Europa-List Digest Archive

Sun 03/02/14


Total Messages Posted: 16



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:15 AM - Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
     2. 02:26 AM - Re: New cockpit panel (Roland)
     3. 03:06 AM - Au revior (gtagr)
     4. 03:56 AM - Re: Au revior (GRAHAM SINGLETON)
     5. 04:12 AM - Re: Au revior (David Joyce)
     6. 04:24 AM - Re: New cockpit panel (spcialeffects)
     7. 08:34 AM - Re: Potential problem with second Nicopress and dull SS control,cable question (richard)
     8. 08:55 AM - Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable (Mike Baker)
     9. 08:56 AM - Re: Au revior (richard)
    10. 09:48 AM - Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable (David Joyce)
    11. 11:06 AM - Re: New cockpit panel (Roland)
    12. 11:21 AM - Re: New cockpit panel (spcialeffects)
    13. 12:28 PM - Re: Potential problem with second Nicopress and dull SS control,cable question (Tony Renshaw)
    14. 06:31 PM - Rudder Pedal Step Stretching (Tony Renshaw)
    15. 06:44 PM - Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable (Michel AUVRAY)
    16. 11:03 PM - Re: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching (spcialeffects)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:15:37 AM PST US
    From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable
    Yes, stainless was developed for yachts, sea water contamination resistant. There isn't much bending in the Europa so no worries about fatigue.=0AMust be the multi strand stuff though, 7X19 springs to mind but anyway it's fin e wire strands for flexibility.=0AGraham=0A=0AAlso be sure you use the righ t crimps, plated I think, not plain copper. Get a second opinion, I not as young as I once was!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A F rom: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0ATo: GRAHAM SINGLETON <graham singleton@btinternet.com>; europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 2 Mar ch 2014, 6:04=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable=0A =0A=0A=0AHi Graham,=0AWish I knew if it was what was supplied by Europa. I=99ve had the kit too long to know, things have been moved a round, and I don=99t recall the Europa stuff ever being labelled.=C2 -=0AMaybe someone else might be able to clarify. Worst part is, it looks old even though it mightn=99t be. It reminds me of a Hills Hoist outs ide clothes line cable, but I think that is more of an Aussie thing. I actu ally don=99t have enough Nicopress sleeves now so I=99ll need m ore of those anyway, so I can get some more pretty stuff ;-)=0AYou normally use Stainless Steel cable by choice don=99t you??=0ATR=0A=0A=0A=0A =0AOn 2 Mar 2014, at 10:18 am, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet .com> wrote:=0A=0ATony=0A>I'd say go ahead with the galvanised steel cable. It should be fine in Oz, so long as you don't go=C2-=0A>ocean sailing wi th it!=0A>Graham=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>_______________________________ _=0A>From:=C2-Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0A>To:=C2-europa- list@matronics.com=C2-=0A>Sent:=C2-Saturday, 1 March 2014, 22:49=0A>Sub ject:=C2-Europa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>Gidday,=0A>I have gone through my fair share of cable, and conseque ntly I have bits everywhere. I have a roll of cable which appears to be gal vanised, or really dull Stainless Steel, which I believe doesn=99t ha ppen. Why have nice shiny Stainless, if it stains. So, the best advice I ha ve to figure out what is what is to use a magnet. The unknown roll of dull cable I have is extremely attractive to the magnet, and the Stainless is on ly slightly, but still is drawn towards the magnet on a really long suspend ed run, like the length in the aft fuselage, towards the magnet when it is mm away, but it still attracts it. So, this other roll I can only imagine m ight have been that supplied by Europa, and I wouldn=99t know because this roll has no product code or numbers on it.=C2-=0A>My question, whil st I=99d prefer to use Stainless just because it doesn=99t look like it has been in the aircraft for a million years, however the gal cabl e (or whatever it is) I am told is more durable especially in terms of bend s. This is a conservative approach from gliders where control cabling can h ave acute bends, but we don=99t have that. So, should I resurrect thi s roll of cable out of my waste bin and use it, or should I replace it with Stainless Steel?=0A>Thanks for any advice or help, and I appreciate all th e help I=99ve got with this sofar.=C2-=0A>Regards=0A>Tony=C2-Rens hawhttp://forums.matronics.com=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>href="http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europ a-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ ====================


