results of the Motorglider spin testing to the LAA a nd we are currently discussing this with them. We are hopeful of a resolutio n and an approval in the not too distant future." >> >> I'm sure folks would like to see what the spin tests and their results we re. >> >> Cheers and thx, >> >> Pete A239 > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:15:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: long wing spin test results? From: Alan Twigg I think I got my glider a bit wrong? Bonding bushes into modified Motorglider Wing Spar. Looking forward to flying them On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Iancook wrote: > LAA confirmed with me today they are now satisfied with results and are > doing the necessary paperwork to issue the PERMIT TO FLY . > > Ian > G-CBHI > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 20 Nov 2013, at 16:15, Peter Zutrauen wrote: > > Has anyone heard of any updates since: > > "Europa Motor Glider wing awaiting approval > > We have submitted the results of the Motorglider spin testing to the LAA > and we are currently discussing this with them. We are hopeful of a > resolution and an approval in the not too distant future." > > I'm sure folks would like to see what the spin tests and their results > were. > > Cheers and thx, > > Pete A239 > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:06:19 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: long wing spin test results? That looks like a serious built in headwind! {{;-)=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_ _______________________________=0A From: Alan Twigg =0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" =0ASent: T hursday, 21 November 2013, 9:14=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: long wing spin test results?=0A =0A=0A=0AI think I got my glider a bit wrong? =0ABonding b ushes into modified Motorglider Wing Spar.=0A=0ALooking forward to flying t hem=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Iancook wrote:=0A=0ALAA confirmed with me today they are now satisfied with results and are doing the necessary paperwork to issue the PERMIT TO FLY . =0A>=0A>=0A>Ian=0A>G-CBHI=0A>=0A>Sent from my iPhone=0A>=0A>On 20 Nov 2013, at 16:15, Peter Zutrauen wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>Has anyo ne heard of any updates since:=0A>>=0A>>"Europa Motor Glider wing awaiting approval =0A>>We have submitted the results of the Motorglider spin testing to the =0ALAA and we are currently discussing this with them. We are hopef ul of a =0Aresolution and an approval in the not too distant future."=0A>>I 'm sure folks would like to see what the spin tests and their results were. =0A>>Cheers and thx,=0A>>Pete A239=0A>>=0A>3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:09:23 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: XS Fuel Tank On 11/08/2013 10:37 PM, bill wrote: > My question to the forum is, has anyone tried fabricating a metal > (aluminium) tank rather than using the Polyethylene plastic one as > supplied with the kit. Why would you do that? Metal tanks can also leak. There are a few things to consider: 1) Metal is heavier. 2) The plastic tank offers great safety in a moderate crash. A metal fuel tank will likely rupture catastrophycally, releasing its full capacity at once in your lap or under your seat. Metal will spark when it scratches the surface (which will happen if you loose the gear during the mishap) igniting the fuel instantly. Metal fuel tanks are sort of ok in the wing, but I would never ever want one just behind my back, with its bottom just above the belly of the airplane. 3) A metal tank will cause much more water in the fuel. Moisture in the air will settle against the cold metal walls of the fuel tank and eventual run down and cause a pool of water at the bottom of the tank. I think a good quality plastic tank is preferable in our situation. Too bad that some of the supplied tanks were of inferior quality, but it doesn't have to be like that. Frans ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:59 AM PST US From: Subject: Europa-List: unusable fuel Good day, My thanks to David, Christoph and Bob for the advice on the topic above. I appreciate the time taken to reply with useful info - and it confirms my suspicions that I have to extricate C-FFGG from the hangar in the cold, slope it into the angle required to simulate the moment my engine quits, and divine the fuel left in both tanks. I don't know if there's enough time between rain/snow showers to accomplish this, but it must be done. My fellow hangarites will be thrilled. Again many thanks Ferg P.S: Congrats to Christoph, now well past his mandatory 25 hours. He can't possibly challenge me for longest build now. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:22 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: If it ain't broke, don't fix it From: "djaflyact" Well, mod 78 progresses. I keep hearing the phrase "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" over and over in my head. The spars are complete except for post cure and the setting of the bushings in the wing. It says to open the holes up to 7/8 inch for the bushes. They are a fairly tight fit. I think there should be some slop in there to allow resetting of the dihedral. The spar is as thin as I could make it. Yesterday was the trial fit of the left wing. Nothing has changed except for the spar dimensions, so it should go right in. It does..except for the last 1/8 inch. Frustrating. I've replaced the top air brake bracket screws with flush and it looks like the added BID that is in the upper corner of the tunnel has some high points that are contacting the spar and preventing the aft pin on the fuselage side from going all the way in, due to the spar not being quite all the way forward. I hope so, because I don't know what else it could be. The difficulty is that it is difficult to see what is going on in the tunnel and the wing root fairings prevent seeing what is going on with the sockets - especially the forward one. Not looking forward to reaching in there and sanding and sanding and sanding. I'll attach pictures. Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. I do have an oven setup for post cure, however. Using foam panels and a thermostatically controlled heater, I am able to maintain a range of 120 to 125F. That is measured by a meat thermometer at spar level in the box. It can also ramp up the temperature like prescribed. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Dave A227 Mini U2 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413647#413647 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/post_cure_setup_160.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/socket_not_in_645.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/hump_192.