---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/23/14: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:30 AM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (Alan Burrill) 2. 01:10 AM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (Kingsley Hurst) 3. 03:16 AM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (GRAHAM SINGLETON) 4. 04:04 AM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (David Joyce) 5. 07:41 AM - Re: Hi Top??? Beware! Get the wing incidence right! (jglazener) 6. 08:36 AM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (Alan Burrill) 7. 03:30 PM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk) 8. 03:44 PM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (Bob Harrison) 9. 03:53 PM - Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot (Rob Housman) 10. 04:09 PM - Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot (rparigoris) 11. 04:12 PM - Re: where to put OAT sensor? (rparigoris) 12. 05:01 PM - Re: Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot (Rob Housman) 13. 05:33 PM - Re: Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot (Rob Housman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:30:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: where to put OAT sensor? From: Alan Burrill In the air duct well forward of the radiators Alan On 23 Feb 2014, at 02:55, Robert Borger wrote: > > Rowland, > > I used a small plastic P clip to connect it to the underside of the CD7 (CBM-XS 914 Installation Manual, page 4-6) with the wiring passing through the same grommet as the Wastegate Cable. > > I will be working on the Europa tomorrow. With any luck Ill remember to take a picture for you. > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger > Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs). > Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208-5331 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > rlborger@mac.com > > > On Feb 22, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Rowland Carson wrote: > > > I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature (OAT) sensor. Obviously it doesn't want to be in direct sunlight (although PA28s seem to think that's OK), and not anywhere on the belly downstream of the exhaust. Does anyone have a good suggestion for it? It's tiny, less than thumbnail size, so doesn't need much room, and the wires back to the panel can be as long as needed. > > in friendship > > Rowland > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:10:57 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Re: Europa-List: where to put OAT sensor? > I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature (OAT) sensor. Rowland, How about inside an airvent? Cessna have had them there for years. Regards Kingsley ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:16:09 AM PST US From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Subject: Re: Europa-List: where to put OAT sensor? Makes sense Kingsley,=0Abtw when are you coming to UK? You won't forget whe re we are will you? (even if you did camp indoors{{!;-)=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Kingsley Hurst =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 23 February 2014, 9:09=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: where to put OAT sensor?=0A =0A=0A- u>=0A=0A> I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature (OAT) senso r.=0A=0ARowland,=0A=0AHow about inside an airvent?- Cessna have had them - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ==== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:53 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: where to put OAT sensor? Alan & rowland, problem with anywhere subject to ram air pressurization is that it will give an appreciably higher temp than true OAT.(Boyle & his law). I have an airbox temp sensor in my air plenum and also an OAT sensor in the wing root just in front of the flap control slot and the two give significantly different temps once the plane is flying, if I remember rightly by something like 8C. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 08:31:51 +0000 Alan Burrill wrote: > > > In the air duct well forward of the radiators > > Alan > On 23 Feb 2014, at 02:55, Robert Borger > wrote: > >> >> >> Rowland, >> >> I used a small plastic P clip to connect it to the >>underside of the CD7 (CBM-XS 914 Installation Manual, >>page 4-6) with the wiring passing through the same >>grommet as the Wastegate Cable. >> >> I will be working on the Europa tomorrow. With any luck >>Ill remember to take a picture for you. >> >> Blue skies & tailwinds, >> Bob Borger >> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs). >> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 >>EXP >> 3705 Lynchburg Dr. >> Corinth, TX 76208-5331 >> Cel: 817-992-1117 >> rlborger@mac.com >> >> >> On Feb 22, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Rowland Carson >> wrote: >> >> >> >> I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature >>(OAT) sensor. Obviously it doesn't want to be in direct >>sunlight (although PA28s seem to think that's OK), and >>not anywhere on the belly downstream of the exhaust. Does >>anyone have a good suggestion for it? It's tiny, less >>than thumbnail size, so doesn't need much room, and the >>wires back to the panel can be as long as needed. >> >> in friendship >> >> Rowland >> >> | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' >>... >> | >> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk >> | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland >>Carson >> | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson >> >> >> >> >> > > > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:03 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Hi Top??? Beware! Get the wing incidence right! From: "jglazener" Bit difficult to follow because it is a string of emails. From Ian Rickard I got the information that for for wing incidence purposes the back of the cockpit module should be used as reference. -------- Jeroen http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419178#419178 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: where to put OAT sensor? From: Alan Burrill Mine's in the air duct before the radiators. Not sure if there is as much pressurisation as in the carb air intake. If the airfield ever dries out I'll be in a position of being able to get off the ground and find out:-( Alan Sent from my iPhone > On 23 Feb 2014, at 12:04, "David Joyce" wrote: > > > > Alan & rowland, problem with anywhere subject to ram air pressurization is that it will give an appreciably higher temp than true OAT.(Boyle & his law). I have an airbox temp sensor in my air plenum and also an OAT sensor in the wing root just in front of the flap control slot and the two give significantly different temps once the plane is flying, if I remember rightly by something like 8C. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ > > On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 08:31:51 +0000 > Alan Burrill wrote: >> In the air duct well forward of the radiators >> Alan >>> On 23 Feb 2014, at 02:55, Robert Borger wrote: >>> Rowland, >>> I used a small plastic P clip to connect it to the underside of the CD7 (CBM-XS 914 Installation Manual, page 4-6) with the wiring passing through the same grommet as the Wastegate Cable. >>> I will be working on the Europa tomorrow. With any luck Ill remember to take a picture for you. >>> Blue skies & tailwinds, >>> Bob Borger >>> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs). >>> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP >>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr. >>> Corinth, TX 76208-5331 >>> Cel: 817-992-1117 >>> rlborger@mac.com >>> On Feb 22, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Rowland Carson wrote: >>> I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature (OAT) sensor. Obviously it doesn't want to be in direct sunlight (although PA28s seem to think that's OK), and not anywhere on the belly downstream of the exhaust. Does anyone have a good suggestion for it? It's tiny, less than thumbnail size, so doesn't need much room, and the wires back to the panel can be as long as needed. >>> in friendship >>> Rowland >>> | Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... >>> | http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk >>> | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson >>> | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson >> Un/Subscription, >> Forums! >> Admin. > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:34 PM PST US From: "nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk" Subject: Re: Europa-List: where to put OAT sensor? If I remember correctly, isn't 'DJ powered by a 914? If so, the plenum will be fed with heat sinked (sunk?) air fresh from a blisteringly hot turbo. Once Mr. Boyle has added his two cents, I'm surprised that the difference between plenum and OAT is only 8c! Nigel On 23/02/2014 12:04, David Joyce wrote: > > > > Alan & rowland, problem with anywhere subject to ram air > pressurization is that it will give an appreciably higher temp than > true OAT.(Boyle & his law). I have an airbox temp sensor in my air > plenum and also an OAT sensor in the wing root just in front of the > flap control slot and the two give significantly different temps once > the plane is flying, if I remember rightly by something like 8C. > Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:34 PM PST US From: "Bob Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: where to put OAT sensor? Unless it has an intercooler which it hasn't ! Bob H G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel_graham@m-tecque.co.uk Sent: 23 February 2014 23:30 Subject: Re: Europa-List: where to put OAT sensor? --> If I remember correctly, isn't 'DJ powered by a 914? If so, the plenum will be fed with heat sinked (sunk?) air fresh from a blisteringly hot turbo. Once Mr. Boyle has added his two cents, I'm surprised that the difference between plenum and OAT is only 8c! Nigel On 23/02/2014 12:04, David Joyce wrote: > > > > Alan & rowland, problem with anywhere subject to ram air > pressurization is that it will give an appreciably higher temp than > true OAT.