---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/10/13: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:41 AM - Re: What material is the thin yellow foam? (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk) 2. 12:54 AM - Re: What material is the thin yellow foam? (Dave Glowa) 3. 01:08 AM - Re: What material is the thin yellow foam? (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk) 4. 02:41 AM - Re: One wing Low (Alan Carter) 5. 02:42 AM - Re: Cockpit heater (Frans Veldman) 6. 03:02 AM - Re: Cockpit heater (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 7. 03:28 AM - Re: Re: One wing Low (Peter Zutrauen) 8. 03:38 AM - Re: Re: One wing Low (James Kelly) 9. 04:16 AM - Re: Re: One wing Low (Peter Zutrauen) 10. 08:24 AM - Re: What material is the thin yellow foam? (Andrew Sarangan) 11. 09:35 AM - Re: One wing Low (Alan Carter) 12. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: One wing Low (David Joyce) 13. 09:56 AM - Re: Re: One wing Low (Peter Zutrauen) 14. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: One wing Low (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 15. 10:21 AM - Re: One wing Low (gtagr) 16. 11:21 AM - Re: Re: One wing Low (William Daniell) 17. 01:12 PM - Re: Re: One wing Low (James Kelly) 18. 03:38 PM - One wing low (Jim McAvoy) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:31 AM PST US From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" Subject: Re: Europa-List: What material is the thin yellow foam? Hi Andrew, The rigid foam is a cross-linked PVC polymer and is manufactured by AIREX ag. in Switzerland. Available in various thicknesses and cell coarseness, the one that was used by Europa is 3.0mm - R63.80 I have no idea who retails this on your side of the pond but I can give you details of a UK supplier if needed. a.t.b. Nigel On 09/12/2013 23:08, Andrew Sarangan wrote: > > Does anyone know what that thin (1/8"?) yellowish foam used > extensively on the aircraft? ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:08 AM PST US From: Dave Glowa Subject: RE: Europa-List: What material is the thin yellow foam? Andrew >From memory the foam is Airex R63 available from IMPAG, it is a closed cell linear thermoplastic polymer with a density of 60kg, its is a long time since I bought some when I used to manufacture the wings and fuselages, Andy Draper at the LAA may be able to confirm. The wing componenets were 5mm thick foam and the fuselage components were 3mm foam. Dave Glowa -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan Sent: 09 December 2013 23:08 Subject: Europa-List: What material is the thin yellow foam? Does anyone know what that thin (1/8"?) yellowish foam used extensively on the aircraft? Searching through the archive, there was a mention of it being PVC foam. Aircraftspruce and Wicks do not seem to have anything that looks similar, The only 1/8" foam I could find was Divinycell PVC foam, which is blue and has a density of 3 lb/ft3. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:13 AM PST US From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" Subject: Re: Europa-List: What material is the thin yellow foam? ..... found it! North America / South America: Baltek Inc. P.O. Box 16148, High Point, NC 27261 Office/Plant: 5240 National Center Drive Colfax, North Carolina 27235, USA Tel +1 336 398 1900 Fax +1 336 398 1901 corematerials.americas@3AComposites.com On 10/12/2013 08:40, nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk wrote: > > > Hi Andrew, > > The rigid foam is a cross-linked PVC polymer and is manufactured by > AIREX ag. in Switzerland. > Available in various thicknesses and cell coarseness, the one that was > used by Europa is 3.0mm - R63.80 > > I have no idea who retails this on your side of the pond but I can > give you details of a UK supplier if needed. > > a.t.b. > > Nigel > > On 09/12/2013 23:08, Andrew Sarangan wrote: >> >> Does anyone know what that thin (1/8"?) yellowish foam used >> extensively on the aircraft? > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:41:40 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: One wing Low From: "Alan Carter" Hi ALL. No nothing about physics, I am sure all the ways suggested work, nice and simple, but maybe a little crude , however I like simple solutions but many C of A aeroplane have moving aileron trim tabs, and a little plastic tear drop with An AA battery and radio controlled servo hitched up to plastic tab, and a radio remote in the cockpit. If we had a radio controlled model make out there, he could knock up a few and sell them on the forum, I made a fan unit for the top of the dash, maybe not quit as neat as the ones actually shaped into the the top of the panel, but I would say pretty close, and all I needed was an oblong hole , job done, I could have made several, just like the torque tube clamps are rolled out. We need a radio model plane maker to run up a few. regards. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415301#415301 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:42:27 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cockpit heater -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 12/08/2013 07:44 PM, Richard Scanlan wrote: > Chris Piper from CKT engineering (they who make our exhausts) > contacted me recently to ask if he could use my mono as a donor to > develop a cabin heater. I believe he intends to sleeve the > silencer as a warm air supply. Will post progress when work > starts. That's quite insane for an aircraft with a liquid cooling system. Using the exhaust to heat has always been considered something to avoid unless there are no other possibilities, like in an air cooled Volkswagen Beetle or an air cooled Lycoming engine. It is avoided because due to the high surface temperature it always gives a bad smell and there is the risk of CO poisoning. Why not using the coolant or the radiator exit air for cabin heating? It is one of the advantages of the Rotax engine, not having to resort to exhaust based cabin heating. Frans -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSpu/NAAoJEC+zXxqs0ZzV/PMQANKtl1U26TvQy10ebMEOo3A8 x4ACWOHvUdO5L8ftfF2VeaytRlYxER1AEO7g6aL1WQOwXx3VNy5/D/qHjv85Hmaz N7KlJxNsRTmd5B91sb1LHuJuyqbXYc54WDcYXR+L05KsNwVI2oW6JBKrtSiQArnr DUZdqUkFtiXAOzl6/FGhIAdhVRLDRRdDVSEuaecre08nc9PcxRz/uc6+cL8M2Y/4 FAEcCQiQ+cTTvD4f0R24qoBjJP1xWCV2Us0P7YETjzzTmpC2dBBAO3zIrSaTJ+3X WrOAap3NrZBKQFGWV6E9+XYTjHZcsL7xyeI5F2hKibFcsSn3Az2u6TS6sXTLxqIn fSiUg9/LJqZ9MCRyCzL8FUpeYk/PszNC0m7mc2P3YVuvbyiwhVGllmcXU9NLRR6Z 0bmDs0oOVPT9qlx8dQKvNtVaPHZaDblVCERzjj1GQivaynunQYsdYBS0vw3+4bd9 WY5xOAJlCSulJoE1YFb35alkAoM9JvwWRikio6eKZ7tEctD/IxgMc+GuDkW1sFqE oGU7mvUpMZiKYtQ6K4auvVdRCjxU6fz/8+iC7w/aUwt0op+txGoGJW8yma+v5wg9 2P0DJmzp22LICLCB49C1fkD9FlDT8DXOMGj2sDtIHvtAAQ2ivwznv5+lmlTuqrti XBC+jznW2hWCTdipBz/w =wXFU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:49 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cockpit heater Frans=0Aabsolutely right!=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________________ ______=0A From: Frans Veldman =0ATo: europa-list@ma tronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, 10 December 2013, 10:41=0ASubject: Re: Europa dman =0A=0A-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----=0AHas h: SHA1=0A=0AOn 12/08/2013 07:44 PM, Richard Scanlan wrote:=0A=0A> Chris Pi per from CKT engineering (they who make our exhausts) =0A> contacted me rec ently to ask if he could use my mono as a donor to =0A> develop a cabin hea ter. I believe he intends to sleeve the=0A> silencer as a warm air supply. Will post progress when work=0A> starts.=0A=0AThat's quite insane for an ai rcraft with a liquid cooling system.=0AUsing the exhaust to heat has always been considered something to=0Aavoid unless there are no other possibiliti es, like in an air cooled=0AVolkswagen Beetle or an air cooled Lycoming eng ine. It is avoided=0Abecause due to the high surface temperature it always gives a bad=0Asmell and there is the risk of CO poisoning. Why not using th e coolant=0Aor the radiator exit air for cabin heating? It is one of the=0A advantages of the Rotax engine,- not having to resort to exhaust based=0A cabin heating.=0A=0AFrans=0A-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----=0AVersion: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)=0A=0AiQIcBAEBAgAGBQJSpu/NAAoJEC+zXxqs0ZzV/PMQANKtl1U26T vQy10ebMEOo3A8=0Ax4ACWOHvUdO5L8ftfF2VeaytRlYxER1AEO7g6aL1WQOwXx3VNy5/D/qHjv 85Hmaz=0AN7KlJxNsRTmd5B91sb1LHuJuyqbXYc54WDcYXR+L05KsNwVI2oW6JBKrtSiQArnr =0ADUZdqUkFtiXAOzl6/FGhIAdhVRLDRRdDVSEuaecre08nc9PcxRz/uc6+cL8M2Y/4=0AFAEcC QiQ+cTTvD4f0R24qoBjJP1xWCV2Us0P7YETjzzTmpC2dBBAO3zIrSaTJ+3X=0AWrOAap3NrZBKQ FGWV6E9+XYTjHZcsL7xyeI5F2hKibFcsSn3Az2u6TS6sXTLxqIn=0AfSiUg9/LJqZ9MCRyCzL8F UpeYk/PszNC0m7mc2P3YVuvbyiwhVGllmcXU9NLRR6Z=0A0bmDs0oOVPT9qlx8dQKvNtVaPHZaD blVCERzjj1GQivaynunQYsdYBS0vw3+4bd9=0AWY5xOAJlCSulJoE1YFb35alkAoM9JvwWRikio 6eKZ7tEctD/IxgMc+GuDkW1sFqE=0AoGU7mvUpMZiKYtQ6K4auvVdRCjxU6fz/8+iC7w/aUwt0o