Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:44 AM - Using French land as an airfield? (gtagr)
2. 04:27 AM - Re: Using French land as an airfield? (David Joyce)
3. 04:45 AM - Re: Using French land as an airfield? (Clives email)
4. 08:00 AM - Re: Using French land as an airfield? (jonathanmilbank)
5. 08:27 AM - Re: Re: Using French land as an airfield? (Peter Zutrauen)
6. 08:48 AM - Re: Using French land as an airfield? (James Kelly)
7. 03:53 PM - Static in fuel system (Andrew Sarangan)
8. 05:06 PM - Re: Static in fuel system (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
9. 06:58 PM - Re: Static in fuel system (Andrew Sarangan)
Message 1
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Subject: | Using French land as an airfield? |
Friends,
I've an ambition to buy land in France and build a house.
In the UK we have a '30-day rule' that says you can use any land you own for any
use (including an airfield) providing you use it for not more than 30 days a
year for that purpose. If you do, you'd need planning permission - which would
be tortuous and in the case of an airfield application, almost certainly unsuccessful.
What are the rules in France for turning land you own into an airstrip?
Could our French colleagues let us know? Perhaps there is some official route
to take?
(PS, I'm aware of the airpark schemes in France but don't want to go that route
due to annual cost)
?
Regards,
Clive Sutton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415810#415810
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Subject: | Re: Using French land as an airfield? |
Clive, It has no relevance to your query, but I thought
the UK rule was something like you can land a plane in a
farmer's field for up to 30 times in any month without
needing to have planning permission as an airfield.
Regards, David
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 03:43:40 -0800
"gtagr" <clive.maf@googlemail.com> wrote:
><clive.maf@googlemail.com>
>
>Friends,
>
> I've an ambition to buy land in France and build a
>house.
>
> In the UK we have a '30-day rule' that says you can use
>any land you own for any use (including an airfield)
>providing you use it for not more than 30 days a year for
>that purpose. If you do, you'd need planning permission
>- which would be tortuous and in the case of an airfield
>application, almost certainly unsuccessful.
>
> What are the rules in France for turning land you own
>into an airstrip?
>
> Could our French colleagues let us know? Perhaps there
>is some official route to take?
>
> (PS, I'm aware of the airpark schemes in France but
>don't want to go that route due to annual cost)
>
> ?
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Clive Sutton
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415810#415810
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Admin.
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Using French land as an airfield? |
Hi David,
I hope all well and Happy Christmas
Yes, maybe my wording could be better; As I understand it, as a UK landowner you
can use (land your a/c) your own land for 30 (specifically 28 days) days/yr
without getting planning permission. If a farmer grants permissions for that
to you (or as a flying Farmer uses it himself), no need for planning permission.
More than 30 days and you need a planning application - and you can guess
how likely getting that granted that is going to be . . .
More here;
http://www.uklanddirectory.org.uk/land-usage.asp
regards,
Clive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce
Sent: 18 December 2013 12:27
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Using French land as an airfield?
--> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Clive, It has no relevance to your query, but I thought the UK rule was something
like you can land a plane in a farmer's field for up to 30 times in any month
without needing to have planning permission as an airfield.
Regards, David
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 03:43:40 -0800
"gtagr" <clive.maf@googlemail.com> wrote:
><clive.maf@googlemail.com>
>
>Friends,
>
> I've an ambition to buy land in France and build a house.
>
> In the UK we have a '30-day rule' that says you can use any land you
>own for any use (including an airfield) providing you use it for not
>more than 30 days a year for that purpose. If you do, you'd need
>planning permission
>- which would be tortuous and in the case of an airfield application,
>almost certainly unsuccessful.
>
> What are the rules in France for turning land you own into an
>airstrip?
>
> Could our French colleagues let us know? Perhaps there is some
>official route to take?
>
> (PS, I'm aware of the airpark schemes in France but don't want to go
>that route due to annual cost)
>
> ?
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Clive Sutton
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415810#415810
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Admin.
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Using French land as an airfield? |
"As I understand it, as a UK landowner you can use (land your a/c) your own land
for 30 (specifically 28 days) days/yr without getting planning permission. If
a farmer grants permissions for that to you (or as a flying Farmer uses it himself),
no need for planning permission. More than 30 days and you need a planning
application - and you can guess how likely getting that granted that is
going to be . . ."
In the UK, if the landowner keeps a log of all aircraft movements (his own and
others) for 10 years and the local council doesn't get complaints during that
period, the landowner can then apply for change of land use. The council can't
refuse, but of course different (probably higher) rates will apply.