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:26:42 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: New cockpit panel
    From: "Roland" <schmidtroland@web.de>
    Believe it or not, the project goes on..... BTW: a new set is already been made and ready for shipping :-) Roland PH-ZTI XS Trigear 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419620#419620 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fotos_neu_023_214.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/fotos_neu_029_630.jpg


    Message 3


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    Time: 03:06:55 AM PST US
    Subject: Au revior
    From: "gtagr" <clive.maf@googlemail.com>
    Having just sold my Tri-gear 100hp G-TAGR yesterday (to Paul Norwood at Bournemouth), just to say thanks for the excellent support I've experienced from Europa Club and its members these last few years. The congenial nature of the dialogue, the readiness to help from all its members and the club trips organised by David J have been exceptional - thank you. My plans are to learn to glide and fly tug-planes (if I'm good enough) and possibly build again in a few years time -when the pressures on time are a little reduced. Regards. Clive Sutton Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419621#419621


    Message 4


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    Time: 03:56:48 AM PST US
    From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Au revior
    You could tow gliders with your Europa, if LAA would allow it! First Europa Classic tug plane was Walter Binder's=0AClassic, he was an early builder i n Germany=0AGraham=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: gtagr <clive.maf@googlemail.com>=0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: S unday, 2 March 2014, 11:06=0ASubject: Europa-List: Au revior=0A =0A=0A--> E uropa-List message posted by: "gtagr" <clive.maf@googlemail.com>=0A=0AHavin g just sold my Tri-gear 100hp G-TAGR yesterday (to Paul Norwood at Bournemo uth), just to say thanks for the excellent support I've experienced from Eu ropa Club and its members these last few years. The congenial nature of the dialogue, the readiness to help from all its members and the club trips or ganised by David J have been exceptional - thank you.- My plans are to le arn to glide and fly tug-planes (if I'm good enough) and possibly build aga in in a few years time -when the pressures on time are a little reduced.- Regards.- Clive Sutton=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ah ttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419621#419621=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ==================


    Message 5


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    Time: 04:12:28 AM PST US
    From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
    Subject: Re: Au revior
    Clive, sorry to see you go, but enjoy your next phase of flying. I found both gliding and tugging very satisfying. The tugging in particular surprised me as I had expected it to be a bit repetitive and dull. Not a bit of it, as you will no doubt discover! Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 03:06:26 -0800 "gtagr" <clive.maf@googlemail.com> wrote: ><clive.maf@googlemail.com> > > Having just sold my Tri-gear 100hp G-TAGR yesterday (to >Paul Norwood at Bournemouth), just to say thanks for the >excellent support I've experienced from Europa Club and >its members these last few years. The congenial nature of >the dialogue, the readiness to help from all its members >and the club trips organised by David J have been >exceptional - thank you. My plans are to learn to glide >and fly tug-planes (if I'm good enough) and possibly >build again in a few years time -when the pressures on >time are a little reduced. Regards. Clive Sutton > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419621#419621 > > > > > > > >Un/Subscription, >Forums! >Admin. > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 04:24:53 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: New cockpit panel
    From: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects@aol.com>
    Just a note for UK owners. I was quite interested in fitting a full width panel although this one works out quite expensive so I asked my inspector for his opinion and he said email Andy draper, which I did and his response was that it is a mod, which would need to be applied for and he would need to see crash test data and such, so in conclusion too much trouble and too expensive. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419626#419626


