---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/27/14: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:00 PM - Mod 11354 Control lock (spcialeffects) 2. 01:21 PM - Re: Cowl mods for front belt driven alternator (Greg Fuchs) 3. 01:56 PM - Re: Cowl mods for front belt driven alternator (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 4. 02:13 PM - Re: Cowl mods for front belt driven alternator (Greg Fuchs) 5. 02:23 PM - Re: Cowl mods for front belt driven alternator (Greg Fuchs) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:36 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Mod 11354 Control lock From: "spcialeffects" Hi all. Has anyone carried out this mod? If so could you please take a snap shot of it and add some dimension to it for me so i can forward it to my fabricator please. Many thanks Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417695#417695 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:21:20 PM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cowl mods for front belt driven alternator Hi Paul, THANKS! Wow, that's quite a detailed load analysis. I can see why you needed it. It seems that the available Mega-micro (heehee) Watts available from the Rotax generator are being well used in most modes of flight. I especially like the slight rest it gets during cruise, ensuring it can top off the batteries....and possibly lowering the chance of a failure during this phase of flight. Looking at the spreadsheet, I can't help but wonder if there is a need (or at least used to be..before the changes) for a slightly bigger battery capacity to help handle the load when the plane isn't at high rpm? Of course, experience is what matters. If you can recall, what battery size is working for you? One side note: Over a decade ago, in order to save a few $$, I replaced the normal extra-capacity battery on my car (they are quite a bit larger than the normal size), with one that was smaller...and it kept leaving me stranded during the winter when running the accessories like fan, electric window heaters, etc. Granted, I was running the car at idle for periods of about a half hour, to try to keep warm. I replaced it back to the beefier battery rather quickly, and all starting problems went away. Of course, there is no penalty of bigger batteries in a ground-bound vehicle and only a last resort in an airplane. :) Hmm.. some HAVE paid more attention to the weight during the build, and still end up bloated.. 860 is not too bad, IMO. I'll be trying to use lower power items, such as external LED lights and EFIS. Since none of them pass Burt Rutans qualification of staying in the air when tossed there, I will now be adding helium-balloon ballast to the ship to compensate for it. :) Thanks again for the detail, Greg -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul McAllister Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:42 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cowl mods for front belt driven alternator Greg, I echo David's thoughts on this. With the right design choices it is easy to stay well within the electrical capacity of the standard Rotax. Modern avionics, EFIS, LED position lights & strobes do not draw much current. Attached is the load analysis I did for my aircraft in 2004. I have not updated it since then but LED strobes, landing lights and low draw current contactors make it possible to have an even lower electrical load during cruise. My 914 XS + Airmaster came in at 860 lb. Over the years I have taken weight out by removing the vacuum instrument system and small tweaks in other area's but I sure wish I had paid much more attention to this during the build. My favorite comment from Burt Rutan was, "If you are thinking of putting something on your airplane, first toss it in the air. If it doesn't stay there by itself then don't put it on." Cheers, Paul ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:50 PM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cowl mods for front belt driven alternator The lightest Mono I know of was less than 750lbs. A showroom finish must we igh 20 lbs=0Aat least and adds nothing to performance.=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________=0A From: Greg Fuchs =0A=0AHmm.. some HAVE paid more attention to the weight during th e build, and=0Astill end up bloated.. 860 is not too bad, IMO.=0A=0AI'll be trying to use lower power items, such as external LED lights and=0AEFIS. S ince none of them pass Burt Rutans qualification of staying in the=0Aair wh en tossed there, I will now be adding helium-balloon ballast to the=0Aship to compensate for it. :)=0A=0AThanks again for the detail,=0AGreg- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:13:19 PM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cowl mods for front belt driven alternator Hi Bud, Time will tell about that getting carried away part, hahaha. I absolutely figured you had a mold for the cowl! I looked in anticipation, but could not find the info on Jerry Hopes belt drive alternator. Perhaps I am doing something wrong, but would certainly like to find it. A Garmin SL30 (maybe someday a 430 or 530) and an EFIS to show its output has long been on my wish list, along with a HID landing light (lower power draw, higher intensity light output). I looked at a video on You|ube that was demo-ing that flashlight and must say WOW. It has an amazing output. Imagine that one would work just great as a Europa landing light. Might have to give the HID lights another thought. :) Thanks for the informative Ramblings, Greg _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 9:01 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cowl mods for front belt driven alternator Greg, I hope you don't get too carried away. Every ounce you add, or increase to the frontal area, the more performance you loose. To see an example of one of my cowl mods, look at Jerry Hope's 914 with belt drive alternator. (www.customflightcreations.com click on accessories and tips.) I cut the front of the cowl off, and Jerry and I made a floppy glass cover then began the task of filling, smoothing, making a mirror image for the other side and continuously checking for clearance for the belt and pulley. I made a mold