p+txGoGJW8yma+v5wg9=0A2P0DJmzp22LICLCB49C1fkD9FlDT8DXOMGj2sDtIHvtAAQ2ivwznv 5+lmlTuqrti=0AXBC+jznW2hWCTdipBz/w=0A=wXFU=0A-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:28:47 AM PST US From: Peter Zutrauen Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: One wing Low fwiw, my choice of sol'n is a Mac servo (purchased from ACS)* hidden* in the cockpit module, driving a very simply laid-up composite horseshoe spring. Complies with the std aviation paradigm of controlling and indicating, and no wires/composite/connectivity work in the wing. I have this setup in my other homebuilt for pitch trim and it works a treat. Cheers, Pete A239 On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 5:41 AM, Alan Carter wrote: > > > > Hi ALL. > No nothing about physics, I am sure all the ways suggested work, nice and > simple, but maybe a little crude , however I like simple solutions but many > C of A aeroplane have moving aileron trim tabs, and a little plastic tear > drop with An AA battery and radio controlled servo hitched up to plastic > tab, and a radio remote in the cockpit. > If we had a radio controlled model make out there, he could knock up a few > and sell them on the forum, > I made a fan unit for the top of the dash, maybe not quit as neat as the > ones actually shaped into the the top of the panel, but I would say pretty > close, and all I needed was an oblong hole , job done, I could have made > several, just like the torque tube clamps are rolled out. We need a radio > model plane maker to run up a few. > regards. > Alan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415301#415301 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: One wing Low From: James Kelly Hi Pete, Would you be kind enough to explain your system to the uninitiated in detail. Thanks Jim G-BWEG On Tuesday, December 10, 2013, Peter Zutrauen wrote: > fwiw, my choice of sol'n is a Mac servo (purchased from ACS)* hidden* in > the cockpit module, driving a very simply laid-up composite horseshoe > spring. Complies with the std aviation paradigm of controlling and > indicating, and no wires/composite/connectivity work in the wing. > > I have this setup in my other homebuilt for pitch trim and it works a > treat. > > Cheers, > Pete > A239 > > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 5:41 AM, Alan Carter > > wrote: > >> alancarteresq@onetel.net > 'alancarteresq@onetel.net');>> >> >> Hi ALL. >> No nothing about physics, I am sure all the ways suggested work, nice and >> simple, but maybe a little crude , however I like simple solutions but many >> C of A aeroplane have moving aileron trim tabs, and a little plastic tear >> drop with An AA battery and radio controlled servo hitched up to plastic >> tab, and a radio remote in the cockpit. >> If we had a radio controlled model make out there, he could knock up a >> few and sell them on the forum, >> I made a fan unit for the top of the dash, maybe not quit as neat as the >> ones actually shaped into the the top of the panel, but I would say pretty >> close, and all I needed was an oblong hole , job done, I could have made >> several, just like the torque tube clamps are rolled out. We need a radio >> model plane maker to run up a few. >> regards. >> Alan >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415301#415301 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> et="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >> "_blank">www.mrrace.com >> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> le, List Admin. >> ========== >> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> ========== >> http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> >> >> >> > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:12 AM PST US From: Peter Zutrauen Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: One wing Low Hi James, I don't have any pics of my other installation on hand but will send you one tonight (EST). Basically I just took one of these: http://www.aircraftspruce.ca/catalog/elpages/ractrimservos2.php and on the end of the actuator attached one end of an open-ended composite horseshoe with a bolt/pin to provide a 'hinge'. The other end of the horseshoe is attached again with a bolt-hinge to the control tube providing a push/pull via a clamp or bracket. Alternatively it could also be attached to the control system via a clamped-on-arm to rotate aileron tube under the seat (not having done a Europa install I don't have the specific installation details