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:34:31 AM PST US
    From: "richard" <rcollings@talktalk.net>
    Subject: Re: Potential problem with second Nicopress and dull SS control,cable
    question Hi Tony The BGA here in England banned the use of stainless steel for rudder cables about 10 years age. I think it was because with age like us it gets a bit brittle but still looks good! As Graham has said the cable run is very straight forward mostly internal, don=99t worry use the stuff supplied by Europa but get plated Nicropress sleeves. Best wishes Richard From: Tony Renshaw Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2014 12:19 AM Subject: Europa-List: Potential problem with second Nicopress and dull SS control,cable question Gidday, So, I've tried using a second incompressible, but am now concerned I have done that correctly. I placed the second one up against the other one, and as they compress, we know they exude outward, even a little bit. I reckon the cable I between the 2 could now be under tension, continually, and possibly quite a lot. Whatever stress it is preloaded is an equivalent weight, which in essence would minimise the stress loading on the cable. I've Lao got cable kicking around that looks more like gal than Stainless Steel, but I know I have only ever bought the right stuff 7x7 3/32" dia control cable. Is there a reason why over time Stainess Steel cable can go dull over time? Tony Renshaw Sent from my iPad On 1 Mar 2014, at 9:52 am, Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz> wrote: Yes I did. The 25mm long tail Richard talks about, instead of using tape I use an additional sleeve. Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t@xtra.co.nz Ph 64 3 3515166 Mob 0210640221 On 1/03/2014, at 11:22 am, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Tim, So did you use two on all the ends, from pedal all the way thru to rudder? TR On 1 Mar 2014, at 8:52, Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz> wrote: Tony, As Richard stated, I used two Nicopress Sleeves for " peace of mind". Good recommendation. Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t@xtra.co.nz Ph 64 3 3515166 Mob 0210640221 On 1/03/2014, at 6:39 am, "richard" <rcollings@talktalk.net> wrote: Hi Tony You must leave an inch long tail after the sleeve and shrink a short length of electric wire sleeving on to that end for protection. Two things you can do also, conduct a proof load test, I don=99t know the loads but Europa may, or you could drop an email to Andy Draper at the LAA engineering dept he would know. The other way of being certain is to build the cables with two Nicopress sleeves on each end. I know its more weight but =9CPiece of mind=9Dis worth a few ounces . Best of luck Richard From: Tony Renshaw Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 10:41 AM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Europa-List: Nicopress Squeezes Using Aviation Approved Squeezer......comments requested . Gidday, I=99ve attached 2 photos of my Nicopress squeezes, and 1 of the jaws of the tool. Any input gratefully received. Regards Tony Renshaw <2014_02_28_Distorted_Nicopress-12.jpeg><2014_02_28_Squeezed_Nicopress_En d-14.jpeg> <2014_02_28_Nicopress_Crimper_Jaws-11.jpeg> No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 02/27/14 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D //forums.matronics.com D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D //forums.matronics.com D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D //forums.matronics.com D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 03/02/14