(Boyle & his law). I have an airbox temp sensor in my air > plenum and also an OAT sensor in the wing root just in front of the > flap control slot and the two give significantly different temps once > the plane is flying, if I remember rightly by something like 8C. > Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:53:07 PM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: Europa-List: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot Assuming that I am not the only one foolish enough to attempt a retro-fit of Mod 76 (Dynon) to a completed airframe I would appreciate any help from others who have done so. I am currently at an impasse. Removal of CS10 and replacing it with CS10/2 was tedious but relatively straightforward to complete, although the Europa Factory instructions manage to overlook a few essential points. I am stymied by my inability to get the nut on the bolt that attaches the rod end to the horn on CS10/2. With perseverance I managed to get the bolt through the horn on CS10/2 and the rod end, but my not very large hands cannot do both: hold the MS31042-3 nut and rotate it after I get it near the threaded end of the AN3-7A bolt. So far I have failed even to get the nut aligned so the bolt could be turned into the nut. At this point I am considering cutting another access hole in the bottom of the fuselage but only as a last resort would I start cutting. Suggestions? Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Rotax 914 S/N A070 Airframe complete Avionics in progress ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:06 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot From: "rparigoris" Hi Rob I don't know exactly what you are up against, but some things I use to start difficult nuts: Grease on finger to hold, them Contact cement on finger to hold them Use magnets, all sorts of possibilities like just holding the magnet, or magnet on a stick or wire or even on a wrench Use JB KWIK weld or rapid epoxy to glue nut to piece of something, this is only temporary and you pull it off once started, like thin metal or wire or anything that makes sense Can you glue the nut to whatever it lives on first? Then use Redux or JB Can you permanently install a nut? Nut plate? Tack welded nut to where it lives? Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419201#419201 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:03 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: where to put OAT sensor? From: "rparigoris" Hi Group I put mine between the port stabilator and fuse: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=78342 Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419202#419202 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:31 PM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot Thanks Ron; all good suggestions but unfortunately none is suitable. See the attached photo and you'll understand why. The perspective is from the starboard side looking through the opening for the spar. The stick is full down elevator and anything much less than full makes it impossible even to see the offending bolt. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Rotax 914 S/N A070 Airframe complete Avionics in progress -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigoris Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:09 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot --> Hi Rob I don't know exactly what you are up against, but some things I use to start difficult nuts: Grease on finger to hold, them Contact cement on finger to hold them Use magnets, all sorts of possibilities like just holding the magnet, or magnet on a stick or wire or even on a wrench Use JB KWIK weld or rapid epoxy to glue nut to piece of something, this is only temporary and you pull it off once started, like thin metal or wire or anything that makes sense Can you glue the nut to whatever it lives on first? Then use Redux or JB Can you permanently install a nut? Nut plate? Tack welded nut to where it lives? Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419201#419201 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:40 PM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot OOPS, that's from the PORT side. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Rotax 914 S/N A070 Airframe complete Avionics in progress -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:59 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot Thanks Ron; all good suggestions but unfortunately none is suitable. See the attached photo and you'll understand why. The perspective is from the starboard side looking through the opening for the spar. The stick is full down elevator and anything much less than full makes it impossible even to see the offending bolt. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, California Europa XS Rotax 914 S/N A070 Airframe complete Avionics in progress -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigoris Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:09 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mod 76 - Altitude Hold Autopilot --> Hi Rob I don't know exactly what you are up against, but some things I use to start difficult nuts: Grease on finger to hold, them Contact cement on finger to hold them Use magnets, all sorts of possibilities like just holding the magnet, or magnet on a stick or wire or even on a wrench Use JB KWIK weld or rapid epoxy to glue nut to piece of something, this is only temporary and you pull it off once started, like thin metal or wire or anything that makes sense Can you glue the nut to whatever it lives on first? Then use Redux or JB Can you permanently install a nut? Nut plate? Tack welded nut to where it lives? Ron Parigoris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419201#419201 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.