Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:41 AM - Re: What material is the thin yellow foam? (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk)
2. 12:54 AM - Re: What material is the thin yellow foam? (Dave Glowa)
3. 01:08 AM - Re: What material is the thin yellow foam? (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk)
4. 02:41 AM - Re: One wing Low (Alan Carter)
5. 02:42 AM - Re: Cockpit heater (Frans Veldman)
6. 03:02 AM - Re: Cockpit heater (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
7. 03:28 AM - Re: Re: One wing Low (Peter Zutrauen)
8. 03:38 AM - Re: Re: One wing Low (James Kelly)
9. 04:16 AM - Re: Re: One wing Low (Peter Zutrauen)
10. 08:24 AM - Re: What material is the thin yellow foam? (Andrew Sarangan)
11. 09:35 AM - Re: One wing Low (Alan Carter)
12. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: One wing Low (David Joyce)
13. 09:56 AM - Re: Re: One wing Low (Peter Zutrauen)
14. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: One wing Low (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
15. 10:21 AM - Re: One wing Low (gtagr)
16. 11:21 AM - Re: Re: One wing Low (William Daniell)
17. 01:12 PM - Re: Re: One wing Low (James Kelly)
18. 03:38 PM - One wing low (Jim McAvoy)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: What material is the thin yellow foam? |
Hi Andrew,
The rigid foam is a cross-linked PVC polymer and is manufactured by
AIREX ag. in Switzerland.
Available in various thicknesses and cell coarseness, the one that was
used by Europa is 3.0mm - R63.80
I have no idea who retails this on your side of the pond but I can give
you details of a UK supplier if needed.
a.t.b.
Nigel
On 09/12/2013 23:08, Andrew Sarangan wrote:
>
> Does anyone know what that thin (1/8"?) yellowish foam used
> extensively on the aircraft?
Message 2
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| Subject: | What material is the thin yellow foam? |
Andrew
>From memory the foam is Airex R63 available from IMPAG, it is a closed cell linear
thermoplastic polymer with a density of 60kg, its is a long time since I
bought some when I used to manufacture the wings and fuselages, Andy Draper at
the LAA may be able to confirm. The wing componenets were 5mm thick foam and
the fuselage components were 3mm foam.
Dave Glowa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan
Sent: 09 December 2013 23:08
Subject: Europa-List: What material is the thin yellow foam?
Does anyone know what that thin (1/8"?) yellowish foam used extensively on the
aircraft? Searching through the archive, there was a mention of it being PVC foam.
Aircraftspruce and Wicks do not seem to have anything that looks similar,
The only 1/8" foam I could find was Divinycell PVC foam, which is blue and has
a density of 3 lb/ft3.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: What material is the thin yellow foam? |
..... found it!
North America / South America:
Baltek Inc.
P.O. Box 16148, High Point, NC 27261
Office/Plant: 5240 National Center Drive
Colfax, North Carolina 27235, USA
Tel +1 336 398 1900
Fax +1 336 398 1901
corematerials.americas@3AComposites.com
On 10/12/2013 08:40, nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk wrote:
> <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
> The rigid foam is a cross-linked PVC polymer and is manufactured by
> AIREX ag. in Switzerland.
> Available in various thicknesses and cell coarseness, the one that was
> used by Europa is 3.0mm - R63.80
>
> I have no idea who retails this on your side of the pond but I can
> give you details of a UK supplier if needed.
>
> a.t.b.
>
> Nigel
>
> On 09/12/2013 23:08, Andrew Sarangan wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone know what that thin (1/8"?) yellowish foam used
>> extensively on the aircraft?
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: One wing Low |
Hi ALL.
No nothing about physics, I am sure all the ways suggested work, nice and simple,
but maybe a little crude , however I like simple solutions but many C of A
aeroplane have moving aileron trim tabs, and a little plastic tear drop with An
AA battery and radio controlled servo hitched up to plastic tab, and a radio
remote in the cockpit.