figured out yet). The spring rate can easily be adjusted by incrementally adding layups (I love 'glass :-) The spring in my other lil'l homebuilt (not glass :-( ) has more than adequate spring force over the 1.2" of travel of the servo, but less than the servo's spec'd limit. One has to consider the alignment carefully to minimize any side loads on the servo. hth's, Cheers, Pete On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 6:37 AM, James Kelly wrote: > Hi Pete, > Would you be kind enough to explain your system to the > uninitiated in detail. > Thanks Jim G-BWEG > > > On Tuesday, December 10, 2013, Peter Zutrauen wrote: > >> fwiw, my choice of sol'n is a Mac servo (purchased from ACS)* hidden* in >> the cockpit module, driving a very simply laid-up composite horseshoe >> spring. Complies with the std aviation paradigm of controlling and >> indicating, and no wires/composite/connectivity work in the wing. >> >> I have this setup in my other homebuilt for pitch trim and it works a >> treat. >> >> Cheers, >> Pete >> A239 >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 5:41 AM, Alan Carter wrote: >> >>> alancarteresq@onetel.net> >>> >>> Hi ALL. >>> No nothing about physics, I am sure all the ways suggested work, nice >>> and simple, but maybe a little crude , however I like simple solutions but >>> many C of A aeroplane have moving aileron trim tabs, and a little plastic >>> tear drop with An AA battery and radio controlled servo hitched up to >>> plastic tab, and a radio remote in the cockpit. >>> If we had a radio controlled model make out there, he could knock up a >>> few and sell them on the forum, >>> I made a fan unit for the top of the dash, maybe not quit as neat as the >>> ones actually shaped into the the top of the panel, but I would say pretty >>> close, and all I needed was an oblong hole , job done, I could have made >>> several, just like the torque tube clamps are rolled out. We need a radio >>> model plane maker to run up a few. >>> regards. >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415301#415301 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ========== >>> ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com >>> ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >>> et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >>> et="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >>> "_blank">www.mrrace.com >>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> le, List Admin. >>> ========== >>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >>> ========== >>> http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> >> * >> >> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> ="_blank">www.mypilotstore.com >> ank">www.mrrace.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> * >> >> * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:46 AM PST US From: Andrew Sarangan Subject: Re: Europa-List: What material is the thin yellow foam? Great, thank you for looking that up! It is amazing how some of these things don't show up on any search engines. On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 4:07 AM, nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk wrote: > > > ..... found it! > > North America / South America: > > Baltek Inc. > P.O. Box 16148, High Point, NC 27261 > Office/Plant: 5240 National Center Drive > Colfax, North Carolina 27235, USA > Tel +1 336 398 1900 > Fax +1 336 398 1901 > corematerials.americas@3AComposites.com > > > On 10/12/2013 08:40, nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Andrew, >> >> The rigid foam is a cross-linked PVC polymer and is manufactured by AIREX >> ag. in Switzerland. >> Available in various thicknesses and cell coarseness, the one that was >> used by Europa is 3.0mm - R63.80 >> >> I have no idea who retails this on your side of the pond but I can give >> you details of a UK supplier if needed. >> >> a.t.b. >> >> Nigel >> >> On 09/12/2013 23:08, Andrew Sarangan wrote: >>> >>> >>> Does anyone know what that thin (1/8"?) yellowish foam used >>> extensively on the aircraft? >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:08 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: One wing Low From: "Alan Carter" Hi All. Peter sounds like you have it sorted, but you are a builder. I may try to find a model maker who can make me a little teardrop bulge with servo and tab, I can , ( you see if you not a builder you can use the word,) glue to the underside of the aileron surface. maybe next