Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:32 AM - Re: FK fairings...............input requested. (Tony Renshaw)
2. 08:49 AM - trailer for tri-gear wanted (g-fizy)
3. 01:06 PM - Re: trailer for tri-gear wanted (richard)
4. 01:14 PM - Re: Re: Motorglider wings (Bud Yerly)
5. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: Motorglider wings (Bud Yerly)
6. 08:29 PM - Battery Condition Indicator (Tony Renshaw)
7. 09:38 PM - Re: Battery Condition Indicator (Tim Ward)
8. 10:59 PM - Flight Time (db308)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: FK fairings...............input requested. |
Thanks David,
We=92ll see how these FK fairings work out. I am not sure how the
Spitfire flap articulates, but I suspect it will be the same as these
fairings i.e. the flap retracts into the fairing such that it creates a
small clamshell at the root end of the flap when it is extended. The
drag I mention is with them deployed, and in combination with the lift
created from the flap outboard of this shadowed part, would mean that
the flap would have a lesser impact than a completely clean flap, but
not by much. Any increase in drag is better at the root of the wing, so
if lift is killed here, it shouldn=92t matter that much. Thats my view
sofar, and I have made them removable so that if I am not happy with the
collective wisdom to strap them on for the first flight, I won=92t. I
can fly it clean to start with, which would be the wisest and then
extend the flaps and check out the flight characteristics at altitude.
Like I said, I don=92t expect anything untoward, but I don=92t actually
know so am keen for the input.
Also, I have extended my wing closeouts so I don=92t have any gap more
than 3 mm between the side of the fuse and the wings, without fairings.
So, if I don=92t like the flight characteristics of these fairings I can
remove them, on the airfield, and go fly without any fairings aft of the
spar on the top of the wing. It looks good the way it is without
fairings, and if it wasn=92t for the fact that there is interference
drag in that area, what I have underneath the fairing is gross overkill
for a good outcome. Don=92t ask me why I did it, to cover it up with a
fairing, but hey, you get carried away from time to time, or I do.
Regards
Tony Renshaw
Here is a picture of the port one, untrimmed, in plan view. Weighs about
1 kg +/-
On 15 Feb 2014, at 6:54 pm, David Joyce <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
wrote:
<davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> Tony, don't believe you want more drag! It is as welcome as a hole in
the head! The major feature of the Europa is that it has low drag
aerodynamics, so gives great performance in terms of speed for given
horsepower or fuel usage. Admittedly slowing down a 'slippery' plane
needs a bit of forethought but certainly not extra drag. I suspect the
benefit of any change in the fairings will be aesthetic principally, as
Don Dykin knew a bit about aerodynamics. One thing is clear, however,
and that is that you should not have leaky joints allowing air to bleed
from the hi pressure underneath the wing to the upper surface. If your
joints are not air tight then taping them like every glider does will
bring measurable performance benefits.
> Regards, David
>
>
> On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 09:05:46 +1100
> Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Gidday,
>> Some of you may recognise these beautiful fairings of Fred Kleins,
the Spitfire mod I call it. Freds instructions can be modified of
course, and I=92ve done that by keeping them complete as one piece, and
making them removable with a few minutes and a spanner. I am interested
in input on what people think of the aerodynamic impact of me doing it
this way though, whereas Fred kept the aerodynamic efficiency of the top
section of the fairing by splitting it such that half stays on the fuse,
half on wing an half on flap. This means that half the fairing
articulates as the flap does, which means it has half the impact. I
expect I will have less root lift obviously, and more drag, however I
hear that the aircraft needs more drag, so I=92ll certainly get that. I
have a little clamshell speed brake here, and possibly I might have a
greater load on my flaps due to the drag, but the air can also get under
the outer portion of the fairing and mightn=92t be too disturbed except
for the portion completely under the fairing. If I don=92t like this
setup, or decide to change it during the build, I can cut them to follow
FKs intent. Meanwhile I would like to request input from others. Thanks
>> Regards
>> Tony Renshaw
>> Sydney Aussie.
>> P.S. I am unsure if my photos will be embedded in the list bounced
emails. I don=92t get other people=92s photos, which is irritating, and
hope that others don=92t have this issue. P.S.S. or is it P.P.S. ?
Thank you for the responses regarding my battery location question.
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | trailer for tri-gear wanted |
hi tax man chasing me got to cut costs :-( has anyone got a tri-gear trailer for
sale ,any condition will do
regards jim
--------
owner g-fizy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418741#418741
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: trailer for tri-gear wanted |
Hi Jim, Yes I could, contact me off line at rcollings@talktalk.net
-----Original Message-----
From: g-fizy
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 4:48 PM
Subject: Europa-List: trailer for tri-gear wanted
hi tax man chasing me got to cut costs :-( has anyone got a tri-gear trailer
for sale ,any condition will do
regards jim
--------
owner g-fizy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418741#418741
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Motorglider wings |
Richard,
I would assume the mono with wheel retracted would be slightly better.