If we had a radio controlled model make out there, he could knock up a few and
sell them on the forum,
I made a fan unit for the top of the dash, maybe not quit as neat as the ones actually
shaped into the the top of the panel, but I would say pretty close, and
all I needed was an oblong hole , job done, I could have made several, just
like the torque tube clamps are rolled out. We need a radio model plane maker
to run up a few.
regards.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415301#415301
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cockpit heater |
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Hash: SHA1
On 12/08/2013 07:44 PM, Richard Scanlan wrote:
> Chris Piper from CKT engineering (they who make our exhausts)
> contacted me recently to ask if he could use my mono as a donor to
> develop a cabin heater. I believe he intends to sleeve the
> silencer as a warm air supply. Will post progress when work
> starts.
That's quite insane for an aircraft with a liquid cooling system.
Using the exhaust to heat has always been considered something to
avoid unless there are no other possibilities, like in an air cooled
Volkswagen Beetle or an air cooled Lycoming engine. It is avoided
because due to the high surface temperature it always gives a bad
smell and there is the risk of CO poisoning. Why not using the coolant
or the radiator exit air for cabin heating? It is one of the
advantages of the Rotax engine, not having to resort to exhaust based
cabin heating.
Frans
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cockpit heater |
Frans=0Aabsolutely right!=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________________
______=0A From: Frans Veldman <frans@privatepilots.nl>=0ATo: europa-list@ma
tronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, 10 December 2013, 10:41=0ASubject: Re: Europa
dman <frans@privatepilots.nl>=0A=0A-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----=0AHas
h: SHA1=0A=0AOn 12/08/2013 07:44 PM, Richard Scanlan wrote:=0A=0A> Chris Pi
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ently to ask if he could use my mono as a donor to =0A> develop a cabin hea
ter. I believe he intends to sleeve the=0A> silencer as a warm air supply.
Will post progress when work=0A> starts.=0A=0AThat's quite insane for an ai
rcraft with a liquid cooling system.=0AUsing the exhaust to heat has always
been considered something to=0Aavoid unless there are no other possibiliti
es, like in an air cooled=0AVolkswagen Beetle or an air cooled Lycoming eng
ine. It is avoided=0Abecause due to the high surface temperature it always
gives a bad=0Asmell and there is the risk of CO poisoning. Why not using th
e coolant=0Aor the radiator exit air for cabin heating? It is one of the=0A
advantages of the Rotax engine,- not having to resort to exhaust based=0A
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: One wing Low |
fwiw, my choice of sol'n is a Mac servo (purchased from ACS)* hidden* in
the cockpit module, driving a very simply laid-up composite horseshoe
spring. Complies with the std aviation paradigm of controlling and
indicating, and no wires/composite/connectivity work in the wing.
I have this setup in my other homebuilt for pitch trim and it works a treat.
Cheers,
Pete
A239
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 5:41 AM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net>wrote:
> >
>
> Hi ALL.
> No nothing about physics, I am sure all the ways suggested work, nice and
> simple, but maybe a little crude , however I like simple solutions but many
> C of A aeroplane have moving aileron trim tabs, and a little plastic tear
> drop with An AA battery and radio controlled servo hitched up to plastic
> tab, and a radio remote in the cockpit.
> If we had a radio controlled model make out there, he could knock up a few
> and sell them on the forum,
> I made a fan unit for the top of the dash, maybe not quit as neat as the
> ones actually shaped into the the top of the panel, but I would say pretty
> close, and all I needed was an oblong hole , job done, I could have made
> several, just like the torque tube clamps are rolled out. We need a radio
> model plane maker to run up a few.
> regards.
> Alan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415301#415301
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: One wing Low |
Hi Pete,
Would you be kind enough to explain your system to the
uninitiated in detail.
Thanks Jim G-BWEG
On Tuesday, December 10, 2013, Peter Zutrauen wrote:
> fwiw, my choice of sol'n is a Mac servo (purchased from ACS)* hidden* in
> the cockpit module, driving a very simply laid-up composite horseshoe
> spring. Complies with the std aviation paradigm of controlling and
> indicating, and no wires/composite/connectivity work in the wing.
>
> I have this setup in my other homebuilt for pitch trim and it works a
> treat.