year but for the time being looks like a spring bungee cord on the stick or just my hand and foot, and grim face. Regards. Alan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415333#415333 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:26 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: One wing Low Alan, Beware of anything that is attached to the stick which could possibly slip and jam things, or get caught in a foot or whatever. I would feel a strip of balsa, plastic, draft excluder or whatever glued just under the trailing edge of the right aileron is a better temporary or permanent solution. Put a longish strip on initially and cut bits off to adjust - very simple and trouble free. I have a short strip of triangular section (like trailing edge of a balsa plane model) wood attached to my port aileron, and painted white - works a treat. Regards, David Joyce, G- XSDJ On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 09:34:25 -0800 "Alan Carter" wrote: > > > Hi All. > Peter sounds like you have it sorted, but you are a >builder. > I may try to find a model maker who can make me a little >teardrop bulge with servo and tab, I can , ( you see if >you not a builder you can use the word,) glue to the >underside of the aileron surface. maybe next year but for >the time being looks like a spring bungee cord on the >stick or just my hand and foot, and grim face. > Regards. > Alan > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415333#415333 > > > > > > > >Admin. >Un/Subscription, >Forums! > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:42 AM PST US From: Peter Zutrauen Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: One wing Low don't forget to re-balance the aileron if one modifies it :) Cheers, Pete On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Alan Carter wrote: > > > > Hi All. > Peter sounds like you have it sorted, but you are a builder. > I may try to find a model maker who can make me a little teardrop bulge > with servo and tab, I can , ( you see if you not a builder you can use the > word,) glue to the underside of the aileron surface. maybe next year but > for the time being looks like a spring bungee cord on the stick or just my > hand and foot, and grim face. > Regards. > Alan > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415333#415333 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: One wing Low From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Alan You could probably go blue tooth for control, just use your smart phone. I installed a Ray Allen servo in my aileron with the top being flush with the top and the control horn exits the bottom. I have it controlling a piece of hinge on the trail edge of the aileron. Not a great shot, left aileron, view in 600 you can see the bottom of aileron: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=27605&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 Don't forget you need to balance the aileron after you fool with it. I don't know how keen I would be to use a Lithium Polymer battery. For capacity, cheap, readily available and a very low self discharge, I would go with a quality alkaline. keeping them it as far forward as you can. Tungsten is heavier than lead, so you could try and find foam plugs in your balancing arms, or just drill and insert rods of tungsten (unless you can locate some depleted uranium rods surrounded with stainless steel). Put a switch that is easily accessible to turn it off and some sort of battery indication you can check on your pre-flight. I know Steve D. was fooling with altitude hold: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=24893 Wonder if they make wing leveling too? Hmm, if you made a minimalist wing leveling tab, you could just leave it on wing level all the time when flying, it would always try to keep wings level, then when you want to bank, you could easily over ride it! Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:10 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: One wing Low From: "gtagr" For what its worth, I have a 180mm long strip of A4 document binder spine - a kind of 'A' section plastic extrusion - taped to the underside (and innermost edge) of my right aileron to remove the otherwise unbalanced roll forces at my cruise speed of 110kts. I visually check the tape holding it on at each preflight check - has never been a problem, is cheap and has worked perfectly for three years. Just vary the length to generate the upward aileron forces needed to make it effective at the speed you want it to work at. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415339#415339 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:56 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: One wing Low I would be cautious about any radio controlled =EDtem=85as I recall they they work on common frequencies. When you are flying a radio controlled aircraft you have to ensure that all flyers are on different frequencies and everyone has a little banner to indicate what frequency they are using. Will From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 13:13 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: One wing Low Hi Alan You could probably go blue tooth for control, just use your smart phone. I installed a Ray Allen servo in my aileron with the top being flush with the top and the control horn exits the bottom. I have it controlling a piece of hinge on the trail edge of the aileron. Not a great shot, left aileron, view in 600 you can see the bottom of aileron: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=27605 &g2_imageViewsIndex=1 Don't forget you need to balance the aileron after you fool with it. I don't know how keen I would be to use a Lithium Polymer battery. For capacity, cheap, readily available and a very low self discharge, I would go with a quality alkaline. keeping them it as far forward as you can. Tungsten is heavier than lead, so you could try and find foam plugs in your balancing arms, or just drill and insert rods of tungsten (unless you can locate some depleted uranium rods surrounded with stainless steel). Put a switch that is easily accessible to turn it off and some sort of battery indication you can check on your pre-flight. I know Steve D. was fooling with altitude hold: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=24893 Wonder if they make wing leveling too? Hmm, if you made a minimalist wing leveling tab, you could just leave it on wing level all the time when flying, it would always try to keep wings level, then when you want to bank, you could easily over ride it! Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:12:11 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: One wing Low From: James Kelly Hi Clive, That's interesting do you have a pic ? Sorry I missed you at Sywell. Jim On Tuesday, December 10, 2013, gtagr wrote: > > > > For what its worth, I have a 180mm long strip of A4 document binder spine > - a kind of 'A' section plastic extrusion - taped to the underside (and > innermost edge) of my right aileron to remove the otherwise unbalanced roll > forces at my cruise speed of 110kts. I visually check the tape holding it > on at each preflight check - has never been a problem, is cheap and has > worked perfectly for three years. Just vary the length to generate the > upward aileron forces needed to make it effective at the speed you want it > to work at. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415339#415339 > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:55 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: One wing low From: Jim McAvoy Thanks Tony, I was about to throw in my 2 bobs worth. I also experienced some "one wing low" symptoms early on, but did not want the (slight) extra weight and complications of servos etc. or the cosmetic ugliness of trim tabs. My fix for both aileron and rudder trim turned out to be what I consider an elegant solution. For lateral adjustments, I made attach points at the base of the control stick and ran light bungee cord either side to small plastic cleats, I think they are designed for blind cords. It's simple in flight to reach down and adjust the tension, which biases in either direction. Same idea for the rudder. The bungee goes from the rudder pedal to a small pulley on the firewall and back up to cleats either side of the footwell, within reach during flight. The only time I need to change the roll bungee is when I have a passenger aboard. Once the rudder was set I found I could remove one side. In my case there would be no more than 1 lb of pull applied, however the system is capable of 5 or 6 lb, any more than that and I would be looking at overall rigging (uneven angle of incidence perhaps, or engine mount alignment). If you would like some pics, email me direct jimca@ozemail.com.au but it will take a while as the Europa is in storage for the next month or so. Jim McAvoy XS Mono VH-IHV Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.