Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:22 AM - Re: Static in fuel system (Bob Harrison)
2. 12:24 AM - Re: Using French land as an airfield? (Remi Guerner)
3. 12:58 AM - Re: Re: Using French land as an airfield? (Clive Sutton)
4. 05:26 AM - Re: Re: Using French land as an airfield? (Clive Sutton)
5. 09:54 AM - Re: Using French land as an airfield? (Remi Guerner)
6. 02:11 PM - Re: FlightDEK D180 (ploucandco)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Static in fuel system |
Hi! Andrew,
So to eliminate the metal tubes and static weak link delete the metal tubes
and use an overflow catch bottle (with a return to tank plastic pipe link)
and carry the requirement for the vent over the top of the cabin down to
exit at the port side flap hinge in other words as far as reasonably
possible from the filler.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan
Sent: 19 December 2013 02:57
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Static in fuel system
I see. I forgot about the stainless vent tube (I haven't got to that stage
yet). Mine is an XS, and the vent still goes to the top of the fuselage.
So if the that piece of metal tube is a weak link, why not just replace it
with a rigid plastic tube?
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 7:59 PM, GRAHAM SINGLETON
<grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote:
> I knew the owners of one of the fire victims (aircraft wsant written
> off) I think the static discharge was between the metal tank breather
> on top of the Classic feselage and the metal funnel used to fill the
> tank.
> The air rushes up the breather plastic tube and carries droplets in it
> picking up static charge on the way.
> The discharge near the end of the filling cycle was to the metal
> funnel, earthed by the man's hand.
> It was a dry hot day and aircraft had flown two hours.
> I always recommend breath tube is bigger, 3/8" aluminum and grounded.
> Touching it with a hand will help.
> Graham
> The tank can be filled quicker with the bigger breather.
> For the XS breather goes into the top of the cobra with a separate
> breather higher up, fuel splatter goes back into the tank.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@gmail.com>
> To: Europa List <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, 18 December 2013, 23:52
> Subject: Europa-List: Static in fuel system
>
> --> <asarangan@gmail.com>
>
> I hate to revive this discussion once again, but I am still trying to
> figure out the static discharge mechanisms in the Europa fuel system.
> I recall at least two Europas that were consumed by static induced
> fuel fire. Was there any final report regarding these incidents, so
> that we can learn from these?
>
> Europa's fuel tank and the cobra inlet are nonconductive plastic. Even
> the filler neck is non conductive (at first I thought this was
> aluminum, but I verified that it was actually an insulator). I suppose
> a brush-like discharge is possible from highly charged nonconductive
> surfaces, but I doubt we can pour fuel into this aircraft at rates
> that will induces such high charge densities.
>
> The other possibility is a discharge between the person and the
> fuselage due to charge generated during flight due to air flow. But
> again, this would be more like a brush discharge than a spark, and
> would have to occur immediately after landing.
>
> Most of the static discharge accidents I have read about have occurred
> when the person touches the metal fuel nozzle.
>
> I guess my question is, since there are no metal parts in the Europa
> fueling system upstream of the tank, where does this spark; http:
> -Mat Use ropa-List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
> http://foru=====================
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Using French land as an airfield? |
Clive,
There is no such 28 day rule in France. If you want to use your own land as an
airstrip, there are two possibilities: if you are flying a ULM (similar to the
UK Microlight category) you can land in your backyard all year round without
asking permission to anybody. Obviously the Europa is not in this category. As
an aircraft, it can land only on a registered airfield. So the way to go is to
get your field approved as a private airfield. I did some research and found
the attached document. Sorry it is in french. It looks very simple but I believe
it is more difficult in reality.
Remi
F-PGKL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415845#415845
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/creation_ad_priv_142.doc
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Using French land as an airfield? |
Hello Remi,
Many thanks for this - I'll study
Best regards,
Clive.
On 19 December 2013 08:24, Remi Guerner <air.guerner@orange.fr> wrote:
>
> Clive,
> There is no such 28 day rule in France. If you want to use your own land
> as an airstrip, there are two possibilities: if you are flying a ULM
> (similar to the UK Microlight category) you can land in your backyard all
> year round without asking permission to anybody. Obviously the Europa is
> not in this category. As an aircraft, it can land only on a registered
> airfield. So the way to go is to get your field approved as a private
> airfield. I did some research and found the attached document. Sorry it is
> in french. It looks very simple but I believe it is more difficult in
> reality.
> Remi
> F-PGKL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415845#415845
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/creation_ad_priv_142.doc
>
>
--
Clive Sutton, CEng
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Using French land as an airfield? |
Hello again Remi,
I took the liberty of using google translate to translate that document
into English - for the benefit of board readers. A few key points emerge
for me:
1) Private aerodromes under French jurisdiction are for personal use only,
cannot be marked, or use charged for, in any way.
2) Cannot be used until physical preparation and authorisation
documentation are completed
3) Prefect of the department (i assume this means eg of department 56 -
Morbihan) can by exception also use it in the public interest
4) Once use is authorised, fixed conditions and limitations will apply
Seems a somewhat better arrangement than in the UK - though no idea how
long the application to use might take to get processed/authorised
regards,
Clive.
"CHAPTER III: AERODROMES A PRIVATE USE .