Those three sticks can generate a bit more drag even with wheel pants.
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Sky Mail<mailto:richard.churchill-coleman@sky.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Motorglider wings
Bud
Thanks for this info - I assume these were all at 1,370 lbs? I see
419PL is a trigear so I assume we can expect slightly better than -250
fpm from a mono set up at the same weight?
regards
Richard
Sent from my iPad
On 10 Feb 2014, at 01:23, Bud Yerly
<budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@msn.com>> wrote:
Just a note on sink rates in 419PL:
From my 1000 miles in the MG (copies in Europa Flyer or my website
www.customflightcreations.com<http://www.customflightcreations.com/>
accessories and tips look under techniques).
Sink Rates observed: Engine off, prop feathered from one test
flight:
90 Kts 400fpm
80Kts 300fpm
70 Kts 300 fpm
65 Kts 250 fpm
55 Kts 350 fpm trimmed nearly full aft.
Since Mod 78 makes the spar the same height from root spar to the
tip of the spar, it should not be a major problem normally. Careful
construction only thickens the spar about 1/16 of an inch. I am sorry
Dave, that your tank was put in too low. If the interior is not hard to
remove, consider moving the tank up. Yes its a mess but in a week it
could be done. I know it is easy for me to say, as one mistake and the
cost of a new tank gets figured in makes the job a real knuckle biter.
I do not do tech support for Europa any longer, but if you come to
Sun 'n Fun (Site 33 this year) you can look over what we have done to
ensure the Mod 78 spar clears controls, includes a spar cup/support for
rigging ease, and I'll show how to remove the crosslink bolts and add
countersunk screws which preserves all the structure. If you can't make
the show, then email me off line and I'll send you what I have.
I supplied Europa with drawings on modifying the flap push rod to
clear the spars as that is a real problem on the mono. Trigear is a
piece of cake. Keep the spars thin and it will work.
The extra 100 pounds the glider wing adds can make the plane a
single seat only aircraft unless you built light. It does move right
along if you go really high, but below 10,000 MSL it is basically an
economical 120 knot bird. You can really stretch the range with the
long wings.
Once the health becomes a concern, it is also quite nice to fly as a
glider with no medical.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
> From: deford.dave@gmail.com<mailto:deford.dave@gmail.com>
> To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Motorglider wings
> Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 06:03:17 -0800
>
<deford.dave@gmail.com<mailto:deford.dave@gmail.com>>
>
> Ron,
>
> We did switch back and forth between short and long wings,
accumulating 90
> hours on the long wings, before we heard about the Mod 78
structural
> problems and quit using them.
>
> The long wings would not fit into the fuselage of N135TD with the
taller
> spar tangs of Mod 78. Building according to the current
instructions 15
> years ago (modified shortly thereafter), our tank is set low
enough that the
> "shelf" at the top front interfered with the short wing spar
tangs. I
> heated the tank locally to deform it enough to pass the starboard
tang, and
> then had to do it again for the slightly taller long wing spars.
We would
> have to cut open the cockpit module and replace the tank in order
to gain
> enough clearance for the modified spars, which we are not prepared
to do.
> Since the long wings are of no use to us, we would be happy to
sell them at
> just about any price to someone who could use them (after applying
Mod 78,
> of course).
>
> Dave DeFord
> N135TD
>
> > It sounds like you switch back and forth between short and long
wings
> > on your XS Mono.
> >
> > Did you do Mod 78? If so how did you get your flap push-rod to
clear
> > post mod 78 spars, airbrake cable and pitch cross tube?
> >
>
>========================
>
>
>
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
//forums.matronics.com
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3D
ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Motorglider wings |
Alan,
I'll get back with you off line. Had a go at the cancer center and
clients in the shop which has tied me up. I have a bit of time to go in
and see if I have some info. / photo's.
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: alan.twigg775@gmail.com<mailto:alan.twigg775@gmail.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Motorglider wings
Bud, details of post Mod 78 Spar cup(s) would be most welcome. Wing
root fittings bonded on yesterday, I removed the aileron cranks as I
need to trim them and have my countersunk bolts ready as Dave Anderson
and you describe. Next job after removing wings and drilling + bolting
the fittings is to countersink the Aileron cranks. Any advice on doing
this in sittu would be welcomed . Regards
Alan Twigg
Sent from my iPhone
On 10 Feb 2014, at 01:23, Bud Yerly
<budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@msn.com>> wrote:
Just a note on sink rates in 419PL:
From my 1000 miles in the MG (copies in Europa Flyer or my website
www.customflightcreations.com<http://www.customflightcreations.com/>
accessories and tips look under techniques).
Sink Rates observed: Engine off, prop feathered from one test
flight:
90 Kts 400fpm
80Kts 300fpm
70 Kts 300 fpm
65 Kts 250 fpm
55 Kts 350 fpm trimmed nearly full aft.
Since Mod 78 makes the spar the same height from root spar to the
tip of the spar, it should not be a major problem normally. Careful
construction only thickens the spar about 1/16 of an inch. I am sorry
Dave, that your tank was put in too low. If the interior is not hard to
remove, consider moving the tank up. Yes its a mess but in a week it
could be done. I know it is easy for me to say, as one mistake and the
cost of a new tank gets figured in makes the job a real knuckle biter.