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:47 AM PST US From: Christoph Both Subject: Re: Europa-List: If it ain't broke, don't fix it Inserting a very small web cam located inside the wing root filet might give a good view upon insertion what is going on? Christoph Both Wolfville, Canada #223 Flying On 13-11-21 11:37 AM, "djaflyact" wrote: > >Well, mod 78 progresses. I keep hearing the phrase "if it ain't broke, >don't fix it" over and over in my head. The spars are complete except for >post cure and the setting of the bushings in the wing. It says to open >the holes up to 7/8 inch for the bushes. They are a fairly tight fit. I >think there should be some slop in there to allow resetting of the >dihedral. > >The spar is as thin as I could make it. Yesterday was the trial fit of >the left wing. Nothing has changed except for the spar dimensions, so it >should go right in. It does..except for the last 1/8 inch. >Frustrating. > >I've replaced the top air brake bracket screws with flush and it looks >like the added BID that is in the upper corner of the tunnel has some >high points that are contacting the spar and preventing the aft pin on >the fuselage side from going all the way in, due to the spar not being >quite all the way forward. I hope so, because I don't know what else it >could be. The difficulty is that it is difficult to see what is going on >in the tunnel and the wing root fairings prevent seeing what is going on >with the sockets - especially the forward one. Not looking forward to >reaching in there and sanding and sanding and sanding. > >I'll attach pictures. Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. > >I do have an oven setup for post cure, however. Using foam panels and a >thermostatically controlled heater, I am able to maintain a range of 120 >to 125F. That is measured by a meat thermometer at spar level in the box. >It can also ramp up the temperature like prescribed. > >If it ain't broke, don't fix it! > >Dave A227 >Mini U2 > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=413647#413647 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/post_cure_setup_160.jpg >http://forums.matronics.com//files/socket_not_in_645.jpg >http://forums.matronics.com//files/hump_192.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:26 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: If is broke, so just fix it From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Dave I have studied how I am going to deal with Mod 78. I have short wings rigged already. First thing I am going to do is temporary bond in the tip spar bushings, then drill 1/2" holes for the other bushings. If dihedral is less than 2.4 degrees, so be it, OK down to 2.2 degrees if need be. I am very close on the top inboard. I will then make sure I have at least 1/16" clear on the top inboard, prefer at least 1/8" though. If I really needed to, I think I could perhaps slightly move the tip bushing location. Then I am going to fabricate several perfectly shaped spars out of plywood adjusted so they fit my bird perfectly including the position for spar bushings. They can be installed in fuse and checked for fit. This will turn into my mold. The mold supplied from Europa, well....spar hole locations...dimensions of mold...finish of mold...enough said. Getting back you your dilemma, perhaps you can create a perfect example of your spar and install it in your bird and see what's happening? You don't have the ability to easily move your lift pins or lift pin sockets, but it is not beyond possible. You may be able you use wood from your mold adding Bondo or other fill to replicate your spar. Try just front of port spar first, if you need more resolution then make it full width (spacer between the two). In your case, it may be necessary to replicate the front and rear lift pins on the spar, then remove and measure to what your wing in (wood or metal with pins in position and get stuck to your replicated spar. Just to make sure, could it be as easy as you installed the new style lift pin and the shoulder is hitting the front lift pin socket? I think the intention is for the shoulder to make sure the swivel bushing stays in place if it ever got debonded? The straight pin with bonded spacer could do the same thing? Perhaps some clay to mold around areas you think are contacting? Perhaps you can remove front lift pin all together and see if you can get things to fit? The front lift pin socket may be the easiest of all to move position? If still can't fit, remove rear lift pin and put front back in? Report back what you find. Best of luck. Ron Parigoris Doing battle with flap drive to make my XS Mono work with both short and long wings. At 80% feeling of success at moment. Waiting for an order of ball joint swivel bearings to come in to do actual testing on rear push cable mount. If I get a 90% feeling of success after testing, going to order cable. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:27:33 PM PST US From: "richard" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing leveller Hi Kevin I think you may have misunderstood me, is the head unit like an attitude indicator with an artificial horizon display if so, could you fly in cloud using it? Regards Richard From: Kelvin Cobb Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:12 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing leveller Hello Richard, I've not fitted the navaid wing levelling auto pilot yet. The head unit was already fitted when I purchased my plane, but when I tried to get a servo, I ended up buying a complete secondhand system, that's why I have a spare instrument. Sorry I can't answer your question..... Kelvin Sent from my iPad On 20 Nov 2013, at 12:14, richard wrote: Hi Kevin I have noted your reply to David Joyce=99s request for s/hand autopilot, by =9Cnavaid=9D do you mean the AI unit, if so how did it perform, was it as accurate as a full blown mechanical AI ? I have a limited panel fitted at the moment and miss not having the attitude indicator but have baulked at the cost and weight of fitting one. Hope you find what your looking for David. Regards Richard. From: Kelvin Cobb Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 6:18 PM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing leveller Hello David, I have the navaid head but no servo if that's any help? Sent from my iPad On 18 Nov 2013, at 16:45, DAVID JOYCE wrote: Does anyone have a wing leveller or autopilot suitable for a Europa that is gathering dust? rgds David The other one Sent to you from David Joyce www.eastmidsspas.com D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ot;">www.aeroelectric.com books.com"">www.buildersbooks.com quot;">www.homebuilthelp.com quot;">www.mypilotstore.com ">www.mrrace.com ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D //forums.matronics.com D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.mypilotstore.com">www.mypilotstore.com href="http://www.mrrace.com">www.mrrace.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href=/"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ot;">www.aeroelectric.com books.com"">www.buildersbooks.com quot;">www.homebuilthelp.com quot;">www.mypilotstore.com ">www.mrrace.com ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D //forums.matronics.com D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.