>
> Cheers,
> Pete
> A239
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 5:41 AM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net<javascript:_e({},
'cvml', 'alancarteresq@onetel.net');>
> > wrote:
>
>> alancarteresq@onetel.net <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
>> 'alancarteresq@onetel.net');>>
>>
>> Hi ALL.
>> No nothing about physics, I am sure all the ways suggested work, nice and
>> simple, but maybe a little crude , however I like simple solutions but many
>> C of A aeroplane have moving aileron trim tabs, and a little plastic tear
>> drop with An AA battery and radio controlled servo hitched up to plastic
>> tab, and a radio remote in the cockpit.
>> If we had a radio controlled model make out there, he could knock up a
>> few and sell them on the forum,
>> I made a fan unit for the top of the dash, maybe not quit as neat as the
>> ones actually shaped into the the top of the panel, but I would say pretty
>> close, and all I needed was an oblong hole , job done, I could have made
>> several, just like the torque tube clamps are rolled out. We need a radio
>> model plane maker to run up a few.
>> regards.
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415301#415301
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> et="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
>> "_blank">www.mrrace.com
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> le, List Admin.
>> ==========
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: One wing Low |
Hi James,
I don't have any pics of my other installation on hand but will send you
one tonight (EST). Basically I just took one of these:
http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/ractrimservos2.php and on
the end of the actuator attached one end of an open-ended composite
horseshoe with a bolt/pin to provide a 'hinge'. The other end of the
horseshoe is attached again with a bolt-hinge to the control tube providing
a push/pull via a clamp or bracket. Alternatively it could also be attached
to the control system via a clamped-on-arm to rotate aileron tube under the
seat (not having done a Europa install I don't have the specific
installation details figured out yet). The spring rate can easily be
adjusted by incrementally adding layups (I love 'glass :-)
The spring in my other lil'l homebuilt (not glass :-( ) has more than
adequate spring force over the 1.2" of travel of the servo, but less than
the servo's spec'd limit. One has to consider the alignment carefully to
minimize any side loads on the servo.
hth's,
Cheers,
Pete
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 6:37 AM, James Kelly <europajimkelly@gmail.com>wrote:
> Hi Pete,
> Would you be kind enough to explain your system to the
> uninitiated in detail.
> Thanks Jim G-BWEG
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 10, 2013, Peter Zutrauen wrote:
>
>> fwiw, my choice of sol'n is a Mac servo (purchased from ACS)* hidden* in
>> the cockpit module, driving a very simply laid-up composite horseshoe
>> spring. Complies with the std aviation paradigm of controlling and
>> indicating, and no wires/composite/connectivity work in the wing.
>>
>> I have this setup in my other homebuilt for pitch trim and it works a
>> treat.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Pete
>> A239
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 5:41 AM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net>wrote:
>>
>>> alancarteresq@onetel.net>
>>>
>>> Hi ALL.
>>> No nothing about physics, I am sure all the ways suggested work, nice
>>> and simple, but maybe a little crude , however I like simple solutions but
>>> many C of A aeroplane have moving aileron trim tabs, and a little plastic
>>> tear drop with An AA battery and radio controlled servo hitched up to
>>> plastic tab, and a radio remote in the cockpit.
>>> If we had a radio controlled model make out there, he could knock up a
>>> few and sell them on the forum,
>>> I made a fan unit for the top of the dash, maybe not quit as neat as the
>>> ones actually shaped into the the top of the panel, but I would say pretty
>>> close, and all I needed was an oblong hole , job done, I could have made
>>> several, just like the torque tube clamps are rolled out. We need a radio
>>> model plane maker to run up a few.
>>> regards.
>>> Alan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415301#415301
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>>> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>> et="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com
>>> "_blank">www.mrrace.com
>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> le, List Admin.
>>> ==========
>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>>> ==========
>>> http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> *
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>
>> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com <http://www.mypilotstore.com>
>> ank">www.mrrace.com <http://www.mrrace.com>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com>
>> *
>>
>> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: What material is the thin yellow foam? |
Great, thank you for looking that up!
It is amazing how some of these things don't show up on any search engines.