of the front early on and it is rough. I should have cleaned it up. The belt drive alternator really does deliver the amps. Note in the photo, you can see the alternator is right up against the intake opening. It also extends the cowl forward about 1/8-1/4 inch because of the pulley. I still believe my Europa simple VFR cruiser is the best idea. All LEDs, (including the feeble Kuntzelman landing light at .6 amp), no pitot heat, all EFIS and light draw radio/transponder, keeps my amps in check. Even with all my toys running, I do not draw over 15 amps until I key the mic button. If I do go on to do a light IFR (health permitting) I'll add a Garming Nav Com like the SL30, and purchase a simple pitot heat (like Angus Aviation/Dynon). I'll add an Aux battery and an Alternator to the back of the gearbox to power the pitot heat and a proper landing light for night. (Aveo has an LED unit, which is expensive, but bright. I still would prefer an HID light, however check out the new 13000 Lumen flashlights by Trusfire.) The aux battery and alternator will most likely be similar to the B&Cs small unit which will keep the aux battery charged but only have enough battery life for about 30 minutes at idle for the HID/or LED light and supply the pitot heat for just the time necessary to penetrate a thin deck. Just the ramblings of an experimenter. Regards, Bud _____ From: gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net Subject: Europa-List: Cowl mods for front belt driven alternator >Perhaps in the situation above, it would be prudent for a 914 builder (914 can draw 11 amps on its own with both pumps running) to consider a belt driven ?? >alternator of 40 amps, and simply redo the cowl front and keep the Rotax as a backup in case of belt failure. Bud, or those that know, At some point, or future avionics upgrade, my ship will likely need the extra Watts. Would you care to supply a 'teaser' on the making of the cowl mod? I am still waiting for my FF package, so don't yet have a handle on how it integrates with the prop flange, but does the front of the cowl terminate just behind the prop flange, on the smaller-radius drive tube? Are the belt-driven alternator components in front of the cowl then, requiring the cowl front face to be opened up and added to? Is this considered an extensive change? Regards, Greg _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 9:13 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Ducati rectifier/regulators ..... If you are an amp zealot, but still want an aux fuel pump, pitot heat, 100 watt landing light, strobes, heavy draw radio (Garmin 430 type), Aux Radio, Mode S transponder continuously working, autopilot, stereo high quality music system, external power plugs for our phones, I-pads and inflight video system, the Rotax charging system is not going to hack it. Perhaps in the situation above, it would be prudent for a 914 builder (914 can draw 11 amps on its own with both pumps running) to consider a belt driven alternator of 40 amps, and simply redo the cowl front and keep the Rotax as a backup in case of belt failure. If you build a 912S airplane with all LED lighting, Garmin 255 or Becker Com, Simple digital Transponder, Aux Boost, and maybe an autopilot for cruise only and a paper map, then the Rotax / Ducati should be fine. The GR6 or SH may be better and longer lasting to boot. In my opinion the Rotax system can't put out much more than 15 amps or so and as the current increases, the voltage output starts to diminish (at least it does in my poor old airplane) . Just my thoughts. Bud > Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 16:40:25 +0100 > From: jan_de_jong@casema.nl > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Ducati rectifier/regulators > > > Re two-phase bridge rectifier/regulator. > The 2 thyristors in the rectifier bridge do not short the AC input or > "dump" anything. > On the contrary, they disconnect the DC output from the AC input when > the output voltage threatens to exceed the set voltage. > All output current passes through one branch of one diode and one > thyristor in series half the time and through the other identical branch > also half the time. > Heat development is proportional to the output current and the voltage > drop across a branch. > Voltage drops increase somewhat with current, so heat development > increases more than linearly with output current. > In the Ducati device the diode is reportedly a MR2510 pill (typically > 0.75V at 10A, 0.8V at 20A), the thyristor can be a 2N6504 (typically > 1.1V at 10A, 1.3V at 20A). > So at 10A the two branches of the bridge are each expected to generate > 0.5 x (7.5 + 11) = 9.25W (total 18.5W) of heat. > And at 20A the two branches of the bridge are each expected to generate > 0.5 x (16 + 26) = 21W (total 42W) of heat. > > ( > a failure mode for the Ducati device is reportedly the loss of > continuity of a diode pill attachment through thermal cycling; fitting > external parallel diodes has been proposed as a solution; replacing the > whole device seems more sensible > ) > > Cheers, > Jan de Jong > &g====================== &g====== > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ========== target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:41 PM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cowl mods for front belt driven alternator Yes, I think I read somewhere (maybe here), that one light mist coat and one full coat of paint should do it, and save some weight. _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 1:53 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cowl mods for front belt driven alternator The lightest Mono I know of was less than 750lbs. A showroom finish must weigh 20 lbs at least and adds nothing to performance. Graham _____ From: Greg Fuchs Hmm.. some HAVE paid more attention to the weight during the build, and still end up bloated.. 860 is not too bad, IMO. I'll be trying to use lower power items, such as external LED lights and EFIS. Since none of them pass Burt Rutans qualification of staying in the air when tossed there, I will now be adding helium-balloon ballast to the ship to compensate for it. :) Thanks again for the detail, Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.