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:55:40 AM PST US
    From: Mike Baker <galahav@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable
    Mil-DTL-83420 is the general spec that describes the requirements flight co ntrol cables=0A=C2-Composition A - Carbon steel, zinc, or tin over zinc c oated=0Asteel cable is stronger and stiffer than corrosion resistant steel =C2-=0A=C2-=0AMIL-DTL-83420/1 - Wire Rope, Flexible, Type I, Compositio n A.=0A=C2-M83420/1-005 Indicates - Wire Rope, Flexible, Type I, Carbon S teel,=0AConstruction; 7 x 19, Nominal Diameter 5/32=0A=C2-=0AComposition B - Corrosion resistant steel=0AMIL-DTL-83420/2 - Wire Rope, Flexible, Type I, Composition B.=0A=C2-MIL-DTL-781 - Terminal, Wire Rope Swaging, Gener al Specification for.=0A=C2-=0Ause this info to find the spec of cable yo u have=0Athe nicopress is usable on either. best to ck spec on swaging =0A =C2-=0Athe best place I know of for flight control cables is Mcfarlane av iation (USA) =0Aalso a good source for other "stuff"=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A =C2-=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>=0ATo: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europa- list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Sunday, March 2, 2014 4:14 AM=0ASubject: Re: E uropa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable=0A =0A=0A=0AYes, stain less was developed for yachts, sea water contamination resistant. There isn 't much bending in the Europa so no worries about fatigue.=0AMust be the mu lti strand stuff though, 7X19 springs to mind but anyway it's fine wire str ands for flexibility.=0AGraham=0A=0AAlso be sure you use the right crimps, plated I think, not plain copper. Get a second opinion, I not as young as I once was!=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0ATo: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton @btinternet.com>; europa-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, 2 March 2014, 6:04=0ASubject: Re: Europa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable=0A =0A=0A=0AHi Graham,=0AWish I knew if it was what was supplied by Europa. I=99ve had the kit too long to know, things have been moved around, a nd I don=99t recall the Europa stuff ever being labelled.=C2-=0AMay be someone else might be able to clarify. Worst part is, it looks old even though it mightn=99t be. It reminds me of a Hills Hoist outside cloth es line cable, but I think that is more of an Aussie thing. I actually don =99t have enough Nicopress sleeves now so I=99ll need more of t hose anyway, so I can get some more pretty stuff ;-)=0AYou normally use Sta inless Steel cable by choice don=99t you??=0ATR=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 2 Ma r 2014, at 10:18 am, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrot e:=0A=0ATony=0A>I'd say go ahead with the galvanised steel cable. It should be fine in Oz, so long as you don't go=C2-=0A>ocean sailing with it!=0A> Graham=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A>From: =C2-Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0A>To:=C2-europa-list@matro nics.com=C2-=0A>Sent:=C2-Saturday, 1 March 2014, 22:49=0A>Subject:=C2 -Europa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable=0A>=0A>=0A>--> Euro pa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>=0A>=0A>G idday,=0A>I have gone through my fair share of cable, and consequently I ha ve bits everywhere. I have a roll of cable which appears to be galvanised, or really dull Stainless Steel, which I believe doesn=99t happen. Why have nice shiny Stainless, if it stains. So, the best advice I have to fig ure out what is what is to use a magnet. The unknown roll of dull cable I h ave is extremely attractive to the magnet, and the Stainless is only slight ly, but still is drawn towards the magnet on a really long suspended run, l ike the length in=0A the aft fuselage, towards the magnet when it is mm awa y, but it still attracts it. So, this other roll I can only imagine might h ave been that supplied by Europa, and I wouldn=99t know because this roll has no product code or numbers on it.=C2-=0A>My question, whilst I =99d prefer to use Stainless just because it doesn=99t look lik e it has been in the aircraft for a million years, however the gal cable (o r whatever it is) I am told is more durable especially in terms of bends. T his is a conservative approach from gliders where control cabling can have acute bends, but we don=99t have that. So, should I resurrect this ro ll of cable out of my waste bin and use it, or should I replace it with Sta inless Steel?=0A>Thanks for any advice or help, and I appreciate all the he lp I=99ve got with this sofar.=C2-=0A>Regards=0A>Tony=C2-Renshawh ttp://forums.matronics.com=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>href="http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Li st=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahr ef="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contr ibution =0A>=0A =0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http:// ======================= =0A ================


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:56:18 AM PST US
    From: "richard" <rcollings@talktalk.net>
    Subject: Re: Au revior
    Hi Graham Do you have any more info on the Europa classic Tug, as you probably know Euro Fox have sold very well in the UK as glider tugs, we have one, the first one to be cleared by the CAA/BGA. It works very well and gives the Banbury Gliding Club a considerable cost saving on aero tow. A 2000ft tow is about =A314 and 1000ft lob when doing circuit training is half that which put a launch within reach of the cost of a winch launch. I must say I like the idea of the Europa earning its keep. Kind regards Richard From: GRAHAM SINGLETON Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2014 11:56 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Au revior You could tow gliders with your Europa, if LAA would allow it! First Europa Classic tug plane was Walter Binder's Classic, he was an early builder in Germany Graham ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: gtagr <clive.maf@googlemail.com> Sent: Sunday, 2 March 2014, 11:06 Subject: Europa-List: Au revior Having just sold my Tri-gear 100hp G-TAGR yesterday (to Paul Norwood at Bournemouth), just to say thanks for the excellent support I've experienced from Europa Club and its members these last few years. The congenial nature of the dialogue, the readiness to help from all its members and the club trips organised by David J have been exceptional - thank you. My plans are to learn to glide and fly tug-planes (if I'm good enough) and possibly build again in a few years time -when the pressures on time are a little reduced. Regards. Clive Sutton Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419621#419====== ==================http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Eurp; --> No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 03/02/14


