Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:30 AM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (Alan Burrill)
2. 01:10 AM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (Kingsley Hurst)
3. 03:16 AM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
4. 04:04 AM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (David Joyce)
5. 07:41 AM - Re: Hi Top??? Beware! Get the wing incidence right! (jglazener)
6. 08:36 AM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (Alan Burrill)
7. 03:30 PM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk)
8. 03:44 PM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (Bob Harrison)
9. 03:53 PM - Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot (Rob Housman)
10. 04:09 PM - Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot (rparigoris)
11. 04:12 PM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (rparigoris)
12. 05:01 PM - Re: Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot (Rob Housman)
13. 05:33 PM - Re: Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot (Rob Housman)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: where to put OAT sensor? |
In the air duct well forward of the radiators
Alan
On 23 Feb 2014, at 02:55, Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com> wrote:
>
> Rowland,
>
> I used a small plastic P clip to connect it to the underside of the CD7 (CBM-XS
914 Installation Manual, page 4-6) with the wiring passing through the same
grommet as the Wastegate Cable.
>
> I will be working on the Europa tomorrow. With any luck Ill remember to take
a picture for you.
>
> Blue skies & tailwinds,
> Bob Borger
> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).
> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
> Cel: 817-992-1117
> rlborger@mac.com
>
>
> On Feb 22, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature (OAT) sensor. Obviously
it doesn't want to be in direct sunlight (although PA28s seem to think that's
OK), and not anywhere on the belly downstream of the exhaust. Does anyone have
a good suggestion for it? It's tiny, less than thumbnail size, so doesn't need
much room, and the wires back to the panel can be as long as needed.
>
> in friendship
>
> Rowland
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: where to put OAT sensor? |
> I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature (OAT) sensor.
Rowland,
How about inside an airvent? Cessna have had them there for years.
Regards
Kingsley
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: where to put OAT sensor? |
Makes sense Kingsley,=0Abtw when are you coming to UK? You won't forget whe
re we are will you? (even if you did camp indoors{{!;-)=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan@w
estnet.com.au>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 23 February
2014, 9:09=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: where to put OAT sensor?=0A =0A=0A-
u>=0A=0A> I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature (OAT) senso
r.=0A=0ARowland,=0A=0AHow about inside an airvent?- Cessna have had them
- - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: where to put OAT sensor? |
Alan & rowland, problem with anywhere subject to ram air
pressurization is that it will give an appreciably higher
temp than true OAT.(Boyle & his law). I have an airbox
temp sensor in my air plenum and also an OAT sensor in the
wing root just in front of the flap control slot and the
two give significantly different temps once the plane is
flying, if I remember rightly by something like 8C.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 08:31:51 +0000
Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk> wrote:
><alanb@dpy01.co.uk>
>
> In the air duct well forward of the radiators
>
> Alan
> On 23 Feb 2014, at 02:55, Robert Borger
><rlborger@mac.com> wrote:
>
>><rlborger@mac.com>
>>
>> Rowland,
>>
>> I used a small plastic P clip to connect it to the
>>underside of the CD7 (CBM-XS 914 Installation Manual,
>>page 4-6) with the wiring passing through the same
>>grommet as the Wastegate Cable.
>>
>> I will be working on the Europa tomorrow. With any luck
>>Ill remember to take a picture for you.
>>
>> Blue skies & tailwinds,
>> Bob Borger
>> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).
>> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320
>>EXP
>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
>> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
>> Cel: 817-992-1117
>> rlborger@mac.com
>>
>>
>> On Feb 22, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Rowland Carson
>><rowlandcarson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>><rowlandcarson@gmail.com>
>>
>> I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature
>>(OAT) sensor. Obviously it doesn't want to be in direct
>>sunlight (although PA28s seem to think that's OK), and
>>not anywhere on the belly downstream of the exhaust. Does
>>anyone have a good suggestion for it? It's tiny, less
>>than thumbnail size, so doesn't need much room, and the
>>wires back to the panel can be as long as needed.
>>
>> in friendship
>>
>> Rowland
>>
>> | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w'
>>...
>> | <rowlandcarson@gmail.com>
>> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
>> | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland
>>Carson
>> | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>Un/Subscription,
>Forums!
>Admin.
>
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Hi Top??? Beware! Get the wing incidence right! |
Bit difficult to follow because it is a string of emails. From Ian Rickard I got
the information that for for wing incidence purposes the back of the cockpit
module should be used as reference.
--------
Jeroen
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419178#419178
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: where to put OAT sensor? |
Mine's in the air duct before the radiators.
Not sure if there is as much pressurisation as in the carb air intake.
If the airfield ever dries out I'll be in a position of being able to get off the
ground and find out:-(
Alan
Sent from my iPhone
> On 23 Feb 2014, at 12:04, "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> Alan & rowland, problem with anywhere subject to ram air pressurization is that
it will give an appreciably higher temp than true OAT.(Boyle & his law). I
have an airbox temp sensor in my air plenum and also an OAT sensor in the wing
root just in front of the flap control slot and the two give significantly different
temps once the plane is flying, if I remember rightly by something like
8C. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>
> On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 08:31:51 +0000
> Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk> wrote:
>> In the air duct well forward of the radiators
>> Alan
>>> On 23 Feb 2014, at 02:55, Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com> wrote:
>>> Rowland,
>>> I used a small plastic P clip to connect it to the underside of the CD7 (CBM-XS
914 Installation Manual, page 4-6) with the wiring passing through the same
grommet as the Wastegate Cable.
>>> I will be working on the Europa tomorrow. With any luck Ill remember to take
a picture for you.
>>> Blue skies & tailwinds,
>>> Bob Borger
>>> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).