I do not do tech support for Europa any longer, but if you come to
Sun 'n Fun (Site 33 this year) you can look over what we have done to
ensure the Mod 78 spar clears controls, includes a spar cup/support for
rigging ease, and I'll show how to remove the crosslink bolts and add
countersunk screws which preserves all the structure. If you can't make
the show, then email me off line and I'll send you what I have.
I supplied Europa with drawings on modifying the flap push rod to
clear the spars as that is a real problem on the mono. Trigear is a
piece of cake. Keep the spars thin and it will work.
The extra 100 pounds the glider wing adds can make the plane a
single seat only aircraft unless you built light. It does move right
along if you go really high, but below 10,000 MSL it is basically an
economical 120 knot bird. You can really stretch the range with the
long wings.
Once the health becomes a concern, it is also quite nice to fly as a
glider with no medical.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
> From: deford.dave@gmail.com<mailto:deford.dave@gmail.com>
> To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Motorglider wings
> Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 06:03:17 -0800
>
<deford.dave@gmail.com<mailto:deford.dave@gmail.com>>
>
> Ron,
>
> We did switch back and forth between short and long wings,
accumulating 90
> hours on the long wings, before we heard about the Mod 78
structural
> problems and quit using them.
>
> The long wings would not fit into the fuselage of N135TD with the
taller
> spar tangs of Mod 78. Building according to the current
instructions 15
> years ago (modified shortly thereafter), our tank is set low
enough that the
> "shelf" at the top front interfered with the short wing spar
tangs. I
> heated the tank locally to deform it enough to pass the starboard
tang, and
> then had to do it again for the slightly taller long wing spars.
We would
> have to cut open the cockpit module and replace the tank in order
to gain
> enough clearance for the modified spars, which we are not prepared
to do.
> Since the long wings are of no use to us, we would be happy to
sell them at
> just about any price to someone who could use them (after applying
Mod 78,
> of course).
>
> Dave DeFord
> N135TD
>
> > It sounds like you switch back and forth between short and long
wings
> > on your XS Mono.
> >
> > Did you do Mod 78? If so how did you get your flap push-rod to
clear
> > post mod 78 spars, airbrake cable and pitch cross tube?
> >
>
>========================
>
>
>
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
//forums.matronics.com
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3D
ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Battery Condition Indicator |
Gidday,
My battery charger, a CTEK XS800 trickle charger, has a wide range of accessories,
including a panel mounted display that simply flashes either a Green, Orange,
or Red LED, at a frequency of about 1 flash every 1-2 seconds. I am thinking
I might put it on the panel immediately in front of me, and in a way it will
be a warning indicator. If I can pull it apart I might be able to tamper with
it and remove the Green LED, that way it can be a straight warning light. Here
is the link for what might be a simple addition to an uncomplicated panel,
for someone who has to actively monitor battery condition, but who forgets.
http://www.ctek.com/au/en/chargers/Comfort%20Indicator%20Panel%20M8%203%2c3m
It comes in a 1.5 m and 3.3 m length, which sounds perfect depending on where you
put or have placed your battery.
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Aussie.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Condition Indicator |
Tony,
Sounds like a good idea. Might do it myself.
I had a rectifier fail in flight and to be able to check my battery charge I have
to use the electronic EFIS which went dead on me due to no power. So a separate
independent system like the charge indicator would be perfect. Either that
or an amp meter.
No need to take the green LED out. Reassurance that all is OK.
Where did you get the Charger? Auto shops?
787-900 Dreamliner Course in April. First Line Captain, so it will be the blind
leading the blind!
You still on the 747-400?
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
Ph 64 3 3515166
Mob 0210640221
> On 16/02/2014, at 12:28 pm, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Gidday,
> My battery charger, a CTEK XS800 trickle charger, has a wide range of accessories,
including a panel mounted display that simply flashes either a Green, Orange,
or Red LED, at a frequency of about 1 flash every 1-2 seconds. I am thinking
I might put it on the panel immediately in front of me, and in a way it will
be a warning indicator. If I can pull it apart I might be able to tamper with
it and remove the Green LED, that way it can be a straight warning light.
Here is the link for what might be a simple addition to an uncomplicated panel,
for someone who has to actively monitor battery condition, but who forgets.
> http://www.ctek.com/au/en/chargers/Comfort%20Indicator%20Panel%20M8%203%2c3m
>
> It comes in a 1.5 m and 3.3 m length, which sounds perfect depending on where
you put or have placed your battery.
>
> Tony Renshaw
> Sydney Aussie.
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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|
Australian Classic Europa Mono kit 181 reaches 1000hrs operation.
First flew Aug 1998.
Still satisfied, thanks to Ivan Shaw & crew.
Regards to all,
John Baker.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=418779#418779
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