On each of the 28 days throughout any year, there can be many aircraft take-offs
and landings involving many different aircraft, but each such day of multiple
movements would still only count as one day. Better have friendly neighbours,
though.
Sorry, I can't help with France.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415820#415820
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Using French land as an airfield? |
Sounds like (thanks to a recent Federal supreme court decision) that
landowners here in Canada have it very good: All one needs to to do is land
a plane on your field, and voila! you have an instant unregistered
aerodrome which is regulated under Federal law - and the local municipality
can't do a darn thing about it (assuming your field approaches does not
violate minimums over populated areas). The only recourse they have is to
tax it as a commercial enterprise if they can justify the classification.
Now..... I just need to win the lottery so I can afford to purchase my
100acres ;-)
Cheers,
Pete
A239
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 10:59 AM, jonathanmilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
> jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
>
> "As I understand it, as a UK landowner you can use (land your a/c) your
> own land for 30 (specifically 28 days) days/yr without getting planning
> permission. If a farmer grants permissions for that to you (or as a flying
> Farmer uses it himself), no need for planning permission. More than 30 days
> and you need a planning application - and you can guess how likely getting
> that granted that is going to be . . ."
>
> In the UK, if the landowner keeps a log of all aircraft movements (his own
> and others) for 10 years and the local council doesn't get complaints
> during that period, the landowner can then apply for change of land use.
> The council can't refuse, but of course different (probably higher) rates
> will apply.
>
> On each of the 28 days throughout any year, there can be many aircraft
> take-offs and landings involving many different aircraft, but each such day
> of multiple movements would still only count as one day. Better have
> friendly neighbours, though.
>
> Sorry, I can't help with France.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415820#415820
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Using French land as an airfield? |
Hi Clive,
I lived in Brittany for 10 years my experience is such
that the planning permission for almost anything is more relaxed than here
in the U.K. Tip, introduce yourself to the local Maire and keep him/her on
your social list and you can't go wrong.
Best wishes
Jim
G-BWEG
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Clives email <clive.maf@googlemail.com>wrote:
> clive.maf@googlemail.com>
>
> Hi David,
>
> I hope all well and Happy Christmas
>
> Yes, maybe my wording could be better; As I understand it, as a UK
> landowner you can use (land your a/c) your own land for 30 (specifically 28
> days) days/yr without getting planning permission. If a farmer grants
> permissions for that to you (or as a flying Farmer uses it himself), no
> need for planning permission. More than 30 days and you need a planning
> application - and you can guess how likely getting that granted that is
> going to be . . .
>
> More here;
> http://www.uklanddirectory.org.uk/land-usage.asp
>
> regards,
>
>
> Clive.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce
> Sent: 18 December 2013 12:27
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Using French land as an airfield?
>
> --> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> Clive, It has no relevance to your query, but I thought the UK rule was
> something like you can land a plane in a farmer's field for up to 30 times
> in any month without needing to have planning permission as an airfield.
> Regards, David
>
>
> On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 03:43:40 -0800
> "gtagr" <clive.maf@googlemail.com> wrote:
> ><clive.maf@googlemail.com>
> >
> >Friends,
> >
> > I've an ambition to buy land in France and build a house.
> >
> > In the UK we have a '30-day rule' that says you can use any land you
> >own for any use (including an airfield) providing you use it for not
> >more than 30 days a year for that purpose. If you do, you'd need
> >planning permission
> >- which would be tortuous and in the case of an airfield application,
> >almost certainly unsuccessful.
> >
> > What are the rules in France for turning land you own into an
> >airstrip?
> >
> > Could our French colleagues let us know? Perhaps there is some
> >official route to take?
> >
> > (PS, I'm aware of the airpark schemes in France but don't want to go
> >that route due to annual cost)
> >
> > ?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Clive Sutton
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415810#415810
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Admin.
> >Un/Subscription,
> >Forums!
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Static in fuel system |
I hate to revive this discussion once again, but I am still trying to
figure out the static discharge mechanisms in the Europa fuel system.
I recall at least two Europas that were consumed by static induced
fuel fire. Was there any final report regarding these incidents, so
that we can learn from these?
Europa's fuel tank and the cobra inlet are nonconductive plastic. Even
the filler neck is non conductive (at first I thought this was
aluminum, but I verified that it was actually an insulator). I suppose
a brush-like discharge is possible from highly charged nonconductive
surfaces, but I doubt we can pour fuel into this aircraft at rates
that will induces such high charge densities.
The other possibility is a discharge between the person and the
fuselage due to charge generated during flight due to air flow. But
again, this would be more like a brush discharge than a spark, and
would have to occur immediately after landing.
Most of the static discharge accidents I have read about have occurred
when the person touches the metal fuel nozzle.