>>> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
>>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
>>> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
>>> Cel: 817-992-1117
>>> rlborger@mac.com
>>> On Feb 22, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature (OAT) sensor. Obviously
it doesn't want to be in direct sunlight (although PA28s seem to think that's
OK), and not anywhere on the belly downstream of the exhaust. Does anyone have
a good suggestion for it? It's tiny, less than thumbnail size, so doesn't
need much room, and the wires back to the panel can be as long as needed.
>>> in friendship
>>> Rowland
>>> | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
>>> | <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
>>> | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
>>> | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson
>> Un/Subscription,
>> Forums!
>> Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: where to put OAT sensor? |
If I remember correctly, isn't 'DJ powered by a 914? If so, the plenum
will be fed with heat sinked (sunk?) air fresh from a blisteringly hot
turbo. Once Mr. Boyle has added his two cents, I'm surprised that the
difference between plenum and OAT is only 8c!
Nigel
On 23/02/2014 12:04, David Joyce wrote:
> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
>
> Alan & rowland, problem with anywhere subject to ram air
> pressurization is that it will give an appreciably higher temp than
> true OAT.(Boyle & his law). I have an airbox temp sensor in my air
> plenum and also an OAT sensor in the wing root just in front of the
> flap control slot and the two give significantly different temps once
> the plane is flying, if I remember rightly by something like 8C.
> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>
Message 8
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Subject: | where to put OAT sensor? |
Unless it has an intercooler which it hasn't !
Bob H G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk
Sent: 23 February 2014 23:30
Subject: Re: Europa-List: where to put OAT sensor?
--> <nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk>
If I remember correctly, isn't 'DJ powered by a 914? If so, the plenum will
be fed with heat sinked (sunk?) air fresh from a blisteringly hot turbo.
Once Mr. Boyle has added his two cents, I'm surprised that the difference
between plenum and OAT is only 8c!
Nigel
On 23/02/2014 12:04, David Joyce wrote:
> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
>
> Alan & rowland, problem with anywhere subject to ram air
> pressurization is that it will give an appreciably higher temp than
> true OAT.(Boyle & his law). I have an airbox temp sensor in my air
> plenum and also an OAT sensor in the wing root just in front of the
> flap control slot and the two give significantly different temps once
> the plane is flying, if I remember rightly by something like 8C.
> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot |
Assuming that I am not the only one foolish enough to attempt a retro-fit of
Mod 76 (Dynon) to a completed airframe I would appreciate any help from
others who have done so.
I am currently at an impasse. Removal of CS10 and replacing it with CS10/2
was tedious but relatively straightforward to complete, although the Europa
Factory instructions manage to overlook a few essential points. I am stymied
by my inability to get the nut on the bolt that attaches the rod end to the
horn on CS10/2. With perseverance I managed to get the bolt through the
horn on CS10/2 and the rod end, but my not very large hands cannot do both:
hold the MS31042-3 nut and rotate it after I get it near the threaded end of
the AN3-7A bolt. So far I have failed even to get the nut aligned so the
bolt could be turned into the nut. At this point I am considering cutting
another access hole in the bottom of the fuselage but only as a last resort
would I start cutting.
Suggestions?
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics in progress
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot |
Hi Rob
I don't know exactly what you are up against, but some things I use to start difficult
nuts:
Grease on finger to hold, them
Contact cement on finger to hold them
Use magnets, all sorts of possibilities like just holding the magnet, or magnet
on a stick or wire or even on a wrench
Use JB KWIK weld or rapid epoxy to glue nut to piece of something, this is only
temporary and you pull it off once started, like thin metal or wire or anything
that makes sense
Can you glue the nut to whatever it lives on first? Then use Redux or JB
Can you permanently install a nut? Nut plate? Tack welded nut to where it lives?
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419201#419201
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: where to put OAT sensor? |
Hi Group
I put mine between the port stabilator and fuse:
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=78342
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419202#419202
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot |
Thanks Ron; all good suggestions but unfortunately none is suitable. See
the attached photo and you'll understand why. The perspective is from the
starboard side looking through the opening for the spar. The stick is full
down elevator and anything much less than full makes it impossible even to
see the offending bolt.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics in progress
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigoris
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:09 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot
--> <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hi Rob
I don't know exactly what you are up against, but some things I use to start
difficult nuts:
Grease on finger to hold, them
Contact cement on finger to hold them
Use magnets, all sorts of possibilities like just holding the magnet, or
magnet on a stick or wire or even on a wrench Use JB KWIK weld or rapid
epoxy to glue nut to piece of something, this is only temporary and you pull
it off once started, like thin metal or wire or anything that makes sense
Can you glue the nut to whatever it lives on first? Then use Redux or JB Can
you permanently install a nut? Nut plate? Tack welded nut to where it lives?
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419201#419201
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot |
OOPS, that's from the PORT side.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics in progress
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot
Thanks Ron; all good suggestions but unfortunately none is suitable. See
the attached photo and you'll understand why. The perspective is from the
starboard side looking through the opening for the spar. The stick is full
down elevator and anything much less than full makes it impossible even to
see the offending bolt.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, California
Europa XS
Rotax 914
S/N A070
Airframe complete
Avionics in progress
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigoris
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:09 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot
--> <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hi Rob
I don't know exactly what you are up against, but some things I use to start
difficult nuts:
Grease on finger to hold, them
Contact cement on finger to hold them
Use magnets, all sorts of possibilities like just holding the magnet, or
magnet on a stick or wire or even on a wrench Use JB KWIK weld or rapid
epoxy to glue nut to piece of something, this is only temporary and you pull
it off once started, like thin metal or wire or anything that makes sense
Can you glue the nut to whatever it lives on first? Then use Redux or JB Can
you permanently install a nut? Nut plate? Tack welded nut to where it lives?
Ron Parigoris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419201#419201
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