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 4:07 AM, nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk
<nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk> wrote:
> <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
>
> ..... found it!
>
> North America / South America:
>
> Baltek Inc.
> P.O. Box 16148, High Point, NC 27261
> Office/Plant: 5240 National Center Drive
> Colfax, North Carolina 27235, USA
> Tel +1 336 398 1900
> Fax +1 336 398 1901
> corematerials.americas@3AComposites.com
>
>
> On 10/12/2013 08:40, nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk wrote:
>>
>> <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
>>
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> The rigid foam is a cross-linked PVC polymer and is manufactured by AIREX
>> ag. in Switzerland.
>> Available in various thicknesses and cell coarseness, the one that was
>> used by Europa is 3.0mm - R63.80
>>
>> I have no idea who retails this on your side of the pond but I can give
>> you details of a UK supplier if needed.
>>
>> a.t.b.
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>> On 09/12/2013 23:08, Andrew Sarangan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone know what that thin (1/8"?) yellowish foam used
>>> extensively on the aircraft?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: One wing Low |
Hi All.
Peter sounds like you have it sorted, but you are a builder.
I may try to find a model maker who can make me a little teardrop bulge with servo
and tab, I can , ( you see if you not a builder you can use the word,) glue
to the underside of the aileron surface. maybe next year but for the time being
looks like a spring bungee cord on the stick or just my hand and foot, and
grim face.
Regards.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415333#415333
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: One wing Low |
Alan, Beware of anything that is attached to the stick
which could possibly slip and jam things, or get caught in
a foot or whatever. I would feel a strip of balsa,
plastic, draft excluder or whatever glued just under the
trailing edge of the right aileron is a better temporary
or permanent solution. Put a longish strip on initially
and cut bits off to adjust - very simple and trouble free.
I have a short strip of triangular section (like trailing
edge of a balsa plane model) wood attached to my port
aileron, and painted white - works a treat. Regards, David
Joyce, G- XSDJ
On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 09:34:25 -0800
"Alan Carter" <alancarteresq@onetel.net> wrote:
><alancarteresq@onetel.net>
>
> Hi All.
> Peter sounds like you have it sorted, but you are a
>builder.
> I may try to find a model maker who can make me a little
>teardrop bulge with servo and tab, I can , ( you see if
>you not a builder you can use the word,) glue to the
>underside of the aileron surface. maybe next year but for
>the time being looks like a spring bungee cord on the
>stick or just my hand and foot, and grim face.
> Regards.
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415333#415333
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Admin.
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: One wing Low |
don't forget to re-balance the aileron if one modifies it :)
Cheers,
Pete
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq@onetel.net>wrote:
> >
>
> Hi All.
> Peter sounds like you have it sorted, but you are a builder.
> I may try to find a model maker who can make me a little teardrop bulge
> with servo and tab, I can , ( you see if you not a builder you can use the
> word,) glue to the underside of the aileron surface. maybe next year but
> for the time being looks like a spring bungee cord on the stick or just my
> hand and foot, and grim face.
> Regards.
> Alan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415333#415333
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: One wing Low |
Hi Alan
You could probably go blue tooth for control, just use your smart phone.
I installed a Ray Allen servo in my aileron with the top being flush with
the top and the control horn exits the bottom. I have it controlling a
piece of hinge on the trail edge of the aileron. Not a great shot, left
aileron, view in 600 you can see the bottom of aileron:
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=27605&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Don't forget you need to balance the aileron after you fool with it.
I don't know how keen I would be to use a Lithium Polymer battery.
For capacity, cheap, readily available and a very low self discharge, I
would go with a quality alkaline. keeping them it as far forward as you
can. Tungsten is heavier than lead, so you could try and find foam plugs
in your balancing arms, or just drill and insert rods of tungsten (unless
you can locate some depleted uranium rods surrounded with stainless
steel). Put a switch that is easily accessible to turn it off and
some sort of battery indication you can check on your pre-flight.