I guess my question is, since there are no metal parts in the Europa
fueling system upstream of the tank, where does this spark occur to
cause ignition?
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Static in fuel system |
I knew the owners of one of the fire victims (aircraft wsant written off) I
think the static discharge was=0Abetween the metal tank breather on top of
the Classic feselage and the metal funnel used to fill the tank.=0AThe air
rushes up the breather plastic tube and carries droplets in it picking up
static charge on the way.=0AThe discharge near the end of the filling cycle
was to the metal funnel, earthed by the man's hand.=0AIt was a dry hot day
and aircraft had flown two hours.=0AI always recommend breath tube is bigg
er, 3/8" aluminum and grounded. Touching it with a hand will help.=0AGraham
=0AThe tank can be filled quicker with the bigger breather.=0AFor the XS br
eather goes into the top of the cobra with a separate breather higher up, f
uel splatter goes=0Aback into the tank.=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________
________=0A From: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@gmail.com>=0ATo: Europa List <
europa-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Wednesday, 18 December 2013, 23:52=0ASu
bject: Europa-List: Static in fuel system=0A =0A=0A--> Europa-List message
posted by: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@gmail.com>=0A=0AI hate to revive this
discussion once again, but I am still trying to=0Afigure out the static di
scharge mechanisms in the Europa fuel system.=0AI recall at least two Europ
as that were consumed by static induced=0Afuel fire. Was there any final re
port regarding these incidents, so=0Athat we can learn from these?=0A=0AEur
opa's fuel tank and the cobra inlet are nonconductive plastic. Even=0Athe f
iller neck is non conductive (at first I thought this was=0Aaluminum, but I
verified that it was actually an insulator). I suppose=0Aa brush-like disc
harge is possible from highly charged nonconductive=0Asurfaces, but I doubt
we can pour fuel into this aircraft at rates=0Athat will induces such high
charge densities.=0A=0AThe other possibility is a discharge between the pe
rson and the=0Afuselage due to charge generated during flight due to air fl
ow. But=0Aagain, this would be more like a brush discharge than a spark, an
d=0Awould have to occur immediately after landing.=0A=0AMost of the static
discharge accidents I have read about have occurred=0Awhen the person touch
es the metal fuel nozzle.=0A=0AI guess my question is, since there are no m
etal parts in the Europa=0Afueling system upstream of the tank, where does
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List
=========================0A
=====================
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Static in fuel system |
I see. I forgot about the stainless vent tube (I haven't got to that
stage yet). Mine is an XS, and the vent still goes to the top of the
fuselage.
So if the that piece of metal tube is a weak link, why not just
replace it with a rigid plastic tube?
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 7:59 PM, GRAHAM SINGLETON
<grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:
> I knew the owners of one of the fire victims (aircraft wsant written off) I
> think the static discharge was
> between the metal tank breather on top of the Classic feselage and the metal
> funnel used to fill the tank.
> The air rushes up the breather plastic tube and carries droplets in it
> picking up static charge on the way.
> The discharge near the end of the filling cycle was to the metal funnel,
> earthed by the man's hand.
> It was a dry hot day and aircraft had flown two hours.
> I always recommend breath tube is bigger, 3/8" aluminum and grounded.
> Touching it with a hand will help.
> Graham
> The tank can be filled quicker with the bigger breather.
> For the XS breather goes into the top of the cobra with a separate breather
> higher up, fuel splatter goes
> back into the tank.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@gmail.com>
> To: Europa List <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 18 December 2013, 23:52
> Subject: Europa-List: Static in fuel system
>
>
> I hate to revive this discussion once again, but I am still trying to
> figure out the static discharge mechanisms in the Europa fuel system.
> I recall at least two Europas that were consumed by static induced
> fuel fire. Was there any final report regarding these incidents, so
> that we can learn from these?
>
> Europa's fuel tank and the cobra inlet are nonconductive plastic. Even
> the filler neck is non conductive (at first I thought this was
> aluminum, but I verified that it was actually an insulator). I suppose
> a brush-like discharge is possible from highly charged nonconductive
> surfaces, but I doubt we can pour fuel into this aircraft at rates
> that will induces such high charge densities.
>
> The other possibility is a discharge between the person and the
> fuselage due to charge generated during flight due to air flow. But
> again, this would be more like a brush discharge than a spark, and
> would have to occur immediately after landing.
>
> Most of the static discharge accidents I have read about have occurred
> when the person touches the metal fuel nozzle.
>
> I guess my question is, since there are no metal parts in the Europa
> fueling system upstream of the tank, where does this spark; http:
> -Mat Use ropa-List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
> http://foru=====================
>
>
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