    Message 10


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    Time: 09:48:58 AM PST US
    From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
    Subject: Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable
    One tip for those installing rudder cables in a mono is to run them inside the light plastic tubing (used extensively in gliders) through the wheel well. It is virtually friction free and protects them entirely from damp & grit. Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 08:55:07 -0800 (PST) Mike Baker <galahav@yahoo.com> wrote: > Mil-DTL-83420 is the general spec that describes the >requirements flight control cables > Composition A - Carbon steel, zinc, or tin over zinc >coated > steel cable is stronger and stiffer than corrosion >resistant steel > > MIL-DTL-83420/1 - Wire Rope, Flexible, Type I, >Composition A. > M83420/1-005 Indicates - Wire Rope, Flexible, Type I, >Carbon Steel, > Construction; 7 x 19, Nominal Diameter 5/32 > > Composition B - Corrosion resistant steel > MIL-DTL-83420/2 - Wire Rope, Flexible, Type I, >Composition B. > MIL-DTL-781 - Terminal, Wire Rope Swaging, General >Specification for. > > use this info to find the spec of cable you have > the nicopress is usable on either. best to ck spec on >swaging > > the best place I know of for flight control cables is >Mcfarlane aviation (USA) > also a good source for other "stuff" > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> > To: "europa-list@matronics.com" ><europa-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 2, 2014 4:14 AM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel >Control Cable > > > > Yes, stainless was developed for yachts, sea water >contamination resistant. There isn't much bending in the >Europa so no worries about fatigue. > Must be the multi strand stuff though, 7X19 springs to >mind but anyway it's fine wire strands for flexibility. > Graham > > Also be sure you use the right crimps, plated I think, >not plain copper. Get a second opinion, I not as young as >I once was! > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> > To: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>; >europa-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, 2 March 2014, 6:04 > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel >Control Cable > > > > Hi Graham, > Wish I knew if it was what was supplied by Europa. Ive >had the kit too long to know, things have been moved >around, and I dont recall the Europa stuff ever being >labelled. > Maybe someone else might be able to clarify. Worst part >is, it looks old even though it mightnt be. It reminds >me of a Hills Hoist outside clothes line cable, but I >think that is more of an Aussie thing. I actually dont >have enough Nicopress sleeves now so Ill need more of >those anyway, so I can get some more pretty stuff ;-) > You normally use Stainless Steel cable by choice dont >you?? > TR > > > > > On 2 Mar 2014, at 10:18 am, GRAHAM SINGLETON ><grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote: > > Tony >>I'd say go ahead with the galvanised steel cable. It >>should be fine in Oz, so long as you don't go >>ocean sailing with it! >>Graham >> >> >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >>From:Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> >>To:europa-list@matronics.com >>Sent:Saturday, 1 March 2014, 22:49 >>Subject:Europa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel Control >>Cable >> >> >><tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> >> >>Gidday, >>I have gone through my fair share of cable, and >>consequently I have bits everywhere. I have a roll of >>cable which appears to be galvanised, or really dull >>Stainless Steel, which I believe doesnt happen. Why have >>nice shiny Stainless, if it stains. So, the best advice I >>have to figure out what is what is to use a magnet. The >>unknown roll of dull cable I have is extremely attractive >>to the magnet, and the Stainless is only slightly, but >>still is drawn towards the magnet on a really long >>suspended run, like the length in > the aft fuselage, towards the magnet when it is mm away, >but it still attracts it. So, this other roll I can only >imagine might have been that supplied by Europa, and I >wouldnt know because this roll has no product code or >numbers on it. >>My question, whilst Id prefer to use Stainless just >>because it doesnt look like it has been in the aircraft >>for a million years, however the gal cable (or whatever >>it is) I am told is more durable especially in terms of >>bends. This is a conservative approach from gliders where >>control cabling can have acute bends, but we dont have >>that. So, should I resurrect this roll of cable out of my >>waste bin and use it, or should I replace it with >>Stainless Steel? >>Thanks for any advice or help, and I appreciate all the >>help Ive got with this sofar. >>Regards >>TonyRenshawhttp://forums.matronics.com >> >> >> >> >> >>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >http://======================= > ================