Version in force at December 19, 2013
Article D233 -1
Aerodromes are considered private use aerodromes by a natural or legal
person in private law for his own benefit or that of its employees and
guests use.
Article D233 -2
The application for authorization is submitted in quadruplicate to the
prefect of the department in which the aerodrome is located , accompanied
by a file whose composition will be determined by ministerial decree.
It is issued receipt of the request.
The decision to grant or refuse the prefect is taken by unmotivated after
the official notice of the territorially competent civil aviation stopped.
It must take place within thirty days after the issuance of the receipt,
unless the warden is required to refer the Minister for Civil Aviation , in
accordance with Article D. 233-3 . In this case, the time limit for its
decision prefect is extended to ninety days .
If the prefect did not communicate its decision within the prescribed
period, the authorization shall be deemed granted.
The prefect reports to the Minister responsible for civil aviation
authorizations granted by sending a copy of the application and, where
applicable, the authorization order .
Article D233 -3
Orders of the Minister of Civil Aviation taken in agreement with the
Minister of the Interior , the Minister of armies and the Minister of
Economy and Finance shall designate the areas within which the creation of
an aerodrome private use must be subject to the prior approval of the
Minister responsible for civil aviation.
Article D233 -4
Airfields for private use may not be marked or identified .
If the authorization holder wishes to install aids to air , visual or radio
or any other device aeronautical telecommunication navigation , it is
required to take the approval of the Minister of Civil Aviation and comply
with regulations in force, both for the installation of these aids and
devices for their use.
Article D233 -5
People who have been authorized to create an airfield for private use can
use it when it is finished, without having to seek authorization for
placing in service . However, they must inform the prefect to allow the
exercise of control under section D. 211-4 .
Article D233 -6
The decree authorizing the creation of the aerodrome fixed the conditions
under which it will be used. The order may specify that the aerodrome
including temporary or seasonal use or for permanent airfields that the use
will be exceptionally closed some days.
Article D233 -7
It is forbidden for people who have created an airfield for private use to
receive any remuneration for the use of their aerodrome by the people they
admit to using them.
Article D233 -8
The prefect may, with the consent of the owner , allow the exceptional use
of an airfield for private use developments aircraft constituting a public
event regularly authorized under Article R. 131-3 .
If the airport has not previously been the subject of an authorization, the
order authorizing its use will be taken after consultation with the staff
of the territorially competent civil aviation and will authorize for a
limited period than the event."
On 19 December 2013 08:24, Remi Guerner <air.guerner@orange.fr> wrote:
>
> Clive,
> There is no such 28 day rule in France. If you want to use your own land
> as an airstrip, there are two possibilities: if you are flying a ULM
> (similar to the UK Microlight category) you can land in your backyard all
> year round without asking permission to anybody. Obviously the Europa is
> not in this category. As an aircraft, it can land only on a registered
> airfield. So the way to go is to get your field approved as a private
> airfield. I did some research and found the attached document. Sorry it is
> in french. It looks very simple but I believe it is more difficult in
> reality.
> Remi
> F-PGKL
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415845#415845
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/creation_ad_priv_142.doc
>
>
--
Clive Sutton, CEng
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Using French land as an airfield? |
Clive,
I will visit you with my Europa when the field is approved, provided you give me
permission!
Remi
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415865#415865
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: FlightDEK D180 |
Jeroen, the D180 is certainly a very relevant choice as EFIS/EMS. It is still produced
in quantities and I see plenty of planes (typically being produced in
Central/East Europe) being sold with this one. So you can't be wrong in installing
one.
At the same time, it is based on a 10 years old product architecture. For sure,
Dynon will still support it for many years as it is still a very popular product.
But don't expect anymore updates as they fixed their last annoying bug some
months ago.
If you could afford the price difference, you should go with Skyview. It is a completely
modern system with capabilities being expanded on regular basis (e.g.
recently they added European VFR approach plates). Also, you could have the
benefit of a cheaper mode S transponder and an advanced autopilot with an integrated
gps map. The only item that Dynon is missing today for European pilots
is a 8.33Mhz radio at a good price. I am sure that Dynon understands that and
will come with a solution in a reasonable timeframe.
Bob is right that Grand Rapid also produce very good piece of equipment. But these
are being sold for the huge majority on the US market. And you want to have
a EU local dealer if you want to ship any equipment back (and that will certainly
happen if you consider a lifetime of more than 10 years). Dynon has 2 major
dealers in EU who can provide local support or ship your equipment back to
the US for the price of sending it to the UK or to CZ.
There are other players in this market, like MGL or TL-elektronic. The MGL system
has certainly tremendous capabilities but this company seems to lack the level
of customer orientation (e.g. draft manuals) that is required to become a
real market leader. TL-elektronic and some others are marginal in terms of quantities
being sold.
Then there is the Garmin gorilla who recently entered the experimental market with
a dump on the prices for their G3X system. It is Garmin quality with Garmin
certified products as base. You can't go wrong with going with them. But Garmin
is a gorilla that has partnership with other gorillas like Jeppesen. Look
at the price difference between a yearly subscription for skyview with a pocketfms
database and a Garmin G3X with Jeppesen. Not sure if that is inline with
the Europa philosophy.
Good luck with your decision. This is a crucial one as you will spend all your
Europa flying time behind this system.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415876#415876
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