---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/14/14: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:53 AM - 914 battery location. (Tony Renshaw) 2. 08:36 AM - Re: 914 battery location. (rparigoris) 3. 09:23 AM - Re: 914 battery location. (richard) 4. 12:33 PM - Re: 914 battery location. (Tony Renshaw) 5. 01:18 PM - Re: 914 battery location. (David Joyce) 6. 02:07 PM - FK fairings...............input requested. (Tony Renshaw) 7. 11:55 PM - Re: FK fairings...............input requested. (David Joyce) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:53:36 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: 914 battery location. From: Tony Renshaw Gidday, In the process of deciding if my 914 powered conventional undercarriage Taildragger should or will need the battery to go down the back, beside the tail plane counterbalance containment tower. If not, I can use the mount that I have built back there for a Trigg transponder remote unit mount. Also, in the not too distant future if I decide on putting the battery back there, well I'll need to run big cabling too before my top goes on, hopefully mid year. Any thought much appreciated. Tony Renshaw Sydney Aussie Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:07 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: 914 battery location. From: "rparigoris" Hi Tony My XS mono has a 914. It also has a Airmaster CS prop and second B+C alternator. On a mono ground handling is much improved if you are not near the forward CG. I chose to put a Odyssey PC545 way aft mounted: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=30710 with #4 copper clad aluminium wire. I calculated and you save just about one pound using #4 copper clad aluminium over #4 copper. One downside to aluminium clad wire is it work hardens very easy and the strands are larger than #4 tefzel wire. Thus bend it and it breaks a lot easier. Think gentle bends and good strain relief. I also added weight to the front of my stabilators that will reduce load to the drive pins and weight required on the mass balance arm by ~ 15%. Thus 3 pounds of weight only cost me 2.2 pounds. This negates needing to add dead weight to the sternpost. Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418698#418698 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:18 AM PST US From: "richard" Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 battery location. Hi Tony, do as much as you can before you glue the top on that's forward and aft , I spent a month doing the interior fitting carpet, side panels etc and putting the head lining in was an absolute bugger. I have my battery fitted in the back under the luggage floor on starboard side with Trigg transponder on the port. Access to both is important and easy. I used 4 gauge wire to the firewall, and have no problems so far. Best of luck Richard -----Original Message----- From: Tony Renshaw Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 11:52 AM Subject: Europa-List: 914 battery location. Gidday, In the process of deciding if my 914 powered conventional undercarriage Taildragger should or will need the battery to go down the back, beside the tail plane counterbalance containment tower. If not, I can use the mount that I have built back there for a Trigg transponder remote unit mount. Also, in the not too distant future if I decide on putting the battery back there, well I'll need to run big cabling too before my top goes on, hopefully mid year. Any thought much appreciated. Tony Renshaw Sydney Aussie Sent from my iPad ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:16 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 battery location. Hi Richard, Thanks for that. I have made a shelf for the battery under the Stbd floor stowage of the baggage bay, if I commit to it, but had not thought of needing access to the transponder unit so was going to keep it down the back with the antenna, and keep the high power cable run short between antenna and unit. Re the battery, it seems like I either consider a lead acid sealed cell battery like my Odyssey PC 680 at 7 kg on the pax footwell, or under baggage bay floor, or I could use a Lithium Polymer Haijiu at less tha 1 kg up front on the footwell. Because I have the 914 and electric fuel pumps, I could even have a dual battery setup at less than 2 kg! The Haijiu another builder has used to crank his 912 S for 4 years. Regards Tony Renshaw Sydney Aussie Sent from my iPad > On 15 Feb 2014, at 4:22 am, "richard" wrote: > > > Hi Tony, do as much as you can before you glue the top on that's forward and aft , I spent a month doing the interior fitting carpet, side panels etc and putting the head lining in was an absolute bugger. > I have my battery fitted in the back under the luggage floor on starboard side with Trigg transponder on the port. Access to both is important and easy. I used 4 gauge wire to the firewall, and have no problems so far. > Best of luck > Richard > > -----Original Message----- From: Tony Renshaw > Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 11:52 AM > To: > Subject: Europa-List: 914 battery location. > > > Gidday, > In the process of deciding if my 914 powered conventional undercarriage Taildragger should or will need the battery to go down the back, beside the tail plane counterbalance containment tower. If not, I can use the mount that I have built back there for a Trigg transponder remote unit mount. Also, in the not too distant future if I decide on putting the battery back there, well I'll need to run big cabling too before my top goes on, hopefully mid year. Any thought much appreciated. > Tony Renshaw > Sydney Aussie > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:18:58 PM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 battery location. Tony, Although I agree entirely with doing as much as you sensibly can before sticking the lid on, I would not include battery fittings in this. It is more convenient by far and saves a deal of weight if your battery can be fitted forward (i.e. against the firewall above passenger feet, where it needs only minimal strapping & structure to fix it). The notion of delibrately looking to have an aft C of G seems to me misguided - the further aft the more readily a plane will spin. Where you need your C of G to be is where any possible loading ofsmall pilot/big pilots; full fuel/no fuel; full luggage/no luggage still leaves within limits. I would advise leaving deciding on battery location until you ve done a trial weighing with other key components including paint completed. By all means work out how you will run wiring and solidly fix battery in either location, but do not commit. For what it is worth my mono/914/Woodcomp wobbly prop has worked out extremely well with a forward battery. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 07:31:57 +1100 Tony Renshaw wrote: > > > Hi Richard, > Thanks for that. I have made a shelf for the battery >under the Stbd floor stowage of the baggage bay, if I >commit to it, but had not thought of needing access to >the transponder unit so was going to keep it down the >back with the antenna, and keep the high power cable run >short between antenna and unit. Re the battery, it seems >like I either consider a lead acid sealed cell battery >like my Odyssey PC 680 at 7 kg on the pax footwell, or >under baggage bay floor, or I could use a Lithium Polymer >Haijiu at less tha 1 kg up front on the footwell. Because >I have the 914 and electric fuel pumps, I could even have >a dual battery setup at less than 2 kg! The Haijiu >another builder has used to crank his 912 S for 4 years. > Regards > Tony Renshaw > Sydney Aussie > > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 15 Feb 2014, at 4:22 am, "richard" >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Tony, do as much as you can before you glue the top >>on that's forward and aft , I spent a month doing the >>interior fitting carpet, side panels etc and putting the >>head lining in was an absolute bugger. >> I have my battery fitted in the back under the luggage >>floor on starboard side with Trigg transponder on the >>port. Access to both is important and easy. I used 4 >>gauge wire to the firewall, and have no problems so far. >> Best of luck >> Richard >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Tony Renshaw >> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 11:52 AM >> To: >> Subject: Europa-List: 914 battery location. >> >> >> >> Gidday, >> In the process of deciding if my 914 powered >>conventional undercarriage Taildragger should or will >>need the battery to go down the back, beside the tail >>plane counterbalance containment tower. If not, I can use >>the mount that I have built back there for a Trigg >>transponder remote unit mount. Also, in the not too >>distant future if I decide on putting the battery back >>there, well I'll need to run big cabling too before my >>top goes on, hopefully mid year. Any thought much >>appreciated. >> Tony Renshaw >> Sydney Aussie >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >> >> >> >> > > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:28 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: FK fairings...............input requested. Gidday, Some of you may recognise these beautiful fairings of Fred Kleins, the Spitfire mod I call it. Freds instructions can be modified of course, and I=92ve done that by keeping them complete as one piece, and making them removable with a few minutes and a spanner. I am interested in input on what people think of the aerodynamic impact of me doing it this way though, whereas Fred kept the aerodynamic efficiency of the top section of the fairing by splitting it such that half stays on the fuse, half on wing an half on flap. This means that half the fairing articulates as the flap does, which means it has half the impact. I expect I will have less root lift obviously, and more drag, however I hear that the aircraft needs more drag, so I=92ll certainly get that. I have a little clamshell speed brake here, and possibly I might have a greater load on my flaps due to the drag, but the air can also get under the outer portion of the fairing and mightn=92t be too disturbed except for the portion completely under the fairing. If I don=92t like this setup, or decide to change it during the build, I can cut them to follow FKs intent. Meanwhile I would like to request input from others. Thanks Regards Tony Renshaw Sydney Aussie. P.S. I am unsure if my photos will be embedded in the list bounced emails. I don=92t get other people=92s photos, which is irritating, and hope that others don=92t have this issue. P.S.S. or is it P.P.S. ? Thank you for the responses regarding my battery location question. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:55:38 PM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: FK fairings...............input requested. Tony, don't believe you want more drag! It is as welcome as a hole in the head! The major feature of the Europa is that it has low drag aerodynamics, so gives great performance in terms of speed for given horsepower or fuel usage. Admittedly slowing down a 'slippery' plane needs a bit of forethought but certainly not extra drag. I suspect the benefit of any change in the fairings will be aesthetic principally, as Don Dykin knew a bit about aerodynamics. One thing is clear, however, and that is that you should not have leaky joints allowing air to bleed from the hi pressure underneath the wing to the upper surface. If your joints are not air tight then taping them like every glider does will bring measurable performance benefits. Regards, David On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 09:05:46 +1100 Tony Renshaw wrote: > Gidday, > Some of you may recognise these beautiful fairings of >Fred Kleins, the Spitfire mod I call it. Freds >instructions can be modified of course, and Ive done >that by keeping them complete as one piece, and making >them removable with a few minutes and a spanner. I am >interested in input on what people think of the >aerodynamic impact of me doing it this way though, >whereas Fred kept the aerodynamic efficiency of the top >section of the fairing by splitting it such that half >stays on the fuse, half on wing an half on flap. This >means that half the fairing articulates as the flap does, >which means it has half the impact. I expect I will have >less root lift obviously, and more drag, however I hear >that the aircraft needs more drag, so Ill certainly get >that. I have a little clamshell speed brake here, and >possibly I might have a greater load on my flaps due to >the drag, but the air can also get under the outer >portion of the fairing and mightnt be too disturbed >except for the portion completely under the fairing. If I >dont like this setup, or decide to change it during the >build, I can cut them to follow FKs intent. Meanwhile I >would like to request input from others. Thanks > Regards > Tony Renshaw > Sydney Aussie. > > P.S. I am unsure if my photos will be embedded in the >list bounced emails. I dont get other peoples photos, >which is irritating, and hope that others dont have this >issue. > > P.S.S. or is it P.P.S. ? Thank you for the responses >regarding my battery location question. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.