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:06:43 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: New cockpit panel
    From: "Roland" <schmidtroland@web.de>
    Hi Frank, I wasn't aware of the fact, that crash test data is needed in the UK for Experimental aircrafts - have there been made any crash tests with the Europa? I thought that only certified aircrafts have to be crash tested. Well, the cockpit design is generally no other than the DA 20 Katana or many Microlight designs (in fact almost all aircraft have full width panels) and I cannot see any differences concerning crash behavior. BTW on the club homepage you can also find a picture of a full width panel, but I don't know, if it belongs to a UK-builder http://www.theeuropaclub.org/for-builders/panel-instruments/. As for the costs, this is only the price I relay for the producer of it (I'm not the producer), only wanted to make this clear :-). Regards Roland PH-ZTI XS Trigear 914 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419647#419647


    Message 12


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    Time: 11:21:38 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: New cockpit panel
    From: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects@aol.com>
    Hi Roland, the cost all in to get it to the uk worked out about 900 which is abit much for a panel. The full width one on the europa club site is from flight creation which is the American dealer/distributor and those Americans can do near enough what ever they like. Here in the UK everything has to go through the LAA which is governed by the CAA and any change to the instructions is classed as a modification, which means lots of paperwork, money and hoops to jump through which just isn't worth it sometimes. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419648#419648


    Message 13


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    Time: 12:28:28 PM PST US
    From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Potential problem with second Nicopress and dull SS control,cable
    question Hi Richard, So yours must be the dull stuff too? I'll check the ACS catalogue again, but I thought that's all they sold, the Stainless Steel stuff. Funny that it's O k in the US, where most of the worlds aviating occurs, but I understand bure aucracy. Thanks for the definitive answer. This stuff I have has been in a 1 5" dia roll since 1996. Do you think that is a concern? Regards Tony Renshaw Sent from my iPad > On 3 Mar 2014, at 3:33 am, "richard" <rcollings@talktalk.net> wrote: > > Hi Tony > The BGA here in England banned the use of stainless steel for rudder cable s about 10 years age. I think it was because with age like us it gets a bit b rittle but still looks good! As Graham has said the cable run is very straig ht forward mostly internal, don=99t worry use the stuff supplied by Eu ropa but get plated Nicropress sleeves. > Best wishes > Richard > > From: Tony Renshaw > Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2014 12:19 AM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Potential problem with second Nicopress and dull SS c ontrol,cable question > > Gidday, > So, I've tried using a second incompressible, but am now concerned I have d one that correctly. I placed the second one up against the other one, and as they compress, we know they exude outward, even a little bit. I reckon the c able I between the 2 could now be under tension, continually, and possibly q uite a lot. Whatever stress it is preloaded is an equivalent weight, which i n essence would minimise the stress loading on the cable. > I've Lao got cable kicking around that looks more like gal than Stainless S teel, but I know I have only ever bought the right stuff 7x7 3/32" dia contr ol cable. Is there a reason why over time Stainess Steel cable can go dull o ver time? > Tony Renshaw > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 1 Mar 2014, at 9:52 am, Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz> wrote: >> >> Yes I did. The 25mm long tail Richard talks about, instead of using tape I use an additional sleeve. >> Tim >> >> Tim Ward >> 12 Waiwetu Street >> Fendalton, >> Christchurch, 8052 >> New Zealand. >> >> ward.t@xtra.co.nz >> >> Ph 64 3 3515166 >> Mob 0210640221 >> >> >>> On 1/03/2014, at 11:22 am, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> wrote : >>> >>> Hi Tim, >>> So did you use two on all the ends, from pedal all the way thru to rudde r? >>> TR >>> >>>> On 1 Mar 2014, at 8:52, Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz> wrote: >>>> >>>> Tony, >>>> As Richard stated, I used two Nicopress Sleeves for " peace of mind". >>>> Good recommendation. >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> Tim Ward >>>> 12 Waiwetu Street >>>> Fendalton, >>>> Christchurch, 8052 >>>> New Zealand. >>>> >>>> ward.t@xtra.co.nz >>>> >>>> Ph 64 3 3515166 >>>> Mob 0210640221 >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 1/03/2014, at 6:39 am, "richard" <rcollings@talktalk.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Tony You must leave an inch long tail after the sleeve and shrink a short length of electric wire sleeving on to that end for protection. >>>>> Two things you can do also, conduct a proof load test, I don=99t know the loads but Europa may, or you could drop an email to Andy Draper at the LAA engineering dept he would know. The other way of being certain is t o build the cables with two Nicopress sleeves on each end. I know its more w eight but =9CPiece of mind=9Dis worth a few ounces . >>>>> Best of luck >>>>> Richard >>>>> >>>>> From: Tony Renshaw >>>>> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 10:41 AM >>>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com >>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Nicopress Squeezes Using Aviation Approved Squee zer......comments requested . >>>>> >>>>> Gidday, >>>>> I=99ve attached 2 photos of my Nicopress squeezes, and 1 of the j aws of the tool. Any input gratefully received. >>>>> Regards >>>>> Tony Renshaw >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <2014_02_28_Distorted_Nicopress-12.jpeg><2014_02_28_Squeezed_Nicopress _End-14.jpeg> >>>>> >>>>> <2014_02_28_Nicopress_Crimper_Jaws-11.jpeg> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 2014.0.4335 / 02/27/14 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D >>>> a-List"">http://www.matronD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>> //forums.matronics.com >>>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D >>>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/cD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>>> >>> >>> >>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> a-List"">http://www.matronD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> //forums.matronics.com >>> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/cD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> >> >> >> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> //forums.matronics.com >> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronh ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >


    Message 14


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    Time: 06:31:01 PM PST US
    From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
    Subject: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
    Gidday, Ive heard it mentioned that to extend this step back a bit might make things more comfortable. Can I get an input on what dimension is recommended? Ive heard about 75 mm would do it, and I will probably build it into my floor mat mod that I want to do. Thanks. Regards Tony Renshaw Sydney Aussie


    Message 15


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    Time: 06:44:29 PM PST US
    From: Michel AUVRAY <mau11@orange.fr>
    Subject: Re: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable
    Hello all, I am skydiver since 1960, and parachutes builder since 1973, all of the parachutes handles for reserve sport, pilot chutes, ejection seat, military equipments are made since 1960 in stainless steel. The handle assembly are tested in accordance with TSO C23c, d or e. Each component are in Stainless steel, handle, cable and swaging ball, and the cable is conform to MIL W 83420 7x7x19 Dia. 2.38 mm or similar, nominal strength is 420 kg > 927 lbs. These handle are perfect in the time. For example I have parachutes in my collection with the differents harware completely rusty but the handle cable and pins of the same origin have very beautiful aspect, after tested these old handle, they are always conform to the TSO as like brand new, but they have 40 years old. The stainless steel cable 7x7x19 is best beacause this cable is very flexible and more easy to work. I install these cables in 1999 on my monowheel; it is interesting if your aircraft is parked near the coast (sea) or if the place where you park is very wet. Note the effort on these cables on the Europa are very low. Also if it is possible install a shrink thermo molding sleeve over the Nicopress because they are sometimes agressive. I agree with David, my cables run into the teflon sleeve, not in full lenght but to 3 meters inside the cockpit module where there is friction possible to others components for protection. Michel AUVRAY Mono 145 Le 02/03/2014 18:48, David Joyce a crit : > <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> > > One tip for those installing rudder cables in a mono is to run them > inside the light plastic tubing (used extensively in gliders) through > the wheel well. It is virtually friction free and protects them > entirely from damp & grit. > Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ > > > On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 08:55:07 -0800 (PST) > Mike Baker <galahav@yahoo.com> wrote: >> Mil-DTL-83420 is the general spec that describes the requirements >> flight control cables >> Composition A - Carbon steel, zinc, or tin over zinc coated >> steel cable is stronger and stiffer than corrosion resistant steel >> >> MIL-DTL-83420/1 - Wire Rope, Flexible, Type I, Composition A. >> M83420/1-005 Indicates - Wire Rope, Flexible, Type I, Carbon Steel, >> Construction; 7 x 19, Nominal Diameter 5/32 >> >> Composition B - Corrosion resistant steel >> MIL-DTL-83420/2 - Wire Rope, Flexible, Type I, Composition B. >> MIL-DTL-781 - Terminal, Wire Rope Swaging, General Specification for. >> >> use this info to find the spec of cable you have >> the nicopress is usable on either. best to ck spec on swaging >> the best place I know of for flight control cables is Mcfarlane >> aviation (USA) also a good source for other "stuff" >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> >> To: "europa-list@matronics.com" <europa-list@matronics.com> Sent: >> Sunday, March 2, 2014 4:14 AM >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable >> >> >> >> Yes, stainless was developed for yachts, sea water contamination >> resistant. There isn't much bending in the Europa