I know Steve D. was fooling with altitude hold:
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=24893
Wonder if they make wing leveling too? Hmm, if you made a minimalist wing
leveling tab, you could just leave it on wing level all the time when
flying, it would always try to keep wings level, then when you want to
bank, you could easily over ride it!
Ron Parigoris
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: One wing Low |
For what its worth, I have a 180mm long strip of A4 document binder spine - a kind
of 'A' section plastic extrusion - taped to the underside (and innermost edge)
of my right aileron to remove the otherwise unbalanced roll forces at my
cruise speed of 110kts. I visually check the tape holding it on at each preflight
check - has never been a problem, is cheap and has worked perfectly for three
years. Just vary the length to generate the upward aileron forces needed
to make it effective at the speed you want it to work at.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415339#415339
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: One wing Low |
I would be cautious about any radio controlled =EDtem=85as I recall they
they
work on common frequencies. When you are flying a radio controlled
aircraft
you have to ensure that all flyers are on different frequencies and
everyone
has a little banner to indicate what frequency they are using.
Will
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 13:13
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: One wing Low
Hi Alan
You could probably go blue tooth for control, just use your smart phone.
I
installed a Ray Allen servo in my aileron with the top being flush with
the
top and the control horn exits the bottom. I have it controlling a piece
of
hinge on the trail edge of the aileron. Not a great shot, left aileron,
view
in 600 you can see the bottom of aileron:
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=27605
<http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=27605&g2_imageViewsInde
x=1>
&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
Don't forget you need to balance the aileron after you fool with it. I
don't
know how keen I would be to use a Lithium Polymer battery. For capacity,
cheap, readily available and a very low self discharge, I would go with
a
quality alkaline. keeping them it as far forward as you can. Tungsten is
heavier than lead, so you could try and find foam plugs in your
balancing
arms, or just drill and insert rods of tungsten (unless you can locate
some
depleted uranium rods surrounded with stainless steel). Put a switch
that
is easily accessible to turn it off and some sort of battery indication
you
can check on your pre-flight.
I know Steve D. was fooling with altitude hold:
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=24893
Wonder if they make wing leveling too? Hmm, if you made a minimalist
wing
leveling tab, you could just leave it on wing level all the time when
flying, it would always try to keep wings level, then when you want to
bank,
you could easily over ride it!
Ron Parigoris
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: One wing Low |
Hi Clive,
That's interesting do you have a pic ?
Sorry I missed you at Sywell.
Jim
On Tuesday, December 10, 2013, gtagr wrote:
> >
>
> For what its worth, I have a 180mm long strip of A4 document binder spine
> - a kind of 'A' section plastic extrusion - taped to the underside (and
> innermost edge) of my right aileron to remove the otherwise unbalanced roll
> forces at my cruise speed of 110kts. I visually check the tape holding it
> on at each preflight check - has never been a problem, is cheap and has
> worked perfectly for three years. Just vary the length to generate the
> upward aileron forces needed to make it effective at the speed you want it
> to work at.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415339#415339
>
>
Message 18
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Thanks Tony, I was about to throw in my 2 bobs worth.
I also experienced some "one wing low" symptoms early on, but did not want the
(slight) extra weight and complications of servos etc. or the cosmetic ugliness
of trim tabs.
My fix for both aileron and rudder trim turned out to be what I consider an elegant
solution.
For lateral adjustments, I made attach points at the base of the control stick
and ran light bungee cord either side to small plastic cleats, I think they are
designed for blind cords. It's simple in flight to reach down and adjust the
tension, which biases in either direction.
Same idea for the rudder. The bungee goes from the rudder pedal to a small pulley
on the firewall and back up to cleats either side of the footwell, within reach
during flight.
The only time I need to change the roll bungee is when I have a passenger aboard.
Once the rudder was set I found I could remove one side. In my case there would
be no more than 1 lb of pull applied, however the system is capable of 5
or 6 lb, any more than that and I would be looking at overall rigging (uneven
angle of incidence perhaps, or engine mount alignment).
If you would like some pics, email me direct jimca@ozemail.com.au but it will take
a while as the Europa is in storage for the next month or so.
Jim McAvoy
XS Mono
VH-IHV
Australia
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