so no worries about >> fatigue. >> Must be the multi strand stuff though, 7X19 springs to mind but >> anyway it's fine wire strands for flexibility. >> Graham >> >> Also be sure you use the right crimps, plated I think, not plain >> copper. Get a second opinion, I not as young as I once was! >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> >> To: GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>; >> europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, 2 March 2014, 6:04 >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable >> >> >> >> Hi Graham, >> Wish I knew if it was what was supplied by Europa. Ive had the kit >> too long to know, things have been moved around, and I dont recall >> the Europa stuff ever being labelled. >> Maybe someone else might be able to clarify. Worst part is, it looks >> old even though it mightnt be. It reminds me of a Hills Hoist >> outside clothes line cable, but I think that is more of an Aussie >> thing. I actually dont have enough Nicopress sleeves now so Ill >> need more of those anyway, so I can get some more pretty stuff ;-) >> You normally use Stainless Steel cable by choice dont you?? >> TR >> >> >> >> >> On 2 Mar 2014, at 10:18 am, GRAHAM SINGLETON >> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> wrote: >> >> Tony >>> I'd say go ahead with the galvanised steel cable. It should be fine >>> in Oz, so long as you don't go >>> ocean sailing with it! >>> Graham >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> >>> To: europa-list@matronics.com >>> Sent: Saturday, 1 March 2014, 22:49 >>> Subject: Europa-List: Europa or Stainless Steel Control Cable >>> >>> >>> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com> >>> >>> Gidday, >>> I have gone through my fair share of cable, and consequently I have >>> bits everywhere. I have a roll of cable which appears to be >>> galvanised, or really dull Stainless Steel, which I believe doesnt >>> happen. Why have nice shiny Stainless, if it stains. So, the best >>> advice I have to figure out what is what is to use a magnet. The >>> unknown roll of dull cable I have is extremely attractive to the >>> magnet, and the Stainless is only slightly, but still is drawn >>> towards the magnet on a really long suspended run, like the length in >> the aft fuselage, towards the magnet when it is mm away, but it still >> attracts it. So, this other roll I can only imagine might have been >> that supplied by Europa, and I wouldnt know because this roll has no >> product code or numbers on it. >>> My question, whilst Id prefer to use Stainless just because it >>> doesnt look like it has been in the aircraft for a million years, >>> however the gal cable (or whatever it is) I am told is more durable >>> especially in terms of bends. This is a conservative approach from >>> gliders where control cabling can have acute bends, but we dont >>> have that. So, should I resurrect this roll of cable out of my waste >>> bin and use it, or should I replace it with Stainless Steel? >>> Thanks for any advice or help, and I appreciate all the help Ive >>> got with this sofar. >>> Regards >>> Tony Renshawhttp://forums.matronics.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >>> >> href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >>> >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> http://======================= ================ > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 11:03:08 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rudder Pedal Step Stretching
    From: "spcialeffects" <spcialeffects@aol.com>
    Hey tony is this what you mean? http://www.theeuropaclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/10665-Bigfoot.pdf It's on the europa club site mod number 10665 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419695#419695




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